PUNISHING & REDEEMING NARCISSISTS

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#1 Apr 7 - 5PM
Anonymous (not verified)
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PUNISHING & REDEEMING NARCISSISTS

by Kathy Krajco

As I've pointed out before, therapy doesn't modify the behavior of psychopaths and other narcissists. In fact, the evidence indicates that it just makes them worse.

I find that quite understandable. Psychopaths and other narcissists are like people from another planet: they are operating on alien premises, not normal human premises. (See "Narcissists Are from Pluto" in the book.) So, you can't use the same kind of therapy on them as you use on other mentally ill people. It should, and obviously does, backfire. What you see as (normal, human) reasons for them to behave, they see as reasons to misbehave. In fact, therapy actually greatly increases the recidivism rate among the imprisoned population of psychopaths.

This is why I think all patients should be screened for malignant narcissism and/or psychopathy before treating them. They need a different kind of therapy.

Dr. Robert Hare came up with a simple regimen of positive and negative reinforcement. Reward them for being good; punish them for being bad. Relentlessly, as you do with a child too young to reason or moralize with.

I don't know, of course, but it seems to me that this may work. Because I do know that the only rein on a narcissist's behavior is what he or she thinks they can get away with.

If you keep at this therapy long enough, you have prevented the N from doing anything he needs to project on and abuse anybody else for. Yes, malignant narcissism is essentially a vicious cycle of misbehavior. The only conceivable solution is to break that cycle.

If you watch a narcissist like a hawk and whack him every time he steps over the line, he WILL behave. Eventually then, he no longer needs a whipping boy. He no longer sees himself as a person who abuses others. Because he doesn't do that anymore and hasn't for a very long time. That's redemption.

It's like getting off drugs or alcohol. If you quit drinking today, that's nothing. But if you stay clean for a long time, eventually your self-concept changes. You are no longer a drunk. That's redemption.

Now you have a vested interest in staying clean to preserve this improved status in your own regard. And it becomes much easier to do so, because your dismal opinion of yourself was what tempted you to drink, and it is now gone.

Like Hester Prynne in "The Scarlet Letter." One day she realizes that she should hold her head up because she is no longer a woman who commits adultery. Redemption.

What accomplished redemption? Punishment. Swift and sure. It's an object lesson that becomes a deterrent to future misbehavior.

Punishing narcissists is not being mean to them. It may be the only thing that can help. And, as for their victims, it is simple justice, the right thing to do for their sake too.

Oct 22 - 10PM
Barbara (not verified)
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therapy can't help them but....

SEE TOP POST ~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Pathologicals only discard the best, most precious of gems of people... not the worst. They despise the strong, principled, decent & honest. Their discarding of you is then their highest commendation of your worth!" - A.V.
Jul 7 - 2PM
Barbara (not verified)
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Punishing Narcissists

SEE TOP POST. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
Jul 7 - 2PM (Reply to #3)
quietude (not verified)
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punishment

Is this information kind of tongue-in-cheek I take it? I mean, does anyone have the time or patience to actually do this? It is just like having another kid, a very problematic kid!
Jul 7 - 4PM (Reply to #4)
Barbara (not verified)
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quietude - not at all

not tongue-in-cheek at all. What Kathy is saying is do NOT be afraid. GET THAT RESTRAINING ORDER FILE FOR DIVORCE when you are in the process of leaving - do NOT put up with his verbal or emotional abuse for the "sake of peace" ("do NOT speak to me that way.") GO TO COURT and HAVE THAT CUSTODY ORDER ENFORCED FILE CONTEMPT CHARGES WHEN APPLICABLE CALL THE COPS WHEN HE STALKS YOU CHANGE YOUR PHONE NUMBER DO NOT BE AFRAID. I certainly have the patience to do this with the Narc Doctors I've had to deal with ("excuse me, do not speak to me that way...") or exNH ("I will be dropping the kids off at Xam. I required 48 hr. notice for changes or you will be held in contempt.") If you set your boundaries and stand up for yourself consistently - it becomes second nature. The way it should have been in the first place. Don't ASK for respect... REQUIRE it. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
Jul 7 - 6PM (Reply to #5)
quietude (not verified)
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okay

...I see what you're saying. True, standing up for oneself is vital. I know that growing up, my narc mom wouldn't allow us to express ourselves, it was always 'because I said so'. We couldn't argue with MOM. So how do you gain those tools to face the outside world....you make it up as you go! I find I'm much less tolerant of people who carry N traits these days. Kind of like, don't try it buddy, I got your number. It's too bad we have to work so hard to get results from people like this.
Jul 7 - 6PM (Reply to #6)
Barbara (not verified)
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what victims CAN do

http://narc-attack.blogspot.com/2007/04/what-we-can-do.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
Apr 10 - 5PM
Barbara (not verified)
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The Narcissist is a Cannibal

by Anna Valerious We have evidence that the narcissist knows he is mistreating you as we reflect on his deceptions and the many other ways he hides his bad acts. The term used in a criminal court is "consciousness of guilt". A person gives evidence of their awareness of the wrongness of their acts by their attempts to hide them. This concept is concrete enough to be used as evidence in a court of law, so it is concrete enough for us to use as evidence to convict our narcissist. The narcissist seeks targets of opportunity. You are abused by him because he thinks he can get away with it. To deliberately use, abuse, hurt and obliterate someone just because you can is evil. Those who argue that this doesn't mean the narcissist is evil make a good point. They say it isn't about you in the narcissist's thinking. They don't even see you so how can it be calculated evil? While there is some truth to the fact that the narcissist ignores your humanity I can't completely buy into this theory. The narcissist gives it all away when they lie and cheat to get their way. If they truly didn't "see" you then there would be no reason to create a false reality for you in order to obscure truth. They know they have to deal with the fact that you are a separate (from them) human being with a mind of your own, so they have to be aware of what they are doing to you. He has found a way to exonerate himself from the label of evil in order to continue doing what he does. Are you willing to exonerate him too? We become his slave if we do. What the narcissist does to his victims when no one is looking is evil. He knows this on some level which is why he projects his evil acts off of himself onto others in an effort to distance himself from that which blackens his own character. The narcissist works to completely obliterate you as a separate human being. Her goal is to assimilate you. Make you an extension of herself. This is what justifies her using you. You've been transformed into another of her body parts that she gets to use at her will. You have no will of your own she has to consider. You have no needs or desires separate from her own. The way this assimilation is accomplished requires evil acts. To maintain this relation to another human being requires ongoing evil acts. It is a form of cannibalism. In my understanding, cannibalism is always evil. Even if the cannibalism is only psychological. Who you are is defined by your mind. To consume who you are....how is that not cannibalism? Because I believe in the existence of evil I am able to work to avoid doing evil. To avoid doing evil is to avoid being evil. Goodness in people is never an accident, in my opinion. Good character requires decision and effort. The easy path is the evil path. Good character means we practice self-denial when necessary, we consider the feelings and needs of others (sometimes at the expense of our own), we live in the truth (whether good or bad), we conduct ourselves honorably whether or not someone is looking. If we aren't allowed to call evil by its right name then we really are not able to credibly give honor to goodness. To do away with one is to do away with the other. If we can't say that deliberately hurting someone is evil then we dis-empower victims of evil. They have no real name to attach to their experience or their abuser. Pop psychology doesn't believe in the concept of evil so victims of narcissists are left to assume the abuser doesn't really mean to do what they do, or they have to excuse the abuser on the basis of the abuser's own "damage", and they have to minimize their own experience and blame themselves. This makes it very hard to pull away from the abuser because we are left to believe that in some way we are the problem. The abusive narcissist is quick to tell us that is so because he is quick to use pop psychology to exonerate himself. He's not insensible when society hands him a "get of of jail free" card. He grabs it and runs with it. Combine pop psychology with a narcissist and you make him worse. Research is bearing this fact out. Calling evil by its right name allows the abused the opportunity to see valid reasons to get away from the evil that ensnares them. An acknowledgment that evil does exist is directly related to the concept of freedom. As long as we don't call evil by its right name we are entrapped by it. Emotionally, mentally, even physically. We are slaves to someone's will. Call evil by its right name and see the path to freedom open up in front of you. http://narcissists-suck.blogspot.com/2006/09/narcissist-is-cannibal.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~ My site: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Free articles & information on surviving & understanding abusive behavior. Updated daily.