The movie tends to espouse Leo's perspective and portray Sofia as the crazy one... but I have to agree with a reviewer who said that Sofia was a lot more affectionate toward Leo than he was towards her. The movie treats Leo's final abandonment as if it were some fluke. Not true.
When Sofia was in pain after giving birth for the first time, he threatened to abandon her to go back into the army (he had fought in the Crimean War)... this inspired the part in "War and Peace" in which Prince Andrei abandons his pregnant wife Lisa to seek glory in battle, leading her to die in childbirth.
At another time, Leo simply packed his bags and left. He had had several children with Sofia by this time. The ex-Psych professor claimed he would do the same thing if I married&had children with him. That he'd simply pack up leave whenever, wherever.
When Sofia was pregnant with her last child, Leo packed his bags and threatened to go to America. He also physically abandoned her when she was about to give birth to her last child, all because they had an argument that morning.
Leo&Sofia's last child, Alexandra, is still alive, hooked up to an oxygen machine in a hospital. She described her mother as "constantly pregnant&tyrannical" and that her mother was a "very sick woman." That's the result of the constant abuse. Alexandra was lamenting how sad her famous father Leo would be about young people leaving religion, abandoning their families... which is EXACTLY WHAT HER FATHER DID. There is a surviving son of Leo&Sofia who's living in destitution in a nursing home in New York. He was once a high roller and gambler in the '60s, hanging out with celebrities like Omar Sharif... and now he lives in poverty.
Since I work in a nursing home, I was reading an article about how people care for friends/family members with Alzheimer's. The authors defined it this way "Love changes." They also say that family members who emotionally distance themselves from those who have Alzheimer's are engaging in emotional self-preservation (sound familiar to anyone here?) It's so you can't take the person's babbling or paranoia personally.
At my nursing home, we once had a patient in late-stage Alzheimer's who babbled nonsense for hours on end. What she said didn't make sense. It didn't mean I hated her, or I was angry at her... it was her disease.
There's a woman with Alzheimer's who's extremely forgetful. She'll forget she's opened bags of cookies and asks for more, even when they're on her walker. I can politely show her that she DOES have cookies to eat. Getting mad at her would be counter-productive.
Sometimes I think my "love" for the ex-Psych professor, while definitely NOT being friendship/romantic/spousal love (thank God!) would be this kind of love. I remember the ex-P once said "Don't take what I say personally." It's not romantic love. As Sam Vaknin has said, if one must love a Narc... love from A DISTANCE. As in NC! Getting involved doesn't help.
Dont worry, I am not going to go back for a next round.
I dont know what I miss, or if this is love, honestly my brain is very tired of rationalizing my feelings. I spent 2 years doing that, and it didnt help, well maybe a little bit, but the emotions are still there.
I know it all, its not him, its my fantasy, its my projection, blahblah, it doesnt help anymore. All I know, I have this strong craving, and I truely loved him, despite all his flaws, or evilness.
I know he never loved me, not at all, his indifference was obvious.
I know it all. And still.
I didnt even try to get a solution here, I just needed to get off my chest.
I am not doing much yet to get better, but I made a decision.
A decision to fullfill my vision of me and a happy life, that I have in my mind ever since I met him.
I didnt like it anymore, cause there was always him in the vision.
But somehow I got to manage it to envision a scenario in which I am calm and happy, without him even, without any men.
And thats what I decided to do now.
I will devide the vision into small baby steps to get me started, so I am not overblown with the Hugeness of the vision.
First thing, is cleaning up my flat, exercise, and get my things in order again and get a job. Not more than that, for now.
woo hoo you go girl! you are motivating me to get back on the exercising as I always feel much better when I do. It seems our lives and our homes become as chaotic as our mind is LOL!
Ya know Jen I wonder if you have felt like this? Sometimes when I have come to a revelation ex finding out the Narc was a Narc or that I am a raging Codependent (both of these are true) but when I found these things out it was like a "high" for me again I almost got euphoric almost like a substitute euphoria for the one I got with the Narc. So armed with my new found knowledage I feel empowered and in control for a week or so and then I come back down to earth and say to my Sick of it so he's Narc and you are a Codependent big whoop? and somehow it was like I expected those revelations to fix it all but they didnt. I would feel a bit deflated. Here's the thing we can find all of the answers to our questions but unless we take some sort of action to improve our situations than it still the same old thing. I for one am terrible at this. The one thing I did take action on was the psychic chord thing and honestly when I did I felt better. I dont know if that crap is true or not but I will say its true in that I believed it and put it in to action and it produced results.
So my two cents is you are doing the right thing with taking a baby step in cleaning up your place and exercising. I did the same thing around Christmas and I must say I was better but I stopped and I slipped right into the same old thought patterns.
We can analyze and enlighten ourselves to death but the cold hard facts are that we suffer an addiction not to a substance but a person an evil one at that. We just have to say to ourselves this addiction is crippling me (and it truly it is) I dont wanna be an addict anymore and start making some steps to get clean. Really thats all you can do period
yep - it is self determination. Am I going to stay stuck or am I going to pull myself out of the pit.
It's also just part of normal human biorythems (sp?) to just go up and down over days and weeks. Hormones and such. Sleep quality, food quality, physical strength.
A big part of getting in touch with ourselves as humans is realizing we have to recognize our bad days and moments, when feeling negative about the past, present or the future can creep in and start to bring us down.
It involves grabbing hold of yourself and saying 'OK, I recognize this. The last time I felt X, I determined that X was not as bad as I had imagined'. This is where cognitive behavioral therapy has been so useful for me.
I've had a bit of a tough patch, not because of the N anymore but because it's been my pattern for so long and things are changing in my life so I am anxious and feeling unsettled.
Yes addiction. We are like cocain addicts according to studies. And we have to treat it that way, or it'll never stop. Never.
I will also stop smoking, these things are also activating the same paths in brain like heartbreak does. So its necessary to stop.
I hope my euphory will last a while, sometimes I forget again for what I should become strong again. Then I lose perspective.
I decided to remind me, when that happens, just for the sake of life, and nothing more. Accepting I am here on earth, still living in this physical reality, and I was stupid enough to chose this planet, so now I have to get through this.
Honest! This is how you honestly feel and that is real Jen. You don't wanna label it, you don't want advice. You want someone to say "yea, you love him and that blows".
I do have a mountain of advice that I can throw at you but the truth is our feelings are NOT wrong or right. I wouldn't tell you to pine over him but I validate your feelings. Why would we spend time on forums if we didn't have large amounts of LOVE in our hearts?
I have nothing to say except, I know you love. I'm sorry you love. I'm also happy that you can love.
Your never wrong with your feelings. We feel what we feel and we know what we know. I can't support loving the loveless but I can support YOU! I'm going to just HUG you!
It's ok to love him, after all you are human, he manipulated your feelings as only an N can do, it was intoxicating, exhilarating, euphoric...it's ok to be in "love" with that, but him, a fake, a fraud, capable of only GOD knows what, work him out of your system ASAP, he's too toxic, love him from a distance, best wishes.
stay~strong
Remember that us loving them was never the problem. They didn't love us. At least mine didn't love me anyway. And we have now started to take the steps in being kind and loving to ourselves. I feel the same way you do. Keep your head up honey. I have faith we will make it.
You are in love with something, but it's not him. You are in love with the dream of who you thought he was, the heightened emotions he made you feel, the beliefs you projected on him. If you stop for a minute and look at the REAL him, I'm sure there isn't much to miss. You need to mourn the loss of the dream you believed in, and let it go, knowing there is a better reality out there for you.
And I can definitely relate to what "Sick of It" says about being addicted. There is an article I read about the biochemistry of falling in love. And how our brains get addicted to the chemicals that are released during that experience. I too experienced classic withdraw symptoms: sweats, shakes, anxiety, panic, sleeplessness, all of it. And being co-dependent (thanks to my Narc father), I believed I could take care of him, and fix him... but Narcs cannot be fixed.
Hang in there, find healthy, constructive ways to distract yourself from obsessing. Reading books about Narcissism really helped me. That and professional counseling.
I think it is ok to still love him. As long as you're not acting upon it. As long if you love yourself more and never ever let him hurt you again. Don't beat yourself up for still loving him. Maybe you should try to understand where this comes from? Maybe this will be a way to find some peace?
Just don't let him back in your life....
Big hug,
Anne
When you say you love him today, what EXACTLY does that mean?
Define this love. In words.
When I think of love, it is so NOT what I felt for the Narc, at least toward the end.
The only love I felt for him, and perhaps still do to a degree, is that I wish he could find (in that huge gaping pit of his lack of soul) himself, crawl up and find real joy in his life like I am beginning to do. I wish that for everyone.
Yearning for him, his wonderful brown eyes, his touch, his laugh, his presence? To me, that's not really "love", that's my loneliness, that's the empty spot left in my life when I got rid of him.
Love is more than missing and yearning for someone. Love is more of an "action" than a feeling. Love is when you take action to help a person become their best self. Sometimes love can come across harshly, because you have to confront their denial. They feel it as pain or judgment, but you KNOW where YOU are coming from, inside, and are willing to risk them being hurt by what you say in the chance they will take a long hard look at what they are doing.
I do believe it when people long out of their abusive relationship insist they still deeply love their abuser. I shudder at it, but I believe it. Feelings are what they are, it's not like you can or should argue with them.
I hear you suffering a bit, though? That's what I'm thinking of when I write this.
Hello, you need to get pass this? You can mourn the dead, be glad you are able to feel. I love the nice narc too. I have a question for you. What are you doing to move forward ?
Idealk
Love, hate, indifference, compassion, disgust, desire, love, hate, indifference, compassion, disgust, desire, love, hate . . .
I'm getting to the point where I am truly realizing that he isn't real. Never was real. I'm actually looking at his total indifference to me and thinking, "He knows exactly what I was to him, and he's acting accordingly." That's what I'm trying to do: respond to his actions accordingly.
When I miss and love him I remind myself that if he did contact me I would immediately start shaking.
Yes helldweller the first email I got from him after 15 years my hands shook and I broke out in a sweat. I should have known right then and there that something wasn't right the first phone conversation I could barely speak. I know if I got a txt right now my ands would shake and I would sweat out of what I call a euphoric fear. That's when you know you have been involved in something dysfunctional
I am a raging codependent and I behave like a true addict
I would say its definitely a sign that a trauma bond exists. I mean I have been nervous about dates or around a certain guy I really liked but this I had a real fear element in it and also a love/hate element.
Yes and yes. I remember so very many times that I longed to see him again after we broke up and he wouldn't respond to me. I begged and begged and begged via text and voice mails and notes and when he'd finally answer and say yes I would go into physical shock: shaking, heart pounding, tunnel vision. No, this isn't love.
Insanely and immediately I'd literally think: "Shit. NOW what am I going to do?" And I would try to figure out a way to get out of seeing him. I would almost feel the suction, the whirlpool ready to suck me back down, and I didn't know what the hell I was thinking. It was a knee jerk reaction, an addicition, an obssession, and, looking back: truly a game, just like the one he was playing.
I was afraid this was coming. It seems it comes for me after a period of revelation. Like when it became clear that I am a serious codependent. I felt elated and empowered at first and then about a week later I was like great Im codependent and I still love him. I will say those feeling are getting a little less now that it has been months since I have seen or talked to him.
Jen its not that you love him. YOU ARE ADDICTED to the feeling of loving him. Its meeting a need for you. So Imtrying to tell myself that. I DO NOT LOVE HIM. I AM ADDICTED to the feeling that I love him.
Oh Jen sweetheart xx Thank god that we are not like the narc and can turn of the love switch when we want . Heres my mantra and it gives me comfort "its ok to love him its not ok to do anything about it ".. i stil love my narc and it dosnt matter . You simply can talk youre self out of love because love is a feeling not a thought . I can say that in time he will disopear from the frount of youre head and he will be pushd to the back and one day he will be pushed all the way out the back . All i can say is this just takes a hell of a long time , im 13 months out now and i still dream of how i would act if he came through my door right now with his arms out streched and i know that i would hug him and cry my eyes out .. and thats why i can have him come through my door because i would never be able to let go of him and sooner or later he would pull the d&d and that time it WOULD KILL ME .I couldnt do another year like this one , it has taken everything i have in me to get through it , strenght like i never knew i had , you will see in a few months when you have put in the time that very slowly it starts to make sence , i still get light bulb moments , they say 18 months of healing if not more and i believe that .xx
Hi Jen, I still think i love my ex Narc sometimes but i dont, I hate him. You could just be having a bad day, How long was you with him Jen? Try and stay strong Jen, Big hugs from Liverpool UK, xx
The Last Station
Redefining love
To everyone who answered
woo hoo you go girl! you are
ups and downs
sick of it
I know what to call it
it's ok....
stay~strong
Ahhh... Jen.
Jen
for Jen
When you say you love him
Jen
still loving him.
Yes helldweller the first
Yes! that sweat of "euphoric
I would say its definitely a
sick of it
The first time he flew in. I
Oh geez..
Oh Jen sweetheart xx Thank
Hi Jen, I still think i love
STAY STRONG!! XX