If they are such evil then why do so many desire them?

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#1 Apr 23 - 7AM
neverlookback
neverlookback's picture

If they are such evil then why do so many desire them?

I wanted to post a topic asking us to list everything that was wonderful about your X-PDI, as I scrolled thru the topics it seemed the only past post I saw was, "How Great the Sex Was". And even as I read what each of us shared with them intimately ED eventually came into play, of course even healthy normal males can suffer from this also for various reasons, mainly age being a factor.

I had a very interesting question asked of me: During my time of NC what did the PDI give me that I needed so badly, what was the void he filled in my life that I am missing now that he is gone? Was it the sex? mmmm well if you count the 4x a year we engaged in that, I THINK NOT. Was it the Mr. Right image he pretended to be initially? - Prince charming has been gone the past three years, and even though that man is still so very clear in my mind, I will have to say the evil, perverted side of him has erased that, I have a pretty clear understanding now that is NOT the man he is. Was it the attention he gave me? Yes, partially but not the imagine of what he projected on me being his whore, I DO NOT MISS THAT. So I give, what did this man give me that made me happy and filled that void in my life that I needed so badly?

And if they are so damn evil, why do so many women want them, why do so many women stay with them and why are we left so damn shattered when they dump us or we go NC. Why do we miss a man that betrayed and abused us to the CORE? Why did I need closure from a man that in reality just raped me, my text to him being; I just wanted to wish you well even though you did all of these thing to me Rapist I WISH YOU WELL.

Why does his GF stay only to compromise to the core of what she really wants only for the sake to have him in her life? I know now I must get back with NC, and why does that pain me, just what the hell did this man give me that I needed so badly to stay and tolerate being so damn abused? Help me ladies because I really want to understand?

Jun 2 - 7AM
wacaet
wacaet's picture

I'm actually crying at my

I'm actually crying at my desk, this topic touched something deep inside me. At first, my N said all the right things (especially wanting to have a baby with me). I was so lonely and depressed and neglected by my husband. My N groomed me for a YEAR before initiating our first meet up for coffee. And, he'd always been my "what if" since he was the last man I dated before marrying my first husband. I thought I "knew" him and he used that to get to me. Then, when he started in with the N behavior, I was confused. He did all the classic N things to leave me confused and blaming myself. I got MORE addicted to him where a normal reaction would have been to run for the hills. Maybe it's because I'm stubborn and didn't want to admit I had fallen for an illusion? I prayed for the God I wasn't sure I believed in to show me the truth, he kept trying and then finally he showed me in the most shocking, horrific way, exactly what I was dealing with. And yet, I still miss the pretend man. Logically it makes zero since. That's why I'm here, so that I can reinforce that NC is the only way to recover and so you guys can repeatedly get it through my head that he is a sick man, the pretend man was a fake persona and I'm better off sad, lonely and neglected in my marriage than tied to an N who wants to drain me emotionally and manipulate my head to get his NS
Jun 2 - 2AM
greengirl91
greengirl91's picture

One of the psychologist

One of the psychologist people I`ve been talking to, said that we choose from instict, we choose what is "familiar" to us. If you noticed, many here come from dysfunctional families, with parents/relatives who were Narcisistic, Borderline/ Mentally Ill. We choose what it feel like "home" unforcinately. The same psychologist told me that the "cure", lies in how we choose to take care of ourselves, to love ourselves the way our parents should but they didn`t. We have to forgive, forgive our N parents, forgive ourselfs, become strong and independent by learning to take care of our inner children and wounds from childhood. Our vulnerable side I guess makes us choose the N people in the beginning. At least that`s what happened to me. I never really felt safe in my relationship with my father, I always felt like the adult. What I liked about my ex N in the first place, was that independency, he looked like a strong guy, wasn`t afraid to make choices. I somehow searched to be parented, searched that unconditional thing that I didn`t had. But as someone said around here, and said it well "Do not seek comfort from the source of your pain". And how many times didn`t I break this rule, and learned like a child to back off one more time. NC is the solution to get our lives back, step by step. I`m learning this now.
Apr 23 - 11PM
M
M's picture

It seems we simply believed

It seems we simply believed in their mask. Then when it was removed we thought the orginial guy would come back if--his job improved, we cleaned the house better, we were "whatever". We thought he was a good person. We bought the "sales pitch".
Apr 23 - 11PM (Reply to #20)
neverlookback
neverlookback's picture

I know

He made the sale and we bought it, done deal, but it was nothing personal, ya right
Apr 23 - 11PM
M
M's picture

It seems we simply believed

It seems we simply believed in their mask. Then when it was removed we thought the orginial guy would come back if--his job improved, we cleaned the house better, we were "whatever". We thought he was a good person. We bought the "sales pitch".
Apr 23 - 11PM
Steph
Steph's picture

The first one, I stayed with

The first one, I stayed with because I didn't "know better", i guess? I was seventeen, he was my first boyfriend. As I got older, and began to "grow into myself", and developed my career....I knew he was not good enough and was abusive and would never change....so after seven years...I left. The next serious relationship developed several years later ( with the last N ). I HONESTLY thought he was amazing and genuine and I had hit the jackpot. He was sweet and educated and so into me. His abuse wasn't blatant at first....it was covert.....when I started seeing him unmasked...it was too late and I was brainwashed. I don't think there is a solid explanation as to WHY we stay, WHY we tolerate abuse....stockhom syndrome? trauma bonding? BRAINWASHING? The crazymaking that happens from being with them is beyond belief. I still shake my head at the effect it had on me. They presented themselves one way, we fell for them, and then by the time their mask slipped, it was too late for logic. We were already brainwashed, under their spell.... Why are we so shattered when it ends, when the mask slips?....I think the experience of being with them is like you said, RAPE. Emotional rape. We have been betrayed, abused and rejected, right down to the very core of our being by someone that initially portrayed themselves as loving and compassionate. We trusted. Why wouldn't we be shattered from that?
Apr 23 - 4PM
Journey
Journey's picture

For me it was simply that he

For me it was simply that he showed himself to be everything I've ever wanted in a man. And I mean everything. We have tons in common, we formed two separate creative collaborations, one involving my biggest passion in life, which was in itself enough to keep me wanting to be with him. The other became the business we formed. Except for his disorder, he was perfect for me. When the abuse started (very covert - the controlling, withholding etc.), I just so wanted it to go away and for him to be who he seemed to be - crazy about me, as happy as I was and as in love as I was. I miss that pretend guy every day and I know if he wasn't disordered we would still be together. I think that is in part why he had to leave. He knows he can't keep pretending he has the ability to reach emotional depth and he didn't enjoy hurting me (like some narcs seem to). As far as why others want him, that is easy, it is because he's good looking enough, charming, intense in his passion and willing to lie (or omit truths at least), to get supply in the short term. He is not the kind of narc who usually sticks around for the long term. I believe him when he said he really tried with me. He couldn't do it because he's a narc. He thinks it is just because he is 'different' than most. He moves on quickly and often, from people, places, projects and even ideas.

Journey on...

Apr 23 - 3PM
fooled no longer
fooled no longer's picture

Im echoing exactly what

Im echoing exactly what Redhead 1 said its me ditto x 10 "I am a nuturer. I kept thinking I could fix things or he would grow up. I am also a optomist. I just gotta learn when something is not gonna change. I am trying to stomp it in my head-It doesnt matter what he is, wheather he is right or wrong-it was just not good for me"
Apr 23 - 4PM (Reply to #15)
Hunter
Hunter's picture

FNL

Wow !! Youre Cooking girl, Good advice. Hunter
Apr 23 - 9AM
Used
Used's picture

the devil

the saying is THE DEVIL CAN COME TO YOU IN VERY PLEASING FORMS, HE WILL GIVE YOU WHAT YOU DESIRE AND THEN DESTROY YOUR VERY SOUL. i believe we all met if not the devil ,his cohorts,and we fell for the pleasing words and pleasing actions and by the time we relized we were bewithched and couldnt then get free, and only now with the grace of god i am becoming free, they live in the abyss and thats where they take us, if we are lucky we can crawl out. evil is very powerful and can ensnare the strongest of us.
Apr 23 - 2PM (Reply to #10)
Monica
Monica's picture

"In the desert, the voices of God and Satan are....

...barely distinguishable." I cannot find the exact quote right now but it is very close to this. And I have thought about it often when thinking about why I got so involved with a narc. He knew I was compassionate and forgiving and accepting. He knew I knew what he was and still accepted him. He NEEDED that, especially when everyone else abandoned him (including an entire community). He knew I would build him back up and help him find courage and self-esteem and a new life with people who didn't know his past and would befriend him. He conditioned me and brainwashed me so that I would stay with him until these things were accomplished. He faked true remorse and the determination to "change" and be a better/different person. He faked falling in love with me, wanting to retire with me. I am a "fixer" so he knew I would stick by him as he "changed his life" and his outlook on life. And I did. Until "mission accomplished" and he didn't need me anymore. He lied to his therapist from day one. That should have been a huge red flag to me. He has her brainwashed, too, and goes to her weekly for validation because she doesn't know half the things he has done that have been truly evil.
Apr 23 - 4PM (Reply to #11)
agnesmurphy17
agnesmurphy17's picture

This is my story!

Except mine faked falling in love with me so that I could help him get up the money to buy the house he wanted. He married me for money. And, he was perfect. I didn't need to fix anything. I was so happy & feeling so lucky. Withing in days of the marriage -- the mask was removed. I lasted 2 1/2 years being compassionate, forgiving & accepting. Mine is EVIL. After I left him, he really showed me how evil & ruthless he is. Everything he says is a lie. And he is always the victim.
Apr 23 - 5PM (Reply to #13)
neverlookback
neverlookback's picture

REALLY

its so sick to FAKE falling in love with someone, this is what they all do of course, but are you serious, you are going to Fake that you love me for $$, sex, image, or whatever the reason is - It is one thing with the bar scene how so many of these young girls are taken by men that are just out for sex, I was NEVER NEVER that naive to fall for that scene. But here is a 50 year old grown man, who KNEW damn well I was hurting with loss of my parents, my troubled marriage, he didnt have to FAKE loving me to get into my panties, there are plenty of women out there he can just get sex from, it goes way beyond that he knew I was the type of woman who DID NOT sleep around in my marriage, I was faithful for 20 some years thru all the abuse in my marriage, I was NOT looking for sex to solve that problem, I could have done that years ago if that is what I wanted, and believe me I had many many offers and WAS NOT INTERESTED. This man FAKED his connection with me, faked how he felt about me, how much we had in common, our common likes and dislikes, wanted to form a genuine adult relationship with me. It was calculating and diabolical he studies my needs, and KNEW what I wanted in a man and then became that very man. Agnes I have to tell you, his goal was not just to have sex with me, he had a higher agenda he wanted me to have GROUP encounters with him, my couselor once told me that having sex normally with one person was like going to first base with him, it did NOTHING for him which explains the ED and many other things I now think back on what a thrill it would have been for this sexual predator to take down a good moral woman. Having sex with me was a CHORE for him a maintenance he knew he had to do once and awhile to get me to bond with him and he figures the rest would follow, she loves me so deeply she will share this with me. My counselor once asked me if I had to rate on a scale from 1-10 how much this man looked forward to having sex with me every couple months what score would you give? I told him that is hard to say because they are very good at faking and acting so I said, a 5? He shook his head and said, LOWER, I then said a 2? He shook his head again and said, try in the negative range it was a pain in the ass to him the FIRST time was a a pain in the ass, but he did enjoy luring you into his web for better things to come. This is how sick and perverted this man was. Agnes I know its the same type of betrayal no matter what their agenda and motives were, mine was very wealthy so he was not after my money or inheritance, yours faked his love for you to gain $$$$ status and financial security. I have read in that book Women who Love psychopaths that women were left bankrupt by these psychos who pretended to love them for YEARS.
Apr 23 - 5PM (Reply to #12)
neverlookback
neverlookback's picture

REALLY

its so sick to FAKE falling in love with someone, this is what they all do of course, but are you serious, you are going to Fake that you love me for $$, sex, image, or whatever the reason is - It is one thing with the bar scene how so many of these young girls are taken by men that are just out for sex, I was NEVER NEVER that naive to fall for that scene. But here is a 50 year old grown man, who KNEW damn well I was hurting with loss of my parents, my troubled marriage, he didnt have to FAKE loving me to get into my panties, there are plenty of women out there he can just get sex from, it goes way beyond that he knew I was the type of woman who DID NOT sleep around in my marriage, I was faithful for 20 some years thru all the abuse in my marriage, I was NOT looking for sex to solve that problem, I could have done that years ago if that is what I wanted, and believe me I had many many offers and WAS NOT INTERESTED. This man FAKED his connection with me, faked how he felt about me, how much we had in common, our common likes and dislikes, wanted to form a genuine adult relationship with me. It was calculating and diabolical he studies my needs, and KNEW what I wanted in a man and then became that very man. Agnes I have to tell you, his goal was not just to have sex with me, he had a higher agenda he wanted me to have GROUP encounters with him, my couselor once told me that having sex normally with one person was like going to first base with him, it did NOTHING for him which explains the ED and many other things I now think back on what a thrill it would have been for this sexual predator to take down a good moral woman. Having sex with me was a CHORE for him a maintenance he knew he had to do once and awhile to get me to bond with him and he figures the rest would follow, she loves me so deeply she will share this with me. My counselor once asked me if I had to rate on a scale from 1-10 how much this man looked forward to having sex with me every couple months what score would you give? I told him that is hard to say because they are very good at faking and acting so I said, a 5? He shook his head and said, LOWER, I then said a 2? He shook his head again and said, try in the negative range it was a pain in the ass to him the FIRST time was a a pain in the ass, but he did enjoy luring you into his web for better things to come. This is how sick and perverted this man was. Agnes I know its the same type of betrayal no matter what their agenda and motives were, mine was very wealthy so he was not after my money or inheritance, yours faked his love for you to gain $$$$ status and financial security. I have read in that book Women who Love psychopaths that women were left bankrupt by these psychos who pretended to love them for YEARS.
Apr 23 - 12PM (Reply to #9)
Alisa
Alisa's picture

Well said.

Well said.
Apr 23 - 9AM
skystar
skystar's picture

Moth to the flame, sweetie.

Moth to the flame, sweetie. And our own "I can fix it" syndrome. "My give a damn is busted." They never had a "give a damn.
Apr 23 - 8AM
Bitter-sweet
Bitter-sweet's picture

Neverlookback

I think this is a very good question and , from my own experience, I can hazard two explanations. The first is that he cultivated an addiction in me in the early stages. Just as he needed me as supply, I began to depend on a steady stream of compliments. He was very adept at using language. When we first met I was studying literature and I love words. He played right onto that. He would also text at the same times each day so that I was in a routine of expectation and dependence. I was very lonely- I still am, and I held onto his every word. Even now, 14 months later, I will suddenly hear his words again but I know they mean nothing now...but there is sadness that I will never hear such things again. The second explanation links with something you have already said. I did have a void in my life. After a long marriage I had been separated- for 18 months. I thought I was moving forward but I now see that I was following a relationship pattern that began with my father. I think he is an N and so is my husband. As a child I wanted my dad's love and approval. Very rarely, I got this but more often he would put me down- often in front of an audience. It didn't matter how hard I worked at school or whatever I did. He was controlling and a bully. I grew up never feeling good enough. The N pressed just the same buttons. He was successful and handsome. How could he want me? I was desperate to be loved. How I wanted him to love me but how he made me feel deep down that I was not good enough...I was locked into a pattern. I'm not sure it was desire keeping me there. I think it was my own idea of what love was- something that could be wonderful, but was precarious and could be gone in a flash. That's why I had poor boundaries and mistook abuse for love and why I was so scared to let go... I'm not sure if this makes sense but I have had to revisit my childhood to try to get over this. I've looked at all my other relationships and I've seen how I have tried really hard to please people and I know why now. In the past I have never felt good enough but I'm working on that now. I'm sure other people have different reasons for these ties and I'd love to hear them too.
Apr 23 - 6PM (Reply to #5)
Finally Faced It
Finally Faced It's picture

a man like him.

I also think it is closely related to childhood issues. It feels familiar and comfortable for me to try to win the love/approval from a man (starting with my father)...and I think these guys give us a second chance of sorts. If I could get him to just finally come around and love me, I would get that validation. Both from HIM and MY DAD. It's gotta' be something deep-rooted like that. But here's the thing...all of it doesn't really matter. It doesn't matter at all. What matters is what the f*ck is going on with me that I think I deserve this kind of treatment and that I would actually WANT to be with a man like him??
Apr 23 - 6PM (Reply to #6)
neverlookback
neverlookback's picture

I would actually WANT to be with a man like him??

I think that is where it starts, it starts with US and what we know is NOT HEALTHY for us, doesnt matter what HE thinks, does, or what others do, ITS NOT FOR ME and thats all that matters, I dont think it would be the life many women could live but hey if they can live with someone like that, that is WHAT THEY choose, and just because I CANT do that does not mean there is something wrong with me. NOBODY deserves that type of treatment, its inhumane. Yes I had an abusive father before I was adopted, I KNOW this goes back to childhood issues, winning love, approval, even if the man is not capable of loving someone I was DETERMINED to win his love, some things are not possible he is deformed and I have to accept that as a fact of life I can not change.
Apr 23 - 8AM
onwithmylife
onwithmylife's picture

NEVERLOOKBACK

i know WHY I stayed because i have a very weak support system, few living relatives in other states, just a few friends scattered around the country and felt very lonely and he played a huge part of my life, we were together every week for 2-3 days, did things together we both liked, took trips together, it was like husband and wife and when he left I still, after 2 years, have not filled that VOID, that is why I put up with all the abuse even though there were plenty of good times, when i was on my good behavior, sounds like a little school girl!
Apr 23 - 7AM
Swan
Swan's picture

Its very complex Neverlookback

but I think its a combo of many factors based on what I have learned. They don't start off abusive. Initially they are terrific boyfriends/girlfriends/spouses. Then, they groom you to kind of accept the abuse. They keep you off balance on purpose so you are confused and their behavior is intermittent and unpredictable. They sometimes do focus on a certain kind of person as their 'victim'- many previously injured women but some very strong independent women who can give them what they can't give themselves...and then they strategically break them! I don't miss HIM. I miss the dreams and hopes that I thought I was getting when I married this man. I do believe that if many of us thought about it truthfully, we really don't miss THEM, we miss companionship, the dreams and hopes that come along with being in a serious relationship. That's just my opinion. I hope it helps some?
Apr 23 - 8AM (Reply to #2)
Redhead1
Redhead1's picture

I am a nuturer. I kept

I am a nuturer. I kept thinking I could fix things or he would grow up. I am also a optomist. I just gotta learn when something is not gonna change. I am trying to stomp it in my head-It doesnt matter what he is, wheather he is right or wrong-it was just not good for me.