Ick, sort of sad . . . and stirring some old angry beasties

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#1 Dec 24 - 1PM
Briseis
Briseis's picture

Ick, sort of sad . . . and stirring some old angry beasties

Got a big long message from my kids' dad on Facebook last night.

I have not spoken to, or heard from him, for thirteen years. At least! I invited him back into our kids life when they were almost fourteen and eleven. He made all these promises and then never showed up. My son called him several times a day for about two weeks, and I just paid the long distance phone bill. He never returned my son's calls.

Here's the message.

Um, this is very hard. So many years have passed and so many things have happend. I will fill you in on all the details if you want to know-I have finally come back to life, Iam so afraid to be doing this. I know what a terrible human I have been. My life has been , well, I cant even find the words. Iam now (for the last 6 years) off my meth addiction and I try to deal with the hate and sorrow I feel about the person I have been and the life I have lead. Before I go into the long story( that you may or may not want to here) I would like to ask your permission to contact our kids. Im sure they think the worst of me and I know I have given them every right to those feelings. I do not want to complicate there lifes,but, I would love to get to know them, I do love them(I know I didnt show that to them) and want to be a part of there lifes. Kim please know that I will do what YOU think is right. Iam asking for your guidence. I will stop here, I dont want to give you a sob-story and I know you didnt exspect this and I dont want to mess up you Christmas so, If yopu do not reply I will understand and not contact the kids at this time. Again Im sorry for laying this on you, Please forgive me. Thank You. I hope to hear from you soon. p.s. Im only online a couple times a week. I wish you all the good that life has to give. Thank You-- Richard

First off . . . "my kids" are 27 and 24 years old. He doesn't need my permission. Does he?

That SONOFABITCH. Come crawling back like this. I also feel extremely touched by his message. I also feel like hacking into my kids' Facebooks and blocking his ass. I don't want them to have to go through this with him. Yet they are his kids, and it is their "karma" so to speak. My kids are at peace, as far as I know. But I know how people are. Especially my son, who has had at least TWO very disappointing male figures in his life NOT including his father.

See, I am a person who strongly believes that people can make terrible mistakes and then right them. I certainly have!!

Richard and I married when I was 17 years old, and my daughter and son were born when I was 18 and 21 years old. I left him in California four months before my son was born. I raised them entirely on my own, with no child support. I invited him back into their lives TWICE. Once when the kids were five and two years old, next about nine years later. He royally fucked up both times.

Now they are adults. And Mama Bear's job is done. But Mama Bear still has her teeth and claws and they are out . . . and not sure they want to be, should be. Ugh.

But I don't want ANY part in this.

He needs to have the cajones to contact them himself.

He is so obviously a Narc. I hardly KNEW him, we were so young, but I'd be giving him huge benefit of the doubt to even consider he just MIGHT be NORMAL (albeit a drug addict).

I think of Sick of it and others who've had their exNarc sail back in after many years . . . and my red flags are waving. I want to forgive him, instantly. I looked at his pictures of himself (all Narc self portraits of course, sheesh), and my heart dropped into instant confusion. Red flag!! If he wasn't a full blown Narc when we were kids together, he's surely become one.

Ignore his request and block him? I am not sure.

And this "not sure"? That tells me more than anything that he is a Narc and I'd better go do it right now.

Not say anything to the kids?

Dec 27 - 7AM
Ava
Ava's picture

Briseis - I'm coming a bit late to this but I'm just so very

very glad to hear that you're not feeling so bad now for blocking him. That was the big thing that kicked me when I read this - his message & your comment saying you felt like a jerk for blocking him. Truly how dare that sonofabitch. That message from him is just oozing with self-servitude, emotional manipulation, traps to try to get you to hooked in & massively offensive attempts to gain your sympathy. The very first sentence - "um, this is hard" - right of the f**king bat its aimed at you feeling sorry for him & yet impressed by what he is doing. Its incredibly self-serving. And its hard for HIM? Oh boo hoo. Notice there is no actual genuine apology in this message. He says he is trying to deal with the "hate & sorrow" he feels about the person he's been. But there is absolutely NO apology nor recognition of what it has done to you or your children. Nothing. He says he knows he has given your children "every right" to think the worst of him, but there's no real acceptance of responsibility. Its just more boo hoo for him. You know what that feels like to me? Like an invitation / opening for you to contact him & say "Oh no, they don't think the worst of you, you're not all that bad....etc" To absolve him without him actually apologising or accepting what he did. There is nothing about how hard it all has been for anyone else, for you or for your children. Just how hard it has been & is for him. All. About. Him. There is no real apology & also no real discussion of how he feels he has changed, what steps he has made to change himself & his life [other than that he's off the meth] & there is nothing of his future plans to keep improving. Nothing solid to indicate he really has changed or what he intends to do to even begin to make amends with you or his children. Then he asks you for your permission to contact your adult children? What the hell? No. Smells more like to me that he's using this crap as an excuse to contact you. And then the obsequious "asking for your guidance." Another ploy to disarm you - he even used capitals just to ram that home. And the ending - I'm sorry, he hopes to hear from you soon but he's only online a couple of times a week? I'm sorry WHAT? Is this a control ploy or an excuse for further delays? Any man who was genuinely trying to reach out to his estranged children, after truly changing himself & his life, would be sitting at that computer after sending that message [that was oh so hard for him to write], pressing refresh on his Facebook page every hour at least. Not saying "Please write back soon, but only on Tuesdays & Fridays between 1-2pm." And if he didn't want to mess up your Christmas then why the f**k did he send this AT CHRISTMAS? I read five words of his message & wanted to smack him. I am so glad, SO GLAD you're not feeling so bad anymore for blocking him. And I may just be ranting or re-ranting, but one more thing - you said that you wouldn't just block anyone like that...."especially after an apology." But....this message is a BULLSHIT apology. There is no true apology in it. I was brought up to believe that a real apology involves three things - full acknowledgement of what you did that hurt someone [absent in his message], genuine expression of remorse for causing that hurt to the other person [not self-serving, self-pity - which is all his message includes] & a real attempt to make amends / state how you will try to make amends [he just says he'd love to get to know your children - again, self serving - all about what HE wants]. You've made excellent decisions on how you've dealt with this - both with him & the talks with your children. Fingers crossed the only Richard you'll have to deal with again will be llama Richard :) Ava xx

Ava

Dec 26 - 6PM
apple
apple's picture

Briseis!!!

Please don't be sad. You are my rock and if your sad then I'm sad. I hope you are feeling better!!!
Dec 26 - 7PM (Reply to #23)
Briseis
Briseis's picture

Oh I'm moving through it. I

Oh I'm moving through it. I feel more annoyed than sad but still. Sad for my kids, not for me. And a little sad that the ex-ex is reduced to this at his age. I talked to my kids yesterday about this. They were shocked, and then it was strange, the subject dropped. Later on it came back up and we talked a lot longer. They are very curious. I got to say what I wanted to say. A "father" that abandoned his kids and wants to be back in their lives when they are young adults . . . what does he want? What do his kids need from him now? My son said "I don't even know him. I wouldn't know what to say." It made me realize that he isn't contacting them for anyone but himself. Yeah, I know. DUH :P so I told the kids that. I told them I didn't respond and blocked him, not because I hated him or was angry, but because I've had eNOUGH Narc bullcrap for a life time. I told them he is not stupid, he knows their names and if he has the balls to contact them directly, that will be a good sign. Otherwise, people rarely change, and don't trust what people SAY to tell you where they are coming from . . . watch what they DO.
Dec 26 - 11PM (Reply to #24)
apple
apple's picture

Briseis!!!

Such good advice you gave to your children. They are REALLY lucky to have you as their mom. =)
Dec 25 - 2AM
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

So DICK..I mean Richard...

You didn't want to mess up Christmas...WTH...what did you think, you were gonna get an "Its a Wonderful Life Reception?" God, this scares me, cause seriously, I think in thirteen years I will have perfected my flaming knife throwing skills. Someone better go warn the narc, not to come back in a few years on his fourth step... For his safety...
Dec 25 - 1PM (Reply to #19)
Briseis
Briseis's picture

"I don't want to mess up

"I don't want to mess up Christmas . . . but here I go messing it up anyway!!!" :barf: What more do I need to know :P ??? My first gut instinct reaction was Oh, you sorry ass SOB!!! :D How DARE you?? Then I read the message, looked at his FB . . . he has about ten pictures of his own FACE (lol!!) and one pic of him and a little chubby girl, sitting across a picnic table grinning cheesily at each other. It is an ADORABLE picture!! It melted my heart. It could be on a Christmas card. I must add before I blocked my exNarc, his FB also had six or seven pictures of HIS face from varying angles too. What more do I need to know? This guy is trouble. And he's not MY trouble. He's trouble to my kids. And I have no control. I don't feel like such a cruel, cold bitch for blocking him anymore. I didn't send him a nasty message back telling him to go back to Hell where he came from. I just didn't respond and don't want him slithering around my Facebook looking at my pics and reading my stuff. Ick. I don't have any reason whatsoever to trust him. My FB is set with higher security because I have no reason to trust a LOT of people, most of whom I've never met :D . That's just the way it is in this life.
Dec 26 - 6PM (Reply to #21)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Brie

Wanna talk high security... I even ban people who are not friends from sending messages...It's just my pic and that I'm female lest someone might not know... Changed my last name to Rivera hoping they can't search for me... Shoot... GTFOH! Don't think I need to spell out that acronym... HUGS
Dec 25 - 4PM (Reply to #20)
Leah
Leah's picture

Briseis, it's good for me to hear about FB

because I don't yet have an account. I'm planning on opening a Facebook account this week. I'm going to set my security settings really high, because I don't want to have anything to do with any ex-narcs. I hope you've been able to have a good Christmas despite the idiot's message. I'm glad you block him; nothing good could come from contact with him. From the sounds of his Facebook profile, it sounds like he's still knee-deep in narcness. I guess it goes to prove that PDIs rarely ever change as they get older. So sad. I'm glad he's been out of your life for so many years! Phew. Hugs, Leah
Dec 25 - 2AM
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Brie

A serious question...what percent of drug addicts would you say are narcs? I'm just curious... And when they're allegedly clean? Any idea... I know you are not the statistical manual of data but it just seems that even when OFF - they're still messed up...I learned the hard way... I thought once off - Poof - back to normal, that was my mistake...but it seems that even when off... And what amazes me more is how your story explains some things about his older son who wants nothing to do with him...and how naieve I was to think that it was because of the relationship with his second wife...NO - something much bigger happened - this dude has to be a narc and the boy was hurt by him in some way... Kid wants NOTHING to do with the man... The man would get melancholy and chase the kid down...kid would not even call back! And Narc was all hurt, and I got out the orchestra feeling soooo sorry... Yea, now I know why and I feel bad for the younger one...not sure if the second wife quite gets it... And mine allegedly had 18 years clean? I know of others, aquaintances - but they seem to have some shady behaviors... Your take if any?
Dec 25 - 1PM (Reply to #17)
Briseis
Briseis's picture

Hmmmm. I'm biased because

Hmmmm. I'm biased because I've had the personal AND the professional experience. Personality disorders predispose the person to have substance abuse/addiction problems. A person who is active and sunk in their addiction has a personality structure that is regressed, impulsive, dishonest and oblivious to the effect they are having on other people. If they have a twinge of conscience, they just go have a drink and that takes care of that. A lot MORE people with substance abuse/addiction have personality disorders than the general non substance abusing public. That is a statistical fact. And even if they DON'T have a PD, the recovery process once sober is like growing up into an adult all over again. So it may take years for the person to get to a normal mature adult frame of mind. Substance abuse has a direct effect on the personality. Is the personality already a mess before the substance abuse? More often than not. That's not my opinion, that is a fact.
Dec 25 - 12AM
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

Well its late on Christmas

Well its late on Christmas eve and I ve just seen this. The last few days I have been living a narc free normal life. Gosh this makes me cry how this people leave you holding a bag full of pain. They dessert you and then want forgiveness claiming to have had some epiphany regarding the error of their ways. This reminded me of the narc saying I understand sick of it if you can't speak to me anymore I don't mean to dredge all of this stuff from the past. I know its selfish of me but I want u back. Gosh it seemed so real. I also cry because secretly because I have no Christmas apology even if its for supply. He can't even be bothered. I'm not even worth supply to him He seems narcy to me but I'm also a narcocondriac. He could just be reflecting on his life but the timing and method is highly suspect.
Dec 25 - 12AM
betty2020
betty2020's picture

Well Well Well, the ghost

Well Well Well, the ghost returns from the dead. I Suppose supply is a little low? Humm?? Im so sorry that your going through this B. His timing is impeccable i see. Right at the holidays. This puts you in a tough spot, but i know you, and you will handle it with grace and charm. I think your right in telling the kids. Exactly the way you describe in your post. With a clear and concise Warning!!!Danger Ahead! point of view. As far as contact? Really no need as your children are of legal age. But he has done just enough to get your emotions in a stir and this is not good. I have listen to your wise words for many months now. You are always so spot on when it come to issues of contact and managing your thoughts and feelings based on the interactions with a Narc. Although it is easy for us that do not have the Narc hoovering to say block him, stay away, no contact...it strikes a cord when it actually happens to you. Out of the blue your blindsided and left paralyzed. This is the time to put on all breaks. Stop yourself from taking any action. I made this mistake and it cost me. I am still suffering from the effects. In my opinion i believe you should block him. If you had to respond b/c of the children that is one issue but that is not the case here. Years have passed. You know the person you were married to. You know the disorder better than anyone i know. You understand that no amount of an apology will change who and what he is. For this sole purpose alone, you must keep your distance. But im telling you all the things you already know. I would state your convictions with the children, allow them to make a choice and let this run the coarse. As you already stated, he will disappear again anyway. But this needs brought to the attention of your son and daughter. That is; if they even want anything to do with this him anyway. My guess will be no, but if so I believe it will end after just one meeting. xoxo Lots of Love your way tonight only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

Dec 25 - 12AM (Reply to #12)
betty2020
betty2020's picture

ps. One friendly

ps. One friendly suggestion...I would wait till after the holidays to tell them. Just in case this is not welcomed news for them to hear. If he wants this bad enough, he will be around on monday. xoox only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

Dec 25 - 1AM (Reply to #13)
Briseis
Briseis's picture

Thanks :) I went ahead and

Thanks :) I went ahead and blocked him this morning. As the day went by, I felt like a complete JERK for blocking him. Yep. I'm sitting here watching myself feel like a JERK, cruel and cold bitch. It was interesting to "witness" myself feel those feelings, and rather than react to them, just notice them kind of detatchedly. Yep, par for the course. I can "know better" and my heart still goes through it's motions. I wouldn't just block anyone like that, it's just not something you do in decent society, especially after an apology. Except we are dealing with a crappy behaved person, and it's no fun to have to do what you have to do with them :( It's funny how feelings for him are right there, beneath the surface. I don't feel anything about him normally. I named my male llama after him because Richard is red headed and freckled, and the llama is an appaloosa with a cream body and red spots :D I mean, no anger, just . . . this was a long time ago, twenty five years ago. But the feelings are still there. How strange that is, but it's just like Sick of it says.
Dec 25 - 8AM (Reply to #14)
blueeyes
blueeyes's picture

Feelings?

What kind of feelings are under the surface? Serious question. First husband , I do not get the "feelings" of love or HIM, but I get mad at abandoning his kids. I never was in love with him tho. My questions is, if my current H hovers, it's "feelings" because I WAS in love with him, right? I need to be very careful with this, I fear hovering even tho I will call the cops if he contacts me. He is so good he manages to hover via social workers at the hospital? Ugg, darn, I don't have a question anymore!!!!! I just realized the answer as I was typing. I'm sorry...Feelings under the surface I get it. Hey, it's sorta nice to give Briseis advice. Finally, we can pay it forward, she is always there for us. :)
Dec 24 - 3PM
Briseis
Briseis's picture

THANK YOU EVERYONE!! OK, I

THANK YOU EVERYONE!! OK, I just blocked him so that's that. No response. How he interprets that will be interesting but I don't need this kind of "interesting" in my life. I've put my time in with this man. I'm done with this. You can't tell a damn THING about someone by their words. Even their spoken words, when you are in their presence face to face. We are veterans of this war. PDIs are chameleons, it is not possible to determine where their heart is except by their actions. And I'm 99% sure that's exactly what he is. If he's not? Great. It's not my concern. We're all going out to my sister's tomorrow for our Xmas family bash and on the way home, I'll tell them that their dad contacted me and that I did not respond. I'll tell them that people do what they want and don't do what they don't want. If their dad wants contact with them, they are adults and he does not need my permission, he needs THEIRS. And if he WANTS to be in their lives, he will make that very clear by his BEHAVIOR. I left him for a very good reason and never once regretted it. People can and do change. VERY rarely. History is your best indicator of the future actions of a person, not HOPES and WISHES and DREAMS that you have on their behalf. My job is done with him, and I would need a helluva lot more evidence to put even a sliver of my heart on the line for him. I would caution you to do the same. If he is sincere, it will be obvious, over time. He will be willing to do all the work. He will respect your reluctance and even your dismissal if that's what you choose. And I'm gonna be very frank about the consequences of getting themselves embroiled with him on the huge chance that he is the same person who refused to be a part of their lives when they needed him. He is very good at making you feel sorry for him (obviously, with that message). Letting someone like that in your life is much easier than getting them back out. Yeah, he owes me a ton of money. He ain't stupid. He can figure it out, and where it needs to go. I'll be sure to mention this to the kids. I've been in a state, more or less, of sincere amend-making with my kids since I left the exNarc. I've handed over a bit of money, but mostly I've just been there and been stable enough to help out so my young adult kids, who got a rough start, can have a safety net. I'm just here for them, and as long as I am alive, (unless I can do cool stuff when I'm dead) I always will be, unconditionally. If he can manage that, well, good for them, good for him. Chances are he'll retreat and we'll never hear a thing once he gets a clue that I've blocked him. That's his style.
Dec 25 - 12AM (Reply to #10)
Leah
Leah's picture

Briseis, glad that you blocked him

He's the same ol' PDI, just maybe wrapped in different packaging. Now he's out of your hair. Your kids are adults and they'll be okay. And they'll be proud of you for standing your ground and being in your truth. You're an inspiration. Merry Christmas! (especially w/o narc assclown) ; ) Hugs, Leah
Dec 24 - 3PM
Deidre99
Deidre99's picture

Yes, I would not reply. It

Yes, I would not reply. It would be very hard, I know myself, and I would waiver too. But, in the end...what will come of it? More toxicity? I'd try hard not to reply. The only reply I would even consider would be something flat...to the effect...''you can contact the kids directly.'' And then that's it. But, anything beyond, no. Hugs for you Briseis.
Dec 24 - 3PM
Hunter
Hunter's picture

Misery loves Company

Merry Christmas Bri, I think he is a narc Assclown ! I say do nothing let the dust settle and what is to follow. Oxox idealk
Dec 24 - 2PM
agnesmurphy17
agnesmurphy17's picture

Amazing.

Well, he does say he's sorry. That's saying something. However, this apology may be a requirement of a 12 Step Program. I think you are right, you don't have to do anything. Tough call because I have no doubt your kids have some feeling for their father. About the child support. If you had court orders & he never paid, he would still owe you. Could be a nice nest egg for the kids. Downpayment on a house. I heard about a man who did not pay child support for well over a decade. Disabled, mentally ill, & in & out of prison. He won the Million Dollar Lottery. No kidding. The child support owed came to well over $66,000! But, the mother & the adult child never got a dime. Lottery win evaporated. Seems he blew it all & ended up in prison for a bad check scheme. But if your fella is so apologetic, maybe he's willing to poney up some bucks for the kids?
Dec 24 - 2PM
ImStrong
ImStrong's picture

Your always welcome in our

Your always welcome in our 32 day club Bri..we welcome you with open arms..even the best of us get pulled under by these Narc..we support you and we understand these challenges to ignore such a actor who plays in the same damn play every damn time..enough is enough..They choose wich road they will take..now its time for you to choose yours..Delete and join us in our 32 day recovery..It will all be for you "In the fiery pit lays a man with two faces.One is the face of a God and the other a face of the Devil.Beware He lurks your souls.Keep one hand on your heart and the other hand over your eyes. Let him walk pass you not into you.Ghost of love will possess you"

"In the fiery pit lays a man with two faces.One is the face of a God and the other a face of the Devil.Beware He lurks your souls.Keep one hand on your heart and the other hand over your eyes. Let him walk pass you not into you.Ghost of love will possess

Dec 24 - 2PM
blueeyes
blueeyes's picture

Ugh!

That bastard! I don't mean to do this at christmas? Uhm, you did it anyways so you DID mean to do this on Christmas, richard! Plus he spelled hear as here then later spelled it correctly? Psycho!!! Sorry, this one hits home B!!!! Mother farmer!!!!! I have 2 kids with a man that my kids do not see also, as you know. I got 2 cards for both girls in the mail yesterday, each said the same thing: "I hope you have a good christmas. I love and miss you." Translation: if you loved and missed then you would have paid support. Plus, 4 weeks ago you wouldn't have thrown their personal belongings away. What to do? Idk? I read his cards, didn't tell the kids and ripped them up. He sent that card for HIM! If he wanted to do something for them, he would send bras, underwear or gift cards being that he makes 6 figures and we are looking for housing. Richard? Idk? I'd like to have him and my 1st husband circumcised again today! I have no advice because I trude away with the same crap. NC??, does that include adult children? I think it's up to them? Bastard! Richard, your a bastard, it's Christmas and your message isn't even humble!!!!! Oh boy, Richards got me going today. B, screw him, if you lived close I would bring you to my "ugly Christmas sweater" party tonight to take your mind off this. PS- I keep saying Richard but I believe the term is "Dick"
Dec 24 - 1PM
tynk3377
tynk3377's picture

oh Bri...

I'm sorry the SOB picked now of all times...but then again when better than this time of year.... They are like herpes...the gift that keeps on giving...ugh.... Personally at 27 and 24 I would simply pass on the request with or without a warning (not sure how your kids feel about their dad but at those ages they are certainly old enough to decide for themselves)....then I would promptly join the 32 day club and block his ass..... Sweetie...you are one of the life blood of this group...your reasoning and logic have helped so many of us thru the rough patches.....so look at your post as one of us writing it and reaching out to you for your sage advice.... You know you would tell us he his playing on your sympathies girl....that instant feeling is why we are all here in the first place..... Ignore Delete Block Pass on the info Enjoy your holidays with a clear head HUGGS Bri....be strong
Dec 24 - 2PM (Reply to #2)
anonymous
anonymous's picture

Yes, Ignore

I'm so sorry Bri that this has happened. I agree with Tynk. Just ignore him. If he tries really hard (and it wouldn't even be hard unless he was totally lazy, which he probably is), then he can figure out on his own how to contact his children. Mama Bear has definitely paid her dues.
Dec 24 - 2PM (Reply to #3)
darkspark
darkspark's picture

I agree with this...

...If he tries really hard (and it wouldn't even be hard unless he was totally lazy, which he probably is), then he can figure out on his own how to contact his children... Just leave it alone - if he tries again, then maybe, but why stir up everything on a doubtful thing. Or at least leave it until after the holiday. People who want to get all sentimental and FORGIVE ME at Christmas - they are just doing for themselves! Forget his time table. It is not your priority.