I wonder that exact same thing... how can I be SOOO in love with someone who keeps doing this to me? How can I allow this over and over? I was on here a month and a half ago? or so? wondering if he really is a narc or not. Concluded he was. Then thought I WAS. Then decided we both are just in a really hard spot and care so much about each other. blahblahblah... and then things started to go REALLY well with him... and I dropped off the site... and now here I am.... yet again, in massive pain as he dumped me. Again. When things were going better than any other time since I've known him... how can this happen? He's out on the town as I sit at home devastated...
And I miss him. And I love him... and this KILLLLLS...
You might want to read this article (http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/traits.html), i know its kind of long but it will help you realize (at least it hit me) that this is not the kind of relationship you want and things will never change with him, it is what it is.
I personally wish for a man who wants to protect me, my love, my heart, my body and soul, from pain or even disappointment. This relationship will FEEL GOOD inside and it will show on the outside that you are happy.
I also fell in love with my N... so I know the pain, I cried for him for long hours and days and sometimes it hurts so much I can't even function properly at home and at work. It was unstable and I was confused all the time. Then I see friends who have relationships with men who take care of them, make sure they are ok, love them, and these girl friends of mine are relaxed, happy, and productive, their minds and hearts are at peace. They feel good, they enjoy their relationships and they are best friends with their significant others. All of us deserve that, don't you think?
I know it is hard to get over them, because of the sick emotional bond they have with us. But start thinking about what YOU want long term, what YOU deserve. I bet you know it's not with your Ex N. - Imagine 10-20 more years of life with someone who cheats, lies, manipulates, and constantly makes you feel bad and discards you whenever he feels like it... do you really want that for your life? He does not deserve you. What kind of man dumps a woman who he is supposed to love and respect??? Wipe your tears, he will soon be just a bad dream.
you're awesome. this was a really helpful msg. the thought of him actually wanting to please me is so far from who he is, it makes me wonder how i could mistake that for love! it makes me want to get as far away from him as possible. i need to print this out and tape it on my arm to re-read every time i feel bad and get an impulse to contact him. i cant imagine going through this abuse for 10-20 yrs! the abandonment is whats so hurtful and ur right i shouldnt have to kiss his ass and take his abuse just to avoid it. hes supposed to make me feel secure and confident, in his love and in who i am. he does the exact opposite! disgusting dirtbag he is
I'm sorry to read of this. Are you familiar with the cycle of abuse? That's pretty much what you've described here. Extreme highs...extreme lows. Break ups...guy comes back promising he'll change...says sorry...back together...back to the extreme highs...good sex...blablabla...and then, bam...dumped. That's the abusive cycle. If you truly want free from it, try to figure out what it is about you that keeps drawing back to him, and resolve THAT. That's where the healing begins...You can't fix him. But, you can go NC and stop allowing yourself to be abused. >
Thank you so much for your response... I know I should free myself from it, but I guess the key has been that I haven't truly wanted to free myself from him... I thought I did when I signed on this site in June (I think it was).
I would love to be free from this pain. I have alienated myself from most of my coworkers and friends to be available to HIM. (He and I work together).
I tried to find a therapist. I specifically asked if the woman I found had a background/experience regarding narcs. She said she did. but then when I was there, she actually seemed somewhat horrified by my story - said she could try to help me but that if/when I was ready to deal with leaving him, that she'd have to refer me to a women's abuse center as she wasn't sure how to handle. No, this guy has never been physical. yes, I am pretty he has the capacity to turn physical but not 100%. That combined with her showing shock that I had a 3yro child (I'm 43) - seriously? Don't seemed shocked if you are a fucking therapist. About a 40yro woman having a baby (um, hellooooo, it's 2011...) nor about my narc story ! Sorry. I didn't go back. :(
My head hurt. I want to go cry myself to sleep.
...because somewhere along in your life, you processed that love = pain. When growing up in an emotionally/verbally abusive household myself, I grew to view love as something to struggle for...beg for...yearn for...from others who were supposed to love me without conditions. My own family! I grew to view love as having conditions. Perhaps you did too? Once you make the connection of where you ''learned'' that love has to equal pain, you'll begin to heal, because it will start to click and make sense, that love should NOT feel anything like that.
There is something all too familiar in what this man does. It is not obvious. But there is a pattern. It echoes. And you are trying to make that connection with this man which you could not previously with that other person. It is somebody in your childhood -- or a combination of people & situations.
Turn this around. Forget about love. Think about self-preservation. Think about YOU & what you deserve. Stop trying to be good enough so that he will be nice to you all the time. Start saying to yourself that his Dr. J & Mr. H routine makes him NOT good enough for you. And this happens to be the truth.
hi julia--no, i actually didn't go through therapy with all this, but maybe i should have! :=) i just know that being on narc #3, which was the recent breakup i went through, i knew there was something ABOUT ME, that was not only leading me to narcs, but attracting them. it is liberating to be here. plus, finding this site, and all i've learned about narcissism...i really pray i'll never have to go through this again. that the lessons have truly been cemented!
That was my first thought this morning too about myself, exactly the same, literally the second my eyes opened...even just seeing this post made me feel a little brain relief :)
It's not really him that you're in love with. It's the person he pretended to be that you're in love with. An illusion of your "Mr Right", created by him, to lure you in. They are experts at assessing what another person is looking for in a romantic partner and then they act that part.
They are so good at becoming exactly what you want that you feel he must be right for you and you feel that it is impossible that you could ever meet anyone who is more right for you than he is - that is partly how they keep us dependent on them and make us keep fighting for the relationship to work.
A vital step in our recovery is being able to get to the point where we can fully accept that what we fell in love with was a character that was portrayed to us, not an actual real-life, consistent personality. Most people on this forum tend to say that, once the relationship was over, that character vanished into thin air and was never seen again.
"That character vanished into thin air&was never seen again"- How very apt a description of the ex-Psych prof! While LOTS of Ns/Ps see Facebook/MySpace as their virtual playgrounds, the ex-P barely exists on the internet. He's incredibly paranoid. (That good ol' fear of exposure) A year after the final D&D (that would mean a decade ago)... I found out the ex-P had married his girlfriend after she had borne him twins, a son and a daughter. When I congratulated the ex-P on becoming a husband&a father... I got ZERO response, and the page has since vanished into the aether.
What got the ex-P paranoid was that I found an essay of his online about "War and Peace" (it's still online, you don't even have to pay to read the whole thing-it's a non-prescription sleep aid) His subsequent essays have pay walls... in other words, pay at least $30 to read them. Ironic, I suggested that since HE wanted to be paid for HIS writing... he ought to get published.
The ex-P presented himself as a philosopher to BOTH his current wife of a decade and myself. When I met the future wife, she gushed about him being a philosopher. He's only been consistent on "War and Peace." He's a philosopher with NOTHING to show for it. He got published in '01 and '09... and if that's an attempt to make me jealous, all I can say is EPIC FAIL.
The ex-P was perversely fascinated with mysterious disappearances. He liked talking about a Canadian environmental activist who railed against academia, cut down a golden spruce... then vanished. He was fascinated with Margie Profet, who wrote about what pregnant women eat. Eerily, Profet disappeared in Cambridge, Massachusetts back in '05... her vanishing remains unsolved. The ex-P would rag about Gov. Gary Johnson's wife (Johnson is currently a GOP presidential candidate)... she died a couple of yrs ago from cancer right after she&Johnson divorced.
While Ns/Ps tend to the exhibitionistic, the ex-P was "different." It's like he disappeared.
This is where I get into trouble. I do believe xN was portraying a character in some ways but in others I know factually that we did share some important and very unique or special commonalities (likes, passions, and very similiar backgrounds).
How does one process or explain this? I don't know I guess I am having a hard time with that. Or maybe I am kidding myself and she really was portraying a character mirroring me because she studied me? (This is possible since I had alot of personal info on social networking site)
Since she quickly found NS and I have maintained NC I don't know how she is now portraying herself (?) as you speak of in terms of the character "vanishing into thin air". Thoughts anyone?
After splitting up with my ex I got in contact with his previous girlfriend who was a devout christian and a regular church goer. She told me that they had never slept together during their entire relationship of almost a year as she did not believe in sex before marriage and he had told her that he shared her religious and moral beliefs. She said that they used to go to church together, pray together and have lots of deep and meaningful conversations about religion.
When he was with me he never mentioned religion once, nor did he ever go to church. (I am agnostic). We had a sexual relationship right from the start. In fact, he couldn't get enough of it.
This is my evidence of him having a bespoke "character" to fit whoever he was with at the time.
MIRRORING!! That's exactly what ur narc did Nemisis...they mold themseleves into what they think (and ultimately know b/c they've studied us normal ppl) their victim wants. For one it is a super religious, chaste till marriage guy, the next it may be one who is into ANYTHING sexually. They play whatever role they need until they can get what they REALLY want which is usually depraved. He probably left her b/c she would not give it up and/or she saw his mask. I wish I could talk to my ex's ex gf's....
I think it's possible to have connections with these narcs...at least in the beginning. That's what drew us all together. If they showed their true colors from day one...abusing us, would we have fallen in love? Probably not. Most of us here, fell in love with the beginning stages of being with the narc. Looking back, I don't believe I loved him at all. I just wanted to BE loved BY HIM. In your case, I'd say that you shouldn't feel odd or anything that you both shared things in common, such as passions for life, etc. The problem with narcs, is that most of what they do is intended to get something from their victims. Sometimes, they will mirror their victims...to pretend to have stuff in common. To lure them in. Sometimes, they truly do have things in common, but yet...they view relationships as supply, and a means to an end. They use the information sharing, as a way to manipulate. For example...let's say you had a hard time with public speaking. I could see a narc saying...''omg, me too...wow, we have soooo much in common.'' And then it sort of builds from there. They sympathize with our hurts AT FIRST. As time goes on, they EXPLOIT those hurts. You see? I have fears of love and commitment. At first, my ex N wanted to help me cope and heal from all that. As time went on, and we would argue about something...he'd say...''Dee, this is because you are fearful of getting hurt. This is all in your head. You need to work on this.'' haha See? He'd take the very confidential things I shared with him, and turn them on me during an argument. I'm being kind when I share it like that. It was more like...''dee. you're fucked up way of thinking about things is gonna ruin this relationship...so if i walk out on you...'' Bla bla...you know the drill. Threats. Etc...He took something I shared with him that at first he seemed to want to help me with, and then, caused me great anxiety over it, if I dared to challenge him on anything.
That's what narcs do. They mirror. They pretend. They might even believe they have things in common. But, in the end, their sole intent is to take the very information that you confided and trusted with them, and turn it on you to hurt you. I don't want to say they are fake and phony, but rather that they view everything in terms of what can this do for them. What you're going through is CD. But, as time goes on, you'll get over it.
SO TRUE Deidre40. They somtimes actually believe the face they put on for us. My narc actually wanted to wait to be intimate at first, said he "respected my decision to wait..." LIE! He was a sexual deviant at best. Narc's are mirages. Look great initially and from afar but as soon as u get close (or think u do) they change and vanish!
I just wanted to be loved BY him....holy cow. I never looked at it this way.
We seemed to have a strong connection from the beginning. Maybe he was mirroring me, I don't know. I do remember early on though, there were little things that he did that made me think....is this the kind of guy I want to spend the rest of my life with? He spends all of his money, has no savings what-so-ever. And he makes remarks about hot women all the time. Do I really LOVE him?
The other day when I slipped and met with him to talk, after we talked and I told him that there was never a day that I would have ever thought he would lie. But now I still don't trust him, he said - now don't you feel better that you've seen me? I'm like...WHAT? Don't I feel better since I've seen you? You just told me that there is nothing between you and the other woman, yet did you say - look, I love you and don't want to lose you..... I can't imagine my life without you. Nope, he wonders if I feel better SEEING HIM!!!
At church, he didn't even look at me. I have to convince myself that this man does have an on and off switch like a computer. Esp. now since I feel in my gutt that he is with the OW, maybe I don't love him, just want to be loved by him. You know, one time he even told me that he doesn't want to "do it" with other women, just wants to know that they desire him enough that he could. Yuck! I need to wake up.
Thanks for making me think Deidre40
We're all in the same boat rowing together! :=) I look back...and I know I didn't love him. In all the time I've been posting here since the breakup, not one time did I ever waiver in wishing to go back with him, nor regret ending things with him. I didn't love him. I feel ashamed to admit that here, because I know so many women and men here did love their ex's. But, I just wanted to be loved by an abuser? It's a daily journey. But, we'll get there howcouldI. I think that I've learned so much through this, that for that...I'm grateful.
Oh how I do know the drill! Uggh. Always threatening to walk out and abandon the relationship if I ever dared questioning. Never being able to have one single adult conversation that could take any of my needs or feelings into consideration without the threat of the relationship ending. I know this is not normal. I do still have CD. I think alot of it revolves around these things in common and me trying to wrap my head around whether or not they were really there or not. This "soulmate connection" Sandra Brown talks about can be so powerful and intense. Thanks for helping me see, even if they were real that it was all still manipulative and as you say, just a means to an end.
I know all too well the "I will end it if u don't agree.." threat. It is NOT normal to threaten to end or actually end a relationship over a minor fight. Most PEOPLE who are actually IN LOVE will have a fight/argue and then cool down and try to work it out. Not a narc. Often they want to totally shut down and then disappear. Sometimes forever and sometimes till THEY cool down and think that u r over it so they can start the whole crap over again. My ex narc said to me once, early on, when I disagreed with him/didn't do what he wanted when and how he wanted it that, "You are gonna regret talking to me like u did....b/c I am gonna turn my back to you and never speak to you again..." Really?! Another time he said to me, "I guess u were right...U are not good enough for me...."All this after a minor argument! And he always came back. Took up to three months of NC but he always came back...
It's insanity....but can be so addictive nonetheless....
No!
If you were a narc you would not be reflecting on your behaviour AT ALL.
My guess is that the reason you told him you wanted to end it "so many times" is probably because every time you tried to end it, he would have talked you out of it.
xxx
I'm so sorry you went through the threats, too. :=( It breaks my heart to see such wonderful people here, having been abused like this. Ugh. I remember when I broke up with him. He said in subsequent texts and calls...''dee, you don't have any idea how a relationship works. you don't break up with someone the minute things get bad.'' (the minute? lol yeah) I said...''I'm granting you what you wanted. All your threats to leaving me? I'm just giving you what you wanted.'' lol I remember that sending him into a tirade.
I do feel sympathy for the guy, but deep down, he's nothing but an asshole. A deceptive, conniving, scheming, mean spirited bullying asshole. Wait. Why do I feel sympathy again? lmao! No...I do. Because underneath all of that asshole-ness...is a very empty, sad, hurting man. May God help him, for that is all who can.
Hope u had a good weekend, rose.
Mine also would say - "Why do you always want to end this when we have a disagreement? I have never once said I want it to end."
So, does this sound like something a narc would say?
omg...did we date the same man?? lol Yes, it is something they'd say. Head games...they're masters at it. And they say contradictory things to eff with your head...that's what they do. He drove me to ending it. I had no choice but to end the relationship with my ex N. Thankfully, I cut it off at the 3 month mark, roughly. He was abusive...he was playing head games...I think he was lying, looking back...threatening...my heart was racing all the time, I couldn't eat...I was not present with my kids. That was it. I ended it. And then he acted shocked. lol He's someone else's problem now.
This reminds me of one time when I was completely exasperated by his erratic behaviour and I said to my ex "Why can't you put me first?"
His reply: "I always put you first".
In my mind I was thinking, "No you don't, you never put me first". But I was too afraid to say it to him out loud.
I think the yearning, churning desperate ache I have in relation to my ex maybe isn't love. I think it's a desire for the pain and anguish and abandonment and rejection to stop. And I have it in my head that if he wanted and loved me the pain would stop. The truth is he caused the pain and anguish and he abandoned me.
Hang in there
OMG! You've hit the nail on the head with this Jeli!
They are dependant on others to provide them with NS. We provide them with the drug that takes away their pain (the pain of facing reality). But they have projected this dependancy onto US by making us feel that they are the only one who can take away our pain.
But we have lost sight of the fact that they are the CAUSE of the pain, not the solution.
I know what you mean...
Still Not Sure...
you're awesome. this was a
to: still not sure
... to Deidre40
...because somewhere along in
Familiar
Beautifully put...
juliamarie
That was my first thought
foreverfun
Into Thin Air
The Illusion
Rose
MIRRORING!! That's exactly
wow thats creepy as hell
to rose
SO TRUE Deidre40. They
I just wanted to be loved BY him....good one
How could I
The Drill
I know all too well the "I
But I'm the one
How could I
to rose
Does this sound like something a narc would say?
how could i
How could I & Deidre
I think the yearning,
Jeli - you've hit the nail on the head!