"Narcissists are passive aggressive like a dog who licks your face while he pees on your leg."

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#1 Nov 26 - 10AM
Lisa E. Scott
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"Narcissists are passive aggressive like a dog who licks your face while he pees on your leg."

This is one of the best analogies I have ever seen.....

"Narcissists are passive aggressive like a dog who licks your face while he pees on your leg."

and

a great article that's a must-read:

Self-centeredness harms relationshipsHumboldt Beacon
Posted: 11/24/2010 10:58:40 AM PST

By Rebecca Kimble DTM

Is it selfish control, egotism or just plain narcissism? It doesn't matter how you label it - the effects are the same. When a person thinks the world revolves around them, when they are irrational, frustrated and angry when they don't get what they want, they may win now, but in the long run their selfishness makes them heavy losers.

The best of friends, families and partners eventually with draw from an egotist whose destructive words and actions confirm what others feel, need or loose means nothing to them. Pulling away emotionally precedes pulling away physically. People will stay in emotionally destructive relationships for financial and family needs, but they pay a high price in their lack of emotional fulfillment.

Recognizing selfish egotism beneath the initial charm is important if you are looking for a meaningful relationship. In your search for lasting love, avoid the following traits.

Egocentrics have a need to discredit others to make themselves appear better. Be aware, if they do this to others they will do it to you when it becomes convenient.

They expect and demand excessive and unwarranted admiration. Egotists will talk loud take front center stage and override others. They require constant attention. They expect to be catered to and admired. They are important and it won't be too long before you realize that you aren't.

They flaunt self aggrandizement, inflated self esteem, bragging, claiming they are smarter, more capable, braver or even holier than others.

Egocentric people are envious, but they project that others are envious of them. They envy qualities they lack and seek to diminish those qualities in others. They are passive aggressive like a dog who licks your face while he pees on your leg.

They claim superiority, use it as “right” of entitlement and create a dual standard where the rules apply to you, but not to them. They take advantage of others for their own objectives. They rationalize, justify or deny, but their actions betray them.

Relationships with narcissists are intellectually draining. They have no desire to honestly communicate. They will intimidate, accuse and rewrite history, but they won't yield their manipulative position and communicate.

Egocentric people are emotionally draining. Those who live with them start shutting their emotions down, turning their feelings off and when they don't feel any more, they don't care any more either.

Narcissists are as careless about assets as they are about feelings and needs. Don't imagine you can change them. Egocentric people are emotionally immature. Until they actually understand what they are destroying, they will continue to believe they are “winning.” They don't emotionally connect. Most of them die lonely even if they are surrounded by people.

http://www.humboldtbeacon.com/ci_16702223

Nov 27 - 9PM
Briseis
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Betty says; Regardless, when

Betty says; Regardless, when you know that your behaviors and actions are not acceptable and you harm others, you are 100% responsible for all of the damage and destruction you create. This is true for all of us, even the victims of pathological people. We are human beings, too, and it is only a partial truth that we had NO responsibility during the time that we were with the Narc. Adult human beings cannot be fully victimized, as a child can be, or an adult vulnerable because of developmental delay or a psychotic mental illness. All the while, we were actively making choices. The same as everyone else. We were brainwashed and duped and manipulated with our deepest fears, but we still CHOSE our responses to the Narc. You can't NOT choose, not choosing is a choice. The hard part is seeing where the Narc's responsibility ends and our's begins. That is the tricky part of recovery. We have to find it or we remain in a victim mind set, with paranoia and reactivity, rather than calm, empowered action. It's an "advanced" recovery task to get in there and recognize how our own choices contributed to our abuse. I didn't say they CAUSED the abuse, but they certainly left us in the line of fire. I see it as the Narc is 100% to blame. But we the victims had a responsibility, to ourselves, that we abandoned. It is better to simply blame the Narc, it's a step forward, a huge step forward. I think all folks in early recovery need to really get INTO blaming the Narc, to break out of blaming yourself for what you could not have possibly had any control over. Namely, being abused by the Narc. All the abuse suffered is 100% the Narc's fault. We didn't cause or deserve one molecule of it. We did not bring it upon ourselves . . . except that we stayed. And why we stayed is because we believed at the time, our best choice was to stay. In our ignorance of NPD, our oppressed minds, brainwashing, our fear and constant devaluation, we made shitty choices for ourselves. They seem to be the ONLY choices at the time. We were blinded by our pain and suffering. In that, we are not to blame. It's just how people act when they are that oppressed.
Nov 27 - 9PM (Reply to #13)
Briseis
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Responsibility and blame are

Responsibility and blame are not the same thing at all. It's easy and natural to get them mixed up or believe they mean the same thing, but they don't. After being abused by a Narc, who believes in their heart we are to blame for their misery, it's no wonder "blame" and responsibility sound like interchangeable terms and SOMEONE is blaming the victim. Placing blame where it belongs is not the end of our recovery process. It is only a midway point. The next step is becoming empowered. And that is done by understanding how power between two people works. And how pretty much no matter what, unless we're talking physical torture, no one can make you DECIDE or CHOOSE against your will. A person can be fooled up to a certain point, but beyond that, if they continue to choose badly for themselves, they are in some kind of denial of a pathological thing happening in their lives. I know for myself I chose NOT to see. I didn't sit down and go "Hmm, I'm gonna choose NOT to see this". It just happened. The fear and pain were too much and I thought I was choosing less pain, not more. But all the while, I was choosing. Badly or well, I never stopped CHOOSING, powerfully, even in the depths of the worst times. Realizing that I chose all that time, however badly, informed me that I never stopped having power. And from this point forward, I could choose better. Armed with education about NPD, and about my own personal dynamics, I could make choices to carry me away and out into a better life.
Nov 27 - 11AM
betty2020
betty2020's picture

Great article Lisa!! Living

Great article Lisa!! Living lonely and dying lonely. What a meaningless existence to us. But to them, is it? I recently had the privilege of coming across a PD that was seeking answers to her strange behaviors and lack of empathy. She was wondering what category of cluster Bs PD she fell into. Of course no one can official diagnosis this other than those professionals that deal in this specific area but I gave her my opinion because I thought that she was seeking out help. Although I found it strange that she could see there is something not right with her, i felt the need to explain that their is no known cure and she would need specialized therapy for this. Her response was as follows: "To be honest I like the way I am, I don't get hurt, lonely, rely on anyone but myself, I don't get my heart broken, cry, feel sad or depressed...." "I guess I don't want a "cure" as such but an explanation as to why I can't feel things that others feel." So with this being said, It addresses the issue of suffering. It is very likely if not for certain, that PDIs will never suffer because They never experience "real" emotions of any sorts, joy, pain, love, loss and loneliness. Only through experiencing joy can we understand pain, only through experiencing true love can we experience loss, loneliness and pain. She is perplexed obviously at why this is, however she does not feel that she is missing out b/c she does not understand what it is like to feel any of these human emotions. You dont miss what you never had or experienced i suppose. I dont know why but this made me very sad. Pity really for those who live in a meaningless world void of any real connection to human kind. Thank you again...your timing is always so perfect. xoxo only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

Nov 27 - 12PM (Reply to #5)
Used
Used's picture

betty

You dont miss what you never had or experienced i suppose. I dont know why but this made me very sad. Pity really for those who live in a meaningless world void of any real connection to human kind. betty, i had this convo with someone once, where she said what a terrible thing to miss out on these emotions ,and i too said how can you miss what you have never felt, but as time has gone on and i have become more aware of things, i feel diffrently in that, if they dont feel these feelings why? re who you talked too, why would she know she doesnt, you have to experience some sort of emotion to know that you dont have it, can you understand what i mean.. and something else with narcs i know ,they are all cowards and spinless, they are feelings arent they....bottom line ,narcs are greedy and covertous, jealous and possesive ,and go from person to person[only my view] b/c they are so afraid of missing out on anything... if she was unfeeling and as unemotional as this woman says she is, why would she even care about wanting to know why?, a robot doesnt care, how can it its not human. ihave always had a hard time believing they feel nothing..
Nov 27 - 1PM (Reply to #10)
betty2020
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Point so well taken Used.

Point so well taken Used. Obviously they do experience some emotion to some degree or so is appears. But is it true emotion or simply a reaction or mimicked response? I do believe that they have developed a very keen sense on how to identify what all of these human emotions look like on the outside world. In other words, they are able to quickly pick up signals thorough gestures and expressions of others that lets them know that an emotion is taking place. Not that they can emotionally connect or feel what this person is actually feeling but they study this b/c it is something that they may need to pull out of their bag of tricks down the road, so therefore it grabs their attention. They will mimic what ever that emotion is and at the appropriate time that it will work for them to produce maximum results in their favor. This is what they have studied through out their years in order to learn to adapt in society. If they never did this, it would appear to the outside world as if they are not human and yes "a robot". Most would run for the hills. Now the question is, do they feel something when they are experiencing anger, rage, loath and discontent from the world not conforming to their unrealistic standards? They are the best at displaying these emotions. As we know, their behavior when they dont get their way is to the liking of a 3 year old. Is this a behavioral response based on a true feeling or emotion or just simply the mimicked reaction that they learned will produce results???? Interesting study and topic of conversation. Can be triggering as some may be lead to think this releases them from all behavioral responsibility as a PD. It is very obvious to me by this female PD that although she expresses she can not feel, her remaining faculties are still in tact to know that her behavior is not appropriate to society standards and a cause for discontentment to others, or she would not question herself to begin with obviously. Therefore she IS responsible. When you know the difference between right and wrong, it makes your responsible for your choices. Does she care? Absolutely not. Just another case in point that supports the claim of "NO CURE"... only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

Nov 27 - 2PM (Reply to #11)
Used
Used's picture

betty

thankyou for your answer, and i also logged on to rnfb, i think lol, and saw on the profile, i can see clearly now, used aah, and i felt a little frission of realy belonging, it was lovely.thankyou. i watch a nd read a lot about s/p,s, and not one i have ever read about has questioned themselves, where your bpd and my narc has,and this is what i dont understand about them. thankyou again betty for answer and wordsxxxx
Nov 27 - 1PM (Reply to #6)
Briseis
Briseis's picture

This is just what I think .

This is just what I think . . . people like this have very vestigial, barely "there" shadows of feelings. Since their brains are demonstrably different (in special kinds of scans), it's like instead of a full arm or leg, they have a little nub that SHOULD have been an arm or leg, but never developed. It's in the right place . . . it is attached and might wiggle a little. That's how true feelings are for a Narc or other PDI. Barely there, not functional, just a shadow. I can imagine this woman Betty talks about just being "curious" like a snake is curious. It is not a very sophisticated thing to be curious. Most living creatures are curious, unless they are a sea sponge. Even earthworms are curious, when you hold them in your hand they poke their "head" around looking for somewhere to burrow into. I just find it almost impossible to accept that a human being can exist and NOT feel. I am empathic but that stretches my empathy beyond the beyonds. There's a saying Lisa's thread title makes me think of by my dear grandma : "He's the kind of fellow who will shake your hand while pissing in your pocket" :D Rock on, Gramma :)
Nov 27 - 2PM (Reply to #8)
Used
Used's picture

bresies

just find it almost impossible to accept that a human being can exist and NOT feel. I am empathic but that stretches my empathy beyond the beyonds. this is what i think i was trying to say, i agree with you totally. i believe[to simplyfy it....these people have opted out. its not b/c the havent got feeling , they are cowards and they choose not to have them. bresies, i know i sound delusional BUT i am still going to say this... i will never believe my narc had no feeling for me...not b/c of his i love you,s, not b/c he cried and begged or cajolded, none of these things connected me to him, it was a feeling i had and still have to this day.
Nov 27 - 9PM (Reply to #9)
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

used

I agree with you on this one. They feel something though its not anything like what we feel. Its like their feelings are in another language. The weirdest thing is I feel like its opposite land feelings. When they are raging at you is when they are mad because they have feelings for you which makes them feel vulnerable and when they are nice saying I love you and smoozing you they are really seething at you. It so weird.
Nov 27 - 2PM (Reply to #7)
betty2020
betty2020's picture

"shadows of feelings" you

"shadows of feelings" you may be on to something with this. I find it so hard to accept and believe as well, but evidence supports the claim which is why i am curious to study this deeper as this was such a struggle for me in the beginning. I really found it hard to move on in recovery because the thought of him being incapable of understanding my pain caused by his behaviors and abuse. It made me angry beyond belief. How can anyone cause such damage and destruction and never even realize what they have done???.. But i suppose this fPDI proves this. She is aware of her bad behavior or she would never seek answers such as this. Now whether she cares or not is really not the issue. The issue for me is can I hold her accountable for her actions? And for that I say yes. Regarless, when you know that your behaviors and actions are not acceptable and you harm others, you are 100% responsible for all of the damage and destruction you create. I believe in redemption and I believe in forgiveness. But only with those who acknowledge their wrongs, correct their mistakes and avoid creating further harm or destruction. For those who acknowledge and refuse to face the consequence of their actions, they are owed nothing in my book. But I must accept that this is the way it will be and let it go so I dont become toxic to myself. This has always been the way i see this. Right or wrong, it is the only way i can process it. Whether it a shadow or non existent. Lack of emotion or connectedness with human kind is obvious something that most will turn and run from in the end. xoxo only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

Nov 26 - 11PM
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Intellectually draining

"Relationships with narcissists are intellectually draining. They have no desire to honestly communicate"- That's EXACTLY what I felt like with the ex-Psych professor. I wanted a teacher/student relationship that was at the least intellectually fulfilling, even if it did NOT lead to romance and marriage. That was the prime source of my frustration. The ex-psychopath professor played himself up as a philosopher and a teacher.... and he was fraudulent at both. I WANTED to discuss philosophy with him, he portrayed himself as a Wittgenstein expert... but he'd get condescending and act as if I weren't smart enough to discuss Wittgenstein. To make matters worse, he thought women were incapable of being philosophers. "Egocentric people are emotionally immature"- That would explain why, 9 years after abandoning the ex-P (by leaving town without telling anyone), I told him how successful and happy I am, and made some parallels between him and my baby nephew (since my brother in-law and the ex-P's father have the SAME NAME, talk about coincidences) Leaving him was betrayal enough... guess I had to add a swift kick in the teeth while he was down, speaking of him "loving his Daddy" and "throwing temper tantrums." Well, at least I didn't throw in breastfeeding, bedwetting, and diapers....
Nov 26 - 11AM
solost
solost's picture

This is

"You're gonna die lonely". This is exactly what I told him several times before I even knew what narcissism was. I could just feel it in my soul cuz I saw how he was using and then pushing (discarding) me away. Repeatedly.He would just look at me and smile, or just not react at all.
Nov 26 - 11AM
onwithmylife
onwithmylife's picture

hi Lisa

what a POWERFUL article that is. They will die ALONE, just like my EXN will do someday, with no one to care if he lives or dies. And i really like the statement made,"until they actually understand what they are destoying, they will contiue to believe they are "winning." That sentence is now engrained in my brain forever, that is exactly how these people operate, I remember asking him some years ago, would you rather be right or happy, the word right was immediately out of his mouth and look at him now, delusional,alone, paranoid,"never step foot on my property or I will get you for stalking," only in his wildest dreams,maybe one day he will BEG ME to step on his property!!!