Re-Write History????????

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#1 Sep 24 - 11AM

wisdomneeded

Re-Write History????????

The counselor my daughter is seeing after her Narc encounter told her that the Narc very often re-writes history. So the LIES CONTINUE...

He lies to his victims, he lies to his adoring fans, he lies to his new supplies....and perhaps the reason they can never get better is because of the Biggest Lie of all - HE LIES TO HIMSELF....History is re-written it is EVERYONE'S FAULT BUT HIS OWN.

Any thoughts????

Hugs to all,
WN

#2 Sep 26 - 10PM

wisdomneeded

love that song

love mika....playing it now...thanks for reminding me of this!

#3 Sep 26 - 10PM (Reply to #38)

Susan32

The Music of Mika

I seriously think Mika was Narc'd. His song "Lover Boy" is definitely addressed to a Narc who "broke up for fun" and "is a fool." It sounds like a song from a '60s movie musical, albeit one set in Edwardian England like "Half a Sixpence" and "Mary Poppins." His song "Happy Ending" has an ironic title. It's about how there's "no hope, no glory, no happy ending." It's from a Narc's perspective, lamenting about not being famous. Mika said that it's about being drunk&abandoned.

#4 Sep 26 - 9PM

repressed memory

Delusional of course!

Absolutely they believe they can rewrite history. I was just writing in my journal this exact thing!! They believe they're so powerful, God Almighty, persuasive, etc. that they just have to wait a short time or wave their magic wand, or suggest otherwise and history has been altered. That's why they will suddenly appear and act like nothings happened, no time has elapsed, and everything is cool! I can't tell you how many times this has happened to me. I used to think "Are you out of your f****ing mind? Do you think I'm even going to talk to you after what you did." And they just can't understand. If your lucky, after you've drilled it in their head ten times what they did wrong, they will admit some acknowledgement.

#5 Sep 26 - 9PM (Reply to #36)

wisdomneeded

Repressed memory

I love your point that it is like NO TIME has lapsed. They act as if nothing has happened. That is why I think this is like gas lighting making you feel like you are crazy. As far as drilling it into their head what they did wrong I call this the Jiminy Cricket concept they need our conscience to TELL THEM. They have no conscience of their own they need to be told. If they did not hurt so many people - I would call them PATHETIC. But the pain they cause others makes me call them EVIL!

#6 Sep 26 - 7PM

RoseyRose

I understand you

I just wrote a post talking about this. My NC rewrites history too. You should check out some of my post. Sometimes we don't have food in the house and I will him to go to the store to get some. ( WE live in middle of nowhere place where there aren't bus lines and I don't drive so I have to depend on him to get around ). Am hyperglycemic and he makes me go for days sometimes with out food just liquids. He watches TV plays around online and remains dismissive towards me or says in a few hours again and again. He will wait until its late at night and then go" If you really want me to go I will go but am sick and am tired and its so late. He is watching TV or online ha right.. ( mind you it could have been days of him doing this and me trying to hang in there) If I tell him I really want food ask him to go. HE WILL but there will be a memo sent on out by email text and phone conversation that "I MADE him go and I WAITED until it was LATE AT NIGHT ( what the hell ). He has said in past I waited until it was late at night and he even told me he wasn't feeling well but I bullied him into going and am so horrible ect In the past when he has done this. He has never mentioned teh days that went by of him postponing and the fact I had been asking him all day. I would wait for hours in between asking and he doens't work so he wouldn't be doing anything significant. But if one of his friends calls and says they want to sell him some drugs then getting up and heading out is no problem..

#7 Sep 26 - 10AM

StudentOfLife

Re-writing history....

They seem to think they are Gods.... and if they can wave a wand and say the magick words (aka their lies & whatever version of history the want to represent....), and *POOF!*, Voila! ~ It is magickally so!!!! I have thought about this, and I wonder if they really are able to talk themselves into believing their own lies. Seems to be so....

#8 Sep 26 - 11AM (Reply to #33)

wisdomneeded

They believe their own....

lies. I am convinced that is the ONLY WAY they can live with themselves. They lie soooooooooooooo much it becomes their reality!!!!!!!!

#9 Sep 25 - 8PM

Susan32

Historical revisionism

When I worked in a Narc workplace for 5 years, it happened CONSTANTLY. My former Narc boss loved a drag queen Martha Stewart lookalike named Brini Maxwell. Suddenly he changed his mind and said he never liked her/him. He constantly changed the story of how a coworker of mine was injured. I had an obese Narc coworker who claimed that he had this prestigious cooking background. He bragged about cooking at a combination winery/restaurant... turns out he was dealing drugs out of there and it was horrific mess (it's under new ownership, now a premier destination) A female Narc coworker of mine claimed I called her NUMEROUS times, she cried to my boss that I was constantly calling her... the problem? I had called only ONCE. The ex-Psych prof was WORSE because he mixed lies with the truth. If he had lied all the time, it would've been consistent. I never knew when he was telling the truth or BSing me. He claimed to care about my health because his father is diabetic... okay, his father IS diabetic. He talked about a movie called "The Merry Gentlemen" (this was back in '97) about a hit man who pals around with an abused wife.... okay, it was released in '08 (at the time, I thought he was lying about it). He complained to students about my dating... he OMITTED mention of his girlfriend. He claimed he was writing a book about Augustine/Wittgenstein... it was NEVER published. He went from saying "I'm writing a book" to "I'm thinking of writing a book",claimed I was crazy. With the Narc workplace, I could take their words with a grain of a salt. They tended to go for half-truths. I could be wary and discerning. I didn't emotionally invest in that place. I don't want to go back, tho the female manager hoovered me awhile back. With the ex-P, he mixed lies with the truth, his lies were primarily of omission. I REALLY didn't know where he was coming from. Interestingly, his favorite epic, "War and Peace",is full of Leo Tolstoy's views on warfare&history... and yes, historical revisionism. Tolstoy thought he was rewriting the Russian wars of the 1812 era.

#10 Sep 25 - 9PM (Reply to #27)

wisdomneeded

AHHHHHHHH YES!!!!

Mixing the truth with the lies. That is the ticket. Just enough truth to hook you.... Another famous one is a lie of "omission", you have to ask just the right question with just the right words for the truth to come out. Even then the Narc's version of truth and your version are completely different. I think re-writing history is a form of gas lighting you do walk away feeling like you are crazy after one of these encounters.

#11 Sep 25 - 10PM (Reply to #28)

How could I

You got that right wisdomneeded

Omission - oh yes!! I asked him who he had dinner with. He said nobody. I knew he was with her and told him I had proof that he lied. Now are you ready for this one? He said - I didn't lie! I didn't have dinner with her, she didn't eat!!!!!!! LOLOLOL

#12 Sep 26 - 10AM (Reply to #29)

wisdomneeded

SERIOUSLY????

"she didn't eat", YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING! How could I - talk about omission - if only you had known "the magical words" to say LOL!

#13 Sep 26 - 10AM (Reply to #30)

Used

haha

when i said to exn, you are a hypocrite, you had a coffee with name, yet you told me you hated her, she was a slut and you wouldnt be seen dead with her,and now you have had a coffee with her...HIM, NO I DIDNT SHE HAD TEA..

#14 Sep 26 - 11AM (Reply to #31)

wisdomneeded

Looks like a man

That is what the N said......about (_________)insert name! Oh by the way - had sex with her two days after declaring his love again and wanting to get back together.

#15 Sep 25 - 6PM

ruby01 (not verified)

re write history

I always got a heads up when mine was going to tell a whopper he had cooked up because he would always start off by saying, "okay, so....." and off he would go into some fantastical story.

#16 Sep 25 - 5PM

Hunter

Sounds about right! Hunter

#17 Sep 24 - 10PM

MandyM

Mine told me his wife left

Mine told me his wife left him for another man. At the time he told me this - at the beginning of the relationship - he said the other guy was a doctor. Six months later, in casual conversation, he told me the other guy was a blue-collared factory worker. The conversation ended before I had a chance to question him, and, of course, not long after that, he'd vanished from my life. Now I no longer believe there ever was another guy - I think the now-ex-wife simply ran for the hills. Especially when mutual friends had never even hinted to me about there being another guy but instead told me how much my ex drank and "he shouldn't have been so surprised at the divorce."

#18 Sep 25 - 3PM (Reply to #23)

agnesmurphy17

The Ex-Wife

Mine told me that he fell in love with another woman after almost 25 years with the woman who was his wife. He went home & told his wife he was leaving & told her why--that there was nother with whom he was in love. They were divorced very quickly and she didn't want anything to do with him or did their adolescent daughter. After I left him, I met her. The story is that their daughter was having emergency brain surgery & could haved died. He was off somewhere writing his book & did not come back. A week after the surgery, the wife & the daughter went off to a recovery place for two weeks. So three weeks later, the wife returns to the marital dwelling with daughter. On the nightstand she finds a pair ofpierced earrings. (Wife does not have pierced ears & never wears earrings of any kind!) So she askes. Finds out that he has been with a woman for 3 weeks travelling & then they went to the maritial home. She threw him out! And he begged her not to throw him out. He did not want a divorce. Would not go away. Ended up with the other woman. (I think he was just too cheapo to get an apartment. Although he's successful & has money--it's all about subsidizing his lifestyle. & he can't be alone for a second.) And, I met the woman who replaced me. Also, another manufactured mythology of our relationship was sold to her. One cannot fathom the layer-upon-layer of deceit these men can operate. I know only the tip of the iceberg.

#19 Sep 24 - 1PM

wisdomneeded

the ONLY WAY they can live with themselves

Goldie, your comment about your dad triggered a memory for me. I have always been candid about my own dad being an alcoholic. My mom died when I was 11 and you would have thought they had a WONDERFUL marriage. Of course he was a Narc and re-wrote his history with my mom. That was truly the only way he could have lived with himself after her death. She was only 49. I finally get it...I never ever wanted my own daughter to live through what my mother did with my dad. There was nothing I could have done to protect her from what she went through...God Grant me the serenity to accept the things I can not change :/

#20 Sep 24 - 1PM

It.Was.All.Abou...

Yep

Constant deception. And being not psychopathic, we believe them. For awhile. The only closure I had was this: the behavior was so far from what she said to me (meaning she said she loved me, but she enjoyed my tears)... She said she hadn't lost interest in me, yet I was watching her pursue someone new. The d&d was public and cruel. Then she sent casual invitations to get together. I realized that she'd say or do whatever suited her at the time. Say anything she thought would get her what she wanted at the moment. So... The only thing that DID make sense was to run.

#21 Sep 24 - 1PM

Goldie

Oh so true

This is why it is nearly impossible to ever get to the bottom of it with a PD. When the cognative dissonance sets in and the brain is trying so hard to make sense of it all, you just cannot make sense of it all because so much of it is laced with lies and blantent deception. I used to think that if I could just figure it all out, then the obsessive thinking would stop. Well, it just does not work that way, with a PD, you do not get the normal closure and it cannot be wrapped up with a neat little bow and made sense of. The only thing which began to make sense for me was that he was disordered, it was not my fault, there is nothing I can do about it, and by staying with him, my entire life will be destroyed and this was the truth of the matter, all the rest of it is like trying to make sense out of pure insanity. You can't, there is no sense to it. They say whatever they think you want to hear or whatever sheds them in a better light and even when you catch them in the lies there are more new lies piled up on top of the old lies and the truth and reality of the thing are no where to be found. My father is a narc and he had very little to do with my son who is now 25 years old. I was a single mother so there were several occasions where I practically begged him to take my son and do some male bonding because I was working two jobs and felt that my son was lacking in this area. He flat out refused and had one excuse after another. I eventually stopped asking and he sure as shit never offered. NOW fast forward 25 years, he tells everyone, including me, what a wonderful relationship he had with my son and how he went out of his way to help him and even has countless details about all the times he came to my house and took my son places and on trips. He came to my house a few times in all those years and he and my son NEVER went on any trips together. The first time I encountered these "stories" I was completely stunned. Now I get it, and realize that it is the only way in which he can save face and appear as though he was the doting grandfather. My narc was the same way, story upon story upon story. The song and games which never end. A bottomless pit which leads us to nowhere but more lies. God bless, Goldie

#22 Sep 25 - 12AM (Reply to #19)

freaked

Dear Goldie, reading your

Dear Goldie, reading your post made a flurry of memory break open the flood gates for me. I think my father had a very very serious PD.. don't know which one but there was something surely wrong with him. He harassed my mother till she lived and then he died immediately later. and today I am realising that my brother too has a serious PD and he was the one who pushed me into this marriage with a person whose history he waas perfectly aware of, but hid from me and my mother. Today I have cut him off from my life. i just pray i never need to interact with him again. i am thinking, it is one thing for me to shred my NH for what he did to me and our child...but how can i forget that it was my brother and father who threw me into this pit?

#23 Sep 24 - 10PM (Reply to #18)

Sunafterrain

Goldie

My father was a psychopath and my mother an N of this I am sure. The lies are insurmountable. I could not make sense of my own pathological background, so I opted out by going NC completely with all of them. I feel like saying I'm sorry you suffered through an N parent, but you seem so strong and sure of yourself. I would like to be as present and as sure as you are and it's my goal. My ex lied so much, that in review, ....well it's not worth reviewing. I doubt that even through the small grains of truth sewn threw all of his lies, that a complete picture presents itself. I realized I can't make sense of it. It just is what it is, it was apart of my life for awhile, and now, thankfully, it is not.

#24 Sep 24 - 2PM (Reply to #14)

Pride and Shame

Goldie

Oh, Goldie - this is soooooooooo true. My God. The re-write and their absolute conviction of that edited version. Plus the AMBIGUITY of how they speak. That is an N art in itself. With "normal" people you hear their words AND you read them via their body language and their tone of voice. With N. that was at odds, or he would say something that could mean something else. I couldn't fault his literal WORDS, but the ambiguity, the tone and the physical delivery would be so contradictory. Of course, then he could defend himself by saying, "that's not what I said" and be accurate. And I would be sputtering about the meaning underlying his words, or the fact that he said something loving so coldly. And struggle to build my defense on elusive evidence that only I knew to be present. And we would replay the conversation over and, sure enough, whatever I had seen or thought or felt would be trumped by his actual words, oh so innocent and "literally correct". It's enough to drive people into insane asylums. So we validate ourselves on here and struggle to define this emotional, verbal and mental abuse until we are strong enough to understand it and go on..

#25 Sep 24 - 5PM (Reply to #15)

prettypeeved

Oh, that old ambiguity! That

Oh, that old ambiguity! That drove me absolutely crazy. Every time you thought he'd said something, and then later you called him out on it, it'd suddenly be changed so that you'd misunderstood and he'd really said something else. And that wasn't his fault. It was yours. I ended up trying to nail down every single thing he said so that he couldn't wriggle out of it later.

#26 Sep 24 - 6PM (Reply to #16)

wisdomneeded

Mis-Communication

That was the term that the Narc used. It was just "mis-communication". That means - He spoke----you listened---then he gets to interpret what you heard him say. He gets to interpret what it meant to you. The Narc also reserves the right to change the interpretation if it does not suit his purpose at that moment, all past moments, and any future moments AS HE SEES FIT.... All for the purpose of CLEARING UP ANY AND ALL MIS-COMMUNICATION - OH MY Gosh they are CRAZY!

#27 Sep 26 - 10PM (Reply to #17)

Susan32

My Interpretation

I highly recommend the Mika song "My Interpretation." It sounds like Mika was Narc'd, and he's singing about it. Interpretation is a BIG issue with Ns/Ps. My former Narc boss always thought he was being misunderstood, but that's because he was making huge promises and never following through. Ns/Ps have a difficult time with people who have DIFFERING interpretations. So dialogue is somewhat impossible, along with "agree to disagree." Agreeing to disagree with a Narc is like pulling teeth. The ex-Psych prof threw a tantrum at the Q&A session after his first lecture, because students took different perspectives. All he could sputter was "Read the book!" If it was a WHY question, or asking him HIS interpretation/opinion, it was like throwing gas on a fire. The reason why his idols, Arthur Schopenhauer and Ludwig Wittgenstein, are famous is because they had opinions of their OWN. Beliefs of their OWN. They didn't parrot anybody. I remember once arguing with the ex-P, and he said, "Do what I say! Don't interpret what I say!" It was because I had read this part of the first epilogue of his beloved "War and Peace"- "The entire household was governed according to Pierre's supposed orders, that is, by his wishes which Natasha tried to guess. Their way of life, their place of residence, their acquaintances and ties, Natasha's occupations, the children's upbringing, were all selected not merely with regard to Pierre's expressed wishes, but to what Natasha supposed his wishes to be from the thoughts he expressed in conversation." Now, some translations say that Pierre gave orders, and that Natasha follows them ACCORDING TO HER INTERPRETATION. The final D&D could be seen as fundamental disagreement, differing interpretations, and brains being wired differently. He compartmentalized; I'm holistic. He's like the little kid who separates EVERYTHING on his plate; I'm the person at the India restaurant who mixes together the naan, the tomato sauce, the eggs in one melange. Ns/Ps can take things VERY literally. When I talked to the ex-P about "Anna Karenina",all he could robotically say was that it was "about the fall of a noble woman from grace." Total lack of nuance. Go figure, my essay about "Anna Karenina" during the final D&D was about how Alexei Karenin and Constantine Levin are father figures to their much younger wives Anna Karenina and Princess Kitty, how their husbands see them as children, incapable of seeing them as equals, and how this lack of equality destroys the Karenins' marriage (and the Levins' event horizon is not promising) No wonder one of my profs at the time said I was being autobiographical without writing in the first person. I was holding up a mirror to my situation;it wasn't pretty.

#28 Sep 24 - 1PM (Reply to #7)

wisdomneeded

OVER THINKING

That should be my middle name. I, like you thought if I could just figure this out. Sooooooooooo.....I thought and thought and came up with the same answer you did Goldie - THERE IS NONE! They are disordered! There is no answer to that! There is no Closure! The ONLY Closure is NO CONTACT. It is all about PEACE OF MIND! Our Peace of Mind - not his peace of mind because to quote a movie classic "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn", about his peace of mind.

#29 Sep 24 - 1PM (Reply to #8)

Goldie

Exactly Wisdom

And this is generally when the obsessive thinking subsides. When we stop trying to figure it out. It is good to think about it for awhile in the beginning because this is what allows us to see what we are going through and to get out of it, however, when the obsessive thinking becomes chronic and is interferring with your ability to function properly, the only answer I have found in which to stop it, is to accept the things you can not change and let it go. Stop trying to figure it out because we can get stuck in the Understanding it step and faze. God bless, Goldie

#30 Sep 24 - 10PM (Reply to #9)

deckard

I am so obsessed

I am so obsessed with every little detail - of figuring out everything still even as we are still talking to each other (barely at this point). I go over it and over it and then I end up blaming myself. I end up thinking maybe I did do everything wrong like he says. Perhaps I did overreact to his cheating and betrayal. Maybe it wasn't such a big deal. Maybe I should have done everything differently. Maybe it is me?

#31 Sep 24 - 10PM (Reply to #10)

Elena

Cheating?

Cheating and betrayal?! There's no excuse for cheating! Betrayal is failing the other person. If there are relationship issues, they can be worked through in a different and healthier way, that's is never an excuse for cheating. If a man or a woman is taking the "cheating" route as an excuse, it's not the other person's fault. The other person deserves a "respectable" way of relationship conflict resolution.

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