Cognitive dissonance (not for people in their first steps of recovery!!!!)

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michele115 (not verified)
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Jen
I just read Brie's most recent post... SO let me see if I get it now... These "good" traits can be ANYTHING... If he was good at rollerskating... That could be something about me that caused such a connection? He had something that I admired, or wanted to be just as much as I had something he wanted to be? And so doing this exercise helps me to see or come to terms with better that this wasn't so much of a waste of time because on some level, I too was involved in a manipulation of sorts seeking something and drawing something from him as well even though unhealthy?
jen79
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Michelle
The exercise is only for people who are still hoping he will come around and safe them and who have no idea how to get happy alone. Again, if thats not your issue, then you dont need to. I didnt had any contact with my needs and I was trapped in the projection. So my only way was to see the evil in him hoping that another clone of him one day will come around and THIS time he will give me everything I want, and THEN I can be happy. And now I see, its time to start to do that for myself, and I had no idea how. I wasnt intouch with my own needs and desires, so the list is only using the narc and your needs you want him to fullfill, to get intouch with yourself, in case you werent intouch with yourself before.
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture
Oh but Jen...
I'm not in touch with myself yet... If he were on fire, I'd drink the one glass of water reserved for people on fire, BUT - there is still alot I need to do to find my happy place... With or without him, I have to say to a cetain extent, I haven't found my happy place... My REAL happy place...LOL
jen79
jen79's picture
hahah Michelle
And maybe you will never arrive anywhere, this happy place is a constant battle, it'll always be, you will never arrive there, but you can find it now and then you will have it easier to get there in future when you lose it again. And you dont have to give up that drink totally. I am pretty sure, that if you get intouch with yourself again, starting to make yourself happy alone, someone will come around soon, who will try to give it to you all, you just wont need it so much anymore. lool.
gettinbetter
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Jen 79
I have a question dont you think that you needing the next person to come around and be just like him only this time he was going to give you what you wanted. Do you think that that is rooted in the trauma bond? Codependence is derived from a trauma bond. It seems like this whole shadowing is really just another word for codependence? I read that codependence is about control and looking for your happiness in others not being able to find happiness from within.
jen79
jen79's picture
sick of it
You can call it what you want. I dont like the label so much, cause alot of negativity is involved with it, I have no problem to call me that way, but maybe others here do, so I am carefull to use the word. Its like I prefere saying source energy and universe, or great spirit instead of god, just because the word god has many things within it, that I dont want to connect to. So yes, maybe it is from trauma bond. It doesnt matter so much, where it comes from. Its important, if you realize you projecting and asking someone to make you happy, that you get of the hook and take responsibility for your life, so you wont create the same situation again. Thats all.
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture
I dont know I guess I have
I dont know I guess I have never really thought of Codependence as necessarily a hugely negative thing to me its more synomous with being a people pleaser and maybe some neediness. I mean there are worse things we could be right? LOL I mean atleast were not Narcs there's a positive LOL LOL! I AM A CODPENDENT NARC ADDICT (Recovering one that is) :))
jen79
jen79's picture
Thats an exercise that you can use.
You write down everything that you would tell him, be honest. Everything that you would like to ask him. And then realize, you might talk with yourself, then write down what you want you do instead. I wrote the question to him first, behind is, what I tell myself. Its interesting, what came out, I had no idea. lool. 1.Why are you not loving me so much that you want to be there for me all the time? I want you to love me and be there for me all the time. 2.Why dont you want to experience this passion again with me? I want you to experience this passion again. 3.Why dont you want more? I want more. 4.Why is it enough for you, to just text? I want real conversations. 5.Why do you dont really listen to me and forget things you told me and I told you? Listen to me, and dont forget me. 6.Why dont you just leave your old life behind and just do everything for me to make me happy? Leave your past behind and start everything to make me happy. 7.Why dont you want to have sex again with me? Have sex again. 8.Why are you using me only when you need to? Start to use your abilities every day, not only when you need to, but you want to and you enjoy it. 9.Why are other people more important than I am? Make me the most important person of the world. 10.Why did you forget me? Dont forget me. 11.Why did you forget my past? Dont forget your past. 12.Why do you talk with me in short sentences? Talk with me, take your time to do so. 13.Why are you afraid of me? Dont fear me. 14.Why dont you take action? Take action. 15.Why are you always talking about searching and things you need to do first before you take action? Take action, dont just talk about it. 16.Why are kidding me all the time and keeping me on a hold? Dont fool yourself anymore, start to take action. 17.Why are you avoiding to be with me? Dont avoid me, and face me. 18.Why are you distracting yourself with others? Dont distract yourself from me. 19.Why dont you just love me and commit to me? Love me and commit yourself to me. 20.Why dont you want to have a family with me? Get your life in order, so we can start to think of taking care of a kid. 21.Why do I feel I am not good enough for you? Start to see you as good enough. You are. No one is perfect. 22.Why do you lie all the time? Stand to your word. 23.Why are you so cruel? Dont be cruel, and dont take action that hurt me. 24.Why did you call me names? Stop calling me names. 25.Why did you abandon me, when I express my needs? Dont run away from me, when I tell you what I need. This exercise shows clear, how I projected.
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture
interesting... I think the
interesting... I think the Narc read those questions as just that. You wanting to control the situation. He cant have that. Meeting your needs gives you the control. I know for me if Im being honest with myself YES he was right I did want to control. Absolutely I did. The fact that I didnt take cues from his behavior and kept on with it definitely spells control issues for me. When he started to give me negative feedback I should have either lost interest becuase why would I be intrested in someone not interested in me or I should have just walked away but I didnt it almost fueled me. Its like I was going in for combat. The only problem is he always wins that battle. His lack of empathy makes him a fierce oponent. I know this now that I look back and every time I asked him for something and he denied me, he made comments like "You think I dont love you cause I dont do what you want". I realize now that he and I were always in a battle for control of the situation. He always won but he could not just beat his oponent no like a true predator he had to rip me to shreds and anihlate me merely injuring me wont do he is a predator and he must destroy the enemy. I think thats why they are so drawn to codependents. They are comfortable with them because in many ways they are just like them. The only difference between the two is empathy but Codependents behave like Narcs. I know I do. I dont know if Im reading this right or not but the "Shadow Effect" just seems like another name for Codependence I read somewhere that severe forms of codependence pathological codependence are called Borderlines and Narcs are extrememly attracted to codependents and Borderlines. I also believe thats where the love/hate plays into this the Narc thought he loved me because I felt familiar. He hates me because he sees the same neediness in me that he has for needing supply.
becsta777
becsta777's picture
sick of it
Wow... I could totally relate to what you just said about codependents acting like Narcs. I was just talking about this same thing to my therapist recently, about how I always try to 'play' the game with the narc - at the start I enjoy it, its exhilarating, but my empathy always sees me losing the game every time with a narc. Its like if I can just win the next one, I'll feel validated or something. But I never do. Of course, I don't go seeking out narcs or anything, they just seem to find me when I'm going through a rough patch in life and I'm vulnerable. I think this is related to my father who is totally a narc and who manipulated me terribly when I was a child. He betrayed me countless times. My earliest experiences with men were manipulative ones, so I guess he's been a model for most of my relationships. This support group is so great! :) xoxo
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture
Wow
Lots of deep talk here. All I can say to this which I have mentioned many times. I am the inverted image of him and vice versa. I think alot of this has to do with the projection and introjection. The heart of narcissism is mirroring what do you see when you look in the mirror an inverted image of yourself. When you begin to have needs and expectations and demands you are no longer the inverted image image of the Narc So you have shattered so to speak the mirror and it cant be put back together. They have to go to the store and get a new mirror. I dont if I explained myself right but I know what I mean LOL
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture
I get the mirror part
But for me what I think happens and I'll put it real simple... Yes, we may have some convuluded stuff going on w/ourselves being attracted to craving "love" or whatever, and maybe we've been conditioned to be these super nice empathetic, go overboard caring etc people in order to "secure" that love and so yea, we have issues too with craving acceptance, love and validation...and in some ways, perhaps we are being manipulative in the manner in which we are seeking out such things... BUT, with the Narc, I think it is the CORE of selfishness and his inner false self that makes him run... The fact that he can't give back, that it's all an illusion...none of what they presented WAS REAL...and we are no longer perfect ROBOTS What we are is NOT a true reflection of them - they are FEEDING off of us...and when we have needs, there is no longer that supply that is there for them because an OUNCE of focus is being requested to fill OUR needs...that's why they jet...because they are being asked to step outside of themselves and THEY are unwilling to do that because it would have to entail non-selfishness to do that and they are just too special, and grandiose to ever cater to such "lowlives"
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture
for some possibly for others
for some possibly for others we (codependents) are very much like them. In fact I read somewhere that BPD is a more severe form of codependence with an antisocial flare meaning lack of empathy. I dont think that is the case with everyone on this board with some though I do think it absolutely rooted in codependence. They(the narcs) see they good version of themselves in the codependent. They see themselves with feelings. I know I have felt very Narcisistic at times regarding the whole situation. Damn I wanted him to behave! I wanted him to do what I wanted him to do! Mine always said he felt comfortable with me and I have to tell you it was the same for me. He had been gone 15 years but it didnt seem like it. I know that comes from seeing ourselves in eachother. Oh trust me it has nothing to do with love and caring it has to do with familiarity. I also think the psychic chord thing, the trauman bond and the codependence have all worked together in my situation. I could never figure out what the connection I felt to him was. I know what it is now. I also believe thats where the love/hate plays into this the Narc thought he loved me because I felt familiar. He hates me because he sees the same neediness in me that he has for needing supply. I think thats why it is so hard for some to recover they cant give up the control. The codependence and the trauma work against them to move on. Just my take.
becsta777
becsta777's picture
Sick of it
Thank you so much - it feels so good to know I'm not alone in this. I thought for a long time I had something really wrong with me, and now to know that its a common thing..whoa, it feels great. xoxo
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture
Your welcome Becsta. This
Your welcome Becsta. This actually a thought presented to me by Betty so I began researching it and it first it didn't quite fit as I came out of a healthy home where abuse was not present. My parents were however a little over protective. I remember feeling like they contolled everything and I contolled nothing. It wasn't till I kept researching that I found out that there is a type of codependent that can emerge from happy home circumstances it arises out of naiveness. When I first met the narc I was very young and naive so I think that is where my codependence emerged. I did read that my type of codependence is the easiest to overcome though I don't know at this point as it has been there some 20 years now. Lots of people suffer from codependence its just that we happened to be codependents that got involved with narcs and or psychopaths which is an explosive combination that will deepen any codependence issues. If it makes you feel better I thought the same thing what's wrong with me why am I not getting over this? Why can't I move on? Why the obsession with this man who is a piece of shit? But I couldn't help myself I was/am addicted
becsta777
becsta777's picture
Sick of it
Yeah, I remember with any narcs I was involved with, that I liked playing the game with them, the control game - when I was in control and had the power - wow!! But also, a part of me knew that if they were to let me dominate them, then I would lose interest, I would lose that feeling of exhilaration... and then when it all ended, I was always destroyed, completely destroyed. They always ended things in the end - I would try and end it and they would beg me to take them back and I would go back and then they would dump me sooner or later. Wow, it was just a big old dance, we were dancing around each other... its funny how I can see now how toxic it all was. But that is how most of my relationships have been. Either I dominate the man from the start and am doing so because I don't want to be alone and there is little chance of getting hurt, or I am playing the game with the Narc. I always believed that the Narc was the 'normal' less toxic of the options, that somehow I had to learn to live with the narc, or to beat the narc and control him or whatever. I dont know if any of this makes sense, but it sure feels great to just acknowledge it for myself! xo
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture
Yup Becsta makes total sense
Yup Becsta makes total sense to me. Google narcs and codependents and many times it is referred to as a dance. In many ways I feel like I am a version of him with empathy. Its all beg game to them one where they always get to win. So they come back after a spell when you have had time to heal and are like come on let's play again and just like those people addicted to slot machines we saw ok let me try again. Just today I said to a friend… I wonder if I really would have wanted to be with him if I had conquered him. I guess ill never know. I have often said the Narc is puzzle which can never be solved yet I always keep thinking I'm gonna be the one to solve it. Kinda NARCY Huh? I am married to a man that is very laid back. He is not at all a wimp nor a control freak. He asserts himself when necessary. There are many times where I take to much control and he says no sick of it we are not doing it this way and he has no problem putting me in my place when necessary. The difference is he doesn't do it all day everyday. Sometimes what goes on between the narc and I is like to toddlers who can't play nice. He says sick of it you aren't the boss of me and I say yes I am and he says no your not and I keep saying yes I am and finally he says ha I'm not playing with you anymore. Hahaha I'm not your friend.
becsta777
becsta777's picture
Sick of it - totally
I felt like I was the mirror of him except with empathy...I havent said this to anyone because they wouldnt understand and it sounds cliched, but I felt like we were two halves of the same person. We were made of the same stuff. It hurt so much when he just discarded me, because it was almost like me discarding me, if you know what I mean. I couldnt understand how he could just forget about this part of himself - ME! I felt like I was going to die. And I often asked myself while we were together if I would want him, if we were just a normal couple or whatever. I tried to imagine him hanging with me and my friends, and I just couldnt. I just knew he would seem shallow and silly to my friends and I'd be forced to acknowledge it myself. Thats how I sort of knew it was a doomed relationship anyway. I was already addicted then, but I knew it would never work. I think I'd been in that many narcy relationships by then that I could sort of sense where it was heading. Thats also why I fought back in the end which is why I think he discarded me. Really, he was HOT, but he was kind of dumb too, often vacuous, and he made really, really dumb jokes that I would laugh at because I was trying to charm him back. He really wanted to appear to be this sophisticated person, and I kind of enabled this by telling him how special he was and not correcting him when he mispronounced words or did really dumb things. Dont get me wrong, he was a total asshole to me and it got worse and worse in a typical narc-victim scenario order. When I had my child prematurely and broke down and actually needed someone, had no energy for defences, thats when he really tore me up, he literally went for my throat and tore it out- a massive psychic wounding. I wasnt actually conscious of any of this really, that I was trying to control. I could feel him trying to control me but I wasnt worried because I was actually aware of it. Thank you so much Sick of it - i feel like I've been set free! A huge weight has been lifted from my shoulders! This codependence thing explains so much about everything and also explains why I still feel I love him even though he's a dick. I guess I feel that the love I feel for him is actually for myself... Big, big love to you xoxoxo
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture
Yes but...
RE: I dont think that is the case with everyone on this board with some though I do think it absolutely rooted in codependence. They(the narcs) see they good version of themselves in the codependent. They see themselves with feelings. I know I have felt very Narcisistic at times regarding the whole situation. Damn I wanted him to behave! I wanted him to do what I wanted him to do! I read somewhere today, and I don't know if I saved it and now Im upset because it explained it well and at the moment I absorbed it - hope I find it but will try to express what I read accurately... After a situation like this w/a narc...this woman was questioning...am I a narc? Cause she started acting all crazy and taking on the behaviors. It was a result of the TRAUMA that caused her to act out...those narc behaviours yes, can become FULL blown in us as victims, but WE are not narcs, it's just that the trigger causes our "normal" narc tendencies to go on ovedrive as in a way a means of protection...eventually it levels off...
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture
yes. I think that is normal
yes. I think that is normal with all victims but many just move on once they have discovered what and who they are once they have had time to digest and process it they take action to remove themselves. I am referring to people who continually go back or have the urge to contact or stay involved with the Narc. I believe those situations are rooted in codpendence. For me its about control. I didnt want that mofo to win. In the past I went back over and over. The feeling that I needed to save him from himself and hell that is classic codependent behavior. I am sought after in my field of work. Why? not because Im so great but because Im good at what I do plus I have the added bonus of taking on more than is my responsibility. I do that so I have all of the control. If I am being honest I love the fact that people are completely dependent upon me at my job but it also creates a tremendous amount of anxiety for me.
jen79
jen79's picture
Michelle and sick of it
Sick of it is right. Michelle you know if you are, when you imagine the following scenario and you feel thats it. For me it would have been my greatest "success", if he could have seen the loving angel in me, and I could have safed him from his being lost and living in the darkness, then he could have given up all his other women for me, cause I am so wonderful and special and made him heal. with this he would have felt bonded and dependent on me forever and he would have never looked again somewhere else to become happy, god forbid, to become happy on his own. He would have married me, and his vow would have been, you came into my life and saved me and I will always love you for that, my life without you was nothing worth. If that scenario would have made you happy, then yes, you are codependent. And if so, dont worry, 99% of women are programmed to think and hope in this way, we are all conditioned through the media and novels this way.
Susan32
Susan32's picture
Being the angel of purity
I had thought the same way about the ex-Psych professor. His birthday is on the feast day of the Exaltation of the Holy Cross, as well as the day St. Francis of Assisi received the stigmata (wounds of Christ) I thought I could convert him. Despite his constant insulting of my faith, I still went to Bible studies (without him) and Sunday Mass (without him) When a friend of mine accused me of him idolizing him, I told her that he had expected me to give up church for him. If I had been REALLY submissive, I would've given up on going to church to be with him. He insulted my faith... because Leo Tolstoy did the same thing to his wife Sofia. Leo idealized Sofia as an angel of purity, even in his final letter to her (in which he also insulted her for having basic needs, feelings, he even disrespected her after he died) She was pained when the Russian Orthodox Church excommunicated him (last year, the Russian Orthodox refused to end the excommunication, saying that Tolstoy had made Communism possible) Yet he responded ironically to it. He idealized her, claiming she had saved him, yet constantly coerced her into sex, publicly humiliated her, and made life especially difficult for her whenever she was pregnant. I dreamt of the SAME scenario with the ex-P...that I'd convert him and marry him. Bring him to Jesus. Bring him to God. In an odd way, that final D&D was healing, because I no longer have that dream. I'm not someone else's rescue mission. I'm not the ex-P's personal Jesus. Jesus is Jesus.
daisyme
daisyme's picture
chiming in...
am loving this discussion and hope its okay to chime in midstream. i'm a case of "lifetime supply" where i've continually taken him back again and again, obliterating myself emotionally and financially in the process. instead of seeing his behavior for what it was (and running the other direction), i always went back for more. for me, its also about control and because i wanted to win. so...if i could prove to him how special i am and how much i love him by doing all these things for him, i could save him from his demons. he would somehow see the light and we would "live happily forever". (cripes - what a fantasy, but in all honesty, that's where i was/am at). i needed him to need me (so that i could control him) by "helping" him and i think that might be related to being codependent, yea? yikes - am i a codependent N addict? yes! bought some books on codependence years ago but put them away each time after we got back together. Now, after being D&Ded for the umpteenth time, its time to dust off those books! sick of it - totally recognize myself in what you mentioned about being sought after in your field of work. interesting stuff. ps. thank you for these insightful conversations. am new to this forum and it rocks!!
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture
Daisyme
I meant to respond earlier but forgot sorry. Chime in anytime sister! you never know when something you say could really help someone else!
jen79
jen79's picture
Sick of it
you got it right. When you demand needs and desires, you begin releasing your inner narcissism that supresed for so long for being a nice person for example for so long, and then he will D&D you, cause you are not his mirror anymore for the light he is chasing. But its also that you demand from him, what you need to give yourself. When you say, why the hell doesnt he want to see me again, why doesnt he love me, how could he hurt me and reject me so much. Thats where you have to look at, you are talking to yourself here. There is where the key to your emotional freedom lies.
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture
Jen
you got it right. When you demand needs and desires, you begin releasing your inner narcissism that supresed for so long for being a nice person for example for so long, and then he will D&D you, cause you are not his mirror anymore for the light he is chasing. But its also that you demand from him, what you need to give yourself. When you say, why the hell doesnt he want to see me again, why doesnt he love me, how could he hurt me and reject me so much. Thats where you have to look at, you are talking to yourself here. There is where the key to your emotional freedom lies. Okay, I understand the first part with the questioning and answering...in essence, whatever questions you ask, you then answer them from what it is you need? If I'm wrong on that - please clarify... BUT, and I've been thinking about this myself trying to figure it all out... For me - I come from a place where I believe my core foundation was syrofoam instead of concrete...and through the years, I've done some work on that. I have been alone and I've grown to be okay alone...longest stint ten years. Now, you say: When you demand needs and desires, you begin releasing your inner narcissism that supresed for so long for being a nice person for example for so long, and then he will D&D you, cause you are not his mirror anymore for the light he is chasing. And we all know that when Narcs see "humans" they run...LOL HOWEVER, you use the word demand...and I think that is a problem right there - I think that we've been brainwashed to believe that EXPRESSING our needs and making them known is a no-no and I think that is crap. Not what you are saying is crap, but what we as women have been conditioned to believe. WE have needs period. Some needs we do fill ourselves and need to fill ourselves BUT it is not out of the realm of HEALTHY self esteem to have expectations. NO, no one can fill every need - BUT when you say...why do you prefer texting as opposed to...whatever...you know what...DAMN skippy, texting isn't good enough and if you are EXPRESSING your need - that's what you're doing and one's partner is either empathetic to that or not and is gonna "meet that demand" or "expectation" or "need" or whatever if they give a fig about you. We get why the narc runs...I get why the narc runs, not questioning that point...but if I'm sharing my body, my soul, my finances, my energy, my love, my feelings, and all that good stuff - yes, you are going to have to meet my needs on a lot of levels. Co-dependency is a factor in relationships, I don't necessarily agree with that label...BECAUSE, then, what exactly is the term for a non co-dependent and if we're just operating on self then why the heck be in a relationship? I don't mean that someone has to be the center of our universe...yes, you go out with friends, you have interests, you have a life of your own...but we're not two separate planets and when I say hey Charlie, you're slacking off now I'm labeled needy and co-dependent. And with this statement: But its also that you demand from him, what you need to give yourself. When you say, why the hell doesnt he want to see me again, why doesnt he love me, how could he hurt me and reject me so much. Thats where you have to look at, you are talking to yourself here. There is where the key to your emotional freedom lies. I am getting the feeling that to a certain degree, yes, the focus is on the self, but not in a way that validates the right to have needs. "DEMAND" that is the word that isn't sitting right. We all have expectations that we expect to be met and within reason in a healthy relationship SHOULD be met. I just made this statement to the Narc the other day when I flat out told him, you tried to brainwash me into thinking that the little things I asked you for were some outrageous expectation. It is normal to want to spend time with your Significant other...it is normal to have certain basic expectation...these guys are walking disasters of selfishness! So in essence, what this is saying to me is that everytime I had the expectation of spending time with him - I should spend time with myself? Then why the heck am I wasting time with him...I can have quality time by myself and be single!...I'm choosing that now, but if I were in a relationship...? why the hell doesnt he want to see me again, why doesnt he love me. I think here, what one needs to think is, this dude isn't demonstrating love in his actions, he isn't invested on the same level I am - so do I jet or do I stay...I'm not going to question the why...and then say it's because I need to love myself more...no, this guy is operating on self and I need to get out cause this isn't healthy and I deserve more...it's not a reflection of me to expect to be loved...that is nothing to be shameful of...we have been conditioned and brainwashed that we shouldn't have Needs!!!! And we have EVERY right to have needs. Babies who aren't nurtured studies show DIE from lack of nurturing! It is a basic HUMAN need to want love and affection. So the key to emotional freedom for me lies in knowing that I have every right to have needs - some rational, some not so rational, but in dealing with people that have a disorder of this magnitude...I'd have to be a robot in order to survive...
jen79
jen79's picture
Michelle
I read your post again. The list exercise is ONLY about getting intouch with yourelf and your needs and starting to make yourself happy while being alone. Its not about that you should not have standards in a relationship, not expressing desires and emotions. If you dont mind, you just broke NC, and I see you are still angry at him and you have every right to do so. This whole threat is about forgiving and starting to make yourself happy and getting intouch with yourself. Its not about the narc and the relationship directly. Hugs
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture
Actually
No, I'm not angry at him at all. I completely understand how he can't control who and what he is. The pain is there because it was a violation... I too see him very much as a victim... Despite what a danger he is not only to me, but to anyone who walks in his path. If you read about the NC you will note that for me, it was to confirm what I suspected because on a certain level, I wondered about this... Moreover, about a month and a half ago, I was actually overboard on "sympathy" trying to see his "human side" and very high on the empathy scale for how much of a victim he was...just as sick as say a cancer patient who had no real control over their illness... Even argued what is the distinction between mental illness and physical illness illness is illness and these poor souls can't help themselves...and I got about 70 something responses telling me otherwise... So essentially, I am genuinely CONFUSED and am open to whatever means and methods are available. So this was never about calling the Narc evil... But I was trying to get clarification...you mention things like for example the text message...and I'm not criticizing what you are choosing because you have to deal with YOU...*and I can't see that post in this screen so I keep clinging to what of it I can remember so please bear with me* I don't think you're understanding me in that when doing this, it would seem that you have to be careful because for example with the text messaging thing... You have a right to say, hey, this text messaging sucks cause I'm worth more...and that doesn't make me needy or empty, or incomplete - I'm demanding respect, and to be considered worth more than a darn text message... Do you follow where I'm coming from? Forgiving is one thing, but sugar coating and then compounding certing things back onto ourselves in the name of forgiveness?...Sounds like re-victimization of the self on CERTAIN points...on CERTAIN thoughts...and that is where I'm trying to get the clarity. I could say...Why won't you spend time with me? and answer: I need to feel close to somebody...so then am I understanding this to mean that I should then say: SELF if you want to feel close to someone, feel close to yourself?...then this would be more an exercise in self exploration to find how the inner self is working...? Is it to gain a greater awareness on how we "manipulated" to get OUR needs met? Is that the purpose?
jen79
jen79's picture
Michelle
I understand where you are coming from, but again, the list isnt about talking your needs down. YOu can also use the list and the question and then create a list of your wants and needs in a relationship. For example. I dont like texts, I want real conversation with my partner. Or I want a man that wants to see me and be with me. The list is not about talking the needs down, its about realizing what your needs ARE. We are on the same boat here, ok? So the list can be used on different layers, getting intouch with your needs, so you give it to yourself, AND knowing what you really want in a future relationship. BUT, there is but here, I know now, asking these question someone is itself a red flag, I dont want never ever again a relationship where I have to explain and ask for that, he either does these things in the list anyway, or he isnt for me. I hope that clarifies the misunderstanding.
jen79
jen79's picture
Michelle
The list isnt about having no expectation from others. I say have them, as high as possible, dont settle for less, and express and demand in a healthy way. This list and the issue here is, I WAS UNHAPPY CAUSE HE DIDNT MET MY NEEDS. And I am waiting now since 1 and half year that he does, and of course he didnt. Its only about realizing what I can do for myself now alone, I am not going to wait till the next boy comes around, till I start to be happy again, but that is exactly how I felt and what I was doing. And I was doing it all my life. If you didnt do that. Then you dont have the same problem as I had, and then you dont need the list of course. Its about becoming passioned about my own life alone. Alone. I never did that before, and maybe some others here have the same problem. And I know, when I am a happy person on my own, I will keep my partner of the hook, and it wont be that needy thing anymore, that I always had.