I'm glad you could get the last laugh! Coward - yes. That is the word that I feel is the most descriptive in summing up my narc if I had to choose only one.
My exN discards everyone and everything that requires him to confront his behavior - or so it seems.
He abandoned me a few times throughout our relationship in cruel and heartless ways and I forgave him believing his weakness was temporary and under it there was a soul worth loving.
I put up with covert abuse in a way that I normally never would have because I tried to love unconditionally and because of the 'rightness' in our connection, believed there was a higher purpose to the difficulty in maintaining a positive and loving peace within myself with him.
I had no idea his 'problems' with intimacy stemmed from an actual disorder, or that his ease at detaching was because he doesn't have the capacity to feel deeply.
He said he didn't wanted to be dependent on anyone or anything else for his happiness ever again - as if he was capable of attaching to another to experience the joy (and heartache) of true love at one time previously in his life.
That confused me because I didn't want ours to be an unhealthy attachment, but I did want him to care enough to see our togetherness as something worth holding onto in his life.
I guess I'm lucky he chose not to. It just hasn't felt that way.
Journey on...
Maybe I am an agent of karma! *flashes badge*
My brother in-law, as well as the ex-Psych professor's father... have the SAME first name. My baby nephew is growing up in Massachusetts, like the ex-P did. Come to your own conclusions and see where those jokes would go.
The ex-P heartlessly and cruelly abandoned me when my grandfather died... he treated it like a big joke. He'd mock me during class. He thought my tears made me "look like a cartoon character" (according to one of his young male groupies) When a pastor friend of mine died from cancer, the ex-P was still quite cruel during the final D&D, if not crueler, he didn't let up... and to top it off, he flaunted his girlfriend in front of me, still wanting to be the center of attention.
When I told the ex-P that my love for him was unconditional, he treated it like I was putting on an act. He'd reduce me to tears publicly, engage in public humiliation, then say "I'm sorry YOU feel that way" and "You're embarrassing yourself." He refused to take ANY responsibility for his actions. No wonder I said sarcastically later with the smuggest smile I could muster, "How MANLY you are. Refusing to be accountable for your actions." He even fessed up to the fact he doesn't respect students as human beings. Yes, I had him backed into a corner. He was mine (no, thank God not in THAT way)
I called him a lying, arrogant bully to his face... and on a Wittgenstein postcard I sent a couple of years later after my *disappearing act*.....
He told me about his masturbation habit. How can I use that? Send shirtless pics of Matthew Morrison (who stars as the Narc teacher Mr. Will Schuester on GLEE?)
I may not be an agent of karma... but I guess I am a Bruce Lee when it comes to dealing out Narc injuries.
No teacher wants to be compared to a toddler. Especially one with a major personality disorder. Who hates children. Ouch.
That is truly awful; I’m sorry to read that your exN used such things as part of his arsenal.
I agree with you that on the surface his philosophy makes sense BUT only in some very small parts. And he’s oh so conveniently missing the rest of the picture. And if he is attempting to claim a Buddhist style enlightenment and “The Path of Non-Attachment” then I’m sorry but he is full of fucking narc bullshit.
The Buddhist concept of non-attachment is NOT about abandoning people, not getting close to them, not loving them, being separate from, distant from etc., or completely without responsibility for how you affect others. Its really rather the opposite & the theory that “attachment” causes suffering relates only to insecure / clingy attachment or craving. And the whole thing is tied into the concept of unity & connection in everything & with everybody & encouraging that healthy & secure connection. Oh, and that whole concept of compassion….that little nugget seems to be entirely missing from his fucking philosophy.
Ah sorry, I’m having a rant but aargh. I have actually read before that some people use Buddhist notions, without understanding them – without even caring or trying to understand them, to rid themselves of responsibilities in their life and call it spiritual enlightenment. And damn if your exN isn’t just personifying that.
He is one nasty f**ker.
And there is NO truth to what he said Journey. You loved this man truly & deeply. You stuck with him even when he hurt you. YOU are the enlightened one. He is a fucking con-man who is using & abusing snippets from religious ideology and the beliefs in your own heart & soul to justify his absolutely appalling behaviour.
That is one of the utterly lowest forms of manipulation a human is capable of.
And it hits so hard because the feelings WE felt for the Ns in these relationships were real, were true, were honorable.
I too felt deep joy & and an almost innate sense of “rightness” & “connection” with my exN – like with him I was where I belonged, I was “home.” I truly sometimes thought it was almost like we knew each other before; we were two peas in a pod. When I was younger I remember asking my mother how she knew that my father was the man she wanted to spend the rest of her life with [they met & were married in their early 20s & had a wonderful friendship & relationship] – she told me that when you fall in love you “just know.” I thought that the feeling I sometimes had with my exN was that – that Knowing.
And I continued to feel it even alongside all the other feelings & awareness. Even after I caught him cheating the first time, stealing money from me the first time, lying to me the first time…. I just somehow managed to swallow those things & bury them down deep. In hindsight I realise just how desperate I was to believe – believe in such a thing of someone you’re just “meant to be with” – but mostly, that feeling of true and deep connection; that one person you carry around in your heart wherever you are & you can almost feel them standing alongside you [in a good way!] even if you’re half a world apart.
ExN of course [!!] felt Just The Same. He’d never felt connected to anyone like this in his whole life. It was magic. Huh. It was for me. But for him, it was just part of the script. The last woman I caught him cheating with was receiving exactly the same performance – word for fucking word [yes, I looked through his phone….]
And in the huge learning curve that has been such a huge part of my life over the past year, I’ve come to discover that that feeling of fundamental connection is something personality disordered individuals are masters at manufacturing. Whether conscious or not, they are able to behave in a way that sparks it in us. Mine was adept at shape-shifting & mirroring and I’ve realized that a lot of the connection I felt was just because he was reflecting & adopting my views, opinions, thoughts – and was very, very quick to work me out so he could act that role & I was all too ready to believe it.
I think this whole experience for us is more than making a foolish choice. I do think it is to educate us about personality disorders [just in case there is a bigger psychopath coming our way as you say!!]; but I also think this experience helps teach us lessons about ourselves. About how we view ourselves, other people [narcs & non-narcs both] and life. And that’s where I think the real value is – those examinations & lessons. For me, a lot of that has involved that big issue….Boundaries! And I’m learning more & more each day and realizing just how much of my life has been affected by my lack of boundaries. I’m learning about guilt, “compulsive helping” sense of duty & responsibility etc. that I’ve adopted, a great deal I now believe due to growing up with a sister with borderline PD [another lesson I’ve had since my research & experience with exN]. I could go on & on but my point is that I’m learning about things that affect me & my whole life – not just the exN or future Ns – and I’d have learnt none of it if it hadn’t been for the narc. I do believe some things do come into our lives for a reason – or at least there is a reason / positive that can come out of it if we are willing.
Please try to believe how much of your exN’s behaviour and attitude is a con. There is NO spiritual failure on your behalf. Your N has absolutely no notion or understanding of what unconditional love & acceptance truly is. He simply doesn’t….he’s a narc. He cannot lecture you on that. He cannot lecture anyone on that. But you? Journey? You? I’ve read many of your posts & comments over the past weeks-months. You are an absolutely beautiful person with an amazing soul & a truly wonderful & generous heart. And you are such a deep & considered thinker. YOU are the enlightened one – and I’m not just saying that to sound nice or reassuring. I’ve learnt so much from things you’ve written on here, been able to relate to so many things & have thought to myself several times “Gee Journey really hits the nail on that.” And his fucking philosophy is that of a spoilt child, patching together a bunch of seemingly “enlightened” crap to justify him getting everything Just The Way He Wants….with no responsibility for anything. That is the antithesis of true enlightenment.
Eckart Tolle has some good words there….especially “if there isn’t….openness toward all beings, then it is not enlightenment.”
Ava xxxoo
A girl after my own heart....
I agree with you that on the surface his philosophy makes sense BUT only in some very small parts. And he’s oh so conveniently missing the rest of the picture. And if he is attempting to claim a Buddhist style enlightenment and “The Path of Non-Attachment” then I’m sorry but he is full of fucking narc bullshit.
Well said!
Your comment made me weep, but in a good, validating kind of way - a HUGE hug to you for that!
What you said:
"I too felt deep joy & and an almost innate sense of “rightness” & “connection” with my exN – like with him I was where I belonged, I was “home.” I truly sometimes thought it was almost like we knew each other before; we were two peas in a pod. When I was younger I remember asking my mother how she knew that my father was the man she wanted to spend the rest of her life with [they met & were married in their early 20s & had a wonderful friendship & relationship] – she told me that when you fall in love you “just know.” I thought that the feeling I sometimes had with my exN was that – that Knowing."
That is EXACTLY what I felt. I even told him that I felt like I was 'home' with him - as if everything in my life and all my previous relationships had prepared me for the time I would be ready to meet him - to be able to share and enjoy the truest and most complete love that finally came into my life. I'd never felt so sure about anyone before and I too believed in the validity of 'that knowing'.
I'm so glad comments I've made on this board have helped you to understand some of the issues as you've said and I can't express in words how very much your post here has helped me today!!! Thank you! xxxx
Journey on...
The ex-Psych professor lectured others. When I saw he gave a lecture on happiness, I was LOLing... yeah, the same guy who cruelly ridiculed me when my grandfather died. Cruelly mocked my family. Who was condescending and patronizing. Claimed to be a philosopher, but gave me the silent treatment when I tried philosophical discussion. Claimed to be a Wittgenstein expert but wouldn't talk about Wittgenstein. He mocked my feelings... when my feelings were honorable, real, and true. He claimed to love me with divine love, when he was trashing my reputation and making me miserable.
He's one of the few people I'd tell that I am ENTITLED to their apology. My former Narc boss wasn't an angel, he was a micro-manager, he engaged in bullying behaviors, and while an apology would be nice from him (but I don't expect it, I went NC) I wouldn't even tell my former Narc boss that. Because he's not that deserving.
His lecture about happiness was all about the virtues of passivity. Yes, passivity is BIG among Ns/Ps.
My N had 'spiritual talk' down. Mine is a professor of philosophy & reads psychology all the time. Hence, he has acquired the tools to manipulate others. Mindf**k! Yeah, it all makes sense on the surface. But they twist & manipulate it all to get the victim to volunteer for abuse. An episode of verbal abuse & a circular argument can become a "communication problem" which both partners are responsible for 50-50. He minimizes his abuse & gets the partner to accept responsibility & even get the partner to believe that verbal abuse & circular arguments are normal & that she has to change somehow to lessen the intensity (after all she is 50% responsible for the "communiucation problem").
Mine insisted that we do family therapy. He probably had read more on the subject than her, was certainly smarter than her, and he thought that he could use her to control me--proxy abuse. And he did, at home it was for example: "The therapist says, I'm flooded & need a 'time out' to gather my emotions together." So he had a viable & certifiable excuse to NOT speak to me for three days, i.e, according to him the therapist justified the Silent Treatment. Training me to accept that THREE days of silence is normal so as to cool off and reflect. But, if I refused to engage in an abusive episode or a circular argument because I recognized the verbal abuse, he would say: "The Therapist says you are 'stone walling' me. YOU are destroying our marriage by stonwalling me."
Gee. Ever wonder why I suffered from PTSD by the time I got out of there? It was healthy for him to give me the Silent Treatment for three days. It was unhealthy for me to refuse to engage him for an episode of verbal abuse. Nothing made sense! But, there I was, trying to make meaningful sense out of total nonsense because he used the lingo & the theory in such a way as to present a case that he who was totally INSANE was the healthiest & most sane person in the room. he was always telling me that I was "stupid & crazy." So, what is healthy is deemed unhealthy & the unhealthy is deemed healthy. This is the meaning of a "pathological" relationship. If the victim accepts the premises of the pathological against her better instincts she will become crazy.
Mine was also into Eastern philosophies. Had been to ashrams a lot. Also into New Age theories & went to those programs as well. Yeah, mine was into the "Sensitive Man" mask. I fell for it. The woman who replaced me was a psychiatrist & she fell for it too.
Be very careful. Eastern religions are taken by Westerners & transformed at the hands of 20th & 21st c new age theorists. These so-called new/ancient philosophies are perfect for Ns because all truth is derived from WITHIN the individual. Perfect for a N! He is the litmus test & arbitrator of truth.
Also, many religious & politcal figures are narcissists. Spouting all sorts of enlightment & visions for others. They know the way. History is littered with such visionaries who have abused the trust of their followers & believers. So the "Sensitive Man" N does not control an empire--all he controls is the woman whom he abuses. Good enough for him.
Thank you for your comment and more validation.
Mine also used the silent treatment as an excuse to 'process' his emotions. If I had difficulty accepting the cold distance from him during these times it was my problem for needing anything from him.
He accused me of trying to control or manipulate him for my own inner validation!
This experience is definitely teaching me something - lol!
Boundaries - I'd never understood the vital importance of having very firm and strong ones put into place before, but I will never overlook them as unessential ever again.
With the awareness I have now of personality disorders, I will be taking a second look at previously accepted beliefs I've naively trusted were shared because I've been told they were. Actions do speak louder - every time.
I will no longer trust that the honesty I live by is not held with the same reverence by others just because they say it is. Lying is not a concept that I've ever been comfortable with doing and it always astounds me how others can lie so easily for their own selfish gain without caring about living true to themselves and others.
Journey on...
I spent a better part of the day reading all I could about rosicurians...?
Not sure what to think, trying to find the meaning of it all, but am not a fan of organized religion.
The one universal thing I found was that the foundation to it all NO MATTER WHAT you believe in is LOVE...and boy is that a hard topic to narrow down...what is it.
I agree with Brieseis...they manipulate...but for a moment, lets bring it back to us...the heck with them...
And please bear in mind when I say what I'm going to say, I've only been reading about two days - I'm not well versed...
But if you believe in the soul - and most religious/spritual practices do...
We each have a journey...there is light and there is dark.
Sometimes certain experiences are a means for a spiritual awakening - or a calling to further development *Thomas Moore/Dark Night of the Soul - which I skimmed on Amazon...
BUT - the manner in which my stuff played out - I'm at some kind of peace well not peace, but looking at it as more of a bigger picture kind of thing...to focus on the Narc makes this whole experience almost microscopic in terms of the bigger picture...I only realized this by tapping in...and now there are a lot of revelations that are becomming clear?
And its hard and there is still obscurity but there is a pull forward now?
So now, I've made a decision to look at him from the vantage point of soul to soul.
When you look at it that way, theirs is dark...if they choose they may come into light but they have a journey of their own, they are less developed...
We as women have been given the gift of intuition...we are nurturers, life givers, carriers of light...and interesting to note...the FIRST thing created was LIGHT...our creator said let there be light...
BUT, MAN in recording doctrine...and for me...MYTH...MAN was created first before women...YET the truth is we are the ones who bring forth life and carry LIGHT...SO...
I don't know enough about all of this...these are just some early connections I'm making...
BUT, perhaps diving more into the spiritual with this scenario might bring about more clarity about all of it and will allow you ease of detachment...
All of us here disordered or not have a journey and I don't believe any experience is in vain?...it's what we make of it. It can consume and destroy or we can tap into our strength and use it to our advantage.
I am not a fan of organized religion either. I wasn't raised with it and found spirituality as I matured from various influences in my life. I often try to see the bigger picture and don't usually have too much trouble doing so.
The hard part is distinguishing now the deep joy I felt with N to the pain and damage I've had to endure because of it.
The coincidences and feeling of 'rightness' took me by surprise when I met him and I felt compelled to trust the connection.
I followed this feeling believing it was my instinct telling me to. Even when his mask slipped and I saw the one who could hurt me, I would often check in with my intuition and thought I was still following it by staying and loving him.
It is just so hard to chalk it all up to nothing more that making a foolish choice by picking a disordered man to fall in love with.
Who knows, perhaps N came along just to educate me about personality disorders because there will be a more dangerous psychopath who will cross my path in the future and I will now know how to avoid falling prey to THAT one - lol!
It could be an alternate future reality I'll never know for sure, but a reason if I did know, to be grateful for my Narc experience.
In recovery, I am trying to take anything and everything i can from the pain to propel me toward healing and growth. I do appreciate any simple pleasure these days that lifts my spirit.
Thanks for your input Michele. I like the fact that your posts of late are focused more on us than on them.
Journey on...
Argh, disgusting :(
There have been quite a few threads on religion and Narcs, or spirituality and Narcs. I've known many women who are married to Narcs who use Christianity to further victimize them, quoting scripture to rationalize enforced submissiveness for instance.
It's a particularly DISGUSTING thing that Narcs do every day.
It doesn't have to be spirituality or religion. It can be any kind of ideology or concept. Some of the worst Narc abuse I endured was from my boss, a PhD psychologist. He was deadly with the psychobabble, it seemed to make sense coming out of his mouth. Later on, I realized it made no sense at all because of what motivated him to say it.
So when you say of your exNarc: On the surface the philosophy makes sense, but doesn't this just sound like the perfect narc handbook to justify to themselves and others their detached emotions and selfish behavior?
His philosophy does NOT make sense, considering the underlying motivations he has and it IS the perfect venue for exploitation.
When I first met my Narc he was a devout Christian. I mistook his intensity as "devotion", and his dramatics as "a true connection to God" and his, erm, INSANITY as indicating he was indeed a spiritually enlightened person. Boy did I have a lot to learn :(
I'm terribly cynical now about people who go about professing "enlightenment" or being "deeply spiritual". First, anyone who professes such a thing is NO such thing.
First and foremost, Journey, he is a NARC. That trumps everything else he says or does. For that reason alone whatever he said to you about ANYTHING is null and void. Really.
If there was ANY truth to any of it, you'll find out eventually. Who knows, they say you can put 100 monkeys on typewriters and you might get the Gettysburg Address. You won't miss a THING if you toss it all out in the trash. The truth is a force apart from the Narc and if you want to know it, it will find you :)
When you said "His philosophy does NOT make sense, considering the underlying motivations he has and it IS the perfect venue for exploitation."
That is what has been so difficult for me. It was a year after the final D&D before I suspected his behavior to be caused by a disorder so I had no idea about any underlying motivations that would be different than what mine would be in relation to that type of Buddhist like thinking.
He doesn't so much profess to be enlightened, he just talks about the importance of non-attachment as a way to get there.
I've often read in books regarding spiritual and personal growth many of the things he would say which reinforces the fear of failure on my part for not being stronger or able to do that.
Even a recent thread on this forum posted by Michele about the importance of non-attachment (which made perfect sense to me and I agree with), triggered the pain. It plants the seeds of doubt that he might not be disordered and I am the one who just couldn't be emotionally healthy enough in our relationship for it to flourish rather than disintegrate as it did.
I do know his treatment of me was not one of a healthy partner a lot of the time, but it is hard to see clearly still because of all the brain washing, trauma bonding, covert abuse - you name it. I'm slowly becoming aware of just how damaging it all was to me, but until very recently I had believed there was more good than bad in the relationship. I've been in a fog for a long time.
Thank you for the validation your response has given me.
Journey on...
You said:
Even a recent thread on this forum posted by Michele about the importance of non-attachment (which made perfect sense to me and I agree with), triggered the pain. It plants the seeds of doubt that he might not be disordered and I am the one who just couldn't be emotionally healthy enough in our relationship for it to flourish rather than disintegrate as it did.
You may be better versed than I am, I'm only now delving...
BUT, what I'm finding is that everything I'm reading and I'm reading all kinds of things the bottom line to all of it is love...
NOW - you say that the pain was triggered because of detaching...
OH boy...this is gonna be a trip to try to break down, but I'll try...I like to rationalize when it hurts too much...LMAO!
Okay - We've been conditioned as women in society to believe love is certain things...and a lot of it...for lack of a better word...propaganda, hype!
Men have been brainwashed too...
As humans, I don't think we can even begin to touch on love...pure love. The best analogy - and I used this the other day, although I don't do drugs...TRUE love...probably the same as PURE heroin...so overwhelming, powerful...it is GOD it is the UNIVERSE...we can't as humans, even touch "TRUE" love...but attaining that level, is what the journey is about...getting closer and closer to it...and perhaps we've lived past lives, and have more lives to go?...I don't know?...BUT - with our limited ability...we try to get as close to it as we can.
NOW...LOVE is not in the mind...nor is it in the heart...it's in the soul. And I believe man for hundereds and thousands of years has tried to explain this and has come up with many a philosophy, religion, ritual, practice to all explain the same thing...so this is not in conflict with anything one might believe religiously...I suspect...
BUT...if you're buying any of this kool-aid...on a spiritual level...whether he is disordered by definition or not, or whether or not you are "evolved" enough spiritually that is not the point.
We all interpret things differently...there is no right or wrong...the bottom line however, is that all actions should be rooted in love. Now, many will "exploit" beliefs, religion, philosophy and all that good stuff - they can recite quotes, jargon, debate philosophically - but what is their soul speaking? What are their actions speaking? Are their actions emanating love or selfishness? love or manipulation? love or vanity? love or self centeredness?
Love has so many different aspects to it...impossible to comprehend, document, verbalize, in it's purity...in it's completeness...but on the level we operate on...there are basics we can grasp...
It is not one sided, it is attachment and detachment, but it's not possession or obsession or control. It's not rage, it's not mindgames, it's not gaslighting, it's not using "principals" of love to exploit, to hurt or to harm...it is light...it is peace, it is serenity, it is wholeness...of the self and its presence also brings light, and healing to others...it is an energy.
It's not passion, it's not lust, it's not presents...it is the utmost attainment of spritual.
AND, I believe, on the "human" plane, we do by default, have to deal with the earthly...the bills, the conflicts of interest, the schedules, work all that stuff...but connecting with another in "love"...it's more of a spiritual connection.
NOW - that quote from Eat Pray Love re: Soulmates...
It makes complete sense when you look at it from that perspective...the meeting of these fellas was not "chance"...on a level, it may have been fate - to awaken us to that which we need to do to move forward...we are being shaken to another level...
They may be in psychology terms "disordered" OR they may be souls at another level of development, but the souls were brought together in order to complete some type of work. Dark souls allegedly can find the light, but they have to have their "awakening" and it doesn't mean that we were meant to be with them for an eternity - but because the souls were connected in the manner that they were, it is difficult to "cut the chord" so to speak...because of the amount of energy that was involved.
And I don't know where I stand on the psychic chord cutting rituals, whatever works is what works...but the MIND is the organ that I believe is the tool to implement to read and search for the answers, you will find yourself being led...people will say things to you, thoughts will come, dreams will reveal things...but you have to be at a place of being open and in tune with your intuition...
It's just the opposite - it's not that you were not evolved...you are actually more evolved...because you can see, and analyze and question...and search...
For me, the conclusion was: It disintegrated because it was time to meet the next spritual master whatever form that takes...be it spirituality, connections with others, or the next "soul" encounter - who may or may not be my life partner...
BUT, to cleave to that which is no longer propelling that energy in the right direction will leave you stagnant.
I for one, and many here have discussed the actual drain of energy we felt, we could feel the darkness of the energy but could not articulate what it was...anxiety we felt anxiety...that was our spirit screaming negative energy...but we couldn't see it.
AND so in love, we detach, because our spirit and their spirit have different journeys...neither is more or less superior...but it is time to continue on the journey...
And no, I'm not smoking pot over here...LOL - it's just what has come to me in the past 48 hours and I don't know how I was led, but I feel like I'm making all kinds of connections.
Jen 79 was talking about this some and I wasn't getting her at first, then I started reading on the net and on a fluke...I just started landing on some places and for the past 48 hours, it's more or less what I've been focusing on and for me, things are becomming clearer and easier to accept as in some way...it's Divine intervention?...the key is, what decisons do we make about such intervention? We can fight or surrender...
Thanks again for your thoughtful and detailed post.
The purity of love and forgiveness, seeing beyond the trivial. Much of what you said follows my train of thoughts of the way I've tried to live my life.
What I've heard about psychic chord cutting makes perfect sense to me. I saw a ghost once (but that is another thread topic - lol!) I read Eat Love Prey a few years ago and much about it resonated with me.
The soul connection I felt with N was one that my instincts told me was exactly where I needed to be. Even when it hurt to be involved I felt compelled. That may have just been the trap of manipulation, but this has been the part that has confused me the most when I try to process my experience.
I know some soul mates supposedly only come into our lives briefly to teach us something and we must lovingly let them go in order to progress spiritually.
I didn't want to believe after feeling such a complete connection with exN that I would have to do that. Before I met him I didn't miss having it or feel the need to look for it, but I did get attached to it once I had it (or thought I had it).
It just didn't seem at the time I was attached for unhealthy reasons. I knew I wanted to spend the rest of my life with him because of what we did together and how compatible our lives seemed to be, not only because of the love I felt and wanted to continue enjoying and expressing with him.
I can't imagine ever feeling that certain again.
I surrendered often to what felt like a higher power during the relationship believing in the best. Loving more than not, forgiving more that holding onto anger. I don't think I was acting selfishly or manipulative in any way.
Then he got all narc on me and used my own beliefs to sow in me guilt for caring too much, for wanting too much of what I thought I was finally receiving in my life.
I'll check out the link you posted below.
Thanks again.
Journey on...
I read today...which was interesting...and fits in with what i discussed above...
Light equals love
Dark equal fear
BUT they both carry equal power; however,
Dark can become light *if they choose *soulwise?
BUT light can never become dark...
BUT it's not necessarily OUR job to turn the darkness into light...that's the job of the universe?...Karma?...whatever forces are at work...
I read the article and what is says is exactly what he says he's doing.
It screws me up reading that stuff now when it never used to.
Discarding me the way he did by devaluing and using abusive tactics contradicts everything he claims to believe in or that he claims motivates his actions as he goes from one relationship to another with seemingly no care of how much emotional or mental destruction he leaves in his wake.
He talks the talk and says he's only walking the walk when he does this. I tried to love him unconditionally, but he used that to make sure I had no expectations from our relationship and to justify not having to meet any of my emotional needs since all of those would then fall into the definition of 'conditions' for my happiness.
It is a mind warp because yes, when he withheld affection it hurt. Him giving it to me was not a condition that he had to meet for me to continue loving him, but it became the weakness he could use to accuse me of not loving unconditionally if I was affected by it negatively in any way.
It is like Briseis said above, their motivation isn't really coming from a loving place so the act he puts on is a real handy way to extract what he needs from people without any responsibility to reciprocate.
In my original post I mention the quotes from 'The Power of Now' - those two paragraphs were the only things that validated to me that he was not really as enlightened as he thinks he is or wants people to believe he is before recognizing he might be a narc and how the emotional abuse has affected my confidence and reasoning.
BUT it is the excuse he uses to run away when having to face any challenge that might require a more human response.
I can't read articles like that anymore without feeling triggered and thinking I failed somehow because I wanted him to stay in my life as the partner, lover and friend I thought he was.
Journey on...
I'm sorry if this triggered you...and if I may share...I was reading this thread and saying to myself...Hot damn...all these complaints about the Narcs...I'm becomming them!..WTF..I'm looking for answers and my answers are wrong? DAMMIT!
Like I said, I'm a rookie - I re-read the article.
None of us have the answers...that's for certain...
BUT I believe there is a distinction. We have spritual needs/journeys/explorations in life...
IF we believe LOVE is the root of LIFE, GOD, LOVE, EXISTENCE...LOVE is not rooted in selfishness...
I think the root is learning how to LOVE enough to let go.
I am not sure because there are conflicting messages...There's societal standards, based upon ages and ages of "religion", there's religion, there's Cosmo magazine for crying out loud!...What is the answer? To everyone it is different...
NOW - our challenge is LETTING GO...we've been harmed, we've been with disordered people, or "Soul" challenged...LOL
We need to bring the FOCUS back to SELF...nevermind him and his exploitation...the key is understanding for ourselves WHAT OUR TRUTH IS...
I know what you mean by feeling triggered, as there were a lot of NA slogans, and I'd hear them from time to time here...those slogans are not SOLELY NA, but those connections...Christ! they'd strike a nerve, so I know where you are on that...not only did mine tout belief in a higher vegetable...yes, I substituted vegetable for the word power...but the slogans...left and right, and I thought he was sooooo wise and evolved...humph!
Lets remove spiritual now...the narc you were with EXPLOITED the pricipals and claimed sprituality...manipulated the principals...it was just yet another exercise in morphing...its what they do with everything...
The principals, thoughts and ideas are not flawed...it's what MAN chooses to do with the thoughts and ideas...you reading, researching and searching for truth is what will liberate you. What is messing you up are the tapes he played where he "touted" SHIT and believed NONE OF IT HIMSELF.
You are evolved and superior as you will choose to live what YOUR truth is - whatever it is...
And one thing I did, as I was reading and happened upon a trigger, was analyse and see how his actions did not match up with the doo doo he was spewing and taking inventory of how my truth and "higher" evolution trumps his sorry soul...
Mentally argued his lies....to manifest power OVER HIM and the lies...
Ultimately, I do believe we can meet "the one" but the process is trial and error - and all of us here are realizing we were in error mode...hence the need to find some way to let go so that we can move on by whatever means, methods or principals are necessary...
We're stuck on the letting go part...
About the triggers I mean. I don't think your answers are wrong at all. Hell, just saying we are learning how to "let it go" is a trigger because he always said that too.
All I know for sure is that I had a good sense of these ideals within myself and was conscious of trying to live with integrity before he came into my life. Then he used these ideals to control me emotionally but it was gradually implemented and expressed in such a way that I trusted his motivations were honorable and didn't see it for the manipulation it was.
He didn't do this until I was hooked and believed we felt the same way because of how it was the first four months. I wasn't planning our wedding but I did feel certain I'd never feel a need to be with any lover after him because I was that happy and thought he was too.
Then when the mask started dropping, I was accused of being 'needy', looking for something outside of myself to make me happy, had too many expectations about the relationship etc. BUT I didn't feel like I was doing that at all.
All I wanted was for things to continue moving forward in the mutual affectionate way it had been before he starting pulling away and his need to control everything took over.
That was when I found out he wouldn't reassure me about anything and when I got concerned I was told to just relax, have more faith and not worry about what might or might not happen. That enjoying the moment without expectations about tomorrow should be enough to make me happy if I was truly walking the path toward enlightenment.
Well, if I hadn't received all the mixed messages when his hot/cold behavior started sowing seeds of doubt, I would have probably been able to do that, but instead I began to feel anxious that there would be one nasty broken heart on the horizon and I knew it wouldn't be his. I think he wanted me to feel that way because it gave him more power and control to steer our relationship the way that served HIM best.
I tried to back off from having unhealthy expectations and tried to love unconditionally because our relationship and friendship had become important to me. I was emotionally attached to it, but not because I needed to be codependent or felt I couldn't live without him, I just didn't want to because there was so much worth in it to me.
I know we can't rely on someone else to always be there for us and I know bad things happen that can take loved ones away, so I tried to live in the moment as best I could and accept everything for what it was. But he took advantage of my willingness to do that to use me unknowingly for nothing more that personal gain that our association offered him and ego narc supply because I loved him with all my heart.
There was an underlying threat that he had the ability to walk away from me without a care any time he decided to that created all my anxiety. I knew I needed to be less attached but there was a lot of trauma bonding from emotional abuse as it progressed so my attachment did become unhealthy. Then he used this as an excuse to pull away and eventually D&D me because no matter how hard I tried, it was never authentic enough because I was by then living with a fear of abandonment and unhealthy attachment to him.
So reading these articles now about unconditional love, the importance of non-attachment, about giving each other freedom to be true to ourselves, choosing the path that is right for us... blah blah blah all trigger the CD because I TRIED TO DO THAT with my whole being, believing in something that apparently didn't even exist for him at all on a deeper level. When he broke up with me that is what he said, that we are all on our own spiritual path and he had to be true to his which meant moving on from the dysfunction our relationship had turned into. Then I was discarded and he's barely looked back.
That is why i am triggered. I am trying to separate how his actions do not support the ideals he professes to live by and I know I will see this more clearly one day for the manipulation that it really is.
It is just another step in my recovery which is maybe the last big thing for me to process because of the damage to my soul that it alone caused.
Journey on...
The ex-Psych professor claimed that his enlightenment was the reason why he was so detached about emotions. He thought my grief over my deceased grandfather was being "preoccupied with trivialities" (a quote from "War and Peace") He'd say he was aloof from life. He'd say his favorite scene in "War and Peace" is when the dying Prince Andrei Bolkonsky is callous&cruel towards his son, former fiancee and sister, because the enlightened Andrei thinks, as he's dying, that "feelings are unnecessary." When I read that the ex-P had given a lecture on HAPPINESS, I was chuckling... yeah, he's as much an expert on happiness as Lindsay Lohan is on sobriety, or Tiger Woods on marital fidelity.
The ex-P would claim he was "spiritual, not religious." He'd rail against religion... even Buddhism. He'd mock my religious faith. He expected me to give up my faith for him.. but he offered NOTHING as an alternative. He'd call himself a saint (really)
The ex-P once claimed he was an expert on Augustine's "Confessions." He saw himself as a philosopher on the subject of religion. His article on Augustine's "Confessions" was probably in the pipeline when I was a junior (it was published a year after the D&D)
My senior essay was about Augustine's "Confessions." Some of my former professors know I write about religion.
The ex-P NEVER wrote about Augustine again. He now considers himself an expert on literature instead of religion. LOL
Did I taint something for him? Did the house win this time? Oh yes, the house always wins.
Lol Susan
Journey on...
What karma can do for you
Hiya Journey,
Ava
Ava
Wow Ava - thank you!!!
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Lecturing others
Spiritual Talk
AgnusMurphy
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That's a great question...
Thanks Michele
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Argh, disgusting :( There
Thanks Briseis
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Journey
You said it all here
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Oh...and one more thing...
Unconditional Love
Okay, this is what I'm talking about
Journey on...
Journey
No worries Michele
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Journey
Michele
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He claimed to be enlightened...