I think I figured a few things out...please let me know what you think

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#1 Jan 20 - 6PM
Happy1
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I think I figured a few things out...please let me know what you think

I have been reading "The Betrayal Bonding" book and it's very insightful.
I think I realize now that I had 2 experiences in my past that may not have helped my Trauma Bonding with my N.
My mom told me when I was 10 that my dad was not my real dad and my exhusband told me when my son was 4 months old after 11 years marriage that he was gay. I definitely don't feel trust with anyone and I do feel I as abandoned by my best friend (ex-Husand) that I thought I knew. I trusted him. I thought I handled everything really well. I didn't cry much and packed him up nicely and helped him move out. He wanted to move out immediately and had a boyfriend quickly. I think I shut off internally and was living out of my body or something. I went through all the motions but could not feel. I think it's what I had to do for survival. I don't know.
Now I'm just into this book and reading about Trauma Bonding and it's scaring the crap out of me because this is me! I'm scared to death because it says it can last a lifetime!
I always thought I was doing well. I thought I was handling my life the best I could and I somehow found the worst N my therapist has ever heard of and she's worried for me.
I'm just worried now because I am afraid of my emotions and my addiction. I will keep reading but my question is do the abusers know what they are doing to create trauma bonding and do they have it too? I noticed my N was taking medication for PTSD. Does this mean he has it too and that's why he can't stop either? This is horrible.
Happy1

Jan 21 - 1PM
blueeyes
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Yay, Happy!

This makes me happy TOO.. Hang onto yourself and ask any questions you have. I went through this "questioning" period and I almost felt like I was annoying. DO NOT make that mistake.. Asking, digging, wondering...These are all leading to recovering. Have a happy day, Happy1
Jan 21 - 12PM
Briseis
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Happy, I am so amazed at how

Happy, I am so amazed at how you are taking the bull by the horns here. You are a perfect example of taking the power back, taking charge of your recovery!! About the trauma bonding lasting your whole life? I SERIOUSLY doubt your's will . . . perhaps if a person never realizes what's happening to them? I can see that maybe lasting a lifetime. Trauma bonding is a serious blow to a person's whole self. But for you, a person who is taking responsibility to heal, who KNOWS they are experiencing trauma bonding, you can undo it with therapy and awareness. A Narc can have PTSD. ANYONE can have PTSD. Any narc or psychopath can have depression, bipolar, anxiety, whatever. They can have a regular old mental illness on top of their personality disorder. Just like they can have diabetes or cancer or a common cold. Doesn't mean a THING about their NPD. My exNarc had bipolar type 2 (a lesser type of manic depression) and took antidepressants. He was still a ferking narc. Just not as depressed and manic as he would have been without the meds lol.
Jan 21 - 12PM (Reply to #11)
Happy1
Happy1's picture

Briseis

Thank you! I guess knowledge is power right? I have been angry today thinking about everything that has happened with the Narc and as hard as no contact is, I am more determined to remain NC than ever to get over what has happened. No person has a right to play these mind games on another human being. I have always been a person to think the best of people and I guess I was naive. I feel I have changed a great deal and I don't know if it's good or bad, but I am not as gulible now and I don't know that I think the best of everyone any longer. I trust nobody unfortantely in day to day life. I truly hate my narc and will not forget the rage and hate he had for me on the way to the hospital when he broke his arm. It was all my fault. I wasn't even there and it was my fault. This was such a true eye opening moment for me. Thank you for clarifying the PTSD. I was confused seeing him on such a medication but I do know he needs to do more than take that. I really do want to get better Briseis and I want to be happy again. I know that's a battle we are in right now. I hope we all succeed very soon. Thank you! Happy1
Jan 20 - 7PM
Goldie
Goldie's picture

Happy Girl You are on your way

Happy, I am so excited for you. This is the first time I have heard you get really real and keep the focus mostly on you and NOT so much THE NARC. This is enormous growth. This is the beginning to your eventual freedom from the bondage from narc and the opening back up into the life and times of HAPPY. I'm sure those past experiences played a huge part in your relationship with N. I do not believe that this is a lifetime condition for us. What you went though with this last guy was so horrific that it has transended you into recovery and you can keep on this track and keep getting to know yourself and all the rest of the steps and eventually you can have yourself and your life back. I believe the N creates the bond to suck us in, control us, and get their needs met at our expense. I have no doubt they do know and see what they are doing and how it affects us. Do they know how to stop doing it and have a healthy relationship? No, and they don't recover. I have never seen one recover nor have any of the psychologist with whom I have consulted. The recovery is for you; not him. Your therapist said he was one of the worst Narcs she had ever seen. Happy, he is not in a trauma bond as well. You are. He is creating the trauma bond for supply. He does not feel like you do, we all know this from having read your posts for months. He has no regard for you or your feelings. He is not capable. His lack of an ability is NO reflection on you, it is his disorder. Keep up the good work and looking into you; try not to waste your time trying to figure out if he too can benefit from this new found knowledge of yours, he cannot. You do not have the same issues. The trauma bond makes you think you are the same. You are not like him and he is not like you. This post makes my day, you have no idea. I can so relate to you and am thrilled that you are reading, and going to therapy, and sharing all of your progress with all of us. This is a beautiful day. G
Jan 20 - 10PM (Reply to #4)
gettinbetter
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But Goldie isnt Part of the

But Goldie isnt Part of the N's disorder the renacting of the trauma they suffered in childhood that they just reenact in all of their relationships? The Trauma Bond is definitely the root of my problem with the N and it all started with him. I didnt have issues in relationships before or after him but I will say he did a number on me emotionally and after the first time it took a good 18 months to start pulling out of it and when I finally did wham that is when I met my husband (a great thing btw) Oh the addiction has been horrific this time! So Goldie do you think they do it on purpose?
Jan 21 - 9AM (Reply to #5)
Goldie
Goldie's picture

Excellent questions!!!

This is just a brief overview: Yes, they recreate the trauma bond, however, they recreate the trauma as it was done to them. The become the aggressor/abuser, they assume the role which puts them in control. When you are a child of abuse, there are several different ways it may play out as you become an adult. You can internalize the abuse and pain and become the victim, and play that out as an adult. You can shut it out and create a strong false exterior, and proceed as though you were never abused at all, denial of the abuse and an outward appearance of normalcy and success. You can become the pain and live with self mutilation, addictions, bad relationships, and live in a perpetual state of pain. Or... you can become the abuser the perpetrator: think child molester. Most all child molesters were molested themselves whether they admit this or not. Think batterer, most who commit violent acts towards others where abused themselves. There is the rare case of genetic disorders, however, most of the time it is environmental and biological in terms of the parent having a similar disposition in their genes thus acting out this with their own children/PD. Now this is where it gets tricky. In a trauma bond. Most likely both parties were subjected to unhealthy childhood messages and signals from their caregivers. Don’t forget, that abuse can take many forms, over indulgence is also a form of abuse, which effects the child’s internal sense of normalcy and creates entitlement, so it is not always overt. In order for the bond to become effective to both parties. One needs to assume the role as perpetrator and one assumes the role as the victim. The victim bonds with the perpetrator and assumes that he is their only hope or means for her survival. She accepts his dominance as her reality. She may even develop traits which are similar to his, thus the question. Can I become like my abuser? Yes you can. You don't truly become him, you just go along with his game plan while you are enmeshed in the bond, or you may retreat, withdraw and begin a slow internal death. The reason that it gets tricky is because there are variables. Every trauma bond has it's own unique set of rules and roles conducive to that particular drama and how it needs to be played out to fulfill the particular dynamics coming from each party. It is possible for an individual to grow up relatively unscathed by their childhood and once again if the treatment wasn’t overt, or heavy denial exists, you may not see the effects, until a particular person comes along who happens to fit the bill to a piece of dysfunction which lays dormant in you that no one else triggered up to this point. When this happens you play out the weakness in you with them. The same may be true for them. Once this happens and your vulnerabilities kick in and if not treated the condition goes from acute, the one time episode, to a chronic condition, which means you now need to play this out repeatedly until you seek treatment, the can of worms was opened in you so to speak. The success rate for treatment for the abuser, perpetrator is slim because as a child they became their abuser because the pain of the abuse was too much for them to bear and they shut down and require the control position in order to survive. They are no longer the weak vulnerable child they are now the strong controlling abuser. When this happens, something in their psyche switches off and they have left the child behind, never to return. They become stuck in the childhood faze in many aspects, however they become a man-child if you will, who is now in control and is incapable of ever allowing themselves to become vulnerable to anyone like that again. Once that door is shut, the likelihood of anyone ever regaining entrance to their true inner child is slim to nil. The victim never really did all of that, so their chances of recovery are far greater. They did not completely shut down and assume a new identify, they simply remained in the pain stage. The ones who deny and become strong and try to forget will have a harder time in recovery because they first have to face their denial, and then begin the process of breaking down their walls. So when you look at the trauma bond, while yes you meld with your abuser, and you may have both come from the same place as far as you were both traumatized, the roles are not and never will be the same. Therefore, when the bond is broken and you begin to recover, they will not be joining you in this venture. An abuser knows exactly what they are doing. Otherwise they would be unable to carry out the manipulation and control with any degree of success. This is how they function and survive now. He has created exactly the scenario necessary for you to feed his insatiable unmet needs. What they don't know is how to change or stop it because it has now become a deeply ingrained part of who and what they are. They know what they are doing but there is a disconnect with empathy towards the victim or a desire to change, it has become their compulsion, addiction, their new inner core for maintaining control. They will create an illusion of connectedness towards you in order for you to bond with them. They use whatever method is necessary to gain your trust and completed devotion. The victim becomes addicted to staying in the bond, with the pain created from the bond; as well as the fantacy thinking that if they try harder to please, things may get better. I've invested so much time with him already and will I ever feel this intense love again? The pain for the victim becomes safe and familiar in an unhealthy way, and maybe next time he will change and I can finally get my unmet needs met. This is why it can be difficult to disengage the trauma bond. Fear also plays a big role for the victim. What will he do or what will I lose if I try to leave? There is almost a fear of: if I don’t have him in my world anymore, what is to become of me now? This is not true that you can not survive or will not be happy without him, it FEELS that way at the time, because the trauma bond is still engaged. These are great questions and are difficult to answer in a post to any complete degree. What I have illustrated here is an overview of answers to your questions. There are variables and other examples and factors. The ones stated MAY NOT APPLY TO EVERYONE, they are simply a brief overview of the dynamic which may play out in most cases. When working with people more details are necessary regarding their personal circumstances in order to give more personalized assessments. Hope this helps and I am always open and available for discussions and further clarification. Asking the questions and exploring ourselves is a major part of our recovery. I would like to see more of this and we will be exploring all of this when we begin to moderate and work the steps together shortly. We are all in training for this now and we all look forward to making it through this together. Goldie
Jan 21 - 12PM (Reply to #7)
gettinbetter
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Goldie

Are they aware of this? Are they consciously doing it? Did he look at me and go oh yeah I made sick of it crazy once before I can do it again? Are they consciously aware that they feel good when they do this?
Jan 21 - 2PM (Reply to #8)
Goldie
Goldie's picture

Sickofit

I don't believe it works exactly that way. Apparently they they are aware of what they are doing and can see how it is affecting you; not feel it but see it. A narc simply see's it but does not care. Because it is not their problem, it is your problem. What they do is for a means to an end. What they do is for their own benefit not yours and if you have nothing they want or need they will discard you for a time. Until you "get over it" for awhile and hopefully you won't give them too much grief or you miss them by then, so they come back again to take from you some more if no better supply is available. As we know, a narc can also have other PD as well. They may get some pleasure from it if you have hurt them and they are paying you back, however that is not a narcs primary motive, they simply don't care and it is all about them and what they need. I tried to explain to narcs how they hurt me and they basically said: sorry you feel that way type of thing, the only time they "act" bothered is when they are trying to manipulate you so they put on a show of remorse. An antisocial, if crossed or has a sense that they are being screwed with, whether or not they really are or not, is secondary, it is all in how they perceive your actions. They may derive pleasure and enjoyment from watching you squirm. They are twisted and get off on the misery of others. Seems to make them feel superior for the moment or in control of you. Many sociopath's when honest will relay detailed accounts of harming other's and enjoying every minute of it. Some don't even care if it is someone who crossed them or not. See, once again there are many variables involved, depending on their particular m/o. They may never give it a second though aside from boasting about it with their cell mates of friends. To put it in a nutshell a narc does not care about you because they are mostly thinking about them and new supply. A sociopath has more adgenda in harming others. There are no absolutes here. Some PD have such super ego's that they get off on the power they can exert on other's make them feel in control. Ultimately the suffer from low self image, and if they can create insanity in others they walk away virtually unscathed and on to the next victim. Now having said all this. Do you believe on some level that it is o.k. to put up with his abuse if he does not mean to do it and if he does mean to do it is not o.k. Where exactly are you going with all of this? The bottom line in life is the effect someone is having on you, not their motivation. Suppose an addict does not mean to rob you blind and cheat on you when he is in a blackout but he does it anyway? He keeps going back to his substance and he keeps hurting you, however when he is somewhat sober, the next day, he is so sorry and may very well feel this. Is any of that going to change the fact that he is in the clutches of addiction and destroying your life? There are many who choose to stay in the situation because they feel they love the addict. When is enough enough? We may never know for sure if any of these people have true remorse or not or if they have the occasional glimpse of remorse. Most professionals will say they don't because they are far too self centered in their disorder to consider the feelings of others. Wondering this can use up years of your life as you remain in continuous tormoil. What difference does it make to the quality of your life and why is it your responsibility to keep caretaking them when it hurts you so much? There are many questions and decisions which we all need to make. Staying with an addict or a PD becomes a form of addiction for the victim and they are the only one who can come to terms with the damage and fall out caused by the abuse. We are not able to make a diagnosis on the board, so it is difficult to say with certainty which disorders each PD has without having all the facts. You have researched this for months and probably have a good idea. What do you think? G
Jan 21 - 4PM (Reply to #9)
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

Hey Goldie, I will contact

Hey Goldie, I will contact you on the new board. I want to ask u some stuff but dont want to clutter up this post with my personal issues. Will you be on there in a little?
Jan 21 - 10AM (Reply to #6)
spinning
spinning's picture

Excellent oost, Goldie...

Wow. I'm with you. I hope we will have more of this insightful discussion. Thank you so much. Sincerely (trying to stop) spinning

spinning

Jan 20 - 8PM (Reply to #3)
Happy1
Happy1's picture

Goldie

Thanks! It's hard to self reflect on things since I have been one to put on a happy face no matter what. I will keep reading and studying and talking to the therapist. These posts and hearing from you and the rest of the ladies really has been helping me a great deal! I appreciate it and I will continue to try to think of me and my son and think less of how to help the N. Love, Happy1
Jan 20 - 6PM
Happy1
Happy1's picture

One more thing with my (gay)

One more thing with my (gay) ex-husband. He didn't just move out suddenly. He was my very best friend since I was 19 and he disappeared. He abandoned my son and I for the first 6 years of his life really. He has been way too busy with the new freedom he had and was far to interested in his new love interests to barely see my son and he no longer did a thing with me. I just accepted it.