Knowing a Narc is a Narc...

Sometimes, confussion sets in and you think "No, he isn't a true N cuz he doesn't do this or that". You seem to sway for a few weeks. Yes he is! No he isn't! Its exhausting. Truth is, you wouldn't be doing all this reasearch for nothing? Then dig deeper. Yes, its not that you were blind, you were in love with nobody, an image? Bummer, your heartbroken, and mentally sick of him. I'm not sure but I think I fell out of love with him? I'm trying to look at it this way, "he died!" My husband was diagnosed with an illness that only 10 % of them survive to become normal and that's only with behaiour modification with therapy and if they stop therapy, the Narc in the will come out of remittion. That's like finding out he has cancer and only 6 months to live. The person you fell in love with is dying or maybe dead? I hope you don't think I am being harsh. I am trying to help. Trust, then verify~

I'm three years out, not very long in the great scheme of things, but I've had time to think a lot :P Some questions are much more relevant than others. Whether or not your ex is a Narc or not is, in the end, not that important of a question. If you were to take him in for a battery of tests, and the psychiatrist said Yes, he is a classic Narc . . . then what? Would you feel vindicated, and right in your decision? More right than you already feel? What if the opposite happened and the doc said he's NOT a narc. Would you take him back? Give him another chance? HELL NO. You already KNOW enough, right now, to have made the decison you made. Whether or not he's a narc is irrelevant, he was impossible to live with, he made your life pure hell and damaged your heart and soul. The other real questions are . . . will YOU be courageous enough to go on and have good relationships? How will you grow and heal in this direction? Any personality can fall for a narcissist :( . I think some folks are more vulnerable than others. My father was one, that made me gloss over and see a lot of narc behaviors as "normal". I was a sitting duck in that regard. Whatever the reason for falling for a narc, once you have the experience you have, you are no longer as vulnerable as you were. You have experience. You can grow and heal and learn to trust yourSELF to see what's coming down the road at you :) That takes time and work, but is possible for anyone, no matter how weak you believe you are :) I don't think very many of us have diagnosed NPDs on this board. The only membership requirement I've seen is that you believe your partner is NPD. Or seems a lot like one. If you resonate with the stories, you belong here :) It's as simple as that :)

Everyone else is right, it's the lack of empathy and the "I NEED" they do without any indebted to anyone.. Take , take, take... Lie after lie is also very much like word vomit to them and it is natural. To lie is NOTHING to them, it's a way of talking. If your in a funky stage, go to the my story section and read what I posted last night about my stage, it may help. XO Trust, then verify~

Everyone else is right, it's the lack of empathy and the "I NEED" they do without any indebted to anyone.. Take , take, take... Lie after lie is also very much like word vomit to them and it is natural. To lie is NOTHING to them, it's a way of talking. If your in a funky stage, go to the my story section and read what I posted last night about my stage, it may help. XO Trust, then verify~

it simple. Yes, we all have to have a BIT of narcissim, so we have self confidence, and make it through the bad times. The difference between that and true narcissim is people who are the former have EMPATHY and don't go out of their way to hurt another person. The NARC, at least in my case and im sure in the cases of most of the others here, convinced me he was sincere - even admitted he hadn't been an angel in the past - and led me on for a YEAR before starting to show his true colors. That, my friend, is malice aforethought, or however the legal system pronounces that legal mumbo jumbo term for someone who on some level KNOWS he has an agenda. I too have yo yo'd (until recently) about if mine was truly a narc or just a hurt little boy who needed understanding. Well, today after talking with some more friends more my old town, I found out more about the depth of his depravity, and it was chilling - yet rang true. So, my advice is Don't beat yourself up about it, like one of the other replies said, he treated you cruelly without any thought as to the damage it might do to you. Bless you sister, You will get through this!

Sorry i posted twice, same thing, took one down....stupid computer....:)

What's the difference if he is a narc or another type of personality disorder or just a freak who loves when you're in pain. You never know.You never will. But the thing is he hurt you like no one else in the world, he abused you, he treated you ike a piece of trash and never was there for you.Were you so happy with him. Is that what you want from being with another person. Is that the man who deserves you giving him all of ypu and all your life. I know now you just can't see it. It's too soon and you're still in the middle of all this mess. To see the things you have to leave the mess behind and ruuuuuuuuuun as fast and as long as you can because only from the distance you can see how it is. I know what you're doing now. I've been doing that for a year. You know why? Because I wanted a little light in the tunnel, this little tiny hope that he is not a narc and if he is not maybe if we try one more time, if he comes back one day, he will understand and we'll be living happily ever after.Yuuuppppi!I've got something to live for, to wait for, to stick to.And that was also the reason why I prefered to blame myself and when he blamed me, you know, I didn't protest so much. Because I knew that if it was me to blame, if it was my fault I could do something, I could change it, I could fight for it, I had the influence on my relationship with him. If it was his fault, his problem, his mistakes, I had nothing to do because the only person I'm responsible for is me. I could do everything to fight for this love. EVERYTHING. Go around the world, quit my job, leave my family, climb Mount Everest.What he did to fight. He was sending messages. Nothing more. And even so I believed he cared. I was the lonely fighter, I loved for both of us but this isn't enough even when you love with all your heart. Is he a narc? He is egoistic, selfish, abusive, he doesn't respect you, he doesn't even like you so the rest doesn't matter. You can sllep peacefully because you should be happy to have him out of your life cause no matter if he is narc or not after all he did to you in not so long period of time, in a few years he will destroy you completely and you DON'T DESERVE IT cause you deserve a beautiful life. I wanted to label him as a Narc also for one another reason, because I wanted to know that he'll never change, that he'll not change for another woman. This would mean I hadn't got something, I was not good enough and how horrible this would be: she'll receive all I wanted after all I went through? But the truth is that you saw how he really is.You know it. And people don't change like this. They don't wake up in the morning and think: today I'll change my life completely. No, it's a hard work and if he wanted to change he would change with you, not for you but with you.You know that every change is difficult. Even if you just want to change the diet, the way you look is terribly difficult and imagine now that you have to change all your character, all your behaviour.Easy? Oh, no! I repeat one more time: he is an abusive, egoistic, selfish man, who loves only himself so how difficult must it be for him to change. You're still looking for the reason of all of this in yourself. You think that it's you who made him behave like. That with another girl he'll be different. You're not so powerful to make him act like this. He had been this man before he met you. He'll not change. the only thing is that he can meet a girl who'll stand this abuse for a longer time, who'll not care but this shouldn't bother you. You've got your beautiful life to live. Hugs, A.

It is only natural to want answers and clarification, reassurance. And I think understanding narcissism will clarify a lot if indeed your partner is a narcissist. First let me say I am no expert. What I write here is my attempt to piece things together after my own breakup, 5 weeks ago. I was with my n for 9+ years and never knew what narcissism really was until I started researching all this in the last 4 weeks. I love this board but of course you should also find other complementary sources of information and support. To try to answer some of your questions: 1) Yes, everyone has a certain level of narcissism. There are healthy age-appropriate levels and then there are unhealthy or destructive age-inappropriate levels. And Narcissism in adults really exists on a continuum. It can be subtle, mild, toxic, pathological or anything in-between. (This is where I get stuck, because I know my ex is a narcissist but I don’t know where he truly falls in the continuum.) Mental Health Professionals use the following list to diagnose the individual. They need to have 5 or more of the following traits… 1. An exaggerated or grandiose sense of self-importance that isn’t supported by reality 2. A preoccupation with fantasies of extraordinary success, wealth, power, beauty, and love 3. A belief that he/she is special and unique and can only be understood by other special people. 4. An intense need for admiration 5. A sense of entitlement 6. A tendency to exploit others without guilt or remorse. 7. An absence of meaningful empathy 8. A tendency to be envious or to assume that he/she is the object of others’ envy 9. An arrogant attitude. Also, I really think an individual’s narcissism changes as their life changes. It is always there but the symptoms change and different traits may be more pronounced than others depending on the situation or times. 2) A narcissist never feels whole. They have to use fantasies to create another self, a false self to protect themselves (usually from childhood injuries). Instead of acknowledging and working on their underlying emotional issues, they focus instead on their false-self, their fantasies, their armor. They are SO GUARDED they never really get to work on their real problems and this is why they are so unlikely to change and every really be happy. If you do continue to research this more you will find a lot of evidence to support the idea that NARCISSISTS RARELY CHANGE. And there are plenty of stories about people who held out hope and tried to stay and make it work or kept coming back over and over only to see that it never works. I had my heart crushed 3 times by my n. And even though he is the one who first said “I think I might be a narcissist” … my hopes have been completely crushed in the last 5 weeks. I thought my n was going to be one of the lucky ones who could look at himself in the mirror and get help… but I was painfully wrong! I think our hope that they can change or our hope that they really aren’t that narcissistic makes this a hard truth to swallow. (Like I said even if you know it’s over… I have several friends and family members lined up who are going to shoot me if I ever get back together with him… but honestly I know deep down some sliver of my being, the part that will never stop loving him is still holding onto what is most likely a very unrealistic fantasy that he will change and not throw away everything we had for 9+ years.) As for narcissistic supply. I know … I know how hard this one is. And maybe I am still at least a little in denial? But here is what I know and will admit. I know my ex used me for narcissistic supply. There is no doubt in my mind and I can be honest with myself about that because it is pretty clear when and how I was used. However, I too question whether or not this is all narcissists can think about or do… use vs. love. I think that since narcissism is on a continuum then it would make sense to assume that the further down the scale they are (closer to mild or healthy) the more capability they have for love. So If I can realistically place my ex at the healthier side and know that it would be incredibly difficult for him to be with me for 9 years and have the happy moments we had without loving me… I think (and tell me if im crazy) that I can reasonably assume that I was not ONLY Narcissistic Supply but that there was also love, even if it was less than I deserved. 3) (There is quite a bit written on this topic… but I think you have to be careful what you read/buy into.) But know they obviously end up with very caring, giving people who usually are willing to give too much. If they didn’t that’s when it ends. With a narcissist, who never puts in his/her fair share, it would never work any other way. I think for me I needed to know that my ex is an N because otherwise I would expect him to act and grow like a normal adult. I would expect him to change. And until I squashed that hope I could have probably never squashed the hope of us getting back together. One thing is for sure, a true narcissist is very different from a normal healthy adult and in order to protect yourself you need to know what happened and what could happen should you continue to try and interact with them. (be it in a romantic relationship, friendship, uncomfortable break-up related communications, etc.) This phase is all about educating yourself and although you are really unlikely to get an actual diagnoses, if you do your research and you know your partner well enough you will be able to piece things together and know for yourself if he is a narcissist or not.

the main thing i think is the lack of empathy... if they have that, they probably have a cluster B personality issue. empathy is what makes us human. wanting to be the center of attention, being selfish, stuff like that doesn't an NPD make. look for the lack of empathy. thats my oppinion, as a lowly psych major :)

what diffrence does it make wether you can label him as a narc or not a narc, the fact that you are here with a lot of other hurt people ,should tell you all you need to know,then is without a doubt a narc, but sometimes with exh i think is he, then i think i dont give a flying fig if he was is or maybe, he was abusive enough to me that i eventually divorced him, if i have to question my self about any relationship i am in male or female, then i shouldnt be in it,this board help me see not only exh and n for what they are but a woman friend as well, cos my thinking seemed to be about abusive men, i thought, until i relized yes abusive woman were out there as well, my mother was one, so it came as a shock to relize the woman friend was this as well cos she had convinced me[ YOU TAKE EVERYTHING PERSONAL}she used to say, well she said things that were personal all the time, so i let things ride, until i didnt and dropped her but my point is who cares what they were as long as they are out of our lives, if ff phoned me to day to build bridges i would still tell her to sod off, the same with n, well he has tried, i said its over that was 11months ago. so to even want to understand him sarah, you obviously still care, he will bring you nothing b/c he is nothing. i couldnt care less if these 3 came to me and said i am in intensive therapy can we at least be friends, i would rather eat nails. who cares what they are!!!a last point b/c i feel so passionate about these poisonious people, i am known for beign genorous and kindhearted, well if any of these 3 came and said i am ill, penniless, destitute, i would say TOUGH!

I know exactly what you are saying. I too struggled with coming to terms with it. My ex did not exhibit all of the qualities of what I see others describing, but the Narcissistic qualities that he does have, are in full force. So I studied and read, and read and read everything I could. Not to slap a label on him to help me heal with something to point to, but rather to really UNDERSTAND. I would get the demeaning comments all the time, the silent treatment when he was upset with me. The constant need to please him. The silent emotional war raging inside of me that I could not understand. This forum is not so we can "diagnose" but rather share our experiences, and understand and try to piece together what we were/are feeling in and out of these toxic relationships. Once you get the understanding, it does not make it easier, but rather it makes the situation clearer. "Be who you are, and say what you feel; for those who mind don't matter, and those that matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Sarah. Stop diagnosing him. It doesn't help YOU, and it doesn't matter. I don't honestly know if my ex was a narc or not. What I DO know is that he didn't treat me well, we weren't right for each other, and I didn't like who I became when I was with him. I very honestly don't care if he's ever happy again with anyone else. I couldn't care less about his life in general. If he's happy, great, good for him. What concerns me is what makes ME happy. And what makes me happy isn't dependent on knowing if he was a narc or not. When I distanced myself enough, I was able to look at my issues as objectively as possible. I'm working on the things I truly want to work on to be a better person, not the things I felt I did "wrong" in the relationship. By the way, you need to get a new psychologist. Everyone has some degree of narcissism. But there's healthy narcissism and unhealthy narcissism. For example, I think I am AWESOME. I KICK ASS. However, I don't think I'm better than anyone else, and I spend a lot of time trying to help others now, moreso than I ever did before in my life. Every time you start to think about him, maybe you should start thinking about yourself instead. About what you want in life. We have such a short time, really, and you never know what day may be your last. Carpe diem, baby!