How many women can honestly say they didn't have a glitch in them

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#1 Jul 19 - 6PM

AnotherPath

How many women can honestly say they didn't have a glitch in them

I ask this in a completely compassionate way. Because on my healing bloody slow journey I've come to realise that there was a glitch in me that made me want to stay with him. I know they can manipulate to socks off you BUT from my personal experience I often wondered after the break up there were times with him that I clearly should have left, but hung on. I didn't have the personal power to immediately say "I don't like how you're being so I don't want to be around you" end of.

And to be totally honest, my healing could have been done before I met him but I didn't see it so that's why I was susceptible to him. There was something in me that allowed him in, there was a glitch in me. Narc mother. I'm seeing it all now, and until I heal those wounds I know another narc will show up. I'm doing my healing now from childhood, at least being smashed to bits by him made me do this. So I did get something from him in the end, a massive lesson in my own stuff. Do you know what I mean? Is there any woman here that can honestly say they were totally strong in their relationships and boundaries as children, that they had the capability to say early on "I don't need your behaviour in my life so I'm out"? Did you have NO boundaries as a child? Were you in a place as a child were abuse or control happened and you couldn't stand up at that point and say, this is not acceptable. Because what I'm discovering is that I had none of this. Narc mother would do what she wanted and we all had to take it and pretend it didn't happen. I know this ignoring this made me somehow feel it was acceptable so for me, made me a sitting duck for a narc as an adult. I want to get to a place now, where I can stand up for myself in any kind of relationship and say on the lines of "you know what, I don't want to be around your abusive behaviour, it's not acceptable to me" so that I can exit out right there and then. No mulling over, just exit. Just wanted to know how many women here have an experience in childhood where they had to accept unacceptable behaviour by adults, because I think here lies the link to the narc. I'm also convinced if we don't heal this we will always accept narcs of some sort. Just putting it out.

#2 Jul 21 - 3AM

stillsinging

the link between childhood

the link between childhood experiences, lack of voice and no boundaries as an adult is so true and just what i'm working thru and only realised recently - great thread. My mother was controlling and my father absent, though both kind and they loved me, but it's that childhood wound that i need to heal now because I too am a sitting duck, always have been for narc bosses, dysfunctional relationships of every sort, addictions. and i'm scared i've passed it on to my kids albeit in a different way. in a way i'm grateful to my current narc for bringing all this to my attention, the glitch in me. i went to a pyschic recently who said that she saw me as a wounded, lonely child who felt her wishes were ignored. that really hit the nail on the head, made me feel so sad i know it was right, i'm going back to that place and trying to give meself the attention and voice i did n't have then. god it's taken a long time to realise all this!

#3 Jul 21 - 12AM

enoughalready

Anotherpath

Great thread. This hits home and yes, I feel there's definitely a correlation. And because this opens deep wounds again, I can only agree with you. My upbringing was very strict, living w/ a narcissist father and mother.

#4 Jul 20 - 3PM

seeingthelight

This is a fantastic post

This is a fantastic post AnotherPath and a great thread. It has really stuck a chord with me and got me thinking. Thank you :-) xo

#5 Jul 20 - 1PM

Mariline

You cannot imagine how much

You cannot imagine how much sense this thread makes to me. Thank you all.

#6 Jul 20 - 12PM

sweetsamm

not daddy's girls

I barely had a relationship with my father..he was around,but paid no attention to the girls..there were two girls and two boys..he still idolizes my one brother and thinks my little brother who's 27 is 2...my sister totally thinks we've made so many bad choices in men because of the lack of attention we got from our father...i was always jealous of 'daddy's girls'..

#7 Jul 20 - 12PM (Reply to #15)

Used

looks

my ex husband was 50 when i divorced him, tall, blue eyed and blonde and very good looking[well on the outside] when i saw the woman he is know with, it may sound unkind, but isaid to my daughter, he can do better than her, with his looks he realy could, she he doesnt care what she looks like as long as she is filling his need, when asked by someone who saw them together, who was she, he replyed, some old tart, all good stuff, yet when i was married to him, he would tell me what to and so on, what a pratt he is

#8 Jul 20 - 12PM

NinjaGirl

My father

My father had a lot of issues. It was a short courtship between him and my mom before they got married, and she didn't know it, but she was already pregnant with me when they got married. When I was two, she had had enough of his abuse and divorced him. He had visitation rights, and molested me when I was young. After my mom found out, I didn't have any further contact with him (my choice AND the court's order). So essentially I grew up without a father. My mom is the most amazing woman I know. She's strong, doesn't take crap from anyone, and always put me first, but she isn't very affectionate in a "normal" mom way. She's more like a momma bear. LOL So I think my issues stem from feelings of abandonment from my father, because he would often disappear to escape paying child support, and also from my mom in a way, because I was always trying to earn her affection and approval. What I didn't realize until recently was that neither of them will ever change. My father and I do talk now, but it's a very cautious relationship on my part, and my mom thinks the world of me, but doesn't coo over me or constantly tell me how awesome I am. She expects me to know it and not need her approval. So now I'm at the point where I realize that I have to tone down my expectations of other people. I can't turn other people into who I want them to be. If I love them, I have to accept them for who they are. If they aren't good for me, they aren't allowed into my life anymore. And I've learned to focus on myself more, forgive myself more, and not expect perfection from myself. I'm working on these things, and it's going to take a long time, but I'll get there. :)

#9 Jul 20 - 6PM (Reply to #13)

Aliveagain

So true: So now I'm at the

So true: So now I'm at the point where I realize that I have to tone down my expectations of other people. I can't turn other people into who I want them to be. If I love them, I have to accept them for who they are. If they aren't good for me, they aren't allowed into my life anymore. And I've learned to focus on myself more, forgive myself more, and not expect perfection from myself.

#10 Jul 20 - 9AM

ClusterF

Glitches

I have done so much reading about narcissism/psychopathy this spring that I don't remember where I read this bit of info but it rang true with me. My mother has some N tendencies, and I was the youngest of three kids. I didn't have much of a voice at all as a child and what I read suggested that if you don't have a voice as a child, it makes Ns seems very attractive to you because they are so good at pretending to actually care what you have to say. I don't think it's at all the only reason I am/was a target but I can really relate to that one. Then of course after the first or second N relationship, you start to normalize the behavior and the deconstruction of self-worth begins.

#11 Jul 20 - 8AM

helldweller

AnotherPath--the glitch in me

Yes. I had bulimia for ten years when I was a young woman (college/grad school and beyond). I was treated for it over a period of six years, with medication and weekly therapy. Turns out it's not a body thing but a desperate attempt to control one's life. Turns out it was my older brother who was leading me to do this stuff, as I was not allowed to express my opinion about anything, make my own choices, etc. My dad died when I was eighteen and he became head of the house, so to speak. I supposed that's when the trouble started. He was a real bully. Well when I got on top of the bulimia, it came with me learning to stand up to him. As you can imagine, I have very little contact with him these days. We are civil to each other and we certainly love each other, but let's just say that when there is a dinner at his house, I usually send my daughters without me, that sort of thing. Well, you would think that battle would have made me narc-proof, but as you know I then married a man who said he wanted to settle down but just kept living his single sort of life, and also complaining about everything in ours. Though i found out later that he wasn't an N, it was definitely all about him. I think I felt I had no choice but to stay with him, or to go back to him the many times I did leave. "He won't let me leave" was something I said a lot, knowing it made no sense to anyone. I think part of that was true, as all narc-lovers know, but obviously I COULD have left if I had what it took inside me to rise up against in sufficiently. Enter the Narc after ten years of horror with my husband, and it was for him, for the N, that I finally divorced. Talk about out of the frying pan and into the fire! I've thought lately, like you said, that this person came into my life to shake the stupidity out of me, to wake me up to how insanely I've accepted these kinds of men in my life. At least, I hope this is my last lesson.

#12 Jul 20 - 6PM (Reply to #9)

Aliveagain

I completely agree re this

I completely agree re this being a wake-up call. I have always let people get away with BS. This is the way I was raised - being 'nice' was equated with being subservient. I was never subservient but because of that I felt guilt. It was never implicitly demanded by my parents or family just a belief I felt was projected onto me/I witnessed. My parents are very good people and my father in particular takes a lot of shit. I guess the underlying belief I felt was enforced was "If someone treats you poorly, you must have done something to deserve it, find out what that is, seek to understand and fix it". Holy crap, I think I just struck a cord with myself. That's why I keep going around in my head trying to figure this stuff out. I want to fix it and I know I can't but that's why I can't let go. I always seem to land fixer-up-er-ra men. To help them to help themselves. I remember thinking in the courting phases with my N "Jesus, this guy has baggage, he's a trouble soul...I COULD help him but do I really want that headache? No"...fastforward a few more dates. Hooked. "In love". Commonsense gone. New perspective? "I can make this work". These are control issues. Anyone read eat, pray love? Brilliant book. Themes of this nature run through her book. Esp. when she talks of her lover post divorce.

#13 Jul 20 - 7PM (Reply to #10)

Lisa E. Scott

Aliveagain

"Holy crap, I think I just struck a cord with myself. That's why I keep going around in my head trying to figure this stuff out." I'm so glad you're starting to make sense of it all. We really need to give form and structure to the chaos in our head. By being here and talking/writing about it, we give ourselves that gift. Sometimes without even realizing it! :) xoxo

#14 Jul 19 - 10PM

lynn61

anotherpath

thank you so much for addressing this incredibly important issue! just this week on my path of healing i am coming to grips with my own inability to stand up to my N in the past. i have had some very painful realizations. some in which i have had to confess and ask for forgiveness from my adult children for the things i did. i am so glad though, to actually feel and to be able to pass what i am learning on to my them. it is so healing even though it is painful to have this hindsight. thanks again for bringing this up!!

really??

#15 Jul 19 - 9PM

NancyM

Boundaries

I think this is a very important topic and each of us do need to address our own selves in the process of healing. For those that did not grow up with Narc parent/s, most of these things are probably largely to do with the socialization of women, could be bullying at school...any number of issues. For us who had Narc parents...for me it was my father, I think ours are much closer to home and I notice a lot of us are serial N attractors. My Father was the biggest meanest N I have ever met. His supply was that everyone feared him, his brute strength, and his quick agile mind which he used to totally annihilate a person's self esteem. I used to watch in fascination how he could build a person up, and almost predict the exact moment when he would deliver the killer blow. Everyone crumbled before him. He worked in a blue collar "tough man"industry, and I only ever met one man that stood against him. Actually they became friends because Dad only respected those that took him on. We lived in a small town, and each time a new senior sergeant was allocated to the area, they were brought around to our home to be introduced to Dad. Pacifying the monster, they were all shit scared of him and we could never go to them for help. Of course it fed his supply and reputation that became legendary where we lived. One of the things I learned as ACON was to never show fear, it did not matter what you felt, always stand your ground. This has probably got me into as much trouble that it has gotten me out of. He actually taught us to stand up for ourselves and each other. He taught us a little too well, at 14 I threatened to kill him if he ever touched Mum again. He never did again because he believed me. But one thing I never learned was how to love and care for myself. Affection was a sign of weakness in the home where I grew up, and I was starved for it. It was only after having my daughter did I find out what it meant to love unconditionally, and without pause. So yes, I had some issues...bad behavior was a normal way of life, it was only about how well you danced in the rain. I guess a lot of it contributed to my survival, but the paradox is that I may have never fallen into it in the first place, but for my childhood.

Nevergoback

#16 Jul 20 - 11AM (Reply to #5)

Bodhi

YES... boundaries!

I think you hit the nail on the head for all us ACONS. My biggest lesson in my relationship with the exN was that I let him trample all over my boundaries because deep down I didn't feel I deserved much. My dad is a narc and my mom is an ACOA... they were and continue to be very self absorbed and my needs were never met. Their lesson to me very early on was that I just wasn't as important. My relationship with my ExN was just reliving all those childhood wounds and relationship patterns that I learned from my parents codependent marriage. I thought I had resolved all these issues... but after my breakup I realized how low my self esteem really was and how much work I had to do. I knew things weren't right in our relationship but I continually let him test me because I somehow thought I was not good enough. I think anyone can end up in a relationship with a narc... but I think those with strong boundaries and high self esteem won't stay long.

#17 Jul 20 - 2PM (Reply to #6)

MovinOnUp

Family Of Origin

Bodhi, my childhood was similar to yours except I was a middle kid who had sick siblings on either side of me so it became second nature to me to sacrafice my needs for others, and meet any needs I might have by myself. Looking back, I see that the only attention I got from my mom during my teens was critisism. She was a workaholic blur and I was raised by a brother four years older than myself so when I hit my teens I was much older than my actual age... and very independent. My mother zoomed in on my existance at this point and we knocked heads quite a bit because she couldn't fathom why I was so old for my age. I moved out at nineteen, was self supporting and never took a dime from them. I've fought against the co-dependency my whole life. I was the only kid of four that wanted to grow up, leave the nest and become independent. I sensed the cluster F since I was a child -- but couldn't put it into words because I could never get anyone to validate that what I saw wasn't healthy. Healthy kids don't cling to the nest, and healthy parents don't encourage them to do so. And this was really confusing because my mother was a very independent woman who worked full time long before any of my friend's mothers started getting into the work force. Though I got out, I was the only one who married and had kids... and all of a sudden I had my mother's attention. She had no familiy in this country, and we lived pretty far from my Dad's family. Nobody in my life seemed to understand that my loving family was suffocating me. Deep down I knew that no adult child with a family of her own should have to feel guilty for not wanting to spend every single holiday and then some with her parents and still residing at home adult siblings... but if I broached the subject -- I was buried in guilt. So I allowed them to live vicariously through me for thirty one years. Now, people who are deriving there happiness through you... aren't compelled to want to hear that you are not happy. Till the day she died ten years ago my mom was still leaning on me to stay with my N. My husband's N family was also only a stones throw away, so I've been attemting to defend my boundaries there too, and was buried in guilt any time I did. Because my mother appeared so loving, I never really saw how controlling and manipulative she was. Family was everything to her and she reinforce my belief that my needs weren't important over and over and over again. It took me a long time to come to the conclusion that both of my parents were pretty much full of crap when it came to what family meant. My mother had no problem leaving her family and country behind to make a better life for herself. And my father rarely visited his family once we moved to another state. So they all lived through me, and I'm kinda shocked that I have any blood left to suck. But I do. And everything I felt and believed since I was a little kid has been validated. Once I read the book Boundaries and saw the word enmeshed on the page, and educated myself on PDs... I knew for certain that I am indeed the healthiest one in the bunch. But I can't seek validation through my siblings, because I'm the only one who wants to see the truth. So though co-dependency might fit to some degree -- if it does it's only because I was clubbed into submission. The hardest part for me will be getting over the fact that the mother I loved so dearly went out of her way to silence me. She didn't encourage me to stay in this relationship because of my kids, she encouraged me to stay for herself. And it is going to take a while for me to forgive her for not being here to help me cope with the fleas my children picked up, as I knew they would... and forgive myself for letting her insticts trump my own. Because my insticts were dead on every step of the way since I was a kid. I just couldn't stand up to her because deep down I feared that would mean losing her love -- something I never felt I had when I was a kid. I went from being the rebel -- to being her only "normal kid"... and the pressure was on. As far as the N husband goes, I'm lucky in the respect that I knew he was damaged and dangerous when I met him due to his abusive childhood and tour in Viet Nam. So I think I instinctivly guarded a good chunk of myself from him all along and was never really blinsided to my core because I don't think I ever believed he was capable of loving me the way I was capable of loving him. I was also lucky because I did have 3 healthy relationships prior to being sucked in by the guy that reminded me of both my brother and my father. I ended all three of those relationships amicably (sp?), and am so charmed to have letters from all three of them still in my possession. And all three of them stated that they were so happy they had a chance to know me, that they learned a lot about love from me, and they wished me nothing but the best. In other words, there wasn't an N in the bunch. lol I didn't really think much about those letters at the time, but I think over the years they haved helped me cling to the notion that I am not the crazy one. I'm very thankful that the three lovable ones took the time to sit down and write those letters after I broke up with them. It still kinda blows me away that they did. Thanks for listening. It felt really good to get some of that out. Because when I attempted to go to therapy with my N eighteen years ago -- the therapist spit out that "You teach people how to treat you." line without knowing a single thing about me or my childhood. But she knew all about his childhood which matched hers and she had no interest in how he affected me either. She just wanted me to stay with him too. You should have heard that women's gasp when I called her up a few years ago and told her that my abusive NMIL had decided to share with me the fact that my N's father was diagnoised as a Sociopath when my N was ten. She knew mine slid right past her, and she knew she sold me and my children down the river. Okay, I really am going to end this post now. Once again, I thank you for listening.

#18 Jul 19 - 8PM

Briseis

Definitely (((hugs))). My

Definitely (((hugs))). My father was some sort of NPD type, and I am sure I was conditioned by fear to put up with behavior a normal person would not tolerate. Or would find weird, creepy and unsafe. My instinct (gut instinct) was damaged. Some victims of narc had a great childhood and were just blindsided. Until you encounter a narc, and KNOW it, you are an innocent. But those people don't seem to me to have an ongoing issue with narcs in their lives. We who were raised by them have that distinction lol. All of us end up needing to take a long honest look at ourselves afterwards. It's like we lie down with dogs and end up with fleas. My low self esteem and complete lack of boundaries are what set me up. I abandoned myself fifty five times a day for seven years with him. That is MY part. I didn't do anything to hurt him, I hurt myself. I was a "bad person" to myself :( Forgiving myself is an ongoing process.

#19 Jul 19 - 7PM

Aliveagain

I think everyone battles

I think everyone battles with boundary issues. Esp. women. I think everyone has experienced some kind of poor treatment growing up - either consistently or intermittently. Yep, I think if you were a target for a narcissist once, you will be again. But you'll have your radar up and you won't take any shit this time around because you know where it will lead. We all KNOW when we're getting walked all over but we feel guilty - through programming (childhood, relationship etc) and feel as though its unfeminine to express our anger. An awesome book I read was "The nice girl syndrome" by Beverly Engel. An AMAZING read. Really recommend it. Of course there were times you SHOULD have broken up with him and didn't. That's the nature of being human though, its not a flaw in you, it makes you a good person...but you also have to be good to yourself, develop your friendship with yourself. A reliable way to address any problems with treatment you receive is to say "would I allow a friend to be treated like this". If you get stumped for words I've got the best strategy now, my friend told me to spin it back and say "Are you okay?". It works wonders. People are left in their tracks. You put ownership back where it belongs and you don't have people infringing on your rights anymore. We really do teach others how to treat us. We're conditioned as women to be flexible and over compensate for others short-comings and believe this makes us "nice". It makes us doormats. We're all of equal value. Love yourself and treat yourself well, you deserve it.

#20 Jul 19 - 10PM (Reply to #2)

Janet

My husband (prior to N/P

My husband (prior to N/P boyfriend)had some pretty strong Cerebral N tendencies. I met him when I was 23 - we quit having sex after about 6 months. But he was a kind man and we had a gentle, in many ways respectful relationship. He had a psychotic break however when he was 41. I tried to fix him for 2 1/2 years while he was in and out of psychiatric hospitals. He moved back to Germany and lived there for 5 years before killing himself. When I met N/P I was a classic N pickup. 5 years of being alone and really in want of direction and excitement in my life. We met on a plane. He was young, cute (really short and with long dreadlocks) but cute. He seemed the opposite of my tall, dark haired, intellectual husband. He was very sexy. You all know the game. So, yes I think my glitch was my marriage with a mentally ill man and years of loneliness left me looking like a deer with a bulls eye painted on my head. Peace. J

Peace. J

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