pair bonding and Narcs ....hi Lisa

I love this: 1) Thoughts are thoughts, they don't have meaning 2) Everyone has strange thoughts, they don't mean anything 3) Feelings can't hurt you Oh, and it's not that you care! Don't look at it that way. That's judging it. You're simply trying to make sense of a non-sensical situation. Do not judge yourself for that. It's healthy and normal to do this. To do otherwise, would be unnatural and even more concerning. :) My EXNH joked about being a narcissist from day one, but I never took it as anything serious. I just thought it meant he was overly confident and self-absorbed at times, which anyone could see. I didn’t realize the true implications of narcissism. I still do not think many people do. It wasn't until certain events in my life occured that I finally looked into the true meaning of narcissism and when I did it blew my mind. It explained everything to me. Eight years into our relationship, I confronted him about why he always took part in escapist activities - sleeping, reading, going to the movies alone, working out at the gym twice a day and withholding sex, love and affection from me. He explained that he often had deep thoughts he needed to escape from. I asked him what kind of thoughts he was having. He proceeded to explain by saying, “Sometimes after dropping you off at the train station in the morning on my way to work, I fantasize about what it would be like if I just kept driving.” I asked him, “Drive where?” “I don’t know where. Just drive. I often wonder what would happen if I just kept driving,” he said. I asked again, “Drive where?” Growing frustrated, he responded again, “I don’t know where . . . I just wonder what would happen if I did!” It was clear that he was fantasizing about leaving me and the life we had together. What he had been escaping from all this time was the reality of his life with me in the suburbs. A narcissist is terrified of living a boring, mundane existence. Domestic life is his worst nightmare. He was miserable in our marriage and fantasized about leaving me. As I tried to process what he was telling me, he said, “I have deep thoughts about many things, such as life, war, and religion that you don’t know about.” I responded, “I had no idea you have such disturbing thoughts you need to escape from.” He then said, “Well, if you showed more interest in what I read, perhaps you would recognize this.” That evening I committed to make more of an effort to notice what Andrew read. Andrew was always reading. He read very esoteric books. In the beginning of our relationship, this impressed and fascinated me. I loved hearing about what he read. However, over time and after having enough of my own reading to do when I attended graduate school, I lost some interest in what he read. I never knew this bothered him, but of course it would. He wanted me to be fascinated by his brilliant mind. That night, as we went to bed, I laid my head on his chest and read along to what he was reading. He was reading Christopher Lasch’s book, "The Culture of Narcissism in an Age of Diminishing Expectations." Talk about irony, huh? Lasch’s book, first published in 1978, supported the belief that the Western civilization has become increasingly narcissistic. I read one paragraph and realized that I needed to explore the true meaning of narcissism right away! The next morning, I typed narcissism into an Internet search engine. What I learned changed my life. My mouth was practically on the floor as I read and learned how pathological narcissism manifests itself in a relationship. As I read the description of a narcissist, I was amazed. It described Andrew perfectly. The most helpful website was Sam Vaknin’s website, http://malignantselflove.tripod.com. It provided examples of what a narcissist would say and it seemed as if the examples were literally quoting Andrew. One example that really hit home explained the view narcissists hold on having children. It explained that narcissists often refer to breeding, or having children, as a common pursuit, not to be highly valued. Anything common or easily obtained by many is of no value to a narcissist. I sat in shock, terror, and relief, as I finally understood the man who had confounded and eluded me for years. That same day, we were scheduled for our third appointment with his therapist. Yes, HIS therapist. You see, this was his therapist that he had been going to for years. She suggested I start coming in with him for couple's therapy. As we drove together to our third therapy session, I said nothing about what I had learned that day on the Internet. We sat in session with his therapist and talked about what happened in New York the weekend prior. Long story short, I kissed a friend of a friend in NY. I'm not proud of it and I'm not minimizing it, but nothing more happened and upon my return, I confessed it to Andrew right away. So, this is a week later. It might be helpful to understand that two weeks prior, we sat in our first therapy session together and he told his therapist that he could no longer see me in a sexual way at all. He said, I was too nice. He could only see me as his good, sweet wife who was completely sexless to him. I could tell his therapist was surprised by how unaffected Andrew was by what happened in NY. She wanted to explore this and asked him about it. He had no response. Then she said to him, “Andrew, do you think you’re not bothered by Lisa and this friend of a friend kissing because you're actually turned on by the fact that Lisa was finally a bad girl?” i.e. Madonna-Whore Complex I sat and waited with bated breath as he pondered her question. He finally responded to her in a very matter-of-fact tone and said, “Yes.” When it was finally my turn to talk about how I was feeling, I unleashed what I had learned that day about narcissism. Andrew’s therapist looked at him bewildered and said, “Andrew, I’m surprised this is the first time Lisa is learning about narcissism, since you and I talk about it so frequently in our sessions.” I told her that Andrew had always joked about being narcissistic, but I took it as nothing more than confirmation that he was overly confident. I did not fully understand pathological narcissism until I researched it that day on the Internet. She then suggested that for our next visit, she meet with me alone, since I was trying to digest so much at the time and seemed very overwhelmed. The next week was long and excruciating. Based on what I learned about narcissism, I told Andrew I didn't think he was capable of love and didn’t love me. He tried to lay on the charm and convince me that he loved me. However, this time his act did not work on me. Once I understood the true meaning of narcissism, it was as if a mask had been lifted from his face. Everything he said to me after that was so fake and contrived. Nothing he said seemed real, and he showed no emotion toward me as I contemplated divorce. Believe me, I searched his face and waited patiently, hoping he would give me one reason to stay. One time during that week I saw his eyes fill with tears. I actually had a glimmer of hope, thinking he might have real emotions for me. I quickly asked, “What’s wrong?” He responded, “Do you know who T.S. Eliot is?” I answered, “Yes, he’s a writer.” “Exactly, he wrote the poem ‘The Hollow Men.’ It is a great poem.” I said, “Okay, yes?” He continued, “Well, T.S. Eliot was brilliant and misunderstood, just like me, but his wife didn’t leave him. No, she stayed by his side. She went into an insane asylum, but she never gave up on him. You don’t understand me and never will. No one understands me.” He continued to explain that it was not his fault if others were too ordinary or common to understand his complexity and depth. While I initially thought Andrew was experiencing some type of real emotion over the thought of losing me, what he was experiencing was a narcissistic injury. His emotions had nothing to do with me. They were all about him and his ego. I sat in astonishment as I witnessed the behavior of a textbook narcissist. Days later, it was time for me to see his therapist alone. At the beginning of our session, I asked her, “Andrew has Narcissistic Personality Disorder, doesn’t he?” She looked at me, paused, nodded her head, and said under her breath but loud enough for me to hear, “Most definitely,” and then proceeded to tell me, “I don’t like putting labels on people, but yes, Andrew has full-blown NPD.” From there, he denied it, of course. Tried to prove me wrong. However, it didn't matter what he said. His actions proved his narcissism. One day he would go from wanting to work on it and the next he would say "I'm so glad we're getting a divorce. I never saw the point of having sex with the same person more than once. I mean, been there, done that. What's the point?" In any case, I gave him what he wanted, his freedom. He was bored with me and had been devaluing, discarding, and belittling me for years in hopes I would finally leave him. He found new narcissistic supply right away. His first serious girlfriend after our divorce whom he brought to a mutual friend's graduation party and made out with all night in front of me, is the woman he married a little over a year ago. When I saw him to have him sign the release waiver to publish his poems he told me that he was no longer a narcissist because his new wife is strong, unlike me, and helped him get rid of his narcissism. No joke. Sorry so long. I need to go to bed and stop rambling. xoxo

they do have issues with control,posseviness and jealousy, even if they hadnt told me this i knew, who, when you are out and need to use the bathroom ,stands outside waiting for you, the n stood and cried with rage, after i spent 3 minutes answering a text on my mobile, screaming turn it off now, if you do i will .and b/c i remember the date of someone,s birthday him saying through gritted teeth, you told me you didnt like them so how can you rember that,WTF,