Is it possible that the N loves but just doesn't know how to show it?

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#1 Apr 13 - 9AM
dazed and seeki...
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Is it possible that the N loves but just doesn't know how to show it?

I don't have much time right now to explain what has been happening, but I will. I've been having a hard time, and unclear as to why I have been having such a hard time moving forward, and didn't know how to frame my question to the board. But it just came to me: I am still wondering if the N does in fact love me and want the relationship, but doesn't know how to show it because he acts on impulse and doesn't think.

I know that that in itself is enough for me not to be with him. But the thing that keeps lingering in my mind is that he does loves me.

Just a quick reason why this has come up: I haven't experienced the D&D ... yet. BUT he has cheated on my with many other women. All within the last 5 months. And I slowly found out about them - he never came clean. I don't know if I believe that there were more before that - so sometimes I feel like those episodes were due to other factors - moving to a new country, he and I weren't doing well, he was starting a new job.

Now that doesn't excuse his behavior - it's still ludacris. And I do think he is a narc.

But he has been fighting to hang onto me for the pat 5 months as well. He has tried and I just couldn't give him a chance because I was so hurt. I would step towards him a little and then run away.

The thing that has been nagging me is that I miss him. I do. And I know that I am protecting myself. But the fact that I haven't experienced the final D&D keeps me lingering and wondering if maybe...it won't end like that. It's like I'm not convinced - even though all signs that he's a N is there.

Is it possible that he does love me (I just can't believe that after outing him to his family he still wants me) and just doesn't know how to act in a loving responsible way?

I mean, if the answer is yes, I do understand that still doesn't mean I should be with him. But I guess wondering this over and over again and seeing him beg for me for so long and after I have done everything I could think of to push him away he is still there. His persistence is getting to me. And I wonder if I need to experience the full D&D and fall out before I get it? I really don't want to and don't know if I can handle it...

Am I just really confused and in a normal stage of processing this?

Apr 13 - 6PM
onwithmylife
onwithmylife's picture

dazed and seeking

I spent 15 years off and on with the narc and when I was the one to finally walk out on him ,I wish I had stayed away but 3 months later he wrote me a beautiful letter and I thought he had changed, knew nothing about NPD, and went back, what a mistake, a year later he takes off to another state, without me, what an ass and got no closure from him, he is such a coward and wimp.Thye will never and i mean never change, except get worse with more rage and anger towards us.
Apr 13 - 6PM
dazed and seeki...
dazed and seeking peace and strength's picture

UPDATE - MORE EMAILS FROM HIM

This is what he wrote: Hi sugar, I'm trying to get back to doing my daily devotions in the morning. This morning as i started i couldnt help but write you because I miss you so much and think about you night and day. Next week I I have a 4 day weekend, sure wish you were here. I wish you'd speak to me and i know you don't like me writing, I'm doing the best I can to do it as little as possible. I love you so much, First, thank you ladies for writing me. Your thoughtful comments always gives me things to digest and think about. And it helps to know that you all get what I'm talking about! Second, I have been struggling with this whole thing with the D&D. Somebody else posted about asking "what ifs" - it just seems so hard to leave when I don't have that final proof that he's an N - the D&D. I know I don't need that proof! And I know it will hurt like crazy if I allow it to get to that point - it will be devastating - I have gone through tremendous pain in this relationship already... .... so I just don't understand these loving emails. I mean I do, but it's really difficult to accept them as lies. I almost want the D&D to happen because I must have serious problems not to think he's done enough damage already (abuse, cheating, lying, etc). I hate this. I hate that my brain and mind seems to be completely scrambled. And his emails keep seducing me into thoughts of "what ifs"... Emails like these are really fake? He doesn't mean it? he is using God as a way to get to me and make it look like all of a sudden he is devoting? (He is Christian) Seriously? Somebody can be that callous and shallow? How do I get to a point where I can accept this w/o giving in?! What if I just give in...I fear what will happen after reading all of your stories. I don't want to live a life of what ifs forever - and I wonder if I will because I know that the chemistry/bond I had with him will never be - ever again. At least that's what I'm hearing from everybody. We were so good together - yet SO bad.
Apr 14 - 6AM (Reply to #14)
jen79
jen79's picture

dazed

You must understand, there are two person within them. One is a 3 year old boy in constant pain. The other one is an abusive cruel adult. When they write these things, sometimes, not always, they really mean what they say...in that very moment. If you give in, this little boy is satisfied, goes to sleep so to speak, and the absusive adult taps in again. But you cannot fight this. You must see the whole picture to understand.
Apr 13 - 10AM
spinning
spinning's picture

dazed, I so feel

for what you're feeling right now. I think it's normal and part of the process. I'd like to caution you, however. I went back with the disordered one due to 'his persistence' and it was by far the biggest mistake I ever made in my life. It cost me exactly 12 months to the day, almost, of a final, brutal D & D. Had I not gone back--or allowed him back into my life to be more exact--I would be almost a year-and-a-half out of this hell. Right now I am at a 5 months and one week NC and I can tell you that allowing him back (we had six f'n years together) was THE WORST MISTAKE I HAVE EVER MADE IN MY LIFE...and that's pretty huge because I've made a lot of them in my 50-plus years on the planet. If you truly want to be free of the chaos, I urge you to stay NC (do not listen to his messages, read his e-mail, they just keep you dazed) while you process what you know in your heart and gut and then take it from there. What you are experiencing is classic N. This is what they do when you pull away to save your own soul. I hope this helps. Stay the course, you are in the early phase, which is hell. I am here to tell you it's worth saving yourself...you will feel better, think more clearly and see the truth for what it is...including his so-called 'love.' Most sincerely (almost stopped) spinning

spinning

Apr 13 - 6PM (Reply to #12)
dazed and seeki...
dazed and seeking peace and strength's picture

Spinning, That's a relief to

Spinning, That's a relief to know that this is a normal part of the process. I guess i feel like i was doing well, and then i started to regress and it was so frustrating. I feel like I am yearning to reach out to him, and I didn't feel like that for a while. If he had left me alone I would be in a much better place. I keep hearing horror stories like yours and yet I wonder what in the world is wrong with me? Have I got no limits/boundaries? this is a serious problem for me because sometimes I WANT the D&D so I can get it good and be done with. And I want him to be done with me too. So what he is doing is classic N, huh?
Apr 13 - 10AM
ShaynasMommy
ShaynasMommy's picture

Love????

I will try to make this as short as possible. N's don't love, they can't. Do not fall into the trap that he is misunderstood or can be "shown" how to love in the proper sense of the word. Love = power to a Narc. The more power he can exert over you, the more times he thinks he can get you to come back to him, dismiss the cheating, etc. then to him that means you love him. The real things, the real love that you showed for him means nothing to him. As long as he can pull your strings, then you are useful to him. When that stops, you will cease to exist in his world....or in my case, he will hate your guts forever. Mine still hates me and refers to me as Evil to this day because I went NC for good and moved on with my life without him. My life and happiness didn't depend on him in any way, and that is the cornerstone of all of this nonsense they put us through. "Is it possible that he does love me (I just can't believe that after outing him to his family he still wants me) and just doesn't know how to act in a loving responsible way?" No, I don't believe it is possible at all. And I think 99% of everyone else here who have been recovering on this board would tell you the same thing. Why does it seem like he still wants you? Because as you said yourself, the final D&D hasnt come. Yet. But if it did, it would only be very painful for you because he would be acting out on revenge and trying to gain the upper hand. To regain his grand illusion of power. The sooner you realize the nature of the beast, the faster you will recover. These people are truly sick and perverse beyond most people's levels of understanding.....and it just doesn't matter why (traumatic childhood, past abusive relationships, genetics, etc.)It just matters that they are not fixable. I hope you go on in your life and worry only about nurturing yourself...not him. He's got a mommy and perhaps she blew it, but its now up to him to straighten up and fly right, if he's up to it. Sending out HUGS and (REAL) Love to you!!!!!! Take care of yourself!
Apr 13 - 6PM (Reply to #10)
dazed and seeki...
dazed and seeking peace and strength's picture

ShaynasMommy, Thanks for

ShaynasMommy, Thanks for this - I probably need the straight up real deal kick in the butt. He doesn't love. He doesn't know how. I have to accept that and stop hanging on to this hope that his words entice me with. It's like his words are filling some hole that needs filling after I was left so empty from this relationship. Thanks for this. :)
Apr 13 - 10AM
victimnomore
victimnomore's picture

I will tell

I will tell you what i have experienced. I was /am married to the N/P for 25 years. I do not believe they are capable of love. We truly love and feel empathy and compassion for people. They use people as a means to an end. They like to have you believe they love you. I wish I had left first and did not have to go through the D&D. This was the worst and most painful experience of my life. I outed the Narc to his family and our religious leader and all of his so called friends once. I told them everything and some very embarrassing things He did not care he still chased after me until I took him back and boy why did I do that. It took him two years to get back with me and he abused me worst than ever. It felt as if he was punishing me for outing him and he was gonna destroy me before he D&D'd me again. I would not trust him. He is not capable of love. They are users and abusers and if he cheated all of those times before he will cheat again. Trust me, I know. 25 years of the same BS and he never changed and he never will. I hope this help you.

victimnomore

Apr 13 - 6PM (Reply to #8)
dazed and seeki...
dazed and seeking peace and strength's picture

victimnomore, I am sorry you

victimnomore, I am sorry you went through so much pain. Ugh. Even after outing him to all of those people?! I wanted to out him to even more people - part of out anger, part out of desperate hope for him to change. Either way, I thought outing him to his family would do it - break him from me. Sometimes I WANT the D&D - I feel like I wouldn't be strung along the way I am right now. When I read about your experience along with the other women who have experienced the full blown D&D, I know I will be absolutely devastated, and I just can't reconcile what I know with how I feel. I hate this. I wish he would leave me alone. My heart aches each time I see his emails to me.
Apr 13 - 10AM
ABC0311
ABC0311's picture

OK-

I think that they can love you but not in the same way that YOU love someone. I think mine loved me as much as he could possibly love me BUT his love was limited and at the end of the day he comes first. Also, I didn't feel the same D&D that lots of people felt on here. I chose to leave. I think his D&D was much more subtle and he just kind of pulled away during the relationship and didn’t put any effort into it. Same thing as D&D but much more subtle. Someone posted this awhile back when I was going through a rough patch and it really have me a “WOW!” moment. I’m hoping that maybe this will help you…. http://www.sarahtateauthor.com/cluster-b's.html
Apr 13 - 7PM (Reply to #6)
dazed and seeki...
dazed and seeking peace and strength's picture

I think I am seriously stuck

I think I am seriously stuck between stages 4 and 5 and I need to get shoved into stage 5. :(
Apr 13 - 6PM (Reply to #5)
dazed and seeki...
dazed and seeking peace and strength's picture

ABC, thanks for the link. It

ABC, thanks for the link. It did help to read this. It made clear that the N stays the same, the only thing I can control is myself. My N hasn't pulled away. He cheated on me but was still trying full force to "fix" us and to show he could change. He seemed to really want to change, but I knew after a while he couldn't - not while he didn't accept his mistakes. He knew what his shortcomings were, but had a really hard time facing himself. I guess that's been really hard for me - I feel like I have to walk away from a man who is trying so hard for me but failing so badly. It's like no more points for effort. I can't be with a cheater and a liar. And an abuser. :( It's still sad for me though, and while I am not acting on it and I feel much better than I did 5 months ago, I still don't know how to take his emails.
Apr 13 - 10AM (Reply to #4)
ShaynasMommy
ShaynasMommy's picture

exactly ABC

"I think mine loved me as much as he could possibly love me BUT his love was limited and at the end of the day he comes first." Just like I have said previously, just like a toddler would think. They always come first. The difference being that when you stop giving your energy to an ungrateful child, that's usually when they learn to respect you and start playing the game more maturely. Not so with a Narc. They just lose interest and (hopefully) move on.
Apr 13 - 10AM (Reply to #2)
Arwen
Arwen's picture

I also left on my own

Yeah for me I just basically left when I found about OW and indictment and his other gross behavior, bigotry, stupid cruel comments about others, etc, smoking so much, and when I challenged him and when I told him I was thinking of getting a divorce from my husband,, he started calling less and less and it was never a real breakup on his part. Of course he was pushing me to leave I see now, or at least I think he was, but he kept saying "I love you" on the phone when he called. He seemed so conflicted about calling though and he also didn't ask to see me. I will never know what was going on, ever. But I knew that the treatment he was giving me was not acceptable at all and was hurting the hell out of me so I cut him off FB and that was it. The D&D came more in the form of a nasty awful call from him - angry that I had cut him off, etc.
Apr 13 - 7PM (Reply to #3)
JLMNY1
JLMNY1's picture

Love

I believe my exN BELIEVES he loves, even though he doesn't and can't express what love really is. When he said he loved me, up until the day we had the pre-break up talk (he was just prepping me for the fall- he had it all planned out) he basically said, "I love you BUT." and the rest was all my fault. When my exN was in the relationship, he truly believed he was showing love and acting like he loved. But when we had the pre-break up talk and I explained that when you love someone you want to work out your problems (we had MINOR problems other than the narc stuff) he couldn't grasp it. He said I was living in a fairy tale for thinking that. He's to the core selfish, as all Narc's are. He actually goes around and TELLS PEOPLE that just because you're married, doesn't mean you have to stay with them forever. You can leave anytime. Which is what he did to his ex wife (completely caught her off guard, gave her a D&D faster than he did me), what he did to me, and what he'll continue to do. When the relationship doesn't meet his unrealistic expectiations, he'll leave. That's not love.