Why can't their brains be fixed?

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#1 May 18 - 10PM

beamoflight

Why can't their brains be fixed?

Ok, I am quite a bit tipsy at this point ..lol.. forgive me.

BUT-- WHY CANT THEY GET FIXED???

Is it that they choose not to-- or is there a real reason why they cant get there heads on straight?

I was a very abused child but I got my sh!t together-- WTF?

Why cant they just cut the sh!T? Is it that they dont want to or are they really mentally ill?

Anyone?

#2 May 19 - 7PM

Steph

There is known serial killers

There is known serial killers that came from loving homes, a "normal" childhood etc......but they end up killing people and doing sick and twisted things. And, there are, like you said, people that have had an abusive and abnormal childhood... but these people go on and have meaningful lives and form and maintain meaningful relationships. This is why, my personal opinion is that NPD/sociopaths are BORN that way. It is a biological problem, defect. Their brains are LACKING. It's hard to grasp that someone with this disorder can't "fix" themselves. I know. I view it like this..... If someone is born with diabetes.....well, they have diabetes. They can take insulin to control the symptoms and prevent future problems....BUT they still have diabetes. And no matter how much councelling and therapy they go to....they will ALWAYS have diabetes. There is NO medication out there that GIVES someone EMPATHY......and it is the lack of empathy that is the most significant problem with a NPD, IMO. Without empathy, you can't really love. Having no empathy is what allows a person to be abusive. It allows them to go on "without a care in the world". I don't know if this makes sense lol, but that's how I see it. xoxo

#3 May 22 - 2PM (Reply to #36)

shyloh

IT WOULD TAKE A LOBOTOMY! I

IT WOULD TAKE A LOBOTOMY! I could have avoided a divorce if only someone gave him a lobotomy. I am not tipsy, but I am giggling:)))

#4 May 19 - 9PM (Reply to #35)

TovaBella

SS78, once again you rock!

Very well put Staying Strong78! You used a great example and painted a very clear picture :) TovaBella

#5 May 19 - 2PM

Hunter

Why

Because his mother must have dropped him on his head! Caused him brain damage! :) my guess is more than once. Hunter

#6 May 22 - 8PM (Reply to #33)

alittledark

he he

too funny

I do not want the peace which passeth understanding, I want the understanding which bringeth peace.
--Helen Keller

#7 May 19 - 10PM (Reply to #32)

sara-smile

Hunter

I've got to stop reading your posts while taking a sip of anything to drink. I just snorted Mello Yellow out of my nose! Baaaa Haaaaaaaaaaa! Hilarious!

#8 May 19 - 1PM

janine

No cure for NPD

N's therapist told me that everyone in his profession dreads the moment a Narc walks in, because they cannot be treated successfully. When you think about it it seems obvious that this great big artificial ego that has "protected" them for decades is a huge obstacle. My ex devalued the therapist he'd initially clung to. That is the N's grandiosity and arrogance. The other thing I remember reading is that when there had been continued childhood trauma parts of the brain cannot fully develop or get damaged beyond repair. I did not talk my ex back into therapy for those reasons, it seems hopeless.

#9 May 19 - 4PM (Reply to #30)

empath

Abandon all hope in the N., hope for yourself instead!

It IS hopeless for them, it is not hopeless for you. I wish you the very best in your continued recovery. :)

#10 May 19 - 12PM

Susan32

A Beautiful Mind

A year after the final D&D, "A Beautiful Mind" came out, starring Russell Crowe&Jennifer Connelly. The movie basically suggests that love healed the schizophrenic John Nash's mind. I remember saying at the time "Every girl's dream. Marrying her mentally ill professor." It's incredibly simplistic. Schizophrenia in males sometimes occurs with the onset of puberty (the same happened with the real life lead in "The Soloist" played by Jamie Foxx)... and once the testosterone levels drop, so does the schizophrenia quiet down. I thought I could cure the ex-Psych prof with love. He was missing mirror neurons. It saddens me that he had MAJOR neurological issues, beyond his control, let alone mine. He's mentally the same age as my nephew. My nephew is pushing 2.

#11 May 22 - 7PM (Reply to #24)

Hope

schizophrenia and bi-polar

can both be treated with medication, those are the two mental illnesses I have read that can be. My Dad had schizophrenia. I believe it's genetic.

#12 May 22 - 7PM (Reply to #25)

Steph

Difference between a

Difference between a "personality disorder" and a "mental illness". Narcissism isn't a mental illness. I agree though, mental illness or personality disorder.....genetic. xoxo

#13 May 22 - 8PM (Reply to #26)

Susan32

The Love Cure(???)

NPD can have its basis in upbringing as well, whereas it's been shown that psychopaths TRULY have dysfunctional brains. Genetically. Still, "A Beautiful Mind" dangled before me, cruelly, a year after the final D&D, that somehow mental problems can be cured with *LOVE.* A student marries her older, brilliant math professor, he struggles with schizophrenia... she cures him with her love&he wins a Nobel Prize. The ex-Psych prof had mental issues that Narcs in my life don't have- processing music, it's something he doesn't "get" and the ability to dream. Psychopaths have issues with the frontal lobes, mirror neurons, as well as the amygdala that regulates traffic between both sides of the brain. Love can't cure that. Sad to say, Hollywood makes it look so easy.

#14 May 22 - 8PM (Reply to #27)

mynewlife2011

had alot of growing up to do

I had an awful lot of growing up to do. I too thought love could and would conquer all. After all, even the Bible Corinthians 13.. Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. 8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. I found out it takes sooo much more than love to keep a family together. It was a very very painful discovery, and went against anything I was ever told from the time I was a child.

#15 May 22 - 8PM (Reply to #28)

Susan32

The marriage cure

If I had married the ex-Psych prof a decade ago (instead of his girlfriend)... I would've been miserable, and so would've been the kids. It would've been LOTS of misery. Love&marriage wouldn't have cured that. I would've come to this board possibly insane... and maybe lucky to be alive. It gripes me when people say that marriage somehow miraculously cures people of their selfishness. One of my friends is an older gentleman who'd talk about how having kids civilizes people, especially men, once they realize they're dealing with vulnerable children. I told him that there are abusers out there, and that MARRIAGE DOES NOT CURE THEM. Leo Tolstoy fathered 13 children with his wife Sofia, and tho he was married to her for 48 years, he engaged in frequent physical&emotional abandonment. In his diaries, he is practically indifferent to his children. He was against medicine... despite the fact that many of his kids died young. Having children didn't make him a nurturing, protective man. He remained abusive... abandoning his family in the final ends&leaving them penniless. Painter Amedeo Modigliani was still addicted to drugs&drink, even when fathered a daughter with his common law wife. Their daughter ended up being raised by others. Fatherhood didn't civilize Modigliani. He destroyed himself. Fatherhood didn't civilize Charlie Sheen. Marriage&fatherhood didn't turn Donald Trump into a paragon of humility&self-sacrifice. Marriage doesn't cure people.

#16 May 19 - 7AM

Goldie

There are numerous theories on this

The one that makes the most sense for me is that when they are children they either suffer from an over abundance of attention or are traumatized in some way. These extreme behaviors can have various effects on a child. Some identify with their perpetrator, shut down emotionally, and become cold, dead inside. Others are showered with so much unhealthy attention by a doting mother that they never learn impulse control or develop normally due to an over abundance of attention by a controlling mother. Some people who experience trauma like yourself become empaths and overly sensitive to other's feelings and become co dependent nurturers, as a way to cope with their abuse. All these behaviors are extremes and are not effective in developing healthy relationships. A PD has shut down emotionally years ago and does not have the ability to empathize with others, therefore they are not capable of a lasting meaningful relationship because there is no give and take flow aside from their "act" in the beginning. They are the great pretenders. Mimics of what life is "supposed" to look like. The empath did not shut down so much emotionally as to internalize their pain and inflict it upon themselves in many different ways, the one that we are referring to here is to repeat the pattern of bad relationships with emotionally unavailable partners to try and fix at long last the damage from their past. The have a higher chance at recovery due to the fact that they did not shut down emotionally. Studies show that when a child shuts down emotionally the success rate of reintergrating the various parts of the personality are slim to nil and of course the person would have to be a willing participate in their therapy and how many PD's do you know who would remain involved in therapy for years and years which is what it would take to repair all of that damage and even then some of it may be permanent. Meanwhile because the mind, body, and soul are all contected this also becomes obvious in the brains, and spirits of the PD. Many of them are what you would call spiritually bankrupt and studies have found differences in the brains of Psychopaths. Was it the chicken or the egg. Were they born this way or did the dysfunction cause the brain to shrink because it was not being properly nurtured. Who is to say for sure? The bottomline here is that the prognosis of recovery for an adult PD is not high. God bless, Goldie

#17 May 19 - 9PM (Reply to #22)

TovaBella

Thank you, Goldie

Thank you for that post, Goldie :) I needed to read that this evening. TovaBella

#18 May 19 - 9AM (Reply to #21)

beamoflight

Oh Goldie (((hugs))) Thank

Oh Goldie (((hugs))) Thank you so much. That's me... and him. I am overly sensitive-- and he's about as sensitive as a rock. I'm going to print that out and read it some more.

#19 May 19 - 6AM

onwithmylife

BEAMof light

What empath said to you really resonated with me. They are emotionally underdeveloped or immature, those words coming from a great therapist I had a few years ago, I used the term mentally ill and he said no, it is a personality disorder that cannot be treated by any medicine and even with behavioral therapy, highly iffy, because as she said, they think they are perfect and everyone else is crazy,, but if you remember how a 2 year old toddler is when they are hollering and screaming, you know how difficult it can be to reason with them, well these guys are stuck in toddler mode from whatever happened in their early childhood, I think mother plays a huge role and maybe genetics as well.thye are stuck in the toddler stage of it is all about them, that is what is so bleak about this whole thing, they CANNOT be fixed period, but you can work on yourself, for you have the insight they sadly LACK......horribly sad, I spent 15 years trying to make it work, huge chunk of anyones life.....

#20 May 18 - 11PM

michele115 (not verified)

They are really Mentally ILL

There have been discussions on "fixing" the brains of sociopaths, but the experimenting on humans is very controversial...involving brain stents, electric shock, all kinds of methods to try to alter brain signals, chemistry and such AND not proven just theories and considered unethical to experiment based upon speculation vs. conclusive evidence and hence the conundrum the proverbial catch 22 as how do you get conclusive evidence unless you study on humans? Who, Narc or not would sign up for that kind of "study?" While the victims may have a different point of view, it falls in there with other popular debatable "moral" "ethical" research issues like stem cell research and cloning etc...although the latter two do seem to have progressed, not sure if the brain studies on humans in that capacity would ever be approved. Hugs!

#21 May 18 - 11PM

mynewlife2011

my understanding

1. It occurs in early childhood development where their personality splits (almost like multiple personaility disorder), it is not a mood disorder regulated by chemicals/hormones etc..therefore, meds don't work nor help (unless there is an obssessive compulsive component to the individual) 2. No one can help ANYONE who does not want the help! Narcs think they are perfect and have no problems, and place blame on others. If they could only take an objective view, but they can't.

#22 May 19 - 2AM (Reply to #2)

empath

You can't fix them, you can only fix yourself.

To expand upon this question, I wonder WHY it is being asked. While we spend time wondering "why", the N. is off gathering supply. They are not wondering WHY normal people with feelings are the way we are, and they are not wondering why they are not normal. They are only wondering if they can use us as NS, or not use us as NS. NPD is not treatable. This is a deeply ingrained behavioral disorder that began in their childhood. Their defense mechanisms have defense mechanisms...you cannot "get through" to a N. You and a thousand highly skilled psychologists could not "fix" a N. It has nothing to do with how "special" or "worthy" you are or how capable you are of "fixing" problems or "helping" others. You cannot "love" them out of this permanent character defect. Unlike you, they lack empathy. Unlike you, they feel nothing when they exploit and hurt other people, and they do this purposefully and consciously. They are able to turn it on and off, depending upon the receptivity of the NS, and most importantly, whether they can get away with it or not. If you are vulnerable with self-esteem issues and therefore a "good" source of supply, they will keep taking and taking and taking until you have nothing left. If you are not a good source of supply, they will simply move on. The best and kindest thing you could do is turn all of your love and care and attention towards fixing yourself. Fix yourself so that you are no longer prey for these predators. While it can be very difficult to envision getting yourself to a healthier place mentally where you are no longer vulnerable to N. attack, yet you must know and believe that this healthier mental state exists and that it is possible to get there. The only way to "fix" a N. is by fixing YOURSELF, by making yourself invisible to their radar. Learn to look compassionately upon yourself for a change, rather than offering your compassion to an unappreciative N. You will drive yourself crazy trying to "fix" or even to "understand" a N.; this is because you have NO CONCEPT of being a person with NO EMPATHY. You will continue to project YOUR feelings and YOUR values onto the N. and expect the N to behave as YOU behave and respond as YOU respond. That mistake will cost you your sanity. You "fix" the N. by fully accepting that the N. is NOT FIXABLE. You "fix" the N. by removing their power and control over you, and reclaiming that power for yourself. You "fix" the N by accepting that they are a grown adult consciously choosing to behave in a shallow, childish, exploitative manner towards others. You "fix" the N. when you LET GO of the need to "fix", "change" or "control" them. As you direct your focus back to fixing yourself, you will gain perspective on your behavior as well as their behavior, and you will lose your desire to waste your precious time and energy and resources trying to "FIX" the N. When you truly love yourself, you will no longer "love" the N. and won't hurt over them or be able to be hurt by them again. Your feelings of love for the N. are in direct proportion to your feelings of not loving yourself. Your feelings of wanting to "fix" the N are in direct proportion to your feelings of not wanting to address the issues necessary to fix yourself. Get brutally honest and admit to yourself that perhaps you are focusing so much on the N. in order to avoid having to take control of your own life and be responsible for your own happiness. As you accept the hopelessness and futility of "fixing": an N. and work on fixing yourself instead, the pain you are feeling and attributing towards the N's treatment of you, will fade away. Your N. found their way into your psyche through your weak spots. Strengthen your weak spots so this N. and other Ns cannot get back in. Strengthen your weak spots until you learn to recognize and run from Ns. or better yet, until they learn to recognize you as a non-victim, and they run away from you. Fix the N. by fixing yourself. If you are here reading this blog, you are already on the path to fixing yourself. Stay the course and know that you will come through the other side and be healed. There is a great collective wisdom to be found here from all of us who have experienced a N. Take note that the pathology of the N's behavior is consistently the same throughout all of our experiences. Do not mislead yourself with dangerous and destructive thinking by believing that somehow your N. is going to be the exception or worse, set yourself up for devastation by thinking you are going to be the exception that causes them to change. They can't change. They can't be fixed. The truth is, they don't want to be fixed! There is no restoring them to "normal" because they have never been! They have been N. since they were children, and inside their adult bodies, they still are children. They know their behavior is abhorrent..and they don't care! It's not your place to tell someone they "need" to be "fixed", and it's not your job to "fix" them. Accept that so you can move forward and heal. Once you've turned your attention fully towards fixing yourself, "fixing" the N. and their "problems" will no longer matter to you. Stay strong. Stay the course. Do not give away your power by believing that the N. is the source of your joy and happiness as well as the source of your sadness and anxiety. No one has that power, unless you give it to them. Love someone worthy of your love...love yourself. :)

#23 May 22 - 3PM (Reply to #17)

Alibi_10

Empath

Thank you so much for this wonderful post

#24 May 21 - 7PM (Reply to #16)

wacaet

wow,I really needed that

wow,I really needed that today

#25 May 19 - 1PM (Reply to #15)

sadlymistaken

Empath

This is so true and helpful. Thank you for taking the time to share your wisdom.

#26 May 19 - 6AM (Reply to #3)

beamoflight

I understand what you're

I understand what you're saying-- I do. I also have some self esteem issues I am working on. I can't help but remember his vunerable side. I've only seen it 3 times. I know it's going to sound off but I really believe on some level deep inside he does love me. As strange as it sounds-- I know this because when he does show me that little glimps of his "real" self-- he's insecure, uncertain, depressed. It's quite sad actually. I also know that once I get a glimps of his real self one of two things always happen-- (1) he runs away (that's the most easy) OR (2) he'll do something so f-ed up I'm rendered speechless. I "think" the reason for number two is that he's scared. I seriously think his real self esteem is SO low that he MUST build himself up in his mind. I think this is because nobody ever did it for him. You know, after he does things that are screwed up-- I step back and shake my head. I take some time and wait and then I break it down piece by piece for him. I "try" ..lol.. and I say "try" to do it in the most calm and logical way I can. When I do this-- I see, he knows. He does not apologize usally-- but he in turn explains himself to me. On some level it's like dealing with a 6 year old. They feel bad for a second and then-- poof! it's forgotten. It's emotionally exausting. You are right-- I know it's best to move on and forget he's around. Everyday I say to myself "Beam, HE WILL 1. never put you first 2. cheat with no remorse 3. always be critical of me 4. always be so critical of everybody else 5. do crazy things-- like I read here and see how women have been left in the hospital to have a baby, a medical procedure-- different things-- one thing is the same-- their ex-N would be out with friends, another woman, playing sports. and I dont want that for myself. I want to be happy with a guy-- not be so insecure all the time. ((sigh)) I really do need to work on my weak points THEN see where I am in my life. I hate being on emotional roller coasters. Thanks.

#27 May 19 - 1PM (Reply to #4)

empath

Been there, done that...it's not worth it.

beamoflight, I spent 6 years of my life doing what you're doing...seeing that "inner potential" of your N. Know that there is no inner potential! Waiting on hope is the most devastating thing you can do to yourself. We all want to believe that no one is beyond repair..the N is beyond repair. We all want to believe that if we love them enough, they will reveal their "true self" to us and feel safe and our love will heal them. Know that this is a game you are playing with yourself, because you are avoiding your own issues. The closer you get to the N.'s "true self" the higher the risk to them and the stronger their defense mechanisms will kick in...and it does kick in! Your N. is playing a game with you as well...they know that by showing you these "crumbs" that you feed with your compassion, they are keeping you on the hook. Keeping you believing in the illusion that they are just sensitive hurt little boys and everyone else has injured them. This will hook you so deeply, this will give you such a case of the crazies...a bad case of cognitive dissonance...and keep you in such a state of perpetual anxiety, that you will excuse and justify away ANY behavior that the N. exhibits. Mine was a somatic N. He cheated and cheated and cheated and he amused himself that he had everybody fooled into feeling sorry for him, because he was just a "sensitive guy" who had been so "wronged" by the women in his life. He kept his women a secret from each other, lied to us all, yet would drop just enough hints to keep us wondering and anxious and on our toes to please him. I told myself if he was cheating, it wasn't personal, that it was just because he had been hurt so badly and eventually he would feel "safe" enough to be his "true self" with me...because I was somehow "different" and "special". I fed myself this lie for 6 years. I went through an emotional turmoil in my personal life...my father almost died and was in and out of the hospital several times over the course of a month. During this time I received absolutely no emotional support from the N., he just couldn't provide it and didn't know how to respond to me. It was then, the first time that I looked to my N. to supply MY needs for a change, that I began to realize how inappropriate his behavior truly was. People who were only acquaintances of mine and knew what was going on with my dad and had the good manners to ask me how things were going, yet the N. I was with for 6 years was completely unable to care about me and my family issue and never once showed even a feigned compassion or empathy for my situation. When my dad recovered, thank God, I realized that time had been a blessing to me, because it opened my eyes to the reality that all of us have hurts and stresses in our lives, yet we don't take them out on other people, we dont use other people like emotional airbags to cushion our emotional crashes and then walk away leaving them deflated. The N. uses people to meet their needs without any genuine concern for them as people. If they seem to exhibit concern, and I say "seem to" because their displays of concern is only mirroring and is not sincerely rooted in empathy or compassion, it is because ultimately it leads back to a benefit for them in some way to seem concerned. Clinging to the fantasy that a N. has this inner potential, clinging to the hope that they will "open up" and "feel safe" and "change" if only you love them enough, will at best rob you of all your time and energy. At worst it will bring you so dangerously close to their cruel defense mechanisms that you will suffer. Clinging to this "hope" for the N. to reveal this illusion of who you think they truly are inside, is delusional on your part. Your N. is manipulating you into believing this, and you are buying into it. Waiting on an N. to have feelings and "blossom" into their "true self" is like trying to change a lump of coal into a diamond. Actually, it is like trying to change a lump of dirt into a lump of coal and then into a diamond. It's not worth it, it is not worth the cost to you. I say this with 6 years of experience of being the most optimistic, faithful, hopeful, loving, supportive, empathic person I know to an N. who was more than happy to keep stringing me (and others) along and taking all he could. An N. doesn't change. They can't, they don't, they won't. They are incapable. It won't happen and it's not worth it for you to lose your soul and your future in the attempt. Let go of your need to fix yourself by fixing them, let go of your thinking that you can somehow control them and bring about this great "potential" you tell yourself they must have somehwere deep inside, if only they could get past their hurt. They DO get past their hurt, they do this by passing it along to everyone else in their life, and they are never going to change that behavior. Stop lying to yourself in order to justify their bad behavior. Adults make conscious choices about how they treat other people, and the N. knows right from wrong. They KNOW what they do is WRONG and they think it is FUNNY to exploit others in the fulfillment of their own selfish purposes. Why would you want to consciously subject yourself to being wth someone like that who is going to use you, lie to you and manipulate you? Why, when there are so many nice, trustworthy, well-adjusted, emotionally mature people in there world who don't behave like an N.? Cut your losses waiting on hope for this lump of coal and look for a diamond to start with next time. After you've healed yourself of what hooks you into relationships with an N. so that it doesn't repeat itself, you will learn how to tell the diamonds from the lumps of coal, and you won't be drawn into situations like this again. All I can say is I am glad my 6 years of hard time with my N wasn't 7 years or 10 years or the rest of my life, because I really was that deeply hooked into his manipulative behavior that I probably would have stayed forever waiting on hope for him to change. I was lucky in how I got away from him, I was spared much of the D&D, and it was only after I made the decision to go NC that I saw him for what he really was. Actions speak louder than words, and the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. You have to assess the N. in reality, by how he treats you and nothing else...not by how you imagine or hope he could treat you "someday", after he's "healed". There is nothing for them to "heal" from, this is how they are and who they are, and there is no "normal" for them to be "rehabilitated" to, this is how they've always been and how they always will be, this twisted behavior IS their normal. They don't play by our rules, they make us bend to play to theirs. Stop bending. Stop compromising your soul and your future. No one, not even a good man, is worth that. The N. will never let anyone...not even themselves...see their true inner selves...any time you get close to their core, they will avoid you or set you up for a major D&D. Abandon all hope for the N., it is the best thing you could do for yourself. Run. Run like hell, and keep running. You will eventually come out the other side of this better and stronger, and thinking much more clearly once you've spent time away from the crazymaking behavior of your N. Abandon ALL hope for your N. and hope for yourself instead.

#28 May 22 - 8PM (Reply to #14)

alittledark

Thanks Empath

this has been my problem for the past two years. Like someone else said earlier about another post..this one needs to be printed to be read later as a reminder.

I do not want the peace which passeth understanding, I want the understanding which bringeth peace.
--Helen Keller

#29 May 22 - 8AM (Reply to #13)

onwithmylife

Empath for you

you said it so well and so true, Sure maybe in moments of clarity, like Beam said ,they did love us in their own sick way, and then again maybe it was all a fake on their part, but it is all for nothing, in the end because they can and will never be normal people who show the full range of emotions that normal people can do.You wrote a most powerful post!! thanks.and do I realize that ACTIONS speak louder than words.I am so glad you come onto this board and I feel confident others would second my opinion!!

#30 May 19 - 4PM (Reply to #10)

mynewlife2011

Empath

Bravo! I recognize the amount of education,strength, and suffering you have been through to reach this stage and to share with others!!

#31 May 19 - 8PM (Reply to #11)

empath

Thanks again. :)

Thank you, mynewlife. I am deeply grateful to have survived after 6 years of being an emotional airbag for a N. and doing it willingly, which made it even worse. I did not know what I had gotten myself into, and I thank God every day for getting me out of it. What a blessing to have found such a wealth of knowledge on the internet, and how lucky we all are to have this blog. No one can truly understand this except someone who has lived through it.

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