Hooklineandsinker Story

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#1 Sep 13 - 4PM
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Hooklineandsinker Story

Hi all

I am sorry this is so ridiculously long but I'm genuinely confused. I'm wondering whether the man that I am still in love with, that broke my heart last March by dumping me, and then started seeing this other girl that he'd met at a wedding when we were still together, is a narc. I don't want to waste anyone's time on here because frankly what some of you have gone through is clearly absolutely horrifying hell, and I take my hat off to all of you for surviving those experiences, and I don't want to waste your time on here if in fact my ex was not an narc because although I am heartbroken and traumatised by his rejection, my experiences were not nearly as bad as some of yours. But I would really value people's opinion as to what has happened to me this year. I am absolutely drowning in cognitive dissonance - it feels as if I have wandered out of my own life (which was so unbelievably lovely this time last year when I started seeing him) into someone else's nightmare.

First a bit of background: I met him online. Ten years younger than me (although we look the same age - his age!) INCREDIBLY handsome and attractive, well-educated, upper class, professional, totally on my intellectual wavelength, a high achiever, well-dressed, tall, and a complete and utter gentleman (would help me on with my coat and then lift my hair out from the collar for me - that just melted me, would always open doors for me, pull out my chair in restaurants, carry any extra bags I had, etc......) After years of meeting nothing but assclowns, I finally felt like my dreams were coming true. I'm in a high-end profession myself so I felt we were so compatible on edcuational levels, professional background, and intellectual rapport, apart altogether from the INTENSE physical attraction I felt for him. And at the risk of sounding like a narc myself, I am considered very attractive, good company, loyal, confident and funny etc etc, so it wasn't like I had a huge inferiority complex around him or anything, or acted clingy or needy - I don't do that, either with men or anyone else. I have a very strong sense of self (or at least I did until he got through with me. Now I'm not even sure who I am or how to behave around men any more). I spent our first date with a huge smile spread across my face listening to him talk. He behaved like a committed boyfriend from DAY 1 (and you know how lots of guys can be assclowns and start flaking out on you pretty early. Not him. He was 100% in the relationship right from the start. Always the first one to call or text. Always reliable, punctal, thoughtful). Within 4 weeks of meeting me, he was flying me to Country X to meet his mother - we stayed at her house for the weekend. Within 6 weeks, he took a transatlantic flight to join me in California on a vacation I had arranged before I met him. We spent the most wonderful week touring the Napa valley (that's another thing I loved about him - his vast knowledge of wine, among so many other subjects). We spent another weekend at his mother's in Oct 2009, three months after we started dating. During that time he told me his sister, who was then living with his mother, had asked him was he going to marry me and he told me that his answer to her was "I definitely would not rule it out". When I heard this I nearly exploded with joy. I am 42 years old and have wanted to be married to the right man for so, so long. I have never been married. I just smiled lovingly at him and and hugged him and said "oh, sweetie!", but inside I was absolutely dancing with joy. At his work Christmas party he texted me that his work colleagues were asking did we have babies and he told them that our babies would be lawyers like their mum (ie, me). Again, I thanked my lucky stars, God, the Universe and everything that this wonderful dream man had come into my life, a man who felt the same way I felt and who wanted the same things I did, ie to marry and start our own family! It doesn't get any better than that and I could not believe my luck and was walking on air. We were together 8 months and I know to some of you that must seem very short, but the intensity of feeling meant that it felt like much longer.

However by February 2010, there were days when I sensed him starting to pull away and to emit a subtle hostility towards me. We had sex on Valentine's day (and my apologies for the explicit description, but it may be relevant in trying to figure out if I've been narc'ed, he gave me a massage and then gave me oral sex, but did not have intercourse with me). That was the last time he ever touched me sexually - five weeks from Valentine's day he broke up with me. I have NEVER come across a man who could sleep beside his pretty and loving girlfriend for nights on end over a five week period and never, ever initiate sex. During this five week drought I did not try to initiate either (not even to give him a BJ - he was obsessed with BJs too) as I was terrified of being rejected and I did not want to put any pressure on him in any way. I was afraid he was ignoring me sexually because he didn't want me to get pregnant and I didn't want to hear that from him, as I really wanted to have a baby with him. We never used contraception. This was despite a conversation over dinner at New Year where I told him explicitly that I wanted a baby (although he knew that anyway, and in fact one of the reasons I liked his online profile is that he had specified that he wanted kids. Plus I felt safe bringing up the topic because of his text at Christmas that our babies would be lawyers like me) and he said "we'll see what happens during the year".

So I didn't even bring up the subject of how our sex life had disappeared. However as this period wore on I began to feel less and less desireable, attractive and feminine, and it killed me. Every morning we were together he would spoon me for a while, but it never led to sexual intimacy.

Going back to Christmas - once again I was invited to stay at his mum's with himself, his sister and her husband. My ex and his sister cannot be in the same room together as there is so much hostility between them and sure enough, a fight broke out at the dinner table and she stormed out of the room. My ex and I, at my suggestion, took some whiskey and a cigar outside and sat and talked about what had just happened. Naturally I expressed my views and feelings on the subject, for which I was later to be punished. The reason I told him that I couldn't believe she had done that in front of a guest (me) was to open the topic and create space for him to talk about how it had affected him, because I thought maybe he was too embarrased by her show of temper to talk about it (I mean, anyone would be embarrassed by a family member behaving like that in front of a guest, no?) Anyway he started to talk about it and did not stop for about a week. He would later tell me that he had to "put up with a 15 minute rant from YOU about it, while I was dying inside". He gave absolutely no indication of "dying inside" on the night in question - just a lot of hatred and contempt against his sister. All I really said was "wow, I can't believe she did that in front of a guest". He then took the topic and ran with it. In no conceivable way did I rant for 15 minutes. Have you ever tried to just TALK fo 15 minutes straight? It's nearly impossible (unless you are teaching a class or something), never mind RANTING for 15 minutes straight!

At the end of Feb we went on a ski weekend, which turned out to be a complete disaster. On the first day, we were trying to make our way down an unpisted, lumpy, rocky, grassy, steep slope, which was absolutely terrifying. I lost a ski and it slid away. He began to talk to me as if I was some sort of mental incompetent - really patronising and nasty and sort of "god, how did I get stuck with someone as stupid as you" type tone. He found my ski and I put it back on but the going was so bad that I ended up taking off both skis and just sliding down the mountain on my ass. I can't tell you how terrified and upset I was. However he just took off down the slope and left me there. It took me a good 20 minutes to get myself down, and I found him standing chatting with two other guys and he never even asked was I ok. On the second night we went out to dinner and we were kind of talking about babies. Because I had felt him pulling away from me in the weeks leading up to this (most noticeably the lack of sex) I had asked a friend what to do. She suggested that I say to him that he was absolutely right, it was too early for us to talk about having a baby, and we should take our time about it (even though I am 42 and sometimes wake up with acute anxiety that it hasn't happened for me yet). She suggested this to try and make him relax about the issue so he wouldn't feel pressure (although he was the one who first brought up having kids - he talked about them a LOT and we would joke about it but he knew I really did want a baby) Anyway in this restaurant I said what she had advised me to say, and he said really dismissively and coldly "yeah, I'm not having a baby with someone I've known for 6 months". Now, while objectively that is a reasonable position to take, it hurt me to my very core not just because of his dismissive tone but because this was a man who for MONTHS had been telling me and texting me things like "you're so beautiful. Where have you been all my life?" "You make me want to be a better man" "I so totally adore you" "You are just beautiful in every way" "I feel like I want to share everything with you" "Take whatever you want of me" "We have our whole lives to do X, Y or Z". He would text me every single morning with kisses and every single night to say goodnight with kisses. He had told his sister he was thinking of marrying me. He told me things about his life on our first few dates that he had never told anyone else. And now suddenly I'm just some girl he's "known" for 6 months? I was very hurt and felt very downgraded all of a sudden and snapped at him "I would have thought I was more than just someone you've known for 6 months". He kind of backed down and said that of course I was, but things were extremely tense between us for the rest of that evening and all the next day, and I was to be punished for snapping at him (the only cross word I ever said to him in 8 months) when he was breaking up with me a couple of weeks later.

A couple of weeks later we attended my best friend's wedding. There was a girl there who was practically drooling over my ex. Every time I went to find him, there she was, gazing up at him like a starstruck groupie. He is extremely good looking. His body language while he was talking to her was very open but he swears that nothing happened between them (although I don't know, because I did take a nap at the wedding because we were staying in the same hotel, something else he got pissed off at me for doing - I asked him would he be ok on his own for a while as I was exhausted and needed to lie down for a while and he said "I'm always ok" (see below), anyway there were people at the wedding (my friends) that he had met before and liked and got on with so he wouldn't have been drifting around on his own, which I knew, or else I would not have left him on his own - he could have come up to our bedroom with me and had a lie down and a cuddle, or even, perish the thought, some actual sex - he could have come up and had a refreshing nap himself along with me - he could have asked me to come have a drink with him first - he could have asked me not to go for a nap in the first place, but he did none of these things and instead punished me a couple of weeks later by breaking up with me). I didn't give this matter of seeing them talking together a lot at the wedding a second thought however as I am not the jealous type and from past experience when someone is with me it is because they love ME and want to be with ME and no one else. I have NEVER in my life been given cause by a boyfriend to feel jealous. To my knowledge I have never been cheated on. However a couple of months after he broke up with me (or so they both insist) he started seeing her. She's the most boring dweeb I ever met, she's not even pretty, she has nasty hair and a hook nose and thin lips and chunky calves. I am so much prettier than her. I have NEVER heard her say one interesting or funny thing in her life. All she does is sit on a couch kind of hunched up and silent, like some sort of ghost. WTF?

I am so bewildered as to what he's doing with her. Do narcs get bored with NS from a specific person and need to conquer someone else? Or are they more likely to stick around when the other person is a complete dweeb? I read that even if you do act totally submissive and codependent and caretaking around them, they will eventually despise you anyway. So you're damned if you do (have a strong confident personality like mine, because they will envy you this and punish you and start to try and break you down) and you're damned if you don't (have ANY personality, like her, because they will despise you for being so submissive) - they will leave you either way? I want her heart broken the way mine is. I want her to suffer too. I HATE her for having the nerve to think she could openly flirt with MY boyfriend in front of me at a public event, not to mention her arrogance.

The week after the wedding he became completely distant. No more kisses in his texts - it was like I was suddenly a business acquaintance instead of the beloved girlfriend he had made me believe I was for the past 8 months. Finally he broke up with me three days after my birthday. He took me to dinner in a lovely restaurant on my birthday (and apologised that it was not the more expensive restaurant next door, to which I of course said not at all sweetie, this is lovely too) but I could hardly swallow the food because I felt so sick with nerves because I knew what was coming. I actually had to go to the bathroom with some diahorrea in the middle of dinner due to feeling so sick with foreboding. But I still had to sit there and pretend everything was fine. We spent the night at my house and needless to say, no sex or even cuddling.

I am utterly heartbroken and cannot stop wanting him and missing him. We texted intermittently since March (he was sending me hugs and kisses at the end of May). When I heard about him with her back in July, I threw up for 24 hours. I couldn't even keep water down. The extent of the trauma and rejection, firstly being dumped after this talk of marriage and babies and how I made him want to be a better man, and secondly finding out he's with such a stupid whore a matter of two months after me, after being so completely loved and wanted for at least our first six months, is so devastating, and as I said, I am having trouble reconciling the reality of my life now with what it was only a few short months ago.

Reasons he might be a narc:
- withheld sex from me for 5 weeks. I have read that they do this to punish you. When I later asked him why, he said he "hadn't felt like it". I am extremely sexual when I'm with the right person so this really distressed me
- told me that when all his friends started having sex as teenagers he could never see the point of it because he found it boring. Who ever heard of a teenage male finding sex boring? Red flag?
- weirdly unmoved by sex, weirdly distant during it. The most enthusiastic thing he did was to kind of roll his eyes back in his head when he was getting a BJ. Passionless except in the very early stages and even then not particularly worked up. NEVER kissed me open-mouthed with tongues - in fact hardly kissed me at all ever on the lips. He took to just making kissy noises at me whenever I would arrive at his apartment, instead of actually kissing me. Which can be endearing and sweet and funny but you want the real thing too. When I asked him about it he said he didn't like the taste of the toothpaste I used. So I switched brands and told him I had switched, but still no kissing with tongues. Ever.
- kind of obssessed with blow jobs and would give EXTREMELY precise instructions about what exactly to do with my hands and mouth while I was giving him one.
- didn't seem to be able to come inside me - would always have to pull out and masturbate over my back, and said if I wanted him to come inside me or I wanted us to come together, I would need to blow him for a good while first (this wasn't him being mean, he was just explaining the way his body worked). I am used to men getting very excited just by being inside you and not needing loads and loads of warming up beforehand. I am used to them getting excited just by the very act of touching you and pleasing you. He didn't. No spontaneous early morning erections either, which are pretty normal for most men - again, I would have thought it was normal for a man to get aroused just by cuddling his girlfriend in bed. Such has always been my experience anyway.
- repeatedly mentioned that he had absolutely no sexual boundaries at all and would try anything
- asked me for anal sex and when I said I wasn't thrilled with the idea and had tried it before and that even though I had had an orgasm from it, in the end it was just too sore, he told me he adored me and wanted to be in every part of me, which of course made me relent and say "Oh sweetie! well then of course we can do it!" In the end we never did. I suggested it one day and he just reacted like I had asked him to do a really tedious task, kind of sighed and said, not today, it takes too long, or I'm too tired, or something.
- wanted to ejaculate on my face (I said no initally, but because he said oh, you don't know how amazing the feeling is of looking down and seeing your come on the face of the love of your life, I was relenting. I never did this, I am happy to say)
- wanted to ejacluate on my breasts (I consented, but only as an alternative to the above). This was part of a fun dressing-up/role play/fooling around thing we were doing one night which I did love - I am naturally slightly submissive sexually and now I feel so ashamed that I still want him to dominate me (not that he really did during sex - it was just more me imagining it) not cruelly or anything, but just be in charge, and I am ashamed to say that I still masturbate to thinking about him
- didn't seem all that interested in actual intercourse, which I love
- every time we had sex it would end up with me on all fours and him just hammering away at me like in porn, and even then he would have to pull out and finish himself off. There was always an excuse as to why he didn't come inside me. He was dehydrated. He was tired. He'd had too much to eat/drink. He was too stressed from work. His orgasm was "too big". How were we ever supposed to have a baby?
- told me that he periodically had fantasies about committing very violent murder or assault and because of his medical/forensic knowledge he would be able to commit murder and never be caught, and his mind would race and it would be all he could think about for days, and the only thing that would calm him down was to watch very violent horror or porn, in which it was the women that were being very violent. Red flag?
- watched a lot of porn. During our five week sex drought I got up one morning to find him at the computer cataloging his porn collection. Who gets out of bed ignoring their beautiful loving girlfriend and goes to watch porn instead? I NEVER came across such behaviour before.
- during his 20s he went to a lot of very wild sex parties, like the one in Eyes Wide Shut, S&M dungeons and places like that, where you could have sex with anyone anytime, any way. Also did a lot of cocaine in his 20s. Also told me he was borderline alcoholic in his 20s but that was because he was so miserable in his job.
- very pessimistic and critical most of the time, complained a lot, sneered about other people a lot, everyone was incompetent except him
- oddly joyless, never heard him belly-laugh, never seemed truly happy except fleetingly in the early days. I just assumed he was a bit depressed because of leaving clinical practice, or the demise of his family (he got back from his sister's birthday dinner and told me that he believed his family of origin was basically dead, as in completely non-functioning), the fight with his sister, his absent father, etc etc.
- wants to move to the countryside to "get away from people"
- HATED talking on the phone, everything had to be by text
- his reason for dumping me was "I don't feel listened to, I feel like I'm always behind you, I feel squeezed by this relationship, I've lost myself in the past few months" (see, this is what makes me feel like maybe I was the narcissistic one. Isn't that what people feel like when they are in a relationship with a narc? The only thing that's stopping me believing that I in fact was the narc and not him is that I read that if you even ask that question it means you can't be a narc, because true narcs would never even ask themselves that question. I am very interested in people's opinion on this?) Also,NEVER IN MY LIFE has anyone told me I'm a bad listener, or just out for myself, or whatever. Quite the opposite. My friends tell me a lot how great I am, how loyal and honest and fun. NEVER did I put pressure on him to do things so I have no idea where this "squeezed" thing comes from. And doesn't the "squeezed" (= I'm under too much pressure) thing contradict the whole "you don't listen to me" (= I'm ignored) thing? I mean, it's one or the other, surely? I asked him when he had started to feel like this and he said a couple of months ago. He clearly didn't value me or the relationship enough to bring this up with me as soon as he started feeling that way, and while we were still together, so we could talk about it and I could change whatever it was in my behaviour that was making him unhappy. I believe that if you truly love someone, you won't just jack in the relationship at the first hurdle but will be willing to sit down and discuss things and put them right. I asked him why he never brought this up with me AT THE TIME and he said that in a previous relationship he had always sat down with the girl and discussed the relationship but with me he felt he couldn't. Which of course hurt me deeply. It was more like "you did something that pissed me off three months ago, so SEE YA!". I was given NO CLUE as to what I was doing wrong so had no idea that I was behaving in a way he didn't like. I was just living my life and planning nice things for us to do (he is not a native of my country so I really wanted to be a home away from home for him, and to show him my country and all the beautiful and interesting things there are to do in it), and just being myself. I think it basically boiled down to he wasn't getting enough attention, although I was always hugging and kissing him and listening to him.
- very boastful about his achievements "I was the best (at his previous job)", "I'm an expert in X", "Guys like me don't grow on trees" (he said this to a friend of mine minutes after me introducing them) "I was so good at what I did". "I captained X team to success"
- has only one male friend in his own country and one in mine, and no other friends
- has a love/hate relationship with his sister. Called her something nasty to me one time. Then told me he adored her a few weeks later
- was allowed to do whatever he wanted as a child/teen
- was in boarding school and told me that for his last few years at school he just shut everyone out and spent all his time on his own, not talking or interacting with anyone else
- called his adorable 3 year old niece something quite nasty and dismissive (not to her face but to me in private)
- when I heard about this new slut I went over to his place unannounced because I was so distraught. We talked for two hours but most of the time he was glaring at me with vicious hostility and looked as if he would like to strangle me or something. That was SO hard to take in the same apartment where I used to be welcomed with open arms.
- VERY aggressive driver and believed he was the best driver around
- behaved almost like a robot in airports to suppress his rage, couldn't cope with the queueing and all the other tedious security stuff, very angry at all the procedures
- I sensed suppressed rage in him a lot of the time - not at me but in general (or maybe secretly at me?)
- always saying " I don't get angry" "I don't get lonely" "I don't get jealous" "I'm always ok" (whenever I asked if he was ok if he seemed upset)
- displayed irritation at being interrupted in the normal flow of conversation
- I felt his body stiffen with irritation once while I was hugging him goodbye after dropping him off at his place
- said "I only say things once, I hate to repeat myself" (translation: so you better pay attention when I talk - if you don't get it first time that's your problem)
- obsessed with his own privacy
- doesn't watch TV, read newspapers or listen to the radio, except one show - and I read that Ns don't engage with the outside world if they can help it?
- big fan of the writings of the Marquis de Sade, and let me tell you that if you've ever even opened one of these books you will know that they are so sickening that you will immediately become extremely depressed and won't be able to get the sick images out of your mind. I read a paragraph of one in a bookshop once and nearly threw up. I was so upset I texted him and told him how upset and shocked and sickened I was. I got a lovely text back from him saying that "in the same world as all those horrible things is a cuddly boy who loves you very much and would never let anything bad happen to you". It's this type of thing that makes me think that I'm misjudging him horribly and he's not an N at all.
- his favourite movie is about a serial killer who kills families and then arranges them around the room with bits of shattered mirror in their eyes so he can see his own reflection in them. I asked him why this was his fave movie and he said that he admired the cop who was on the trail of the serial killer, but he also expressed admiration for some of the stuff the serial killer did, so I wasn't sure which character he admired more
- one time we went to the cinema and he was being quiet and distant and didn't hold my hand or touch me at all in the cinema, and sat with his body angled away from me. Similarly in the car on the way home. We got back to his place and he assumed I was coming in to spend the night. I got upset and started crying because of his aloofness and asked him whether he geuninely wanted me to come in as he had been so distant and hadn't touched me once the whole evening and that I loved him touching me. When he saw my tears he said "Oh dear" in a really patronising, dismissive, stupid-emotional-woman-now-look-what-I-have-to-deal-with type way, or as if I was a child or something. He apologised for not touching me but it was pretty perfunctory. I was still sitting in the car when I started to cry and he got back into the passenger seat to apologise but he didn't hold me or soothe me or comfort me or kiss me.
- I had the distinct impression that I was not allowed to express anger around him about the ordinary everyday stuff people get angry or irritated about, because he totally denied himself the expression of his own anger, so therefore no one else was allowed to express the emotion either. When he said "I don't get angry" I would say, but sweetie, everyone gets angry from time to time, it's normal, everyone feels lonely, everyone gets jealous, but he never agreed.
- he told me he suffered from a phobia where he hates people touching him (there is an actual medical term for this but I forget it). I said did that include me and he said no, never me or his mum, but everyone else. One time he was in a supermarket and got so panicked about people being too near him that he had to go and stick his hands in a freezer cabinet to try and calm himself down so he could get out of there. I could never reconcile this phobia with his extremely wild and experimental sexual past. If he hated being touched by strangers so much, then why all the group sex etc when he was younger?
- I think he had the false humility thing going on too. He used to say all he wanted was to be "happily useless" and "to be left alone" and would describe himself as having been "shat into this world" (kind of a horrible thing to say about your birth)
- his dad completely ignored him as a child and it was left to his mum to practice playing catch with him in the garden or to go to his sports games to cheer him. His dad never bothered with him.
- he told me that there had been women he had ended up in bed with "literally within minutes of meeting them"
- would get extremely depressed and paranoid when hung over (more than a regular peson who just feels exhausted and ill). He called this "The Fear"

Reasons he might not be a narc:
- I saw him cry twice, once when talking about a dead uncle to whom he had been close, and once in bed in the small hours of the morning after the fight with his sister (see above). I read that narcs don't feel real emotion, so wouldn't this be evidence that he's normal? Plus he once told me "I cry every week"
- once when I was feeling a bit down and weepy and he texted to see how I was and I told him, he was so sweet and supportive to me. evidence of empathy?
- another time I was feeling a bit fat and I texted him this and he texted back "You're not fat! You're beautiful!". This doesn't sound narc-y to me.....
- he did always apologise when I called him on something (which I suppose in reality was only twice in 8 months because we never fought)
- was very generous with money - took me to the best restaurants, spent over a grand on two dinners one time. Bought me lovely shoes on a whim and a lovely matching handbag, both expensive, as a congratulations for getting a job. Posted on Facebook that he was "very proud of his girl" the day I got the job. That behaviour is loveable and normal and emotionally generous. I have read that narcs are usually very stingy with money and certainly with praise. More evidence of normality?
- once when I was upset about not having enough money coming in he came over to my place and helped me with a job search, leading to a job I eventually landed (see above), He also contacted his dad to see could his dad help with getting me some work. Again, thoughtful and helpful?
- when I had to prepare for a presentation at work he spent a few hours going over it with me and listening to me deliver it and asked me questions on it to make sure I knew it backwards, which was really sweet. He became a bit critical in the middle about something and I withdrew and sat down and wanted to take a break because I was feeling insecure and a bit weepy and nervous, but then when I got up again and began rehearsing it again and finished it he said it was fantastic, he was really supportive and sweet. Not narc-y behaviour, I would have thought?
- when I was upset about something else one time he hugged me. I read that narcs don't feel empathy but this would appear to be him feeling empathy?
- when I was upset about my car not starting (it was to be used as a wedding car the next day and I was so stressed about potentially letting down my best friend and her husband-to-be) and rang him in tears and left a voicemail he called me back and was very sweet and comforting to me (this was the week before he dumped me so it wasn't the initial charming phase, it was right at the end)
- very close to his mother
- bought his sister and her husband a nice romantic weekend in the countryside and offered to babysit their two children - again, nice and considerate
- he paid my gym membership and is continuing to do so until it runs out in Feb 2011, just so I can take my little niece to the baby pool there. This is clearly generous and decent and more proof that he's not a narc?
- see above about the violent porn: he did call these episodes of violent fantasy "a mental illness", which demonstrates self-awareness, no? And narcs are not self-aware really, are they?
- if he was a really nasty sadist he could have broken it off with me on my birthday, or the week before which is when he started to become very distant, instead of waiting, as he did, until my birthday weekend was over. This surely demonstrates consideration of my feelings?
- while we were together he was ALWAYS the one to text me first in the morning, with kisses and wishing me a good day, and also every night I got a loving text with kisses and a goodnight. He was always very attentive that way.
- said a number of times that when he's done with something, he's done with it, which would contradict the theory that narcs can't let you go because they like to keep you hanging on for future supply.
- he runs marathons to raise money for a health charity - a selfless and non-narc-y thing to do?
- he told me that on some evenings when we had a date, he would go to the driving range after work first to get out all his aggression because he didn't want to be angry or tense around me. Also considerate behaviour?
- he never "raged" on me or got abusive in ANY way, although he never told me I looked beautiful or pretty when we met for dates either.....

Or maybe he's not a narc but is something else? Just a bit damaged from being sent away to boarding school at age 7 and having his dad ignore him during his childhood? Or maybe BPD? Or passive-agressive? Or clinically depressed? Or perfectionist? I really don't want to do this beloved man a disservice by painting him as someone very nasty in the event that he is not. Does anyone have any ideas? I am so broken hearted. I cannot BELIEVE it has come to this. I cannot understand how someone can be SO in love with another person and a mere 6 months later, have this apparent total personality change and just throw the whole relationship away. I feel that him being with her so quickly after me has totally cheapened everything we had together. I see from a lot of posts on here that narcs never really leave and always come back to make sure they have you hanging on. To me that sounds SO good right now. All I want is to be back with him. I am so terrified I will never meet another man to whom I am so attracted both physically and intellectually and will always feel like I "settled". I want her heart broken the way mine is. I HATE that he's with her, but my only consolation is that she's WAY more insecure than me and so she will no doubt be miserable before too long. Her father is in prison and I did wonder whether he targeted her because he knew she would be needy. Her whole body language screams needy, clingy, insecure and lost. I also can't believe that he drives 2.5 hours to see her most weekends, whereas I live 20 minutes away. I can't believe he is prepared to go to such trouble to be with her. It makes me sick to my stomach to imagine that he might be behaving so lovingly and sweet to her, not just in the beginning but he might continue to do so just because she's such a bore and a drip that she will never ever contradict or do anything contrary to what he wants, so he will continue to be nice to her forever. On the bright side, if he is a narc, he will tire of her supply sooner or later and kick her to the kerb as well. If he isn't a narc, he will simply get bored with her because of her vapid and vacuous "personality" and her total inability to relate to him on an intellectual level.

I just want back the loving, attentive, handsome, intelligent, sexy man I fell in love with.

Recently I called him on his personal phone while drunk and the call kept getting dropped before connecting. I began to wonder if he had blocked my number, and felt physically sick at the thought of him doing that, but next morning I found out that he hadn't when he replied to a text I sent him (not an emotional text, just a text about the evening I was having out with friends. He will always reply to my texts as long as they do not have any emotional content in them). I was overjoyed to find that he had not blocked me. I am always so happy whenever he replies to one of my (infrequent) texts. Crumbs from the table. I want him back so much. I then called his work phone and left an "I miss you so much" message. He did reply to my text but no acknowledgment of my call. Aren't they supposed to be the stalkers, not us? What is going on? Do you guys think he's a narc or not? I have been NC for a couple of weeks now but even before that I would only ever text him once every couple of weeks.

Thanks so much for reading this.


Oct 18 - 2PM
Steph's picture

I am so sorry that you went

I am so sorry that you went through this awful and emotionally traumatizing experience. I read your story and I could relate to MANY things. It's chilling. Being idealized and then devalued cuts you to the very core of your being. I just wanted to tell you that everything you are feeling right now, the questions, the cognitive dissonance etc, is so normal after being exposed to this type of personality. It DOES get better with no contact though. You will question things less and see things clearer. You will see his behaviour is not normal and it was never about you. I have been NC for 10 months now and am so much better off....even though 10 months ago I thought I'd never get through it. I don't post here much anymore, but read often. I read your story and could relate to so much and just wanted to tell you to hang in there! You are strong, not alone, and very understood here. This too shall pass. xoxo
Oct 30 - 9AM (Reply to #28)
hooklineandsinker's picture

Thank you so much, staying

Thank you so much, staying strong. It's now been two months NC and I do feel more detatched from him. However I still do get that sick feeling of longing and of having been rejected whenever something reminds me of him. Plus I have no idea what to do with the rage I feel. I want to have him tied to a chair and hit him repeatedly upside the head with a baseball bat. I also want to grab the OW by her horrible hair (although I'd have to wear a rubber glove as I couldn't bear to touch it) and bash her face against a wall. I hope in time that these feelings will fade though.....
Sep 19 - 5PM
starofthesea's picture

second attempt..

..I wrote a long post on here yesterday and it didn't post so here is the short version. I really feel for you. What you went through is so upsetting, and a little bit similar to my story. Though they are very different types of Narc (and I understand your need to know - in a way it doesn't matter a much as the fact that they are damaging people end of story, but you need to make sense of things) Mine was less likely to withdraw physically but was extremely abusive verbally and sometimes physically, fits of rage, a big flirt, and so on. But that whole idea of meeting your dream, intellectually compatible, high-achieving, beautiful young man at an "older age" (late 30s for me) who is totally smitten with you - and I have the baby clock thing too. I thought at the time - there is a God! This is my reward for all the crap I've been through in the past (not N stuff, just average crap). Even though that was just the public facade, and inside the relationship I was very unhappy, but I still loved him so much..and when it all comes crashing down and your heart gets broken, it's horrible, and such a potent dream to give up. And the fact that all this love and affection you feel he has for you is so swiftly transferred to someone else (or in my case, general fishing around for OW during and since)- it hurts like nothing else. Jealousy following betrayal is the most corrosive emotion I've discovered, and I have gone through agonies trying to overcome it. I think you've been very strong and honest in your long story. I hope that venting helps. I don't think you need my advice. You're working through it all here, as I am, and hope you find clarity xx
Oct 18 - 1PM (Reply to #26)
hooklineandsinker's picture


That is EXACTLY how I felt when I met mine "There is a god!!" I too had been through years of being pissed about by men (like you, not narcs, just regular assclowns who didn't know what they wanted but were quite happy to waste my time in the meantime) and exactly like you, I felt he was my reward for all those shitty, shitty years. That's part of what makes this so hard.
Sep 15 - 9PM
liselotte's picture

baby issue

dear funsize, i've copy pasted a part of my story with my exN... please do not have any doubts anymore about whether or not this man is a narcissist. You were truly conned by a pathological narcissist. Here's an example that matches your experiences.: Alastair ordered brochures from Gretna Green (a famous Scottish wedding location) and he showed me pictures of the army houses for married couples and I warmed up to the idea of getting married. Furthermore I was going to move, leave Amsterdam to finally live with him, I looked into doing a master at the university close to the place we were going live and I really wanted to have a family, after all I had turned 30 (soon to be 31), time wasn't always going to be on my side (my general practitioner had pointed this out to me as well). What a lucky girl I was to have met this wonderful guy. [Narcissists dance the relationship dance with you which has all the appearance of being motivated with the same motives you have. They mouth words of love and fidelity which confirm to you that you both are on the same page. Meanwhile, they feel complete aversion to real intimacy. They are not truly connecting with you on an emotional level. You are not aware of this distance. Not yet. No, they are after something very different than what you're after.] True Colours My expectations were slowly but surely shattered and his 'true colours' started to appear during the following year, which was truly a hell for me. When I told him I had discussed our wedding plans with one of my best friends, he all of sudden thought it wasn't a good idea to get married yet. It all went too fast and he had second doubts... Because I wasn't the one warming him up to the idea of getting married (it was the other way around), I could understand his doubts and possible fear, so I blamed it on 'cold feet'. I decided to wait for the possibility to discuss things until his walls were down. Unfortunately there was never any possibility to discuss anything. [When connected to a narcissist you don't know what to expect. He may tell you one thing and then do another. Something you discussed and agreed on two hours ago will be dismissed. It's as if you never had the conversation. The idea he had yesterday has changed in preference of something else today. What he agreed to do for you he won't even admit to discussing. He offers to be reliable one minute and totally lets you down the next.] After two months I told him that I felt he was controlling the situation and deciding for us both what was happening when and how without offering alternatives whereas two months ago we were discussing marriage and having a family… and that I just couldn't understand. His reply was that he wanted us both to decide but it had to based on 'knowing each other as well as we can' (n.b. we had been together for almost 2 years). He said he wasn't sure if I wanted to have children with HIM or just because I had turned 30... He thought if we had children that I probably wanted to be close to my family and that it therefore wasn't a good idea to have children in Holland because then it was legally easier for me to take them with me if I was ever going to leave him, and that he now was not sure that I was never going to leave him because of what I had said to him about not staying for economical reasons... And of course, I had always said I didn't want to get married, so he wasn't going to ask me if he was going to be rejected. [This is how he reverses truths, how he spins reality, how his tactics make me feel guilty, using me as a bin to drop all HIS insecurities in. Paranoia is used by the narcissist to ward off or reverse intimacy. The paranoid narrative legitimizes intimacy repelling behaviours such as keeping one's distance, aloofness, reclusion, aggression, lying, desultoriness and unpredictability. Narcissists can't or won't trust, so they will test your total devotion.] At that time I didn't realise this yet, I only knew I was very upset and told him we were obviously on totally different wave lengths (I was right). I didn't get any reply (typical!) but two days later I received an enormous bunch of flowers for Valentine's Day, and... guess what happened? I felt guilty for having been hard on him, and I started doubt myself; "Maybe I did make him think all that, I hadn't been clear on what I felt for him, or maybe he's just insecure, maybe my expectations were unrealistic etc etc". [Cycles of idealisation followed by devaluation characterise many personality disorders. They reflect the need to be protected against the whims, needs, and choices of others, shielded from the hurt that they can inflict on the narcissist.] So time went on and for two months things were more or less ok, but we somehow weren't able to discuss our 'future agenda' again. take care!
Oct 17 - 2PM (Reply to #24)
Disillusionedx2's picture

Hit the nail on the head..

Nothing but the TRUTH, excellent delivery, insightful, you are the TRUTH, thanks for such a great summary.


Sep 16 - 12PM (Reply to #23)
hooklineandsinker's picture

PS: I LOVED your really

PS: I LOVED your really intelligent analysis of all his different behaviours. It makes the whole thing so clear.
Sep 16 - 12PM (Reply to #20)
hooklineandsinker's picture

I read your story before,

I read your story before, Lise. And mine, spookily enough, is also called Alistair! (just spelt differently)
Sep 17 - 7PM (Reply to #21)
liselotte's picture


Yes... they're all alike aren't they? Just messing with your head, for the pure malicious pleasure of it. No love, no commitment, no nothing. Where did you read my story? Thanks for the compliments... it really helped me to understand what the bleep had happened. take care and make sure to get out of this mess stronger, we're all survivors and we will thrive!
Sep 17 - 8PM (Reply to #22)
hooklineandsinker's picture

I read your story on here

I read your story on here before I actually signed up as a member. It had particular resonance for me since both our Ns were called Alistair (mine spelt his with an i but I think yours spelt it Alastair. God I even still miss him typing his name.....curses on them for doing this to us. Seriously.
Sep 14 - 8AM
anonymous's picture

Dear Funsize

Lots of similarities with my story. If you're interested, read it under Morty's Story. I haven't gotten through your whole story yet because honestly I had to stop reading for fear of starting to cry. Hit too close to home. All the other ladies are right - he's a narc, no doubt about it. I'll read more later and try to give the names of books and other resources beside this awesome board that have helped me. And no, 8 months is not short, especially in these extremely intense relationships. It will change your life. And although it doesn't feel like it right now, this experience will change your life for the better (but the credit is all due to you, not him). 42 is a common age - you'll read that too in our stories. Hang in there.
Sep 14 - 6PM (Reply to #14)
hooklineandsinker's picture

OMG Morty, sorry I upset you

OMG Morty, sorry I upset you so much. I really had NO idea ours was such a common experience. I thought most narcs were raging, screaming, out of control babies with a propensity for domestic violence. I literally had no idea that so many people have run into ones that look so civilised and urbane on the outside and are soooooo loving initially. Wow. I'm glad you think this experience will change my life for the better, but I really don't see how. Even before I met him, I was profoundly depressed by the realisation that I was then 41, still single, no children, no husband, no nothing, and STILL meeting nothing but wankers. So you can imagine how I thought he was a dream come true. And now? Now I can't even imagine believing ANYTHING any new man says to me. And that's never mind worrying about the question of when and where will I ever meet anyone I'm so attracted to again? Why is it this hard for me? I really feel like there is some sort of curse on my lovelife - marriage and children are things that happen to other people and not to me. So I'd really love to hear your take on how this will make my life better.... Also, interested that you say 42 is a common age on here...why do you think that is?
Sep 14 - 9PM (Reply to #15)
anonymous's picture

Funsize - You didn't upset me =)

No need to apologize AT ALL. That's what this board is for - to air your feelings, to vent, to come for support. So when I said that your story almost made me cry - it was from a simpatico point of view - not because you did anything wrong. OK - so a couple of observations and things that may help you down the path of healing.... 1) Rather than debate with yourself whether or not he's a narc - this debate is a complete waste of time because it keeps the focus on him and not on you. And your focus has to be on you now. 2) I was where you are now - I was trying to justify and rationalize his behavior by being too empathetic to him. Our ability to empathize is the N's MAIN ATTRACTION to us. They choose people who have this ability because they don't have it. And they don't choose it because they want it; they choose it because they believe that they have the great qualities that we do. We are the image they want to see when they look in the mirror. So they idealize us, not because they love us, but because we are who they want to be. A couple of books that explained this process well are Emotional Vampires and The Sociopath Next Door. Additionally, there's a book online by Nina Brown http://books.google.com/books?id=jRRP991BqNoC&dq=destructive+narcissistic+pattern&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=GieQTLmoBIT68Aa6pc3_DQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CCMQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false that talks about the Destructive Narcissist. This description helped me a lot: "If you have had a relationship with a DNP, you may have encountered the following. At first, the relationship runs smoothly. They are complimentary, seek your company, hang on to your words as if they are the greatest and make you feel special. Gradually, or even suddenly, they begin to make disparaging remarks, become bored with you, tune out what you are saying and make you feel inadequate. You may try harder to recapture the initial specialness of the relationship, but your efforts are in vain. The harder you try, the more they pull away. What has happened is the DNP has projected his grandiose self onto you and was relating to you as if you were that ideal, grandiose, omniscient self. These people relate to you as they perceive themselves to be. When you disappoint them, and you cannot help doing so, as you are not the projection, they devalue you as you really are. The DNP never saw you a s a person, but only as an extension of himself. No relationship can be maintained under these circumstances." 3)I used to chalk up his behavior to a distant father, a over-bearing mother, an unresolved Oedipal conflict, bi-polar, OCPD, drug addiction, etc. In other words, I kept the focus on HIS problems and used them as excuses to forgive him for what he did to me. It wasn't until I had a flash of insight a few weeks back in which I realized that I had a father who committed suicide, a mother who has a personality disorder, an abusive first husband, a disabled current husband, infertility, etc - all serious issues to deal with in an of themselves, never mind all together. YET - I have never used those issues as an EXCUSE to treat other people, and especially other people whom I profess to love and care about, like crap. I don't lie; I don't manipulate; I don't cheat others. 4) So - I intentially reviewed every last detail of every last interaction with him in a purposely JUDGMENTAL fashion. I purposely turned off my empathy and compassion for him. And in a very cold way - looked at his behavior from the lens of how would I teach my child to act and treat others in each of these situations? And looking at it from that perspective really helped me because I was finally able to see that he acted simply like an immature, spoiled child most of the time and some of the time, like a psychopath. And that's when I finally understood what everyone meant when they said I had to focus on me to understand why it is that this guy is absoloutely NOT the person for me, nor will he ever be. That's not to say that I don't still have moments of longing for him - becasue I do. I'm still in limerance with him and still dream about him sexually. But I know that one day, even though it will take a long time, that will fade as will my feelings for him. 5) A nice lady on this site, Bodhi, recommened a book called Living with the Passive Aggressive Male and that one helped me a lot too. It helped me understand why he acted the way he did but also helped me to realize that my decision to end the relationship after he D&Dd me but was still trying to keep me hanging with the best friends BS and the thread of "perhaps one day" was the absolute right decision for me. 6) You asked how this will help you and you implied that you're feelign pressure because of your age and you clock is ticking. I have some insight on that given my history with infertility. One suggestion is to stop looking for men on line. I know that it's probabaly easier said than done and I may not be the best person to give advice since I haven't been on the dating scene since forever. But it seems to me that there's something to be said for meeting a person face-to-face and seeing if he's real or not prior to falling for him in cyberspace. That's just my opinion. And if you want a child, as much as you want a man, there are perfectly acceptable ways to have children without a man. That's obviously a very pesonal choice - but don't let you desire for a child allow you to settle for a man who treats you like crap. 7) The age of 42 - why is it common? I don't know but in my case, I was 41 when I had the relationship and am now 42 and am still dealing with the aftermath. I guess I reached a point in my life where I felt I had given my all to everyone and I didn't necessarily feel that everyone was giving their all back to me. But I didn't speak up out of ingrained duty and loyalty. The Ex N totally sensed this; totally sensed my unhappinesss even without me ever talking about it and he exploited that vulnerability in me because that's what they do. That's what your N did to you too. All his bullshit talk about babies when he knew that was one of your deepest vulnerabilities was pure evil. Quote from the Sociopath Next Door, "He used his wife's dearest and most private dreams to manipulate her." This is no curse on you Funsize. This is a growth opportunity if you take the time to a)stop pressuring yourself and start spoiling yourself and b) educate yourself as much as you can not only about NPD so you can understand why this happened to you but also about yourself, your childhood, your history, your patterns in life that made you vulnerable to a seductive, disordered individual. That is not to imply that any of this is your fault because it absolutely isn't. But until you can understand yourself better, you could fall victim to the same sort of desperation in the future. Other topics to read up on are addictive relationships, anti-social personality disorder, the grieving process and healing yourself from pain. I hope this is helpful to you.
Sep 15 - 11AM (Reply to #16)
hooklineandsinker's picture

Hi Morty Thanks for the very

Hi Morty Thanks for the very comprehensive reply. Very thoughtful of you, and I will definitely look into the book recommendations. Just in relation to online dating - I never, ever fell for someone in cyberspace. I have been using online dating now for about 5 years on and off, and I learned very quickly NEVER to rely on someone's online profile because even if they ARE a super-nice guy and you have great chats online etc, they could turn out to be a dickhead in person, or even just not physically attractive. Therefore I always insisted (and put in my own profile) that firstly I would not answer mails without a photo, and secondly I would not engage in protracted online conversations, and if people persisted in endlessly emailing me and just wanted email tennis or a penpal, they should go elsewhere. I said that I would simply ignore email conversations that go nowhere since there is NO substitute for meeting up in person. Therefore if they didn't suggest a date in the real world within a couple of emails from first contact, I simply stopped corresponding with them. I had a lot of anger in the first place around the fact that I was even forced to resort to internet dating and that it seemed impossile to find a boyfriend in the real world, so I was absolultely not prepared to put up with the gut-wrenching disappointment I used to feel when I walked into a cafe or bar, saw the guy I was supposed to be meeting, and knew I would never find him physically attractive. My stomach would just sink. So even when someone DID have a photo on their profile, freqently they looked nothing like it in real life, and so I learned that no matter how cute they looked in their photos, always to be ready to be disappointed. Same thing for their personalities. I had this exact same attitude the night I went to meet the N for the first time. Although he looked handsome in his photos I knew enough at that point not to make any judgments until I saw him in the flesh. However I was so pleasantly surprised and was instantly attracted to him. That has never happened to me before with internet dating. I am also full of anger that I am being forced to consider having a baby by myself. I wish you could see/meet me. I am small, dark, pretty, smart, cute figure, loyal, funny and good company. I cannot for the LIFE of me figure out why everyone else in my world gets a boyfriend/husband/children but I don't. It's just beyond me and I have all but given up on it ever happening. I veer between thinking of suicide because I don't want to live the rest of my life alone and childless, vowing never to go online again, and then every so often checking in to a dating site to see what's going on, since as far as I can see there is NOWHERE else to meet men. Meeting them through friends hasn't worked. Meeting them through work hasn't worked. Meeting them socially hasn't worked. Meeting randomers in bars hasn't worked. Meeting them through speed dating hasn't worked. Meeting them on dating sites hasn't worked. I HATE my life these days and I am so ANGRY that everything the narc promised to me has been snatched away. If this is to be my life for the next 40 years, I'm not interested. I completely agree with you about your difficult background and it is all credit to you that you retain your courtesty, empathy, values and dignity in dealing with others and that you teach your daughter to do the same, whereas your N whinged constantly about his issues. Mine didn't, except for complaining about "people" pretty much all the time, but I think he is a cauldron of supressed rage at someone - not sure which of his parents. His father because he ignored him all his life, and possibly his mother because she would have been responsible also for sending him away at age 7. Although I suspect if you asked him why he was so angry the whole time, he wouldn't have the slightest clue. As to my childhood - my mother could be quite cold and distant when I was an infant and young child, and my father was a rageaholic for most of his life. We were never neglected or abused, always provided for etc etc, but I definitely could have done with more love, support and cuddling as a child. They are both great NOW, but NOW I am an adult and don't need that stuff as much. In general I regard myself as pretty healthy psychologically, and I think the narc sensed that and knew that I wouldn't put up with overt abuse. Any remarks he made were very subtle. For instance, towards the end, he told me my ass was "pointy", whereas a few months earlier it had been "my beautiful girl's sexy ass". How can anyone's ass NOT be pointy when you are on all fours, leaning on your elbows on the bed? Of course your sit-bones are going to stick out a little then! Not in porn, I supposed, but with normal women. He also talked about "acopia" a lot; for instance if I was getting mixed up with a lot of bags or items to carry, or papers or whatever, he would say "all sorts of acopia going on here". Acopia apparently means an inability to cope. I'd never heard that word until I dated him. He said these things in a friendly, teasing tone, not a snide one. The first time I heard him being snide to me was the night of the cinema that I mention in my story. So I'm not sure how my childhood feeds into this stuff at all, although long ago I learned to stand up for myself since my mom never really took my side in anything (fights with little schoolfriends etc - she always wanted to know what I had done instead of defending me. I can recall only one incident in which she marched over to a neighbour's house to accuse their kids of something). This learning to defend myself has possibly made me somewhat defensive and unapproachable but it is kind of offset by my looks and bubbliness once you get to know me a bit. But I certainly don't look for partners that are anything like my parents, except when it comes to intelligence.
Sep 15 - 6PM (Reply to #17)
anonymous's picture

Funsize - Part I - The issue of having a child

Hi - I'm going to take your post and break it down in chunks... You wrote, "I am also full of anger that I am being forced to consider having a baby by myself... I cannot for the LIFE of me figure out why everyone else in my world gets a boyfriend/husband/children but I don't. I veer between thinking of suicide because I don't want to live the rest of my life alone and childless... I HATE my life these days and I am so ANGRY that everything the narc promised to me has been snatched away. If this is to be my life for the next 40 years, I'm not interested." I understand your anger. But this isn't about what other people "get" and you being left out of those opportunties. I, for whatever reason, had a disease that led to infertility. I too wondered if I was going to be forever childless. So I probed deep down to make sure I understood why I wanted a child. What is because I truly wanted a child - not just a cute baby, but a child who wouldn't be so cute when she turned 13 and got into piercings, black nailpolish and tatoos and I wouldn't let her have them... (no offense against anyone who has that stuff!). Or, was it because I feared growing old and having no one to take care of me? Or was I fearful that NOT being a mother meant that I was less of a person? I came to the conclusion, honestly, that it as a little bit of all that stuff, but the driving factor was that I simply wanted a child to love, and to help grow into the best person that she could be. And her origin (whether she was a product of my body or not) really was less important to me. My point is this - rather than tie your desire to have child with your search for a boyfriend/husband - try to separate these two things. What's more important to you? Having a good man in your life who treats you well and if children happen to be part of that equation, then great. Or, having a child in your life for selfless reasons? Or both? And if it's both, then you have to make sure that you know yourself and feel content and happy within yourself before you can find that good man. Look at the patterns in your life - who you go for, who attracts you, and how your previous relationships failed. See if there is a pattern. And if there is, try to understand it before becoming involved with anyone again. Figure out what YOU want for yourself. And once you open yourself up to those possibilities, you never know where you might find the right person. There are 6 billion people on this planet which means 3 billion men. The N wasn't the be all, end all. I'm worried that you say you veer toward suicidal and that you're not interested in life if it means being husband-less and child-less. I think you have far more to give. I'm not diminishing the pleasure and importance of a husband or child, but as I recall, you have a successful career as a lawyer. Which means you have an identity as an independent, successful woman that you can build upon. Perhaps you could perform pro bono legal work for a women's shelter, or for a child advocacy group. Or something else - anything that would put you in contact with and connect you to like-minded people, both men and women who share your outlook on life and who contribute to your feeling of self-worth. It's easy for me to say - don't let this bastard get you down. But, it's not really easy for me to say that because, guess what, I have to tell myself that every day. You will find that being the victim of the N's D&D is going to be one of the more painful things you experience in life. But somehow find a way to learn from this - learn about and invest in yourself. You are worth it. And if you're seriously feeling suicidal - please get help. Your identity is not something that can be given to you by any man or child. It is yours and yours alone. If you ever seriously feel like taking your own life - call 911 or call a friend or your family. Please trust me on this one - I'm the child of a suicide victim and suicide is never, ever the answer.
Sep 16 - 1PM (Reply to #18)
hooklineandsinker's picture

Thanks Morty for that very

Thanks Morty for that very supportive post. Havihe suicide thing comes and goes. Today I haven't thought of it at all. Having the right man in my life is more important to me than having a baby but I am scared that even if/when that happens and if the baby thing doesn't happen that I will feel angry and resentful for the rest of my life, certainly at God, if not all my other family members (who have marriages and families) and all my friends (ditto). My pattern for the past ten years seems to be to have picked assclowns who don't know what the hell they want. See, in my 20s, it was so simple. I liked someone, they liked me, we went out for 3 years, or 5 years, or whatever it was. My 30s were a hellhole as far as relationships were concerned. I met nothing but fuckwits who would be all over me at the start and then start acting evasive and flaky and finally either disappear themselves, or force me to dump them (these weren't narcs because there wasn't the love-bombing that goes on at the start with narcs. They were just fuckwits). What I am confused about is why they all tend to gravitate towards me. I put up with no nonsense whatsoever (actually, maybe that's why they leave - they see that I'm not a doormat and won't take whatever pathetic shit they want to throw at me at any point) and I have high self-esteem and high standards for people's behaviour (good manners, loyalty, reliability, consideration etc) because I have those standards for myself and because that is the way I was raised. So I can't for the life of me figure out why it's been dickhead after dickhead for my whole 30s and early 40s. I had one good relationship in my 30s for 2 years, but he was so hard to get on with (very rigid, very controlling - not of me, but of himself and his own schedule - no idea how to do chaos or spontaneity) and I could see how he would be a complete pain in the ass to deal with once children came along so it ended. He is now married to someone else. I also think another moron I dated a couple of years ago was a narc. But I only let that continue for 2 months - once I realised I was being demoted I got the hell out of there. I completely blank him at work now and my stomach turns at the thought that I was ever intimate with him. So after this parade of asswipes you can see how wondeful the narc seemed. He made up for every let-down, every heartbreak, every night of frustration and loneliness and rage and longing that I had had over guys for a full ten years. I'm torn between just having a baby by sperm donor and never bothering to date ever again, or trying to believe that the right man is still out there. Although I'm not sure I'd be able to believe anything any man ever says to me again because of the narc's lies.
Sep 13 - 6PM
The Girlfriend ...
The Girlfriend of Dr Jekyl's picture

I'll Find the Story

And bump it up to make it easier for you to find... xoxo 'Forget love - I'd rather fall in chocolate!'
Sep 13 - 7PM (Reply to #12)
hooklineandsinker's picture

Going to sleep now because

Going to sleep now because it's 1.20am here but will check in tomorrow x
Sep 13 - 7PM (Reply to #11)
hooklineandsinker's picture

Sweet, cheers for that GF.

Sweet, cheers for that GF.
Sep 13 - 6PM
wholeagain's picture

I have to agree with The Girlfriend here...

First of all I'm glad you found this board and hope you're readingreadingreading as much as you can. I see so many red flags in your yes-he's-a-narc column, some of them extremely disturbing. Favorite movie about a serial killer...loves reading the Marquis de Sade...etc. And by the way his text back to you about that struck me as just chilling. He didn't answer your concerns, he just diverted you. So his sexual issues are beyond a huge red flag IMO, and having spent almost two decades with a sex addict I can tell you that it's not a ride you want to be on. He's got something really pathological going on there from the looks of it. I also think his not being able to come in you was likely about not wanting to risk a pregnancy. And it's pretty clear he has a boatload of intimacy issues. Nothing in the no-he's-not-a-narc column phases me for a minute, those are all things a narc might do for a variety of reasons. To make himself look good (by spending lots of money on expensive gifts) to get something he wants from you, or just as part of the act he's honed for all these years. They do mimic normal people, sometimes unbelievably well. The ex did a lot of good things for me too, they just never could make up for the soul killing that went with it. For not being angry, he seems to be seething with it. I'd say only a matter of time before that pot boils over, and I wouldn't want to be there to see it. I think they say that a narc can keep the mask on for six months but after that point it's bound to slip. And it sounds like his really did, right on target. He's a handsome, well mannered package...full of rotted veg. What you miss, what you loved, what you wanted, I'm so sorry to say never did exist. He'll never be the perfect man he made himself out to be because he's empty inside. Please go back and read your story, but imagine you're reading something written by whatever woman in your life you love and admire the most. Sometimes it helps to step outside our skin and see things from a different angle. I can tell you that from an outsider's perspective he looks like a nightmare. I'm sorry you're going through this, it's awful and it's painful and does leave you reeling. But there is life after it, and I agree with Girlfriend in that at some point I think you'll look back and be glad you didn't waste as much time as some of us in that crazy house of mirrors. It sounds like you've had normal experiences with men in the past and there's no reason to think you won't find a lovely man in your future, when you're ready. Hang in there.
Sep 14 - 7AM (Reply to #7)
hooklineandsinker's picture

Just on the text about the

Just on the text about the Marquis de Sade book: in my text I wasn't condemning him for reading that stuff (or owning some of the books, which he does) or asking him why he has read it (I mean people are free to read or buy whatever books they like i my opinion, although in the case of really sick stuff you would have to question why they would want to) - I was just saying that I had just read a paragraph of a book randomly while I was browsing in a bookshop, and it had left me feeling so violated, sick and depressed. In the text I asked him to help make me feel better, hence his reply. But yeah, he never acknowledged explicitly that that material is extremely disturbing.
Sep 25 - 5PM (Reply to #8)
kiwi10's picture

marqi de sad

i never read it myself, but my x talked about it too
Sep 25 - 5PM (Reply to #9)
kiwi10's picture

he also was very generous

he also was very generous (still is) and told me i was the prettiest thing in the world almost daily.
Sep 13 - 6PM (Reply to #6)
hooklineandsinker's picture

Thank you Wholeagain, that

Thank you Wholeagain, that is such a sweet message. And you hit the nail on the head at the end - part of this whole trauma is that I am 42, have never been married, have watched my five siblings (all younger) settle down and marry and have beautiful babies, as well as all my (younger) friends, and so in losing him I not only lost my boyfriend but the future I thought he was planning for us. I am so, so frightened that I will just never meet the right man or if I do, it will be too late to have children. I wake up every morning with a knot in my stomach because of this wider issue. I have even felt suicidal over the past few months since the breakup because all of my dreams have been snatched away and I have no idea when or where the right man will come from. I am so confused and bewildered that it has still not happened for me and moreover all I seem to attract are timewasters and now quasi-psychopaths like this latest man. And now that I think of it - you're absolutely right about the text about the Marquis de Sade. He DIDN'T say "I know honey, it's really really sick stuff, please put that book down and don't ever open it again", he just kind of fobbed me off. And so far from him being someone "who would never let anything bad happen to you" - this is the same man who unceremoniously dumped me three days after my birthday. What I found kind of chilling was the night I describe in my story about when we went to the cinema. To start crying and for your boyfriend to just coldly say "Oh dear" instead of jumping back into the car to hug you and comfort you and talk it out - that was pretty horrible. And you're right about the repressed rage - the only time I'd see it was when he was driving. He would pull up to a right hand turn (we drive on the left here) and swing violently and sharply into it instead of easing into it. He would keep revving on the accelorator if the car in front was not moving quickly enough in traffic. In his country they don't use the horn much because people get road rage if you do. Here in mine we use it all the time and no one gets particularly bothered by it, unless it's REALLY aggressive. However in my country the revving thing is considered really obnoxious driving, yet he did it a lot. He texted me one time about some guy in traffic who had beeped him or cut him off or something, and that he had glared and stared intimidatingly at him until the other guy just freaked out and backed off. He kind of took pride in telling me this story. And he even lists the serial killler movie as his fave on his FB page! There are no other movies listed.
Sep 13 - 5PM
The Girlfriend ...
The Girlfriend of Dr Jekyl's picture

Well then! This is a Start!

Well, your's is quite a long story, it's true...and I am sure you needed to vent,as all of us do. Welcome to this website, I hope you make some good friends and find the info and comfort you will need to heal. There are ALOT of READ FLAGS that virtually prove that your BF is a Narcissist...at the very least. There may be much that you do not know about him...AND, sorry to say this to you...but these guys are VERY good at hiding a 'secret' life from us...especially when we are trusting, loving positive gals...and normally would never suspect such a thing! They are ALSO very good at mimicry...and can seem like the most charitable and caring, empathetic guys EVER!!! NO kidding. Mine ALSO used to run charitable marathons and go to events to raise money for some worthy causes (later, as I got to know him after years...I could see this was also part of his 'mask' or facade...and also another venue in which to find people who would validate him for being such a 'great guy'...PLUS...keep an eye out for any interesting woman he might be able to attract...REALLY!!!)) I too used to see his involvment with these things as signs he was 'healthy' and 'wonderful'...there were virtually NO signs to the contrary...for a VERY long time!...He appeared to be one of the most caring decent of guys I EVER met...and he is also very good-looking, a real 'Prince Charming', 'tall, dark and handsome too'! I was thanking my lucky stars and everything to have been so fortuante to actually BE wit him. (oh my GOD! He is most definatley NOT such a 'great guy' after all, though...but it took well over a year for me to find out some of the things aout him...and longer to learn more of the truth!) His 'withholding sex' for those 5 weeks before breaking up was a classic 'sign' that he was up to something else. I know you may not want to believe that he could ever cheat on you...but these guys WILL lie and cheat (and at the same time appear to be the most devoted and loving of BF's or husbands) It is mind boggeling how they can and DO fool some of the most educated, intelligent, astute and terrific women!...Narcisists cheat and lie...it is just one of the many things they DO. Christie Brinkley, Elizabeth Hurley, Sandra Bullock...all gorgeous, acomplished, talented and smart women...all who had very hurtful relationships with a Narcisisst...I really mean it when I say they will lie to and cheat on any woman...no matter how pretty...or wonderful she is... The reason is that they are always looking for 'supply'...newer and MORE validation and attention. No amount of your giving him lots of affection, great sex, understanding, attention...validation...nothing you could *be* or *do* 'more' or 'better'...would make any difference. Perhaps this new woman, who is not as smart or as pretty as YOU are...is not a threat to him...perhaps he realizes you would always get some of the attention where ever you go...because you ARE pretty, smart and have a good job...and obviously SHINE...At first he viewed you as a conquest and someone to 'decorate' his arm...but perhaps later saw you as a rival for the attention he gets...Having someone 'less than' you...and himself...well, he is not going to worry that she might be the center of attention, that's for sure!...and this also ensures that HE will always be the one who gets the admiration and attention...this IS also a sign he is a Narcissist. (add in the PORN...and other stuff)...and it seems to be that this is what he really IS. You were with him for 8 months. Not to minimize what you experienced...but eventually you may come to appreciate that your relationship was ONLY that long...instead of marrying this man...and having a child or two...and ending up with him doing this same thing later (his lying, cheating...need for attention all the time)...and worse...!!! The longer you are with a Narcissist...the more damage they do to you...and to every aspect in your life! Another way to tell if you were wth a Narcissist or another pathologically impaired man...when you break up with someone that is 'normal'...it may hurt for a little while...and you might miss them...but you are both usually left intact, and NOT devastated, and you both wish each other 'wellbeing' and happiness...you are NOT enemies, and even sometimes in some circumstances you can later be friends after an adjustment period to get over the break-up.(but NEVER try to be friends with a Narcisist EX...they will only use you for supply in various ways...sex, validation, attention, etc.etc.) With a pathological man...you are left devastated, feeling damaged in some way, or lacking in your previous state of mind and happiness. You have lowered self-esteem and may be bewildered...almost like you did something 'wrong' or that you weren't 'enough'...they leave you feeling VERY badly...and they usually replace you very quickly...if not immediately...(because they were already seeing this person behind your back or nurturing a relationship with them that you were not aware of...and once it becomes a full blown 'relationshp...they leave you) Find and read my story if you want in the 'story' section here under 'The Girlfriend of Dr Jekyl & Mr Hyde's Story'. I think if you were with this guy for much longer...there would be all sorts of things you eventually find out about him that you don't know now. Don't underestimate how good they are at hiding their true selves. Forget love - I'd rather fall in chocolate!
Sep 13 - 5PM (Reply to #2)
hooklineandsinker's picture


Thanks so much for the response, Girlfriend. Wow. So you really reckon he was a true narc then? I was kind of expecting people on here to say no, not really....because some of the other men discussed here are soooo much more evil and horrible. Plus: what about all the nice stuff he did? I would love to hear your take on that because it's more that that's wrecking my head and making me feel bad for even thinking he's a narc.... It's sickening to think that the reason for the withholding of the sex may have been because he was cheating. God almighty, that never even occurred to me. I did ask him on the night of the breakup whether there was anyone else and he said no. If he was cheating, it can't have been with the new whore because he literally didn't know she existed back then. There is no way he could have run into her up until that wedding (she lives 2.5 hours away and is not in my circle), which means if he was cheating, it was with a third party altogether. Good god. You may be on to something when you say that he felt I would take some of the attention off him. I really couldn't understand his "I felt I was always behind you - as long as you were out in front you were happy" or whatever nonsense he told me at the breakup. I said "there IS no 'in front', or 'behind'- we were a couple!" but of course he declined to reply to this. I literally didn't know what he was on about with this "behind" stuff. But maybe he was saying the exact same thing that you are now saying. I mean I am naturally chatty and bubbly but most other boyfriends liked that quality. It is so weird to think of someone resenting me for this rather than delighting in it. And I've no intention of being friends with him. I really did feel like a piece of crap the night we broke up - he made me feel like I was the really selfish one, always out for myself, etc etc. Some days I hate him for setting me up for such a fall. Why would he bother with all the marriage and babies talk if he knew he was always going to move on? He really did talk about himself a LOT though - but I quite like hearing people talk about themselves and their pasts etc; I'm quite happy to let others talk and find talking about myself quite boring in fact. So I didn't mind that at all. And he did always ask how I was and how my day was. Do you think he's just a really mild form of narc?
Sep 13 - 6PM (Reply to #3)
The Girlfriend ...
The Girlfriend of Dr Jekyl's picture

The Hard Part

I think the most difficutl aspect of being with one of these pathological men...is the difficulty in comprehending the difference between the man they 'pretend to be'...and the man they really are'...And sometimes, especially if you haven't been with them for a long time...you may never know the extent of how 'bad' he really is! He worked hard to only let you see the 'good' and he was careful to mimic all the virtues he thought it would take, or that were necessary to get you to be with him...and then do whatever it tookk to get you to fall in love and stay with him (until he was ready to run off to the next)..perhaps his mask was starting to slip and he thought you would find out he was less than perfect, and NOT the man he pretended to be?...they can only keep up appearances for 'so long'...and often they will then go off with the next unaware woman instead of risk exposure... I suspect you only got some of the truth about who and what he really is! They are VERY good at hiding behind a mask of being SO loving and SO wonderful...it is very painful when they drop the facade...and you glimpse the man they really are behind the mask...and see that they are nothing like they act like they are or first appear to be! My Prince Charming...in whom I NEVER saw a single sign of any ability to rage or abuse or even have any signs of being less than wonderfully healthy and communcative...has a history of violence ad arrests...and a hidden life of abuse and lying and cheating...and he eventually beat me and hurt me in terrible ways... finding out he is really a poisonous TOAD has been VERY hurtful to process... Forget love - I'd rather fall in chocolate!
Sep 13 - 6PM (Reply to #4)
hooklineandsinker's picture

Oh my god that's horrible.

Oh my god that's horrible. I am so sorry that there was physical abuse in your relationship. I tried to find your story in the search field but can't - can you tell me when approximately you posted it so I can look for it that way. I know mine used to get very angry in the past, in different jobs that he had. He was always saying that he hated being around people. He left his last job and in fact his whole country in a rush - he told me he "fled" because he was so unhappy in the job because he couldn't get on with his boss. Now two years on he's thinking of changing jobs again, for similar reasons. But I never saw overt rage in him. However there were a couple of days when I felt very uneasy around him - once when we were hiking together and I thought I knew the route but was a bit confused because there was a new forest path there since I had last walked it. I was kind of thinking out loud and trying to decide what way to go, but he just kept completely silent and didn't try to help figure it out or anything. That made me feel like I was subtly being judged or something. That was the day I went straight home when we got back to his house because of the weirdly hostile atmosphere. I ended up drinking whiskey in my own apartment to try and get rid of the sick feeling in my stomach that he was losing interest in me.