I thought I was doing the right thing...

17 posts / 0 new

#1 Jun 11 - 1AM

Anonymous (not verified)

I thought I was doing the right thing...

First I thought he was an alcoholic, then I thought he was a sex addict, then I thought he had ADHD. Now after reading the book I know he is a narcisist.

The thing is, I have chosen to stay in the marriage.

We have two kids. We get along for the most part. We have done years of intense therapy and I still go for follow up. Although I have many complaints about his parenting, he does help raise them and they adore him.

Although things are pretty calm right now, I know that he still has the thought processes of a narcisist and it is very hard and lonely to live with.

So, though there is less drama, there is no connection. Just our kids and our common interests.

I am willing to just live with it. It makes me sad but even if I divorce him I will still have to deal with him every other weekend because of the kids.

Is there anyone that can support me on this or is EVERYONE against staying with a narcisist?

#2 Jun 14 - 9PM

Carolyn

Narcissists have levels but

Narcissists have levels but you mention some things that cause concern. He has an alcahol problem, he has something that causes him not to be able to focus or be hyperactive it wasn't clear what ADHD symptoms are there. You might want to go to an ALANON meeting. ALANON is the family spin off of Alcaholics Anonymous and the families of addicts find a lot of comfort, information, and support going to the meetings. Many people can live with a disordered partner and if your children adore him and you are willing to remain with him you have accepted him as he is. Is Something else lurking in the background? Divorce is tough, do you work, can you take care of yourself and your children? You are looking at dealing with him for visitation. You mention that 'other people' mention his parenting problems? There seems to be something between the lines here. You are doing the best you know how in dealing with a tough and lonely problem. Find someone you can talk to.

#3 Jun 12 - 9AM

Barbara (not verified)

jenn99

I say this with personal concern, jenn99 the man you are with is not a N - he is a full-blown PSYCHOPATH. The posts you have made over the last few weeks show this to be fact. Do not be so quick to 'jump to support' trapped's staying with her N, to whom she is married and there is not the overwhelming evidence of perversity your P shows, as a reason to agree 'it's o.k.' for you to remain in contact with your predator. I will say again, your inability to go No Contact with him is going to lead you to harm. If you are not in counseling, get in counseling - you are playing a dangerous game. And continuing to complain and doing nothing about it or your safety is unhealthy at the least and lethal at the worst. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/

#4 Jun 12 - 8AM

Barbara (not verified)

Can You 'Love' a Narcissist?

by Anna Valerious Do you love the narcissist? Or are you in love with your fantasy of what you wish the narcissist to be? How can you tell whether you love the person or the fantasy? The following applies not only to romantic relationships; it applies across the board of all relationships including parent/child. You can not truly love someone until they have revealed their characters to you. Why is this so? Because who we are is revealed by what we choose to do. Our characters are the sum total of the choices we've made. Until you know someone's character you can not say in truth that you know or love who they are. This explains why so many marriages fall apart. People fall in love with their imagined version of the other person and don't become acquainted with that other person's character until enough time has passed for the consistency of their characters to be revealed. This is why short dating periods are often disastrous in the long-term. We each have a will. How we exercise our will = the choices we make. The choices we make = our behaviors. The consistent behaviors a person exhibits is the truth of who they are. Behaviors are the revelation of character. Behaviors reveal what has been happening in the unseen realm of someone's thinking. When a person, like Cho of the Virginia Tech massacre, suddenly went on a murderous rampage, he was not acting out of character. He revealed what his character truly was. We have a sudden, horrific and stark revelation of what his thinking and small choices have added up to. What Cho did is who he is. Cho forced us all to see what an evil character had been developing quietly step by step and choice by choice while no one was really looking. We often hear people protest after being caught in some bad behavior that "it isn't like me to do this". No, it is like you. You chose to do what you did. You revealed who you are, not who you aren't, when you cheated on your husband or when you cooked the books at work. If, after having a clear view of someone's personal character traits, you have respect, admiration and trust in that person then you can correctly state that you love this person. Then there is the situation where you have gotten to know the personal characteristics of an individual, and you find that you can not say you love those characteristics. Yet you insist that you still love the person. Never mind that this person lies to you, cheats on you, slanders you to others, even physically abuses you...you tenaciously insist you hate their character traits but you love the person. It is this so-called "love" which justifies why you are still in this bad relationship. Whatever the reason for it (there can be many), this is describing someone who has created a fantasy around the objectionable character. They are not in love with the person... they are in love with the idea of who they've decided this person is in spite of the evidence to the contrary. This is not reality-based thinking. To insist a person is "good" despite what bad things they actually do is an exercise in your imagination only. Perhaps you insist that you love what this person could be if they only tried. This, too, is a refusal to live in reality. Can we please dispense with this sloppy thinking? Can we stop trying to fool ourselves in order to justify staying in a destructive relationship? Can we call things by their right names? Go ahead and insist that you love the rotten character, but quit doing it to make yourself believe you are a better person for doing so. Stop white-washing their character in order to convince yourself you need to stay connected to them. If you are afraid of leaving the comfort of the known for the discomfort of the unknown world of life without this bad character, then admit that truth to yourself. But stop pretending you love something that is hateful. Remember that a key component of mental health is the mind which insists on living in reality i.e. the truth. You are not doing your mental health any favors by engaging in these mental games which allow you to stay in a bad place. If you don't love what a person does then you can't accurately state that you love the person himself. This type of imaginary love is a real problem for many adult children of narcissists (ACONs). It can be incredibly difficult to admit to yourself that you don't love your narcissist parent or that they don't love you. It seems to go against nature to make that admission. I see many ACONs insisting to themselves that they love their N mom or N dad despite the decades of ill treatment they've received from her or him. The ACON isn't ready to give up the idea of having a loving parent, so the ACON must pretend they love this abusive parent in order to justify staying connected. They are willing to pretend that their mommy or daddy really loves them "deep down" though they don't recognize they are having to imagine the love they "see" coming from their parent. This keeps the ACON in an actively destructive relationship. Many ACONs are willing to risk their marriages and their own children's emotional and physical safety in order to "keep the dream alive". This refusal to admit to reality is damaging to more than your own mental health. You can risk everything good in your life by insisting your fantasy is reality. Your refusal to walk away from a destructive parent is not a testament to your deep and abiding love for this person... it is a testament to your volitional stupidity. Do not call your dependency on a bad relationship "love". It is okay to love a bad person, but only from a distance. Don't insist your love for a destructive person is justification enough for staying close to them. You risk all that is good and beautiful in life in order to love the unlovable. Maybe you think that means you are a better person because you can love and unlovable, but when your so-called love means the destruction of your own well-being, and the well-being of the innocents around you, then I insist you are not as good as you think you are. http://narcissists-suck.blogspot.com/2007/08/can-you-love-narcissist.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/

#5 Jun 12 - 12AM

jenn99 (not verified)

staying with an n

sometimes people do have to stay and its not always the worst thing....but with an it is really hard and you don't know where the roller coaster will lead you or what will happen when it comes to them....in general it's probably better to leave but just because you or most people had a horrendous experience doesn't mean everyone is going to have that traumatic of one and needs to leave or get out...dependent upon their situation that goes for any relationship too....the problem with N's is that they are so up and down unpredictable and extreme that they can do a 180 otu of the blue for no reason and they can do a lot of damage to their victims...so there is that terrible uncertainty with them there...some people do stay though I would recommend leaving if you can in order to avoid serious damage the n will eventually end up doing to you...

#6 Jun 11 - 9PM

Barbara (not verified)

trapped

thanks. nothing wrong with having an additional board to look to for support. hope you get a chance to listen to this week's blogtalkradio show: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/allabouthim/2009/06/11/All-About-Him-The-Two-Types-of-Narcissists ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/

#7 Jun 11 - 12PM

Barbara (not verified)

trapped

I found a support board for those committed to staying with the pathological: http://forum.outofthefogsite.com/forum/29375/ I personally do not recommend it for some of the reasons I stated but if that's your decision, I respect it.

#8 Jun 11 - 9PM (Reply to #11)

trapped (not verified)

thanks barbara

YOu don't know how much this site has helped me just in the last 2 days of finding it. I feel so validated and not as alone. I will stay on it to keep "sane". Thanks for listening and for the advice.

#9 Jun 11 - 8AM

trapped (not verified)

I'm staying

Thanks, Yikes. I am in the same boat. I have four kids and I'm lonely and I'm on a roller coaster. As long as I do the things I need to everything is fine. I just get so tired and lonely and feeling crazy that a couple of times a year I lose it and can't function. I'm feeling like that now. I need to stay and be OK for my kids, they need the security. He is not a man that makes a feel secure or ever knowing what is happening. I need to be the rock. There is not as much drama here either. I create the drama when I try to talk to him about my feelings. He is passive aggressive also. He looks at me like I have three heads if I bring anything up. He tells me that I'm just being mean telling him the negative things about him. I don't yell, I just try to tell him how the things he does make me feel. He tells me that I'm always bringing up negative stuff and can I just get over things and stop making a mouse turd into a mountain. It is very difficult. I can feel for you. It is very lonely. As my kids get older, I am making friends and getting out more. This is keeping me sane; however, I have learned that talking too much about my husband is not a good thing. (by too much I mean maybe once a month) no one understands what this is like. It does sound like I"m making a mountain out of every little thing.

#10 Jun 13 - 2AM (Reply to #9)

yikes (not verified)

thanks

I am coping similarly... being with friends, focusing on my kids and my family, working on myself, a lot of therapy, etc. It is helping. I never claimed to be "in love" with a narcisist. I actually realize that it is impossible. I am just claiming that I think that for right now, I can handle it. It is hard but I think I can do it. Yes, it is sad to live without love, but I also think that it is possible. Sounds so sad, I know.

#11 Jun 12 - 10AM (Reply to #8)

Suzie (not verified)

Trapped

I can completly relate to your situation. I also have four kids. And that in itself is hard. Because my husband lacks in so many ways I spend alot of time trying to compenstate for what they don't get from him(especially emotionally). I just wanted to say to you.... I stayed and stayed. Then I left for about 9 months.. then I went back determined to make it work. We did councling, self help, I tried to make him talk, draw him out. I did everything I could possibly think of. I felt very trapped because of my kids I did not want them to go through a divorce(having gone through that myself as a child). I tried to get support through DV and others while I was still in it. I found none. No one would show me any compasion or understanding. All anyone would say is get out. It is the only way. They wouldn't comfort me. I couldn't talk about situations at home. They didn't want to hear it. They had gotten out and that is the only way. For some reason they failed to remember what it was like to be in the postition of not being ready to leave. Of believing that your situation is somehow different from theirs and that you are strong enough to endure the loneliness and apathy you are experiancing for the sake of the kids. They don't understand feeling trapped and alone and how much you just need some understanding from someone who has been there and can relate. Women could be such a comfort to eachother. But for some reason, when you are still in the situation there is no support. And that is when you need it the most. It is hard to leave when you feel like there is no one out there for you and that no one understands you. Atleast that was my experiance. I felt judged for staying. The women in the group were harsh and not empathetic. They said I was harming my children. I felt I was protecting them. I became evan more isolated. I felt that there was no one I could talk to . And he wouldn't talk. The thing is they are right. You should leave. I know you don't know that now. You are not ready yet. When you are you will leave. You have made a decision to stay. This is what they call the denial/bargaining stage of grief. It is too painful and overwhelming to think about losing your dream right now. I have been there. When you finally get ready there is a great deal of support. I could tell you how great the freedom feals but I know you can't hear it right now. I do know what it is like to be aware and still choose to stay. I am here if you want to talk. And to the other girl who is staying. I don't judge. I won't forget I was there too. And I needed understanding not self rightious preaching and painful facts. Leah

#12 Jun 11 - 1AM

Barbara (not verified)

no

It's not a matter of "against" anything. It's a matter of embracing the REALITY of a relationship with a narc. A relationship with a narc is a "relationship of INEVITABLE harm." Staying with them is a sure fire way to end up a shell of a person and cause yourself emotional, psychic and financial harm as well as harm to your health. We all wish it was different but it isn't. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/

#13 Jun 11 - 6AM (Reply to #2)

grossot

Started reading women who

Started reading women who love psychopaths last night. Always thought that that word was so derogatory and demeaning but the book does a great job po explaining the term, ediology, etc... Thank you. I'm so excited about this book and lisa's accounts in her book have been so healing I don't know what I'd do without this messageboard. My family thinks I should give all the research a rest but I find it comforting that there is a term for his behavior. The word narcissism took a lot of weight off my own shoulders. nolongercontrolled

http://hubpages.com/hub/Married-to-a-Narcissist?preview

nolongercontrolled

#14 Jun 11 - 8AM (Reply to #3)

finallydone

My mother told me the same

My mother told me the same thing, "maybe you should lay off of all that reading for awhile." I have felt a bit obsessive about it, but it's the only thing keeping me grounded at all right now. Like a coping mechanism or something. Question: Is the book, "Women who love psychopaths" easy to get in a bigstore? Or is this one I'm better off ordering? What about Lisa'a book also?

#15 Jun 11 - 9AM (Reply to #6)

Barbara (not verified)

mothers' advice

don't forget many of our mothers came from a culture of don't ask and "just ignore" or "boys will be boys" it may also be they never dealt with a pathological - and pathological victims NEED to be validated and to "understand" what it was that "hit them" - it is key to their healing. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/

#16 Jun 11 - 9AM (Reply to #4)

Barbara (not verified)

finallydone

WOMEN WHO LOVE PSYCHOPATHS is not available in a big store... I have link on my abuse blog (see link below) to buy the book at a deeply discounted price (look on the left margin) LISA's book can be ordered via Amazon. Once you get them - be sure to let us know what you think. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/

#17 Jun 11 - 12PM (Reply to #5)

finallydone

Thanks Barbara! I'll

Thanks Barbara! I'll definitely let you know what I think, but I'm sure I'll find them as helpful as everybody seems to. Thanks much for the information!

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