Ok please answer! These are my last hooks, I want to know what happened.

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#1 Oct 4 - 7AM
jen79
jen79's picture

Ok please answer! These are my last hooks, I want to know what happened.

Ok, I know he is a narc, I do know I am not his only victim, still there are some things, I think, these are the things that still keep me hooked, and I need answers!

First. When I met him the second time his exGF had a miscarriage. I will never forget how much this has influenced him, he wanted me to leave earlier so he could take care of her. He called her every day and he cried on the phone. He even couldnt sleep well, he was really tortured.

If he doesnt has empathy, and he doesnt love anyone, why did this seems to affect him so much. What if he really loved her, and I was just the whore to distract himself?
(ok now they broke up with each other, it didnt work out - again but still this keeps me thinking).

Second, he told me about his first girlfriend again and again, how much he loved her, that she was the one and that it was a big mistake to leave her, that she is the best in sex that she satisfy him like no other, that he would give his life for her (!!!!!!) and that he wants to take care for her when she is old.

Third. He has friends and exgirlfriends, who still love him and still are his friends, how is that possible.

Why did he never consider me as a friend and why does he consider other as friends?

Ok there is this tiny little voice in me telling me, what if it is about me? I am 31 now, never had a relationship in which I was really loved, not once. What if it is me?

Please give me some answers onto this, to help me finally to let go of all of this!

Oct 8 - 1PM
TNR1
TNR1's picture

It's not you...

I know this is going to be extremely hard to accept because Ns spend a LOT of time exploiting our desire to make the person we care for happy. It is normal when something isn't working out in a relationship to see what we could have done to change it (If only I had done this, not said that etc.). In a normal relationship, both people go through this and work towards improving the relationship or cutting their losses...but in a relationship with an N, you will never hear them take any accountability, except where it will serve their best interest. So your exN may talk a great talk about how he misses his exgirlfriend, but I bet when he was with her, he treated her no better than he did you.
Oct 8 - 1PM
TNR1
TNR1's picture

How Ns do it....

Good blog to read...I would suggest reading other pages as well: http://narcissism-support.blogspot.com/2009/01/how-do-they-do-it.html
Oct 7 - 11AM
fooled no longer
fooled no longer's picture

what the hell is " hate sex" thats a new one for me.

so "hate sex" is what he called it.?so he physically dumped on you. wow and he tells you this. This is a bit like raping someone and thinking its ok because you tell them, im raping you. you right this guy is a phsyco he is a NarcP for sure why are you wasting your breath. why do you give a fig about him. if he couldnt give you any clarity about you and him then he cant give it to you now either. please docome on the messageboard to talk about how to work through your anger and to start a new life, but please dont try to understand what goes on in a dysfuntional head of a Narc, thats a waste of time. He seems to be the apex of suckification. go forward, happy he is in the past.
Oct 8 - 12PM (Reply to #55)
Used
Used's picture

hatesex

the hate sex , is any sex...thats why and when they degrade women... what ever women...the humiliation, the debase behavior and talk its all hate sex.... there is no love or tenderness in there having sex whatsoever... except in the beginning to get you in.... if they can ask women they are suppose to love for threesomes...group sex...or ask them about there previous lovers and get off on it... they hate sex, even the som,s hate sex and think its dirty so thats what they take out on the women....they also hate the women they are doing it too for letting them do it to them.....they are sick sick bastards...
Oct 7 - 2PM (Reply to #50)
jen79
jen79's picture

fooled no longer hate sex

was new to me too. I think he means, you hate someone and you fuck them in a comdemning way....whatever. It was hurtfull enough, that he degraded our sex this way, then he didnt want to sleep with me cause I am a good girl, and after he dumped me he continued talking about sex and perversion and cybersex...its so sick. I dont care anymore. It is all out of me now. He is not a part of my life anymore.
Oct 8 - 11AM (Reply to #51)
better off
better off's picture

Sick-O

Wow, I generally don't fuck people I hate. What a total sicko. But such a great thing that you posted this...THIS IS HOW THEY THINK, PEOPLE. That sex is some kind of tool for one thing or another. Only a very twisted person could CONCEIVE of sex as a way to hate a person, or be condemning. Like you said, FLN, that's basically RAPE.
Oct 8 - 11AM (Reply to #52)
jen79
jen79's picture

That explains why I felt like a victim of rape

afterwards...I felt like I was sexual misused..no one really got that, expecially the man I dated after that, I wanted to wait with sex as long as possible, he couldnt understand, I just said a victim of rape doesnt begin to sleep just one year after that, do they? I felt so trraumatisized, that I started crying everytime I had sex, with him (the new guy), or with myself. I still cry today...but I am not dating this man anymore, cause he didnt get it. And its better to heal alone anyway.
Oct 8 - 11AM (Reply to #53)
better off
better off's picture

Oh sweetie...

Oh sweetie... ((((jen)))) I'm so sorry he did that to you. Of course you feel traumatized by that, and not getting any understanding would make it so much worse. We understand. HUGS.
Oct 8 - 1PM (Reply to #54)
jen79
jen79's picture

thank you

I hope one day I'll be ready again to have sex without any mental breakdown afterwards....the next guy will have to proof himslef to me for months before he even gets a kiss from me...I hope they are guys out there, who are willing to wait!
Oct 7 - 9AM
katmass
katmass's picture

Explaining his connection to the former girlfriends

First the one who had a miscarriage: it was a part of him that was lost and THAT is all he cares about. The other one (the first GF) he puts on a pedestal and idealizes. Narcs are incapable of loving or caring about anyone. And the fact that he brings his past relationships up at all is reason for you to find a nice guy who cares about YOU. You. You. They're out there. Join a gym.
Oct 7 - 6AM
jen79
jen79's picture

The weird thing is maybe he is just afraid of me

I remember in Van, we had horrible days, I didnt sleep with him in the bed but on the coach. At the end I said, thank you for being such a jerk, I guess I am now really over you. And I was, I felt nothing for him anymore. But guess what, the next day, I was happy to leave, I was cool and easy, I was done with him and I even start being a bit funny again. For me it was over. He suddenly started again to charm the hell out of me. And talking about me being his girlfriend, but he "just" has to take care now for his "friend", and that we both just should rearrange our life and then we can be together, he will tell her, and I wll tell my bf I had this time - his words. Well I told him, he didnt, Now I think, maybe he was just afraid of being abandoned by me, before he could do it, maybe I was just too cool and easy, since his mask slipped off, so he reeled me back in with some BS lies... Maybe thats it...I fucking hate him. Today I have my suffi exorocism. I am so ready to do it!
Oct 7 - 6AM (Reply to #47)
jen79
jen79's picture

hate sex

Ah yes, and even later he told me that the sex we had in VAN, was just "hate sex" for him, "angry sex"... I think the guy is a creepy psycho. Maybe he didnt change, maybe he was creepy from the beginning on, and I couldnt see it with my pink tinted glasses, This damn hormones make blind fools out of us.. I am so done with him.
Oct 7 - 3AM
fooled no longer
fooled no longer's picture

so he was upset , really you

so he was upset , really you think? how do you know he wasnt angry at not being able to trap this girl in pregnancy, and she had a miscarriage. he probably saw a T V programe on how upset a man should seem when his girlfriend has a miscarriage. So it worked ! he got you to pity him and belive hes empathetic or should I say: Pathetic rather ( stop it Fooled no longer, smack on the hand). How do you know this situation wasnt a fabrication or elaboration of the actual truth which was probably very different? He sounds like a big time arsewipe. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, Its a DUCK.
Oct 7 - 4AM (Reply to #44)
jen79
jen79's picture

who knows

It might have been all a big lie. It was so traumatic for me, after 13 hours fly, I was in Vancouver for 4 hours, I had a nap, I woke up, he wasnt there, I called him, he came one hour later, he told me big drama, she had a miscarriage and I have to leave ealier...I was all like a horror movie for me, me stil in jet lag, it was all so unreal. Who knows, if this wasnt a lie.
Oct 8 - 11AM (Reply to #45)
better off
better off's picture

OMG

Now that you put this story into its full context.. I'd have to say it most probably WAS a lie. Which of course would explain how he could have so much "empathy" anyway, if nothing of the kind even happened.
Oct 5 - 1AM
NancyM
NancyM's picture

Never loved you as much

I actually laugh when I remember the XN telling me that "he would never love me as much as he had loved his first wife". I calmly asked him how he could say such a thing (it came out of nowhere) and I got the "I am just being honest , don't you want me to be honest?" I told him that while he may be honest, it was not good enough for me to be in such a relationship, and I was not playing second fiddle to any ghosts of girlfriends past. So he told me that I would just have to work out if I really wanted to be with him. Instead of getting upset I walked inside and packed a bag. It was his turn to panic, and he would not let me leave. Suddenly he had not meant it like I heard it blah blah blah. I guess he did not get the desired reaction from me (me getting upset and grovelling to find out what I need to do to get him to love me like that) so he had to slam it in reverse, because I pretty much told him to bash it. LMAO jen79, I think michele115 has answered this better than i can, but while you are putting ANY credence in his WORDS then you will always be spun backwards.

Nevergoback

Oct 6 - 7PM (Reply to #31)
moonshine
moonshine's picture

Nancy M

You really did that? I can not believe I sat there asking how I can have his love as he claims he never loved me. The way you acted would have never even occurred to my mind. He said the same thing as he would do anything for these OW from past and how he pursued these other girls. I was scik of hearing all these. It made me very self conscious. He has such a never to play that way to see if you would be willing to work out to really be with him. I really really wish that i would have acted the way you acted. It was so much fun to see the game not go as he planned. When this happened to me..i was in shock. I could not understand how this person could spend so much time with me and yet talk like this. i was in shock for 6 months and then i got out of his house.
Oct 6 - 8PM (Reply to #32)
NancyM
NancyM's picture

moonshine

At this point of the relationship I only had a slight inkling of narcissism and did not know how much the same these things are. But what I was working on at that time was myself and how I was reacting to him. So what I did was learn not to go "emotional" when he hurled something like this out of left field. It was only because I had started to recognize that he did these things just to throw me off balance. Still took me another year to start making the break from him because I lived in the delusion that somehow I was going to get through to him. But it is interesting to watch their plan backfire on them, but in the end they just change the rules and find another way to get to you. It took me a while to realize that EVERYTHING he said or did had a purpose of control behind it.

Nevergoback

Oct 6 - 8PM (Reply to #33)
moonshine
moonshine's picture

yes Nancy M

Yes...however you play ...they use the reaction to play for their own good. its very confusing and i dont understand how a human mind will not get drained my planning such elaborate mapping of how to use some one....may be it comes easy for them. i feel happy that you did that to him....he cant win ALL THE TIME. I feel satisfied that your N got to have the taste of the same game. Unfortunately, i was never able to do it nor do i have the strength to play his game. I am in utter shock that he never loved me...i hope i get over it.
Oct 7 - 6AM (Reply to #42)
jen79
jen79's picture

damned if you do, damned if you dont

That is so true. I remember, there was nothing I could have done to make it different. You are nice - you get abused. YOu are openhearted - you get abused ("you make too much pressure") You are easy and cool - you get abused ("dont be like that, dont play games") You dont make any pressure and you are just happy happy - you get abused (for being so easy - you get labeled as a whore) You are not easy and get standards - you get abused (with silent treatment). There is nothing, noting I could have done so far...I was the whore, the madonnea, the whore again, the friend...the hard to get, the strong woman with boundaries - at the end you get abused. So what. I think they decide inside of them what you are for them, and there is nothing you can do about it. Nothing.
Oct 6 - 9PM (Reply to #39)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Shocked that he didn't care

It must be heartbreaking to be married/dating/physically involved with an N/P. There is such an emotional/physical investment. And it's all... one-sided. It's heartbreaking to realize the person you LOVED, or the person you THOUGHT you loved... was an illusion. My mother was raised by Narcs, it must've been an answer to her prayers I didn't marry the ex-P. She has to deal with her own Narc mother... and my hands aren't metaphorically tied by a Narc spouse. As a student, I was and still am in shock that my teacher never cared about me. On a flight back from Boston, I saw the "Karate Kid" remake with Jackie Chan. Jackie Chan teaches Jaden Smith respect. He's a RESPECTFUL mentor. He always teaches his student respect. Jackie Chan is the contrast to the evil kung fu teacher who barks "No mercy!" to his bullying students. Jaden Smith's character is built up by his mentor, not torn down and emotionally abused by him. "I feel satisfied that your N got to have the taste of the same game"-I ended up playing the game... several years after the D&D. He got nice words from me... then 6 months later, on a Wittgenstein postcard (yes there are postcards of the famous philosopher),a rebuke of his behavior, lest he think he'd be able to worm back into my good graces. I've heard of Ns/Ps trying to get "theirs" back. Well, after what I sent last year comparing him to my baby nephew... well that isn't even very flattering for us normals? Oh, and flaunting my happiness probably didn't help either. He got some attention... but it isn't the supply he wanted... so he didn't come back for more. If I were a hostess here in the Wine Country, I'd pour him a glass of red wine vinegar instead of red wine. See how that tastes! Good on that word salad.
Oct 6 - 9PM (Reply to #40)
moonshine
moonshine's picture

susan...

i can understand how you must have felt. You saw him with love and respect . He very well had the position and relationship which deserved it. But it never happened..not only it didnt happen...it reaction and treatment was reversed. no wonder its hard to let go. I still have to google your Profs article on philosophy...to see how brilliant he really is..hahaha. I like philosophy and I read them most. I ma happy you had the strength to play the game back....it must have made some statement to him.
Oct 6 - 9PM (Reply to #41)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Like a chick in a casino, I'm marvelous can't read my poker face

The only article by the ex-P in its entirety for free on these here interwebs is "Wittgenstein, Tolstoy and the Meaning of Life" (I get my chuckles inserting "Monty Python") You might want to down some Starbucks AND Dunkin' Donuts coffee to get through it. The only way I could "let go" was with humor. Believe me, I've been tempted to send the ex-P a teething toy... his father AND my brother in-law have the SAME real name. And my baby nephew is turning a year this month. And my sister, brother in-law and nephew live in Massachusetts, so I could chalk it up to an honest mistake! The alligator teething toy is cheap... not to mention predatory. It's sad when I read here of people whose Ns/Ps come back after 15-20 years. I guess my ex-Psych professor would be get a warmer welcome in North Korea than with me. I have MORE respect for my former Narc boss. I wouldn't taunt him by comparing him to my baby nephew. It would be mean. I wouldn't flaunt my happiness in his face to hurt him. It would be mean. But with the ex-P, I have DONE both of those. For real. And I was laughing gleefully the whole time. But it must've freaked him out, since he NEVER saw my real handwriting/cursive in 4 years. And plus, he's REALLY paranoid. No wonder when my college had its Monte Carlo casino night, the ex-P never made an appearance. Not only was he a bluffer, but really bad at it.
Oct 6 - 8PM (Reply to #34)
NancyM
NancyM's picture

The shock of it

I guess that is the really shocking part that we have to come to realize. They are incapable of loving anyone, but there is some consolation it that it was never us that were unlovable. To be honest, I became a bit like him in the end to allow myself to get away from him, but I still needed to deal with my emotional fallout later. Like Brieses said in another post, it is time to grow up and put away fantasies of fairy tale happy ever afters when it comes to a Narc. I think most Ns get a taste of their own games quite often, by people that will not accept their behavior in everyday life. These are the people that a Narc will HATE and avoid like the plague. These are also the people that a Narc is most jealous of. These are also the people that are too hard to con, the people that are emotionally well adjusted and have usually come through some pretty huge life trauma to get to this place and these are the people we are ALL going to be when we reach the other side, and moonshine, I have no doubt you will be with us. {{HUGS}}

Nevergoback

Oct 7 - 2PM (Reply to #37)
ShaynasMommy
ShaynasMommy's picture

huh

youre right... no wonder he hates me. And I haven't even spoken to nor seen him in over 8 years. pfft. Because he knows if he contacted me I would only mock him and tell him to fuck off. You know, abuse him right back.Iv'e got a secure life with a husband and family and plenty of love in it...without him. Must tear him up.
Oct 7 - 11PM (Reply to #38)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Mocking him...

Last year, my nephew was born. His birthday is exactly a month after the ex-P's. So, I took advantage of the opportunity last year to wave my happiness in the ex-P's face... then compare him to my nephew, in an unflattering way. It would offend a normal person, because it was insulting... put yourself in a Narc's shoes, and your fragile ego might be as safe as a collection of antique glass among rambunctious preschoolers. Yeah, referring to a former teacher's parents as "Mommy and Daddy" is condescending. Yeah, flaunting my happiness was probably not nice. Oh, and comparing him to a baby whose life is centered on being bathed, breastfed, and burped... not nice at all. I give as good as I got. He probably lives in fear of his mailbox now. Besides, he NEVER saw my real handwriting/cursive when I was his student... so he's in paranoia land. If he wants a one-way ride to the looney bin, I will gladly pay the ticket price, so he can go first class! He DOES get the special treatment he feels so entitled to.
Oct 6 - 9PM (Reply to #35)
moonshine
moonshine's picture

Nancy M

True. I write to over write my brian to think that he cant love me or anyone. I think the shock prevents us from understanding it. It comes from a person who we trusted and loved from the bottom of our heart. In the case of child molestation...the abuse comes from some one who the child knows and trusts . Its a confused state of shock...not knowing what is really happening. I was like a puppy so happily in love with him only to me shocked an left to be daed. i am trying to recover. Did you finish writing your story though?
Oct 7 - 3AM (Reply to #36)
fooled no longer
fooled no longer's picture

so he was upset , really you

so he was upset , really you think? how do you know he wasnt angry at not being able to trap this girl in pregnancy, and she had a miscarriage. he probably saw a T V programe on how upset a man should seem when his girlfriend has a miscarriage. So it worked ! he got you to pity him and belive hes empathetic or should I say: Pathetic rather ( stop it Fooled no longer, smack on the hand). How do you know this situation wasnt a fabrication or elaboration of the actual truth which was probably very different? He sounds like a big time arsewipe. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, Its a DUCK.
Oct 4 - 8AM
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Jen...

I'll try to answer, but I also have some questions: Ok, I know he is a narc, I do know I am not his only victim, still there are some things, I think, these are the things that still keep me hooked, and I need answers! IF YOU KNOW HE IS A NARC AND YOU ARE NOT THE ONLY VICTIM WHAT ELSE IS THERE TO BE HOOKED BY? ARE YOU ABLE TO PROCESS WHAT A NARC IS - AND I'M NOT BEING FUNNY. DO YOU REALLY UNDERSTAND THE DAMAGE THESE GUYS DO? First. When I met him the second time his exGF had a miscarriage. I will never forget how much this has influenced him, he wanted me to leave earlier so he could take care of her. He called her every day and he cried on the phone. He even couldnt sleep well, he was really tortured. REALLY TORTURED OR THE ACT MADE HIM APPEAR LIKE A GENUINE CONCERNED EMPATHETIC SOUL?...IT'S ALL ABOUT IMAGE. If he doesnt has empathy, and he doesnt love anyone, why did this seems to affect him so much. What if he really loved her, and I was just the whore to distract himself? (ok now they broke up with each other, it didnt work out - again but still this keeps me thinking). SEE ABOVE Second, he told me about his first girlfriend again and again, how much he loved her, that she was the one and that it was a big mistake to leave her, that she is the best in sex that she satisfy him like no other, that he would give his life for her (!!!!!!) and that he wants to take care for her when she is old. LET ME TRANSLATE HIS ACTIONS FOR YOU: JUMP HIGHER, I LIKE IT WHEN YOU DOUSE YOURSELF IN LIGHTER FLUID BEFORE YOU JUMP THROUGH THE FLAMING HOOPS...I WON'T STAND TOO CLOSE TO YOU WHILE I'M SMOKING THE CIGARETTE... Third. He has friends and exgirlfriends, who still love him and still are his friends, how is that possible. HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS TO BE TRUE...ITS ALL IN THE IMAGE YOU KNOW... Why did he never consider me as a friend and why does he consider other as friends? I'VE HEARD A LITTLE ABOUT THE MADONNA WHORE SYNDROME...THAT COULD BE A POSSIBILITY. MADONNA'S ARE SAFE AND THEY GET STRUNG ALONG BECAUSE THEY ARE A GOOD SOURCE OF SUPPLY...THEY'RE THE MOMMIES BUT THEY DON'T GET THE GREAT SEX...THE GET ALL THE WORK WITHOUT THE BENEFITS. THE WHORES, WELL, THAT KINDA EXPLAINS IT...THEY'RE FOR BEING USED. A NARC CAN'T DEAL WITH THE TWO EXTREMES IN ONE WOMAN...THEY HAVE TO HAVE THEM IN SEPARATE CATEGORIES. BOTH SUFFER EQUALLY THOUGH. Ok there is this tiny little voice in me telling me, what if it is about me? I am 31 now, never had a relationship in which I was really loved, not once. What if it is me? COULD BE SOMETHING GOING ON WITH YOU - AND THAT SOMETHING MIGHT BE WHAT IS ATTRACTING YOU TO THE NARC AS WELL AS WHAT IS ATTRACTING HIM TO YOU...I'D DO SOME SELF INVENTORY - IT'S HARD BUT WORTH IT...YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO PUT YOUR FINGER ON A PATTERN IT'S DIFFERENT FOR EVERYONE BUT MAYBE YOU MIGHT FIND SOMETHING, OR MAYBE YOU ALREADY KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT YOURSELF THAT YOU'VE BEEN AVOIDING ADDRESSING - MY PERSONAL OPINION, THESE RELATIONSHIPS DON'T JUST MATERIALIZE OUT OF THIN AIR...THERE ARE ISSUES ON BOTH SIDES, ALTHOUGH I WOULDN'T HESITATE TO SAY THE NARCS ARE SICK SICK SICK AND SHOULD BE AVOIDED AT ALL COSTS. Please give me some answers onto this, to help me finally to let go of all of this! THAT IS ABOUT AS MATTER OF FACT OR CLEAR AS I CAN MAKE IT. BEING ON THE BOARD, AND I'M SURE RESEARCHING, YOU KNOW WHAT THESE GUYS ARE ABOUT. IT IS VERY VERY HARD TO REALIZE THAT SUCH CREATURES EXIST. THAT IS WHY YOU ARE HAVING A HARD TIME OF IT. THE CONFUSION IS NORMAL - BUT GIVEN THE VAST AMOUNT OF INFORMATION ON THE NET, IN BOOKS - AND MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONAL'S SAYING THEY CAN'T EVEN DEAL WITH A NARC...I THINK IT WISE TO CUT YOUR LOSSES AND WORK ON YOU. NC/NO CONTACT ASAP!...ONCE YOU BEGIN TO DO THAT, YOU BEGIN TO SEE THINGS A LITTLE CLEARER...I PROMISE. YOU WILL ALSO HAVE TO DO A LOT OF WORK ON YOU IN ORDER TO RECOGNIZE THE RED FLAGS AND MOVE ON. I WISH YOU ALL THE BEST. DUMP THE CHUMP...IT'S ALL A GAME AND WHEN HE'S DONE THE GAME BOARD GOES IN THE GARBAGE.
Oct 4 - 8AM (Reply to #28)
jen79
jen79's picture

michelle

thanks for your post! You are right why am i still hooked though I know he is a narc? I think, it is hard for me to grasp the difference between his true nature towards me and the puplic image he presents himself so very well. Since he is a puplic person, I dont just have to let go of the image I created for my fantasy world - but the puplic fantasy image as well, that is still feed by fans and his other hollywood actor/director/producer friends who are all totally in love with him since he is such a generous guy. It makes me wonder if it is me who created this whole scenario. But of course, they dont really know him, and his hollywood friends would never talk about him badly in puplic, they never do this - ever. And yes I do know my part in this, since I am childhood abuse survivor. The scary thing is, I KNOW it is me who attracts this shit, but I dont want to attract it at all, it is scary to think that there is a subconscious program running in me on autopilot who attracts narcs. But these posts here today have helped me already alot to talk me out of these drama cycle. I realize know that this was all part of his game. And since he is an actor, he is extra extra good in this job.