am I allowed to post an email from him?

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Feb 17 - 11PM (Reply to #21)
quietude (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Barbara

Thanks...You know I learned most of it from you!! :)) Reneek, you should really search for those threads that Barbara mentioned...they are hilarious.
Feb 17 - 10PM (Reply to #4)
Piscesdream
Piscesdream's picture

Hmmm...he expresses a lot of

Hmmm...he expresses a lot of of narcissistic needs in that email. I mean, openly expressed a lot of his own narcissism. But he definitely doesn't see it as narcissism. He sees it as a basic human feeling.
Feb 17 - 10PM (Reply to #5)
reneek
reneek's picture

you go it

that is the scary part --- for years, I've gotten emails like this and I wouldn't understand why he couldn't be responsible for his own feelings, why everything was external and how and why someone else could have so much control over him or at least he could state it that way to control them. Now, I look at this and just laugh -- the whole thing is about him and his needs --- the whole thing, but he doesn't see that because he expressed his desire to feel good about himself by being good to me -- LOL When I reject this stuff he throws horrible things in my direction about my cruelty and lack of compassion.

a woman learning to love again

Feb 17 - 10PM (Reply to #6)
Piscesdream
Piscesdream's picture

Yeah, and here's another

Yeah, and here's another funny thing. If you were to hit reply and then hit send. He'd read it and think you were the same thing (selfish)- but about you!
Feb 17 - 10PM (Reply to #7)
reneek
reneek's picture

LOL

You got it. If I mirror him in anyway it freaks him out.

a woman learning to love again

Feb 17 - 10PM (Reply to #8)
MsVulcan500
MsVulcan500's picture

I've co-parented.

I've co-parented with a normal person, and it only works to the benefit of the children if you BOTH put the children first. We did this for years, and it worked with cooperation and compromise on both sides. However, and this is a big however, you are not dealing with a normal person who is willing to put your daughter's needs above his own. So, you need to stick to your guns and make the best life you can for her on your own as much as possible. I think he'll tire of the responsibility of parenting and accountability to you in a short time anyway. I did like how he said you could be a better mom and he could be a great dad. Like he's already really good, and you're just OK. LOL
Feb 17 - 11PM (Reply to #17)
reneek
reneek's picture

LOL

he also tried to use myself against me ... for months I've been begging him to work together and cooperate to create a better place in the world for her ... this email was pure manipulation. I do feel as though he felt a lot of emotion in it because I ain't giving him what he needs ... what his mommy gives him ... ego stroking, no boundaries and the right to do what ever the blank he feels like doing without consequences

a woman learning to love again

Feb 17 - 11PM (Reply to #9)
reneek
reneek's picture

LOL

he also tried to use myself against me ... for months I've been begging him to work together and cooperate to create a better place in the world for her ... this email was pure manipulation. I do feel as though he felt a lot of emotion in it because I ain't giving him what he needs ... what his mommy gives him ... ego stroking, no boundaries and the right to do what ever the blank he feels like doing without consequences

a woman learning to love again

Feb 17 - 11PM (Reply to #10)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

his child is just a prop to him

stop begging him for something he's INCAPABLE of DEMAND: sole custody supervised visitation MINIMAL contact, in writing only! he'll get tired of it when his kids starts telling him what a bozo he is... they almost all do. nice job on 'WHAT HE SAYS vs WHAT HE REALLY MEANS' quietude.. you didn't need me at all! ;) be sure to count up the "I... ME... MY..." statements. Big giveaway I HOPE YOU DIDN'T RESPOND! make sure your lawyer gets a copy of this piece of ME ME ME sh*t. He squeezed a lot of PATHOLOGY into one email: http://www.outofthefog.net/CommonBehaviors/Blaming.html http://www.outofthefog.net/CommonBehaviors/CircularConversations.html http://www.outofthefog.net/CommonBehaviors/DomesticTheft.html http://www.outofthefog.net/CommonBehaviors/EmotionalBlackmail.html http://www.outofthefog.net/CommonBehaviors/Entitlement.html http://www.outofthefog.net/CommonBehaviors/FalseAccusations.html http://www.outofthefog.net/CommonBehaviors/LackOfConscience.html http://www.outofthefog.net/CommonBehaviors/NoWinScenarios.html http://www.outofthefog.net/CommonBehaviors/LiesLiarsAndLying.html http://www.outofthefog.net/CommonBehaviors/Scapegoating.html http://www.outofthefog.net/CommonBehaviors/SelfVictimization.html http://www.outofthefog.net/CommonBehaviors/ThoughtPolicing.html ~~~~~~~~~ The world is a dangerous place, not only because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. - Albert Einstein Visit My Info. Website for Abuse Victims
Feb 18 - 6AM (Reply to #11)
reneek
reneek's picture

will check out the links

I do have sole custody and right now we are trying to minimize visits -- I don't have enough yet for supervised, but we have a GAL doing an investigation soon and we will see if they can turn up enough to make it supervised. If the court ordered supervised visits -- he would walk away because he would be so shamed and that would be awesome !! I didn't count up the I, me, my statement, but the minute I got it I just laughed because it was so twisted and all about him and it didn't even address our discussion. It was a few weeks ago and I did respond -- it was long -- but it did not address any of the emotional junk .... here was my response .... though I get it ... no more. I am trained to not ignore -- reprogramming myself !! Some background -- the argument was over clothing for my daughter's trip to Florida. We live in a cold climate, my daughter grew 2.5 inches since the summer and her clothes simply don't fit -- I told him that he would need to get her some clothes for HIS trip to Florida (remember the one we went to court over because I did not consent) and he told me it was my job because he gave me child support -- then he told he would go get the clothes, but I would need to pay him back -- we had a fight about that since I thought it was ridiculous and he sent the email above -- Here was my reply: I really don't know how to respond to this. I can't give you what you want and it isn't because I lack compassion for you -- it is because you need to resolve a lot of these things inside yourself. If you felt confident inside yourself nothing I can do or say would have any impact on you. The terrible things you say to me barely penetrate because I do feel good inside. I don't sit and whine about how I feel about this situation -- I just don't. The clothes thing for me get me very very very angry because I feel it is completely and utterly disrespectful of me and my time. In addition, I think it demonstrates a lack of maturity on your end (I am not trying to sound mean -- it is how I feel and what I believe). If you want to be respected and be seen as an equal with me when you make a decision for your time with S particularly without working with me or consulting me in any way -- you need to be responsible for that decision from beginning to end and not delegate out the grunt work to achieve your goal. To merely make a decision of what you want to do and then expect someone else to do the "work" and/or also pay for things to make that goal achievable seems so irresponsible and immature to me -- I can't help think that. It also angers me that you know I have every minute scheduled out and accounted for and shopping for clothes and shoes takes an entire weekend afternoon and takes away from my quality time with S -- tell me why I should do that when it is your trip with her. It doesn't make sense, particularly when you have so much free time and freedom with your time. Following through is part of making the decision and truly if you didn't whine and you did the right thing you would gain my respect more and more, but you whine about everything and than if I show no sympathy for the whining you whine more and tell me I have no compassion -- it isn't that -- I just want you to grow up and be more mature and more responsible and I've been saying this since you were mopping about right after Sophie was born -- I am tired, oh so tired, of the whining. It is this behavior where you lose respect more and more. Buying S clothes for a special trip with you is special for both of you -- it doesn't cost much money to buy her summer clothes -- 3 outfits -- you can get them for $25 -- cheap summer shoes for that short of time can run about $15. The irony is you see me as "forcing" you to do something when actually it is you who is trying to force me to something by threatening not to put S in appropriate clothes if I do not run your errands for you and provide her with clothes for your vacation. That is bullying and that is force because you are using my love, concern and care for S to try to get me to do what you should be doing. I can't cater to you -- don't you get it? If you want to be an equal -- act as an equal -- step up -- just shut up for once and just do it without causing an entire drama over it. So this is how I feel. My mother is giving me clothes to save me time and money ... most importantly to save me time ... she gets it and she isn't even the child's father -- she isn't even the one who made a unilateral decision to do something she wanted to do -- and then there's you -- you made a decision without any consultation with me and forced me to go to court on this issue and then you get part of what you hoped for which is fine and you expect me to go out and run the errands for you to make that happen and if I don't run the errands you want me to pay you for it -- isn't that petty - I send you with food every time she goes to you -- do you want me to start billing you -- I send you with wipes and other things do you want me to have you pay for it? That would be stupid and so is asking me for the money you will spend to cloth her for 3 days. Don't you get it? Anyway, I am sorry this stuff really infuriates me and no you will not see compassion when I feel taken advantage of, threatened, bullied, game-played and manipulated. I will only provide Sophie with clothes that I have in her wardrobe that fit her her -- if the clothes are not weather appropriate for the decision you made -- you need to be her father -- you say you want to be a good father -- here is your chance. This is part of it and doing it without whining makes me see you a father who just does his job. The other thing is I have no shoes for her for the summer and I do not want the good and very expensive Merrell shoes I have used as beach shoes -- you need to step up. You just need to step up. Shoe shopping is a big deal -- it takes time and energy and truthfully, I do not have that kind of time before your trip. i will get you her shoe size. Go to Children's Place or Carter's and you can get shoes for something like $15 it isn't a big deal when you aren't taking a 2 year old or trying to find child care to do it faster. Sorry, I am not responding to all your emotions -- I just can't give you what you need there. I can and will respect you as father when this whining stuff stops and you just act like her Dad and do what is necessary for her care. It will happen naturally. I really would've respected you more if you did this for yourself and didn't make it a "deal."

a woman learning to love again

Feb 19 - 5PM (Reply to #16)
AnotherPath
AnotherPath's picture

End the dance

End the dance Reneek.......... for your own sanity. Don't give him all this attention. Treat it as business with no emotion when you have to write to him otherwise this won't end. When you become distant they lose their power and I found when I did this my healing took on a new meaning.

Ending the dance

Feb 18 - 2PM (Reply to #12)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

what they say vs. what they really mean

http://www.lisaescott.com/forum/2009/03/27/what-they-say-vs-what-they-really-meant reneek - you should NEVER respond with anything more than one line. "If you have problems with buying her clothing for a trip you are taking her on, please contact my attorney - Name, address, phone; not me." Then forward everything to your attorney and ask her to respond. NO MORE LONG LETTERS!!! NO MORE NO MORE NO MORE!!!!!!!!!!! ~~~~~~~~~ The world is a dangerous place, not only because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. - Albert Einstein Visit My Info. Website for Abuse Victims
Feb 19 - 10AM (Reply to #13)
itreallyisabouthim
itreallyisabouthim's picture

That e-mail made me gag.

That e-mail made me gag. Interesting to me because my N is not very articulate and this is probably what he would express if he could define his thoughts and word them more succinctly. I think quietude nailed it, particularly about the blackmail. He makes me sick. Very condescending and patronizing. The major thread I heard was something like "If you'd just hold still and take it and give me everything I want, I could pretend to be an amazing Dad. You are preventing me from fully fulfilling my Amazing Dad hologram and I wish you'd stop knowing who I really am so I could get back to my show."
Feb 19 - 11AM (Reply to #14)
reneek
reneek's picture

itreallyisabouthim

Funny -- you said it well. And my N is very articulate -- speaks 3.5 languages, reads a lot, writes well and he is a doctor -- but he is an absolute moron. He hates me because I am also articulate, smart and get his crap faster than most -- and he can't "pretend" with me. Go on match.com ... search for fixedwingcraft ... you will see how articulate he is. He looks like a dream come true, but he will be someone else's worst nightmare when the next victim steps up.

a woman learning to love again

Feb 19 - 5PM (Reply to #15)
AnotherPath
AnotherPath's picture

So similar to what my exN

So similar to what my exN wrote and how he wanted to portray himself as liking women. This part " I love working overseas when I can-women need us so much there." scarey stuff, because in reality he should have "I hate women and I'm dangerous" tattooed on his forehead

Ending the dance