The Painful Realization

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#1 Jan 20 - 2PM

Anonymous (not verified)

The Painful Realization

I will miss my fantasy man as all of us do and will, I will miss all the hopes and dreams and I will miss the deep love I once felt for this pathological man, I know I will never ever love this way again and that is a GOOD thing.

I am finding it difficult to channel the love I once felt for nothing but a mirage and directing my capacity to love and feel towards genuine and healthy individuals.

Feeling love, loyality and knowing that a healthy partner would NEVER abuse or hurt me is something rather foreign to me. I dont miss the abuse but I think at times, wait a minute nobody will love me without abusing me so whats up? When are you going to start lying, manipulating, cheating and betraying me, after all there is something about my personality structure it seems that attract these sort of individuals. I love, give, nurture, and all I get back is absolutely NOTHING that warrants what I need in return to sustain me. What do I find so appealing about BAD men, men who are predators, men who literally destroy good women, men that suffer personality disorders, men that control and abuse, men that are unfaithful, men who con, and degrade women, how could I have let myself get trauma bonded to such an individual let alone brainwashed.

NC should not be difficult it should be the healthy course to take in order to make my life better, moving away from destruction by NC should free my heart and soul. I should be leaping and skipping with a joyful heart yet there is an awful sadness that comes over me. I am not losing a damn thing for I never had it to begin with, he only made me imagine I had it. He created this picture in my head that he loved me and I acted on it for him, which is what he wanted me to do. He is creating the same image for his GF and whoever else he has on the side. I am scared I will never be able to love again or be even able to receive love from another, not because I am pathological like him but because I have been soooo wounded and I have shut my heart off.

#2 Jan 24 - 2PM

The Girlfriend ...

Hi 'Cynthia'

You express yourself so well and I see parts of my own story in yours. I just wanted everyone to know I am hanging in there with NC. He is stalking me...but also frantically searching to find a replacement for me as fast as possible. He called all week, until I changed all my phone numbers. So far he hasn't figured out he can write me on my email...and I DID block his facebook profile...It isn't easy, but I have support and good counseling to help me. All I can think about his frantic search for his next victim is how sorry I feel for her..whoever she will be, soon I am sure. She, like me, will probably believe the very charming, attractive 'great guy' persona he pretends to be...and it will take a long time for her to find out about his history of violence, mood and personality instability, and his multiple arrests for violent abusive behaviors, his abuse, lying, cheating, child abuse charges and conviction, and his porn and sex addiction. It will take a while for her to see past his mask to really know the truth of how destrctive this man IS. Hopefully she will see it sooner and leave before he causes her too much damage... There ought to be laws about these criminals and a special jail created just for them. I wish they had a special place in HELL for all the harm, damage and hurt they cause to others. Anyway, just checking in here on this website to let you guys know I am hanging in there. My computer is not working so I sometimes get to the library to check my email and the messages here. Feel free to ask Barbara or 'Cynthia' for my contact info as I am in contact with them. I could use support from you guys too, as no one understands better about this particular situation than those who have also been through it. xo Blessings and love to everyone here.

#3 Jan 24 - 8PM (Reply to #30)

Carolyn

I think there are ways to

I think there are ways to find out about someone's criminal record. If this guy is stalking you and he has all of those sexual problems he is known to the criminal justice system. Your story is a good reason why women should investigate anyone that they are dating that is not known in their circle of family and friends. Someone new in town might be fresh from jail. Most private investigators are usually retired or ex cops and they have a lot of ways to find out things. I never did any criminal investigation so I don't know much about the processes. Any one living in a big city who meets a 'prince' better find out if he has been in 'frog' trouble somewhere else.

#4 Jan 24 - 10PM (Reply to #31)

Barbara (not verified)

criminal search

many cities now have closed access to criminal information... unfortunately which is why I tell women to LIST THEM ON THE EXPOSURE SITES... many of those sites are googleable. ~~~~~~~~~ The truth will set you free... but first it will piss you off - Gloria Steinem Visit My Abuse Website

#5 Jan 20 - 6PM

no more

We are all worhty

Eveyone on this site is here for a reason. We should all feel blessed we have found each other. Everything happens for a reason and I am still trying to figure out the reason of why I was CHOSEN for a relationship with an N. One reason is we have found each other, AND we are all worthy of better. Can anyone come up with other reasons?

I just got involved with the same N for the second time.
What was I thinking? Because I have put myself back to the same point where I am blaming myself again. And for what?
I want to get rid of these feelings again.

#6 Jan 20 - 8PM (Reply to #27)

Ellen

I think i was chosen

Hi, I am starting to think the relationships i have had were to help me to deal with inequality of men and women in society. I wasn't quite there with 10 years single cos then i had two with a narc. He needed to finish the job of my discovery of abusers. Now i can bring up a healthy little girl in society with a whole wonderful life. I could never have done that so well without this knowledge. I needed to experience it first hand to help T to avoid it. My mother couldn't help me cos she didn't have the skills and the know how. She tried in the only way she knows but it wasn't enough.We have to keep moving on. I am starting to feel really blessed for this experience and i know some on here don't understand that but it has been an amazing and painful learning curve. I have had to overide all the stereotypes i have been taught and have been forced to delve even deeper into myself to find out who i am. Just when i think there can be no more to learn another load of lessons arrive. I wonder if i will ever get a break or will i have to keep growing non stop.

#7 Jan 20 - 8PM (Reply to #28)

no more

Don't be so hard on yourself

I personally hope that I DO keep growing non stop. I am no way near ready to give up.

#8 Jan 20 - 7PM (Reply to #25)

cynthia (not verified)

why I was CHOSEN for a relationship with an N.

It seems during the course of my life I fell victim to this horrible experience and I dont know why, I dont believe it had anything to do with God, maybe it was just a lesson that I needed to learn, maybe it was a lesson that I needed in order to truly learn to love myself, and as we all know in the end it comes down to that choice, do you love yourself enough to conquer this and KNOW this will ultimately destroy you in the end if you dont remove yourself from it. Yes we have all been brought together by what loving a disordered person can do to ones life, and OMG we have always been worthy of so much better, its just taken me so long to see that personally. Those who love me tell me that, and all those who support me and encourage me on this site tell me that everyday, that I am sooo much better than anything my predator could have ever been, guess I needed to discover that for myself to believe it

#9 Jan 20 - 8PM (Reply to #26)

no more

cynthia

I too have fallen victim to more than just one N and it has taken up till now to be able to recognize that I have made very poor and toxic choices. It took the last N to realize this and actually sit down and take a good hard look at my inner self. I am trying soooo hard to get my head around the reasons that I have made such poor choices. I'm sure that in my case it is because I learned this from my mom. I saw her make so many poor choices for love too. I don't want to go to my grave unhappy like she did. I also want to show a better example for my son. I want him to be able to be proud of his mom for making good choices. I know he wants this for me too. It feels good actually to have come to this conclusion and be able to look back on my life and take this time for me. It feels good to be able to admit to myself and recognize that I HAVE made poor choices and maybe the reason I have made such poor choices has been because I needed to make them so that I can do this self reflection. You can't change anything if you don't first recognize that there is a need to change. I feel that I am learning and growing so much as a result. I am getting rid of a lot of other toxic relationships also. I know it will be well worth it in the end. I know just like everyone else on this site we DESERVE and are WORTHY of the best and it will come to us. I don't mean just with another love relationship either. It is all about the relationship that we have first with our selves. That is when we will be able to really move on and make the BEST choices in EVERYTHING we do in life.

#10 Jan 20 - 5PM

rache

Fantasies

Cynthia,honey i am so sorry.I too am a nurturer,giver,and,love deeply,yet,not only have i had very bad experiences with cheating men/liars(last husband-S/N-being the worst),but,ex girl-friends(pathologicals!)too.IF,we learn nothing else,we,must learn to start loving ourselves enough to say "HEY! wait a minute here!!!!! i refuse to get involved with anyone who doesn't make me feel better when being around them.We should walk away feeling uplifted instead of drained and beat down.I too fell in love with a fantasy.these people are so mean and cruel they seek out-like Barbara said on here the better of people to try to destroy.i cannot remember exactly her words but the ones like us-the nurturers,givers,lovers,are exactly the OPPOSITE of what they are and they try to suck us dry! VAMPIRES are a good word to describe them-they seduce only to destroy.An EVIL thing.I am glad there are women on here like me,because,we are the good ones,and,we can help each other to LET GO OF THE BAD!

#11 Jan 20 - 6PM (Reply to #23)

cynthia (not verified)

Rache

LET GO OF THE BAD! AND boy are they bad!!! I pray for clarity, some days I am clear as a bell and others... in sneaks that damage he did to me, the trauma bonding, brainwashing the sick connection I had with him. Thats funny you said, we should feel good being around someone that loves us NOT BAD, I NEVER felt good being with him, oh sure his words and charm made me feel special but in person? Forget it!! He always made me feel like week old garbage that stunk and he couldnt wait to get away from. He was always excited and glad to see me but after an hour he was done. When you cant bond or emotionally connect with anyone what do you expect. After all when I am done hammering a nail into the wall I dont lay around and engage in pillow talk with my hammer, I throw the hammer back in the tool shack where the OBJECT belongs.

#12 Jan 20 - 4PM

4joys4

It's that fear of being

It's that fear of being alone without a relationship that these predators smell. The key for me is recognizing things that are wrong at the very beginning. Any clue that this person is not good for me and I have to hightail it out of there. That goes for friendships with women too. I have a tendency to let things ride because it feels normal. I do this with my health as well as something breaking down in the house. An appliance for example. Or I won't go to the doctors until I'm pretty sick. People who take care of themselves catch things early. Thats the skill I'm learning. I need the input of healthy people to tell me what is abuse sometimes or what is not right. So I understand that part. That post Barbara put up today about how can we say we love him was really helpful to me.

#13 Jan 20 - 4PM (Reply to #20)

AnotherPath

4joys4 I'm really with you

4joys4 I'm really with you on this. I don't trust myself to get out quick enough when something is not right. I need to work on this a lot and I too have friends I talk to that know immediately that it's time to exit, I seem to missing this. I have just proven this to myself again, although I did get out of something recently without any hurt, should have been a lot sooner though.

Ending the dance

#14 Jan 20 - 5PM (Reply to #21)

4joys4

anotherpath

Give yourself a pat on the back for making progress :)

#15 Jan 20 - 4PM (Reply to #11)

cynthia (not verified)

4joys4

That post Barbara put up today about how can we say we love him was really helpful to me. What was that under? What title?

#16 Jan 20 - 4PM (Reply to #19)

Barbara (not verified)

over here cynthia

http://www.lisaescott.com/2010/01/19/can-you-love-narcissist ~~~~~~~~~ The truth will set you free... but first it will piss you off - Gloria Steinem Visit My Abuse Website

#17 Jan 20 - 4PM (Reply to #12)

4joys4

cynthia

Sorry. "Can you love the Narcissist?"

#18 Jan 20 - 5PM (Reply to #13)

cynthia (not verified)

Can you love the Narcissist?"

No I cant love who that person was when he revealed his true nature, (I read the article Barbara helped me locate) That person hurt me beyond what I ever imagined, I loved what I so desperately wanted him to be. Its strange though how he is living with someone else seemingly being that person I thought he was, maybe that is a struggle for all of us with the GF or whoever they are with that we think they are being every thing we thought they were with someone else, and yet that is impossible, thats like saying they only chose us to be pathological with. You cant turn off their pathology like a switch and if they do its all an act. I look at it from another angle too, he never cared if he lost me but he does care a great deal if he looses his live in GF, he puts more effort in their relationship by doing what he has to in order to secure his convenient steady live in supply, and I know because I think normally I equate it with love; she means more to him so he chooses to establish a life with her and gives her reasons to stay with him, maybe she has better qualities than myself that he admires, even narcs have personal likes and dislikes, oh woe is me I wasnt good enough supply for a sociopath, ha ha and she is, how sick does that sound!!!! I just wish I could understand why he presents to her everything I thought he once was and threw me away like a piece of shit, he works harder at maintaining that image for her, guards it, protects it, and definately doesnt want to lose it, and that is obvious she sold her home last year and moved in with him lock stock and barrel. Isnt that funny he always told me their relationship was not really going anywhere, guess the relationship must have taken a turn for the better, what a joke huh and the joke was on me in the end.

#19 Jan 24 - 6PM (Reply to #18)

TexN (not verified)

cyn

I guarantee you, she will be looking for a website just like this within a year or two! Not sure who, but someone else on here sold their house as well to be with the narc, only to lose all their money they had invested in a house together and the narc kicking her out! Just a matter of time...

#20 Jan 20 - 6PM (Reply to #14)

no more

Don't ever feel that way

I too felt this way about him going back with his EX. But when I went back with him I too was an EX and I went back for my own reasons just like her now. AND GOD only knows what those reasons are. Everyone is different in their tolerance for Ns and you don't know what is going on in their relationship. It is actually no different than with you. What I am trying to say is when I went back it was all goood for a while and then the N behavior started again. So don't EVER feel that she is getting better than you because it will all come crashing down on her again too. Ns never change permenantally. Feel SORRY for her not ENVIOUS.

#21 Jan 20 - 6PM (Reply to #15)

cynthia (not verified)

sd0355

Feel SORRY for her not ENVIOUS. And I do, I feel very sorry for her as she is cooking him dinner he is F---ing someone at a nearby hotel for a quickie, then he walks in the door "Hey baby, sure smells good what are ya cooking?" Then tells her he worked up quite an appetite at work today. He can walk in his home and think nothing of his infidelities and with mine there were lots and lots and lots. She is being taken for a ride just as I was, hers is ongoing I chose to end the hell and when I look back at them a year from now he will be doing the same exact thing to her while he pretends she is the love of his life, meanwhile for now she is destined to be with a psychopathic sex addict who just uses her to shack up with. Somedays its just hard for me to accept people do these things to other people in this sick world, but I better believe it because I have lived it, you just have to let go of bad people sometimes maybe its that simple

#22 Jan 20 - 10PM (Reply to #16)

Barbara (not verified)

getting what we deserve

He can walk in his home and think nothing of his infidelities and with mine there were lots and lots and lots. I think about this with Psycho-Boy once in a while. His wife defends him to the death... even attacking me, a woman she's never met and he only "told her" about... yet he was off spending THOUSANDS on high-end hookers during his work lunch hours (now he's unemployed and she GLADLY pays his bills)... ...he came home and played good husband and father, had dinner with his family... then hopped on line and j/o to some porn babe while telling various vulnerable women he 'didn't love his wife, was in love with them and would be with them soon.' Not only are men cruel to women but WOMEN ARE PROGRAMMED TO TAKE IT. We are FORCE FED a LIE since childhood about how we can ONLY BE HAPPY IF WE ARE IN A RELATIONSHIP. And SOME MAN WILL SOLVE ALL OUR PROBLEMS FOR US. In fact, we are SOOOOO programmed and desperate to be MARRIED or a COUPLE that we will put up with most disrespectful, heinous treatment to be WITH SOMEONE. We even let our children watch us be mistreated by some idiot so they learn the same thing (thinking 'every child NEEDS their father - heck WHAT kind of father is that??)... then we plunk them down in front of some Disney nonsense and reinforce this cycle. We sit around in learned helplessness hoping some Prince Charming will come along and rescue poor little us, refusing to see that by being helpless we are simply fresh meat for predators. Or we complain to our mothers or other women and they refuse to believe us, refuse to 'get it' or say "well, honey, men are just like that and we women just have to put up with it." DV cases of marital rape and teenage dating abuse are rising at HORRENDOUS rates... and that's just the people who report it! Why is that? Because we PUT UP WITH IT and/or DON'T REPORT IT. We are own worst enemies. It's not just bad men. Women continue to believe in nonsense like "hope" rather than waking up and learning that evil exists and learning what pathology is. They cling to nonsense that "love conquers all" when love can not conquer a disordered soulless non-human. They clutch with a death grip the baloney that there's "some good in everyone" when some people are just plain bad, evil and not worth the effort. And because of all this magical thinking - when a pathological finally shows them WHAT HE TRULY IS - they hang in there 'just a little longer' because they "BELIEVE IN LOVE" even when they are being drained dry by evil. And we avoid dealing with reality, some avoid getting the therapy they NEED TO SURVIVE or just decide to not listen when someone speaks to truth to them because it's not what they want to hear. We want to be loved so bad we are willing to put up with a cheap imitation rather than what we deserve - THE REAL DEAL. ~~~~~~~~~ The truth will set you free... but first it will piss you off - Gloria Steinem Visit My Abuse Website

#23 Jan 22 - 11AM (Reply to #17)

ForeverLearning

Excellent Comment Barbara

Barbara, I thank God that you don't sugarcoat anything around here. Thank God for you! And shame on Disney for their part in f*cking up the lives of so many women with their spewing the perfect fairytale storybook mentality that ruins the lives of too many females in our society. It is unrealistic brainwashing that one must be in a relationship to be whole and happy. Simply not true. Many times, exactly the opposite is true.

#24 Jan 20 - 4PM

Carolyn

The cruelty that women for

The cruelty that women for centuries have gotten from men is slowly coming into a more public consciousness. When enough women shutdown there is going to have to be a shift on male/female relationships. The fact that 52% of marriages end in divorce and that families suffer from the bad relationships between mother and father is enough motivation to study male pathology. Males commit 89% of crime and 97% of sexual crimes. It isn't just the narcissists who are problematic. the African-American women are taking a stand on hiphop lyrics that trash women. maybe all women need to take a look at what type of men are good fathers and husbands. One woman on this site felt badly when her gut instinct told her something was false about her fiancee, hired an investigator only to find out he was still married. She felt guilty she wanted to 'check him out'. A woman with the same investigation story was on Dr. Phil last week and she was still 'with' the man she found out was still married. What kind of society would we live in if respect in relationships was common not the other way around? So many women on this site are ambassadors for exactly that: No Contact, no on-line dating sites, no bar hook-ups, and be safe not sorry strategies for dating. All of you on this site are really a 'new day dawning' and an idea whose time has come. Many women didn't have any way to figure out who their partner was going to change into in the Jeckyll and Hyde prince into abuser change. Once they did they left. You aren't victims you are survivors with an important story to tell and important lessons to teach.

#25 Jan 20 - 9PM (Reply to #9)

Barbara (not verified)

the word "victim"

there is nothing wrong with being a VICTIM. We need to reclaim the word. Survivor yes but still a VICTIM. I didn't victimize myself - someone else did. And we need to keep talking about it. Nothing wrong with being a victim unless you decide to park there and do nothing about it. http://www.narcissisticabuse.com/victim.html I am a victim. I was victimized numerous times in my life by pathologicals. I will never meet anyone 'right for me' in the future, and I am fine with that. I am here to pay it forward... ~~~~~~~~~ The truth will set you free... but first it will piss you off - Gloria Steinem Visit My Abuse Website

#26 Jan 20 - 7PM (Reply to #8)

Ellen

Carolyn

Carolyn. That is very well put.... 'So many women on this site are ambassadors' 'You aren't victims you are survivors with an important story to tell and important lessons to teach'. I think sometimes us women on here don't stop to think about the fact that what we all know if not now then in time (cos we are educating and growing) is making a change to society.....internationally. We are changing cultural beliefs. We are a strong movement and ambassadors. This is what i meant when i put my post about thinking we are lucky. We are seeing the light whereas others haven't had the awful experience that led us to this knowledge. There is no mediocre lives for any of us now cos we all strive for the best that we can get. How many women are just settling and complaining out there. They may not have the drastic experiences that we have had but they also will not have the ecstatic feelings of personal achievement and growth. They also may put up with crap from men and not even notice. I say hooray for the ambassadors!

#27 Jan 20 - 3PM

quietude (not verified)

cynthia

Well, I wish I could give you good advice here, but all I can offer up is, you are not alone. I feel very similar. As a matter of fact, as much as I love men, the only pull I have toward them now is the primitive one...I don't have to spell it out! But the thought of dating again totally turns me off. This is unchartered territory for me, for most of my life I've been in some type of relationship. So here I am, hoping that I'll eventually relax a bit, start trusting again, and be well-armed enough with all the knowledged gained over the last (almost) year on spotting the red flags, keep my fingers crossed and hope for the best. All I know is, I can't afford to risk having another relationship with a bad guy. If that means being alone, I'll have to accept that...and there are worse things. It's hard for me, I'm a hopeful romantic...I know, I rate high on the fantasy and empathy charts...N's LOVE me. LOL

#28 Jan 20 - 9PM (Reply to #2)

TexN (not verified)

Cynthia & Quietude

I know these men leave a nasty taste in our mouths but have faith & believe that there is someone out there for you. I had a nice gentleman before I met the narc. I just didn't know how to appreciate him and I took him for granted. There are good men out there. I would say to still be cautious but don't make every man you meet suffer cos of what the narc did to you. Some women out there are just as evil as these men we've encountered and have hurt good honest men. We are all armed with alot of information and know not to ignore the red flags but life is too short to continue to let the narcs ruined our lives by being gun shy to other men. There is nothing wrong with being by yourself either but if the right gentlemen comes across, at least give him a chance (with your guards up without his knowledge)...

#29 Jan 20 - 10PM (Reply to #6)

no more

there are a lot of singles

There are a lot of single people out there and they are all single for a reason. The more I read on this site the more I understand why they just wish to remain single. Who wants to live with betrayal, lying and deceipt for the rest of their lives? At least living on my own I have peace and quietness. I have lived on my own and supported myself and my son for the last 25 years. My son is grown [27] and living on his own now. I had a couple of N relationships over the years. The last one did me in on men. I am thru with them. The last one wanted me for my stability financially and emotionally and he made me quite aware of this. As if I have worked hard to get where I am to just give it all away. I have lots of good female friends and the more time I spend with them the more I realize that the relations I have built with them are the most important to me. I VALUE them. These relationships are built on honesty, trust, respect and integrity. They are comfortable and EASY. We do not have this with our Ns. Ns DONOT know how to have this kind of relationship. I guess I am saying that I will stick with what I know for sure. At least I am in a safeplace with my GFs.

#30 Jan 20 - 10PM (Reply to #3)

quietude (not verified)

TexN

Thanks for the encouraging words, they are appreciated. I just look at the statistics, and just this board for example...99% of us are women. You can draw a conclusion from that as, there are a lot of shi**y guys out there. And that goes for abuse statistics...men are typically the perps. And to be fair, I realize there are female narcs too...my mom's one, so I've seen first hand. I used to be fun, relaxed, and have a live and let live kind of attitude. Now I'm suspicious and jaded when it comes to the 'relationship' topic. If the right gentleman did come along, he'd have to be very patient. The relationship would develop slower than molasses, and they'd have to be OK with making no commitment. That's how I feel now, there is no way I trust someone enough to 'hand my life over' to them again. Sorry to be such an Eeyore!

#31 Jan 20 - 10PM (Reply to #4)

TexN (not verified)

quietude

I agree. Definitely, no need to rush into a relationship. Now I view all men as a possible narcissist. I have to admit though, not that I'm interviewing cos I am back with my husband, but I look around my office and I really don't see a "possible narc". I am not as naive as I used to be...just wished I had wised up 7 yrs ago. I still have bad days sometimes. Here I have the most wonderful man, good father and husband, but that damn jerk still comes to my mind every day. Like everyone else here, I miss the man I thought he was. I miss the life I thought we were going to have. I don't think I can ever love someone as much as I did him and yet...it still wasn't enough. He always said "no one will ever love ME like my nanny (grandmother)". I was trying to explain to him one time, "I love you as much as your nanny did" (She had passed away sometime back). He couldn't understand the point I was trying to make. He just couldn't comprehend what I was trying to get across. His recent ex gf said that he laughed about that comment I made. He just couldn't get it. A normal person would understand what that meant. I obviously was trying to tell him "I love you THAT MUCH". That comment should have made him realize what I was trying to get across. He told her, "She didn't even know my Nanny!"...What are yall's thoughts on his comment???

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