Funsize,
I know exactly what you are going through. I used to feel the same way. I am different now. My N/P experience changed me to the core. But it took time. Betty is EXACTLY right. You are looking for a salve in the form of another man. Recipe for failure. Jen79 is also right on target...you have already given over your power. Recipe for disaster, which you are already feeling.
People used to always tell me, "work on yourself. Be happy with yourself first..." blah blah blah. I'd think , "F that. People are supposed to be coupled up!"
Well, true. Sort of. People who feel whole within themselves are ready to be coupled up. But if you feel like a half without a man (like I did MY WHOLE LIFE up until this year), then you will likely continue to attract the wrong man. Bad men.
I wish I could tell you how to get to this place. I always wanted to be here, but couldn't find it. But when you find it...feeling whole, not giving over your power to men you don't even know...well, then everything makes sense and falls into place.
Take time for you. Find your passion. It's the key.
Take care.
Okay, now think about that. You said 50% of marriages end in divorce, so 50% of couples are living contentedly and happily with one another. Where is this place, so I can live there?
What it means is, 50% of marriages DON'T end in divorce. That's all that means.
But I'm not saying it's IMPOSSIBLE to be happily married, I'm just saying it's hard. And being "happily" married has a lot to do with low expectations, lol. Not about someone being 100% right for you and 100% there for you. That's a dog.
50% of marriages surviving doesn't mean that they're happy either. I suppose in my culture marriage is still kind of the target for most people and also most people tended to stay together for the long haul. Most of my friends' parents' marriages, and my own parents', are of course not perfect but they all still seem to get on grand and even still have a laugh with each other and stuff. In fact I think my own parents get on better now than they did when we were all growing up.
you are not other people, and really, contentment starts with stopping to compare yourself with others. Dont look right and left.
Look how you react, cause some jerk that you barely know, didnt call you. Do you think you are ready for a healthy relationship? You have already given him power, though you dont know him, about your happiness.
Its not about giving up on love, its about taking your power back - who has a perfect relationship, with kids and they live happily ever after - the question is, do you want to wait for that to happen, before you are happy again and enjoying your life? Thats why you should let go of the idea. To become happy here and now.
Take the power back. Be happy in the here & now. Wow! Why wait for some man to call for the weekend date. Nix him. He's not interested. He has his issues. He's busy with what is his business. So what? Got zero to do with you or if you are worthy. Call some friends of your own. Make some dates of your own with people you like. Not just men of romantic interest. Branch out. See the world.
You have every right to be angry. Be angry! It makes me crazy when I'm told that I shouldn't be angry - - (this isn't regarding any of the posts here - I haven't read most of the responses yet.)
So many guys out there are absolute jerks with no consideration - no gentlemen - -
It's frustrating as hell for me to see cutesy happy couples. That was all I ever wanted for myself. In a way it would have been so much better if I never had the experiences I had with narcissists who just dangled the carrot and then laughed in my face. I would have rather been without that abuse.
One thing I am doing is learning how to meditate, establish boundaries and I have been seeing a therapist regularly. I'm taking control back over my life. FUCK these assholes! There is no way I'm going to let them kill me!
My therapist told me in my last session that when I have been able to firmly establish my boundaries, I will be more comfortable allowing another guy to get close to me.
For now - and it has been a year, I can't even imagine myself getting close to another guy. I actually developed a tick. These guys really do give us PTSD. It's not B.S. It's completely normal.
and to release resistance.
We are stuck in the illusion of being disconnected - from source/god/universe - you name it. But look, it gives you hints and guides you through it, you just have to listen to it.
A guy that doesnt call you now, is not ment for you. Be happy you didnt invest more!
And it surely says to refocus on yourself. Its true, we have to find contentment and happiness not matter what the outer circumstances are, before we even can consider dating again.
The purpose on life is sure not to find a man, if you are happy and content by your own, the one that matches with your vibration will find you, when you listen to your gut and follow your joy and inner guidance. He will catch up on you, and then you share happiness, cause you are both on the same level.
But before you only attract crap. Law of attraction doesnt has a name included, if a program is still active within you, you are putting that program on the person who is around you. So if it says, i was abused, left and devalued, and I have problems to trust again, guess what you are going to attract?
I will not date for at least a year I swear. I better do yoga daily, paint, and find a good job...then we will see. Serious, there is another way to live, than just finding fullfillment in a relationship.
Sugar, have you been reading this board? Who in the whole fucking world has met the right person and married them? That's distorted thinking... you are mad about something that isn't really true.
Most of my friends ARE married, yes, and most of us are struggling pretty hard. Obviously the thousand plus members on this board are in the same boat with you and me. Either single and "alone" or married and "alone." I can promise you being married and alone is a true nightmare, cuz there ain't no hope of something better. Not to minimize what YOU are going through one bit. I can't really know exactly what you're feeling, but I can tell you the grass isn't always greener on the other side. It's just different.
It's SO hard to give up the dream you thought you had with the narc... I too thought I'd lose MY f**king mind when I had it all taken away from me. It's the world's biggest gyp.
I think trying to date right now is really counter-productive for you. You are so raw and sensitive from what's happened, and you need to heal before you can really date anyone. This isn't the best thought pattern to have: "I REALLY thought that this was my chance to start forgetting about N, because this other guy had come along."
That's a really shaky way to start forgetting someone. And right now you are banking on someone else to make your life right. You banked on narc to do it, and he offered his nefarious fake promises... and now you are looking for someone else to make that go away and hopefully be the One, and then all will be well.
Honey, that's a recipe for disaster.
You can make your life great... and frankly, when you start doing that in earnest, you will be really attractive to others anyway. Not that you aren't attractive now, of course, but I worry about who you will attract. When you don't need SOMEONE so badly, then you have a better chance of a GOOD one coming along.
Focus on YOU, funsize. YOU. Not guys, any guys. I am so sorry you are feeling alone right now. It sucks. But look at other ways to meet PEOPLE. People, not guys. Look on Meetup or something. Start with women only, first, if you can. Look for someplace to volunteer even.. there are tons of opportunities to fill your time with something besides focusing on being single. And think of the nice sort of people you might meet in that type of organization (as long as you keep your guard up. ;) ) Looking online or in clubs is the worst place to find someone who isn't a knucklehead or worse.
All the married people reading this are probably thinking of 101 things they would like to do if they had ANY freedom. Maybe reframe your situation has having some FREEDOM. And if you meet someone that is right for you, that will be a blessing in your life, but you will be giving up something else... you might be thinking I don't WANT any freedom, dammit, but I can tell you that's only because you have it.
Reframe your life... what can you do NOW to take advantage of being free, before one day you are not? And don't poison your own life thinking about how great married people have it. I daydream about RUNNING AWAY from all of it. And now in talking to you, I have challenged myself to reframe my own life and think about what I can do NOW, too, instead of pining for what I cannot do.
Just want to say, and I'm unfortunately stealing a quote here, but:
the grass is green where you water it.
Understand that getting married involves a tradeoff just like staying single does.
I think its a misnomer to say that everyone who doesnt get a divorce is most likely stuck in an unhappy marriage. I can at least speak for myself when I say that mine has its ups and downs, but I'm not at the point where I am pining to get out.
Marriage is not the answer to any problem, but neither is trying to convince anyone that its never going to amount to more than a "crap shoot." I don't live with rose-colored glasses on, but I don't agree with that sentiment, either. Marriage is what you make of it. Its perfectly natural for anyone want to get married.
No offense meant to anyone, but I just disagree with that statement.
No one said it's NOT perfectly natural to want to get married. Of course it is, it's a normal desire.
But when someone says this:
NOTHING can bring me happiness right now other than knowing I'm with a man who 100% wants to be with me, who is 100% right for me and whom I can rely on 100%. NOTHING.
...then the normal desire is being elevated into something totally unrealistic, and dangerous, if you'd rather BE DEAD than single.
Better off, I wouldlike to know what you mean by FREEDOM anyways. I don't consider myself in jail. My wedding ring is not a pair of handcuffs.
I would venture to say that being single can be like living in a jail. Always on the lookout, always presenting your best behavior, sifting through the garbage and the losers and the Narcs that are out there.....ain't no kind of freedom to me. And if marriage is not your cup of tea, fine, but don't sit there and sugarcoat loneliness and tell me that being alone is the greatest thing because of all the freedom married people are missing out on. We are meant to be social creatures, and as women, it is out BIRTHRIGHT to bear children if that's what we want in life. Yes, do be happy with yourself, and all of that, but let's not kid ourselves here, marriage, stable relationships, and family is what and has kept our society together for genereations. Its how we humans operate. I love this board, but I hope to God that it never swings so hard in one direction that all the message is boiled down to marriage is antiquated and it just doesn't work."
Look, the real problem here, the common thread here, is Narcs. Let's not get off topic. I'm all for dissing Narcs and asshole men in general, but not marriage.
Yeah, that was a rant, but ya know, its just that kind of day. feel better now.
Well, I think you're extrapolating some things I didn't say. When the hell did I say marriage was antiquated and didn't work? I didn't even IMPLY that. As a matter of fact, marriages have had problems since the beginning of time, so how are they antiquated? I didn't say they didn't work either; I said they won't MAKE you happy. But you're awful quick to judge...
I didn't mean freedom from marriage, I just meant some personal freedom to do and go where you please, to spend money how you please, etc. Travel in ways you cannot after you have a family, at least not for a long time. My point is that she is taking those things FOR GRANTED. I WILLINGLY gave those things up for my children, I stayed at home with them for 10 years, I have sacrificed a lot for them. So sue me if I am sometimes envious of a person who is free to do what she wants, when she wants, how she wants, and as a lawyer, presumably doesn't have to worry endlessly about money. For some people, and a lot of women besides me, that would be something of a fantasy for US. There are benefits to either state of being.
I never did get to be on my own, I never had my very own apartment, I feel like I never once had an opportunity to really live MY life or have any independence. It's been hard sometimes to feel I missed out on that, and I can't get it back. Okay? So if you HAVE to do that, at least look at what it does offer you, and make the very most of it, because once it's gone, it's gone. Who HASN'T looked up in the midst of the first year of motherhood and thought, OMG, I didn't realize this was going to consume every second of my existence. I guess you haven't, because, again, you are making posts about your moral superiority.
I guess I'm not as saintly as you, since you never think about those things, and that your motherhood BIRTHRIGHT is so important, more important than obviously you seem to think any other people feel, that even your screen handle is your identity as someone's mother and not a separate person.
If you had read some of my other posts, I did clarify that it IS possible to have a happy marriage, but funsize is drowning in a lot of distorted thinking that all married people are content and happy, and I'm sorry, but that is not the truth. And for her to HAVE a happy marriage in the future, to BE happy married, she needs to have a realistic view of it.
When someone is talking about ending their life because they're single, I think some realism is in order.
So please, get off YOUR high horse, honey.
I'm not here to judge you, or any one else, and no I'm not a fucking saint, either, never said I was.
And I'm all about keeping it real, I agree, why off yourself over a man and not being married? I'm riiiight there with you. I just happen to be really, really confused about your views on marriage, as you seem to oscillate between:
marriage is ok to want, but you fantasize so much about the freedom so much you can taste it.
You cant stand the thought of staying with someone for decades.
What are you saying exactly? Please understand Im not attacking you or trying to be rude. Im trying to get where you are coming from. I already know from your posts that youve been through a lot with your marriage and kids. I feel for you, believe me.
It its a matter of the two of us not agreeing about marriage, then thats the way it is, I suppose. I want you to know that I do think a lot of your posts make a lot of sense, and I do respect you for having really spot on insights.
However, I do resent the fact that YOU have immediatley made many ASSumptions about ME. Go back and read YOUR posts, if you don't believe that.
"....that even your screen handle is your identity as someone's mother and not a separate person."
That I CHOSE to use that as my screen name, not that I need to defend it, means that I am, in fact, Proud to be my daughter's mother.......after all these years of wondering if I would ever be one. It certainly doesn't mean that being a mom is to me, my main identity.
I don't feel morally superior to anyone here, let alone you. If I did, I would be a fucking NARC and wouldnt even be here!!!!!
ShaynasMommy... I believe you were the one who told a distraught member who was agonizing over her affair with a narc that she shouldn't have expected sympathy because of the affair. I posted that women in that boat should not be afraid to speak because they thought they didn't deserve any sympathy if they had done the same thing. And you know what, they started coming out of the woodwork. Because they WERE already so shamed they were afraid to post and thought they didn't have the right.
I also have the scarlet letter, but I also have a big mouth, so I post anyway.
I AM PROUD of being a mother too... I can talk about the tradeoff without it meaning I am NOT proud.
If my posts about marriage are confusing, I think it's because I'm talking about events that happened at different times. And the context was about hooklinesinker (HLS) FANTASIZING that marriage is the only way to be happy. So I was making the point that married people can FANTASIZE about having some freedom.
It doesn't mean I'm against marriage because I sometimes wish I could have a little personal freedom. This is exactly what I'm talking about... how does feeling that make me some kind of anti-marriage person? Again, you seem to feel some kind of distaste that anyone could even want a weekend to themselves without someone bothering them. All four of us share one bathroom. Yeah, I have fantasies, and I am alone, and I am in my OWN bathroom, and the towels have flowers on them, and it doesn't STINK. I'm a terrible person.
And I'm glad for you that that you don't feel like you have handcuffs... my husband is VERY controlling. A lot of men are controlling. Everything in our lives revolves around HIS extended family, and THEY are controlling. That doesn't mean I don't love them, or that nothing in my life is good, a lot of my life is good, it's that when someone is looking into my life and they see a big happy family, they also don't see a big SMOTHERING family. It's both. THE POINT again being it's not perfect and there are times it feels hard to get any breathing room. I can't buy a jar of peanut butter without there being a federal fact-finding commission about if it was the right kind.
The decades comment was from 2 and half years ago... that is how I felt then.. that I could not endure a 50 year marriage.. to MY husband. It's taken a lot of hard work and prayer to get past that point, and I have. I look forward to the future.
MY POINT was that she is willing to lay down and die because she was single, and I was telling her I was married and felt the same way!
This has nothing to do with whether marriage is good or bad, it has to do with HOW good. It's not worth dying for.
I'm really sorry youv'e got the impression that I'm just a heartless, judgemental bitch who lives in La-La land about marriage, and I do thank you for your clarifications, but since this string of communications seemingly is going downhill and not very productive, mainly because of your presumptions about me, then I'm going to have to end things on my end. When I said don't expect any sympathy (and I don't remember wording it in any particularly nasty way like that) I wanted to let women know that they could be walking into dangerous territory considering that many on here have had their marriages broken by OW's and adultery.
I'm just not going to worry about it anymore. As you indicated, EVERYONE here has the right to voice their opinions and feel safe to do so. Iv'e put up with enough supression in this sense from Narcs in my life, Im sure asl hell not going to put up with it here.
Have a great weekend, Ladies! God Bless!
First of all, RIGHT THIS MOMENT, funsize (hooklineandsinker) has stated clearly that she is willing to DIE. She is willing to END HER LIFE because she's single. This is the issue I was addressing about life and marriage. So, please post something to her right now, and we can argue later.
...dude, you are 100% right about people being in shitty marriages. I mean, I know loads of people on this board, and loads of people in the wider world, are in crappy marriages that they would love to get the hell out of.
I know I should appreciate my freedom and love myself etc etc. I DO love myself. In fact, my attitude is worryingly more likely to veer over to the narc side, as in "I'm a great girlfriend. Why the FUCK am I still alone at 42?" instead of having insecurity or low self esteem issues. I really don't have those. I think that's partly why I was D&D - because he realised it would take a huge amount of effort to intimidate me and break me down. I simply don't allow it. So I don't have any self-hate issues or whatever. I am just ABSOLUTELY FUCKING FURIOUS at life/god/the universe for leaving me in this situation year after year. Why can I not just be a normal woman with a good husband and a couple of sweet kids? I have seriously had enough of the never-ending freedom, the constant aloneness, the living alone, the coming home alone to an empty apartment night after night.
We as humans are built for intimacy. A life lived alone is simply no life at all.
But WHO is that woman? Who is the normal woman with a good husband and couple of sweet kids? That's a Norman Rockwell painting, not a life.
You think YOU are absolutely fucking furious???? People look at me and think, there's a normal woman with a good husband and a couple of sweet kids... I cannot COUNT the number of times women have said to me in public... awwww, you're so LUCKY!!
Lucky??? No, I am a hurt woman with a good but fucked up husband who is dumping all his childhood trauma on ME, and can make ignoring me and/or criticizing me an ART FORM, and struggles with alcohol abuse that spiraled off the charts the last few years... leaving me prime hunting ground for a goddamn narc to come along and give me hope and promises and "love" and he was going to make it all right, and then he fucking RAPED me too... on top of the rest of this shitpile!! How is that fucking fair??
Those sweet kids? That I have to take to counseling because my oldest has thrown himself into walls, screaming that he wants to die? And one who cries himself sick because of the fighting? Who hid in a closet with his hands over his ears? You think anyone knows about that? We are the Perfect Family. And I wonder if they will grow up and be abusive husbands because they've seen it at home?
I have dealt with a rage so deep it makes me dizzy. I DIDN'T SIGN UP FOR THIS SHIT.
But that doesn't change anything. You are right, we are made for intimacy. For me, I've learned that I was made for spiritual intimacy.. WITH God. For me, it's Jesus. Sounds airy fairy and like crap to you, I'm sure... but it's solid truth for me.
I found my healing through faith, and believe me, I have screamed at God, I have walked out of the middle of church services, full of bitterness... but He's hung on for some reason. I am beginning to learn all over again, or maybe for the first time, to trust Him. Not men, not friends, not things... just Him. And the bitterness is slipping away. Changes are happening in my life... my husband is changing without me doing anything... hope is possible.
Disclaimer here: My husband does not have a PD, though I wondered for a while. My husband is an alcoholic. This makes him act in some pretty damaging ways, but that's not who he really is. This is not denial, ladies, this is the result of serious counseling and Al Anon and a lot of stuff, so please don't think I'm a hypocrite. I'm still finding my way on this one... but the man I fell so deeply in love with because I felt so isolated, now that dude is a Narcissistic predator, with a capital N.
I hope I didn't break any rules with this post... I know not everyone is Christian or wants to be. I'm just sharing my experience. I believe, in MY case, God had to bring me to the end of myself and my dreams to bring me to Him, and now he wants to give me happiness... I was just going about it all wrong.
doesn't sound airy fairy or crap to me at all. There have been moments that I have felt a deep peace and the presence of a loving and powerful Being.
I am so, so sorry that you have had to deal with such heartbreak. Your description of your kids' unhappiness makes me cry. No, not one fucking bit of it is fair. I am so glad that there is light at the end of the tunnel with AlAnon and AA though - and that you feel supported and strengthened by spirit. The ability to have and feel that connection must be comforting. I've gone past the ability to trust in god I have to say. I don't even bother talking to him/her/it any more because I'm just ignored. I totally relate to you leaving church in a fury. I won't go anywhere near a church these days. Nor will I go to weddings or any other family events any more. Enough of the watching of the entire room full of couples. I've already missed the christenings of my niece and nephew because I would have been the only fucking single person in the church. I don't give a crap if my brother is mad at me for not going. I doubt the babies themselves give much of a toss who's there and who isn't, so they're not going to hold it against me!
I really, really hope that your husband gets sober and is able to process his childhood stuff without visiting it on his family all the time. I didn't grow up with alcoholism but I've read a lot about it. My uncle was an alcoholic but that only really affected his immediate family, not his extended one.
And there's no issue with mentioning god I'm sure - I mean, the whole AA movement is founded on the notion of handing stuff over to a higher power, where there is an addiction and a recognition that we can't change someone. To my mind our addictions to our respective Ns, and our memories of them, and our total inability to "change" them, is exactly the kind of stuff that AA was designed to help with, and a higher power is a big part of that.
Please don't take what I'm about to say as the pot calling the kettle black. First...think about it, if the asshat is showing his colors now...you're lucky he didn't call.
SECONDLY and most important. Are you completely healed? I'm 42 also. Do you truly want to be happy? Happiness, contentment and peace does not come from another person, it comes from you.
I don't know you personally - but I think it would be safe to say that if you're still on this board, you still haven't resolved a lot of the issues that are going on with you.
I don't know how else to say it, but maybe you shouldn't think about dating right now?
There are things you can do with friends, family or yourself that can bring you happiness without bringing in someone you know nothing about who can as we all know potentially harm you.
Down the road, when you are more in tune with yourself, your judgement will be better, you'll be stronger, you'll know the red flags much better.
I think you need to stay away from the dating scene for a while, you have nothing to lose and the potential for gain is significant.
Hang in there sweetie, it will get better...
Hugs.
I have everything to lose. I have my fertility to lose. For all I know, it's already lost. I have been doing things with friends and family for YEARS in between break ups and abandonments, and I AM SICK OF IT.
I swore to myself that I was not going through another Christmas as the only single person (and the eldest) of a family of six sibling.
I have been more than ready to date and to marry for about eight years now.
NOTHING can bring me happiness right now other than knowing I'm with a man who 100% wants to be with me, who is 100% right for me and whom I can rely on 100%. NOTHING.
but you don't have your fertility to lose. I lost mine at 23, before I was even married. In other words, I never had it. I had a disease. But it didn't end my world. I'm still a Mom.
I agree with all who have replied. The grass isn't always greener. And you have lots of healing and soul-searching and education to do before you heal.
Forget guys for now and focus on you. We all think you're worth your own effort.
I am 42 as well, and I became infertile after 20 years of pain and disease....but I am STILL a mother. I was so blessed to adopt an amazing little boy 5 years ago....I followed the birthmom and him thru all the doctor (in utero)visits and ultrasounds and was in the delivery room when he was born. Took him home at 2 days old. My life did not end when my fertlity was taken from me....but I did need to accept and grieve the loss and open my heart to a new way. I would not change one thing (and I have had 5 abdominal surgeies, cut hip to hip), because it was that path that I had to take to get my son.....
During this last 6 months I have learned so much and I am still learning....but the main thing I strive for is to have peace in my soul...true peace....and that means that I can't allow outside factors, esp. people to have an effect on me anymore. I can only control me and the way I react to things in my life. True peace means surrendering....no longer looking to others to make you whole, to heal you, to rescue you. All that I have ever needed has been inside of myself. I am strong, I am funny, I am loving and caring, I am a good person.....but somewhere along the line I forgot that and allowed other people to take a bit of my light a little at at a time. But now I am shining again and learning how to set boundaries to stay healthy....I truly am in recovery and will not date for at least a year, period. I need this time to really sort out the funk of why I am a magnet for these toxic people and heal my heart and soul. I pray that you allow yourself the same....no man can do that for you and you WILL be a mother one day...do this for your baby...heal and you will attract what you want in your life. Blessings....
Thanks for sharing your adoption story. Wonderful. My daughter is 8 and we adopted her from Central America. She was in the care of her foster mom from the time she was 2 days old until we adopted her at 4 months. And she is the light of our lives. Doensn't mean I haven't had lots of other issues to deal with - my story says it all - but my daughter has helped keep me focused and sane these past 11 months. I love her so much.
I just love hearing about adoption making families!! I am so happy you have your daughter in your life now! My son was local here in Florida and I still send the birthmom a letter and pictures every year on his birthday... Where in Central America did you adopt from? Thank you for your words Morty! Have a beautiful Friday!
I never got to meet my daughter's birthmom. I have pictures of her though. I wish we could meet her.
My daughter is from Guatemala. She will happily tell you, "I'm a Native American Mayan."
=)
thank you too for the lovely post and the sterling support. You have no idea how much it means to me to hear that others believe that I can still be a mother. No idea. I'm starting to cry now because of all the love on this board.....
XXX
You are already a Mom in your heart, so God will make it so for you someday. Where there is a will, there is a way. Its just not neccessarily OUR way at times. God Bless you. May your dreams come true, in their good time.
Believe me!! I had every obstacle in the world and when the time was right, my son and I found each other!! Just continue on your path of healing. I think it is good to feel angry!! Feel it!! Dissect it!! Shout it!!! But don't let it beat you!! Feel every emotion you have too so that your heart is open and raw to slowly put back together, in a healthy way. YOU CAN DO THIS!! I know how much it hurts!
Thinking of you! xoxo
Sherry
Funsize, I know exactly what
Statistics
Yes, true.
cause everyone has its own journey to go
Hear, Here
Expectations
we really have to learn to go with the flow
Hugs
can I add something?
No one said it's NOT
and also...
Huh?
Better off, no one wants to sue you,
An issue of context
Well Better off,
First of all, RIGHT THIS
I don't really wish to argue with you, that's my point.
Better off...
But WHO is that woman? Who
Nope,
Funsize...
I have everything to lose.
Funsize - I don't mean to diminish your pain
I agree Morty....
Sher and Your Little Boy
Wow Morty!!
Birthmom
Sherbear,
HLS,
You can Funsize!!