- Proof in the Pudding continued.....pleeeeeease help.

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#1 Apr 25 - 3AM
nolongerafixer
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- Proof in the Pudding continued.....pleeeeeease help.

TexN and Destiny,
Both your comments on `Proof in the Pudding!` were very, very much needed this morning and especially Destiny`s last para, ("I too yearn for driving next to my Narc with music playing..visiting our favorite spots etc... but I am thankful I never have to worry about who he is talking to,texting chatting with at all hours(he rarely slept)...the new woman has all of that now"). Very apt for me at mo.
Barbara.....can you please come in on the following and SHOUT something at me to get me out of where I am now `gut wrenching sick feelings of jealousy???!!! sudden sense of overwhelming bereavement???!!!! overwhelming sadness?????!and questioning????
This is a carry on from PROOF IN THE PUDDING story.................since then I.have bumped into quite a few `village`, `outside village` people and the `xN intimidation` and `GF bumping into me` incidents have flown round like wildfire! (although this is a village, it is on the outskirts of London so we are blessed with country but easy commute to London ). Without me adding fuel to the fire, when anyone makes a comment I just add "that was just a small example of what he`s really like` and let them do the talking. It seems people know what hes about and what the GF is about etc etc which was helping enormously catapulting me into what I thought was the very end of my healing process i.e. IT IS ALL FINALLY OVER AND I AM FREE OF IT............ until that is, this Friday night.............same scenario, packed pub garden etc spilling out. The same chap who works for xN, who had said previously that hed been shocked when xN and I had broken up as hed thought we would be together forever, we were made for each other, that xN was so cut up about the split, devastated id changed my numbers that he drank himself into stuper most nights, cried infront of friends, lost weight, threw his keys out of the bedroom window for his workers to go to work without him etc., was there and came over to say hi. He touched on the subject again in this idealistic love manner and I thought Id put him straight after id gained his trust (hopefully....but if not.....I didnt care). I told him xN was incapable of love, it was all about ownership and control from which it would get violently out of hand if even the tiniest bit of control was lost. He very adamently, but nicely, (he`s a very nice man) said that I had got my xN all wrong. Hed known and worked for xN for a very long time and yes, he told lies, yes he had rages towards the workforce but he was totally and utterly in love with me. Hed never seen him with a woman the way he was with me. I went on to point out that in public, yes, everyone thought same as he told them so but behind closed doors or in front of certain people he would treat me with contempt. I skimmed the surface by giving him a couple of examples of him being loving and attentive then suddenly becoming bitterly cold, discarding,demeaning, disrespectful in front of ex wives, or members of his family or when questioned on obvious lies he would rage, intimidate (ie. driving the car excessive speeds trying to kill us, physical violence all because I questioned a blatant questionable lie or activity of some sort)and that they were not the actions of a man who loved and respected his loved one. He still wouldnt have it. He said I had it all wrong about him. I then asked that he surely could see a pattern emerging with New GF. i.e. the isolation technique etc. He disagreed.......shed had no friends, she wasnt close to her family, she doesnt get on with her 13 year old daughter which is why she doesnt see much of her now!!! And that he couldnt see him being violent with this one. It takes two to tango??!! I came back with...I agreed with the `takes two to tango` theory in some cases but definately not with an inciduous abuser. I then gave him my hospital experience as one example(when wed been absolutely loving and perfectly blissful pre hospital but during my stay he was cold, distant etc and the day I got out hed purposefully created a questionable knowing I was going to question it to which he could react by literally kicking my back, wripping the skirt I was wearing and throwing his cup of almost hot tea over me and of which I certainly didnt help tango as we were seemingly so in love pre hospital - last para I think in my share a story). He said he was shocked and didnt understand why he would react like that but all he could come up with was that he was so in love with me and was frightened stiff of losing me. He basically put him in the `NORMAL` bracket. He then let it slip he and new GF had gone away to the South of France for the week. Well this was a very favourite haunt of ours. We absolutely loved driving all the way down there and thought of buying a place there. It seems hes carbon copying everything we did.
After talking to him and hearing this I felt literally SICK, I felt like I was going to vomit, DEFLATED, JEALOUS, SAD, FELT LIKE CURLING UP AND CRYING AND NEVER COMING OUT AGAIN. I cant believe this person who has worked with him everyday for years cannot see. It made me then question.......was it me?................was he so in love he was blind with jealousy?.................could I have done things differently?..................but I did keep going back.........I did try different ways..............I remember journaling on one occasion after going back that we had finally cracked it in that I could trust him, I could not feel any lies and deceipt milling around and this makes for a fantastic future until a few weeks later something else popped up in our otherwise perfect relationship i.e. finding on his laptop porn addiction with cyber connections!!??We were having great sex, we were soooo in love so why would he need to do that???(my questioning the questionable at the time - I know the answer now!)
I also feel angry that Ive taught him a new way of life. Before me he would drink in his local most nights and have a string of girls on his arms going away to one destination maybe twice a year. I had travelled with my job all over the world. He wanted he and I to copy my travels together during our relationship so he could experience what Id experienced, hence going away so much.. He wouldnt hear of me paying half and because he was wealthy he would have nothing but the best. This together with his mills and boon persona made for such a `heavenly` cocktail. I loved being with him 24/7.Everything was romantic. I loved the intensity of his neediness for me, the doing everything togetherness, the closeness. The `man` looking after me, I miss, yearn, ache for being with my Mr. Jekyle sooooo much. It seems now hes carbon copying all my trips with new GF. I feel so angry and jealous! He wouldn`t be doing this if it werent for the fact he`d learned it from me. I taught him to live life out of his comfort zones.
Maybe this one will work and last????? Barbara how do we know its not us ???? You say yourself your exN has remarried....................how long have they been married? Is she showing signs of PTSD like weve all suffered???? Is it because were intelligent women and can see/feel things more intuitively? My xNs new GF is rather dim so will she just slide by the things that I could see he was up to which means she wont question, wont get the rages, and just get allthe good stuff? Arent they supposed to discard that type anyway in the end or is he too old now that he will work to keep this one?? He did work hard to keep me by fighting to not let me go. Even when I went NC his last two letters were so sad in that he was so apologetic in the way he was acting was because he loved me so much yet the police had to be called at this ending. Even in the last ending there was heaven/hell reactions. He showed me statements, gave me his phone etc but I still found indescrepencies .....it was maddness after nearly four years in that hed got me to that stage when a normal relationship by then would have progressed to a foregone conclusion of trustworthyness. It has ruined me. Without sounding vain I am an attractive, good figured, natural blonde who has no problem attracting respectful attention but no one will fit his Jekyle bill. NOONE. Its HELL with or without him. I am totally f***d and I cannot wait for the day Im taken from this earth when I hope this will be out of my head FOREVER. How can he go to places that we visited more than once so intensely with someone else? I wouldnt be able to do it as it would bring back too many memories. How can you move on when hes still inside you so deep.......................I cant bear it..................could you pleaes say something to snap me out of this? Im still on that rollercoaster. Heaven and hell! BE BLATANT AND TRUTHFUL. AS THAT MAN HAS TRIGGERED THIS I NEED TRIGGERING BACK. I feel as though Ive cut off my nose to spite my face. They are appearing normal going off to MY places.
Ive been up high for so long and now im right at the bottom...............no midway...........it is such a hard fall.

Apr 27 - 4PM
nolongerafixer
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another thank you to you all.

God you lot are soooo good! I don`t even know you but I truly love you all! You`re like sisters rallying round and boy do your words of wisdom help! It`s been two days since my upset and I am almost feeling like I was beforehand. I WILL NOT ALLOW MYSELF TO GO DOWN THERE AGAIN. I will re read all your poignant points and keep them in mind for any events that may occur. My points to remember from each of you are as follows: TexN "The idiot only knows what you showed him. He doesnt know how to have his own life, he has to copy yours. Its all a performance! Just don`t go there!! She`ll be old news in time. Remember, the show always has to end" .............. superbly said......it so helps! herlatestvictim " DON'T LOOK BACK! There is no use in replaying the relationship, words... it was all false. Fight the crying. Love shouldn't hurt so bad. You should be a better person because of your partner, not an emotional mess. NPD is an illness and it's very real. Run. ".............. reiterating what we all know.........not to waste time on it. rinalda "if he can find another, so can you. While I'm sitting here crying, he's not. He's out getting his fix. How unfair is THAT?? Don't give him this much of yourself. These Ns are so shallow that whatever "relationships" they form won't last. It's about thrills and excitement and, even if it does go on for a while, it's full of manipulation/head games/power trips and NOT SOMETHING YOU WANT ANYWAY!!! " ..........so true particularly the latter. if it werent for the manipulation/headgames/power trips we`d still be with them. narcnarcsswhosthere " please read my latest post....MR. TOAD'S WILD RIDE...i stood and watched the psychonarc dying of liver and renal failure....shamelessly conning lying and manipulating...to the very end....then found the hard evidence in his apartment and on his email...something seldom seen, i believe.....proof of what a monster he always was....in his own words....." ..............I will and make a comment there.
Apr 27 - 12PM
TexN (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Nolonger

Hope you're getting out of the rut you were in. The reason he's taking her to the places you two went is cos the idiot only knows what YOU showed him! He doesn't know how to have his OWN life so he had to copy yours! He can copy your life all he wants but at the end of the day, he is still a worthless piece of shit! Its all a performance! I know that jealousy feeling all too well! When i start thinking of him i immediately start thinking of the crap he used to do that turned me off! I think of how ugly he could be. Don't allow your thoughts to go to the good times, it didn't mean the same to him as it did to you...just DON'T GO THERE!!! She'll be old news in time. Remember, the show always has to end...
Apr 27 - 11AM
herlatestvictim
herlatestvictim's picture

Don't allow yourself to start...

What works for me is not allowing myself to start looking back at the relationship! I even had a post it note on my desk for a while that said DON'T LOOK BACK! There is no use in replaying the relationship, words... it was all false. Also, don't allow yourself to go on a crying jag. Sure, we can't help shedding tears, but fight them! I allow myself 10 minutes or so, NEVER get in bed cause I will cry the day away, and breathe your way through it. The bottom line, love shouldn't hurt so bad. You should be a better person because of your partner, not an emotional mess. I struggle everyday, just like you... always questioning, but in the end, NPD is an illness and it's very real. Run. Everyone says, run away from the N in your life. I do believe they will destroy us if we don't. Best of luck to you.
Apr 27 - 10AM
Rinalda
Rinalda's picture

Understand the angst

nolongerafixer--I ask a lot of these questions myself and completely relate to this outpouring of grief. From the outside, though, reading your situation, it strikes me that if he can find another, so can you. It's a cliche, but there are plenty of fish in the sea. One thought that does get my anger up is the idea that while I'm sitting her crying, he's not. He's out getting his fix. How unfair is THAT?? Don't give him this much of yourself. He does NOT deserve it. It's so hard, though. I suffer the same debilitating thoughts about him going to the same goddamn places with her and reliving our relationship. Like you, I wouldn't be able to go there with someone else; it would be too hard. To cope, I try to remember what everyone has said here: these Ns are so shallow that whatever "relationships" they form won't last. It's about thrills and excitement and, even if it does go on for a while, it's full of manipulation/head games/power trips and NOT SOMETHING YOU WANT ANYWAY!!! I always forget how he treated me during our time together--you have to remember the bad times and realize you're better off now. Yes, I know how it is when the OW seems dim and passive and just takes it all. Well, she is in for a hard fall, I guess, being "blind" or turning a blind eye.
Apr 27 - 9AM
narcnarcwhosthere (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

if you want proof in the pudding.....

then please read my latest post....MR. TOAD'S WILD RIDE...i stood and watched the psychonarc dying of liver and renal failure....shamelessly conning lying and manipulating...to the very end....then found the hard evidence in his apartment and on his email...something seldom seen, i believe.....proof of what a monster he always was....in his own words.....
Apr 25 - 3PM
nolongerafixer
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Better Off and Scoop

Better Off Thank you for your straight talking. I should know better than to let myself get into such a state. By now I should see it all plain and clear. I think it was too close to home bringing up the Dr.Jekyle I miss so much and who I have suppressed by tapping into Mr. Hyde everytime the good times with Jekyle appear in my mind. I havent had an attack like that for ages. It almost feels like I digress into a vulnerable, helpless CHILD instead of a woman who has learned an awful lot about narcissm. I have cried it out today so hopefully when I get up for work tomorrow I should be on my way up again. Do you know, I think you may be right about the brainwashing of xNs workman. I didnt think of it like that. I was already engulfed with the all consuming feelings and thoughts I mentioned. As far fetched as this may seem to someone else not in the know, you and I know they are very capable of this. Come to think of it Ive been seeing both his sons appear separately wherever I have been drinking since the `intimidation` which I didnt think much of at the time except it being a big coincidence as it was unusual for them to be there. Perhaps he has them spying on who is talking to me or what im up to. He definately controls his two ex wives and various ex gfs still and must be quite angry inside that I was the one that got away with abso NC. That and the fact Im freely enjoying a social life around my village. Perhaps hes worried that I might spill the beans so hes come up with showing hes an extra nice sensitive guy to his workmen. I will also absolutely take your advice and I will say to anyone who brings it up again even if they just comment on the fact they`re surprised at us not being together anymore I shall say exactly that......."I dont discuss that". and I will avoid any of his close acquaintances. Thank you. xx Scoop Thank you too for your reassurances.. I will avoid anyone who knows xN and youre right , of course, this man doesn`t know. How could he possibly understand. He only knows what he sees as the mask. Of course hes not going to see what I saw, as that behaviour is saved for the victims who get close and who only see it themselves over a long period of time. I agree, when you do try to explain to someone who hasnt a clue like xNs workman it comes out sounding very surreal and you do sound like your mad. There is no point. You do have to hold on to what you know and be glad you`re now out of it. As ive said above, I have cried it out today (first in a long time) and had thought id give the village a miss for a couple of weekends, good suggestion. You`re right again with the PTS thing. I know I have it, as I feel it. It is like a panic attack. Is that how it feels to you? I also feel like I go into `vulnerable child mode`. I felt it whelming up inside me when the conversation was triggering the lovely memories I was suppressing and I literally felt like vomitting. Its so awful. It takes a while to leave sometimes days. I will look forward to the obsessive thoughts of the good guy/times dying down for good. Thank you. xx
Apr 25 - 12PM
better off
better off's picture

The person who INSISTED on

The person who INSISTED on having this conversation with you, and kept INSISTING that you had the guy all wrong... is just part of the N's bag of tricks. He's not normal either! For one thing, why the hell should he care about the two of you anyway. The bottom line is this guy is just being manipulated by the bastard as well... one of the N/P traits is getting other people to do their dirty work, etc. He's brainwashed this guy into his world and is actually using him to get to you. I'm ABSOLUTELY SURE he's talked this idiot into telling you these things and I'm ABSOLUTELY SURE he isn't doing it on his own. Year and years ago I was being pursued by a very dangerous stalker, and he would make up ridiculous lies and stories to people to get them to talk to me FOR him, because he wasn't allowed to get near me. He was banned from college campus, etc. So he would tell people we were engaged but now I wouldn't talk to him, etc, get people to essentially spy on me for him. Would befriend people just because they lived in my apartment complex. They were all so stupid. After this experience I hope you've learned not to even discuss it with other people. It's just another way for him to reach his tentacles into your world. "I don't discuss that." No matter what they keep saying you just keep saying "I don't discuss that." And stay away from any of his supporters. Eventually everyone finds out on their own.
Apr 25 - 6AM
Scoop
Scoop's picture

Oh heck what a mess

Oh heck what a mess nolongerafixer. fist let me tell you that i am also a home counties girl and i understand village life very well .I understand how everyone knows everyone else and have proberly grown up in a very small place together which makes no contact almost impossible , part of NC is to try and not mix with people who will talk about narc as well . So this bloke you know down the pub recons your narc is misunderstood right ?.. what a pile of poo . This bloke who works with your narc sees the mask as does everyone else apart from proberly his mum and any ex girlfriends .What the narc does is make sure the door is firmly closed before he takes his mask off so how on earth can this man know what your narc is like , sure he has known your narc for a long time they have had a few pints with each other and proberly talked cars or music (guy talk down the pub or at work is not poetic or deep lets be honest here ). You have to hold on to what you know . You will proberly never be able to share what you know for anyone to really get it , this is sad but true . I have had a couple of conversations with a man friend of mine which had me questioning my versions of events he said " so you had a lot of arguments, he sounds like my ex girlfriend " well no actualy it was 100 times werse but how do you explans a tone of voise or a look that you narc uses that cuts you to the soul ? you cant and if you try people look at you as if you are mad . Can you not go down the pub for a while . Get some distance from the whole situation ? maybe get a cab to the nearest town on a friday night with your mates ?I know it is horrible to stay away for everyone but it wont be for ever . At the end of last summer i was where you are emotionaly , rollercoster city , i was all over the place , i was feeling feeling i never thought i could feel . Its post traumatic stress . My GP was rubbish he looked at me as if to say how can you have post traumatic stress its not like you have just come back fighting in Afghanistan or something . I can tell you that slowly slowly the rollercoster gets slower and the obbsessive thoughts die down . No contact with his friends is a part of it . I had him and his best friend text me last night i ignored them (his best mate ended up calling me a name whe i didnt replie ) Hold in there , what you are feeling is compleatly normal and we have all been there IT DOES GET BETTER ! Big Love to you Scoop x
Apr 27 - 1PM (Reply to #2)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

nolongerafixer

how do we know it's not us? um... do you think they'd come to a forum like this asking those kind of questions? or that they'd even CARE? NO!!! because they have NO EMPATHY! You say yourself your exN has remarried... ONE of my exNs - who I haven't spoken to in 20 years, who has a harem still, I'm sure - and who destroyed me for years... ONE of them. I blamed myself for years & years for what he did to me. how long have they been married? Is she showing signs of PTSD like weve all suffered???? I have NO CLUE. She's a TOXIC HOPE person who's been in love with him for over 30 years. Probably refuses to see or believe the truth. They've been married a few years now - directly after their divorces from both their first spouses. Personally I hope it lasts, save others from him sucking them dry. have you read WOMEN WHO LOVE PSYCHOPATHS yet? Are you in therapy? ~~~~~~~~~ Moving Forward: Coaching for Victims Pathologicals Feelings buried alive never die. - Alice Miller