Dumb Question, but...

They know but they hide it from everyone, including themselves. I remember right at the start getting a hint of a sob story about "why couldn't he find a man?" and "why didn't he get on with people?" Erm...cos you treat them like crap, perhaps?

In my case, the N had some level of self awareness.But since he got away with doing terrible things, he continued to do them. -He knew and admitted he lied to his wife. -He admitted having the emotional level of an 8 year old (when his house wouldn't sell and he felt sad about the financial strain--not 'stressed' like a normal person would be but more like having a pity party for himself as a child would) -He admitted to behaving like a Jekyl and Hyde. -He admitted he stole food from a grocery store only because there was too long of a line-up and he didn't feel like waiting. When his wife suggested their daughter will likely end up with a partner who is like her father (the N)as girls often do, he sadly stated, he hoped she would end up with someone more "normal". These statements were all offered by the N and were not in response to anyone accusing him of this. At least not in my presence. Perhaps others did accuse him of all these wrong doings over the course of his life and he grew to accept this is the way he is. But, like a small child, will constantly test the boundaries and rules to see how far they can push people. I do know one thing. They don't want to stop doing what they do. They somehow can't. They are stuck. I believe the N I knew, only admitted to these wrong-doings and faults as a means to gain more sympathy, tolerance, and acceptance from people without caring how emotionally draining this is to others.

that is a darn good question to ask, my Narc knew, on some weird level, he was NOT NORMAL, a pint of ice cream hit me on the head from his freezer, {he was a major hoarder} he laughed, and then said" I'm nuts aren't I." He never did put his arm around me or ask if I was OK. Then another time he said to me, you need to find another guy and i need to live by myself," so he knew something was not right with him but would NEVER admit it. his brother told me once that he , NARC, thought he was right and everyone else was crazy, is brother said he was a psychology 101 textbook case, so HE knew how damaged his brother was and told me he even tried to get him into an institution, so that tells you a lot.It was weird for a few times Narc sounded normal when he would let slip nice comments about me that had nothing to do with sex. like my perception, or looking younger for my age, but they were few and far in between. SO yes to some extent HE does know.

Please. If they thought that what they did was normal, then, why do they lie all the time? Why do they cover their tracks? Why do they 'block the kick?' (Meaning spread slander about the victim before she tells what he did to her, make her out to be a crazy psycho-b*tch spreading slander about him.) And, all this phoney 'self-awareness' about their fears, etc. It's crap. They are flinging crap around. This just happens to stick. Be vigilant. You will notice your N throws a lot of stuff out there. Some does not pull on your heartstrings so it passes by. Human nature does not focus on suggestions which do no interest us, so we forget. When mine was becoming fragmented & disorganized when I was leaving him -- the notions, ideas, theories of psychology, motivations, rewrites of his/our personal history were spewing forth in great waves (rather similar to vomiting). I wasn't biting. He began manufacturing more & more suggestions, grasping at straws, anything to hook me into staying, anything to get me to agree to stay. It was so terrifying. I saw him for what he was, a child screaming for the mother not to leave him at daycare. (Mine is a borderline, as well as, narcissist & anti-social.) But, the moment the mother turns her back, the kid is off & running to the other children & the toys. Meanwhile, the mother feels so guilty on that commute to work. It's all a game to a N. Even "remorse" or "self-awareness" is a game. Mine was a voracious reader of psychology & self-help texts. My was "doing the work" at ashrams. Mine wanted to be a "good man." Mine was striving. Mine chastized me for being weak & giving up the work on the marriage. For being superficial about our marriage vows. Oh, the manipulation was extraordinary. Even after I left him, mine would send e-mails about his broken heart. His therapy to help him recover from my cruel abandoment of him. Also send e-mails about what he had learned in therapy which would now make our relationship perfect. Always neglecting to mention, there was a NW. I was locked out of the house I co-owned. He needed his privacy to recover from my cruel abandoment. He never mentioned that I was locked out of the house because he did not want me to walk in one day & find him there with his NW. NW was a psychiatrist! Therapy was a condition of their relationship. She contacted me when she left him. Told me all. Mine can act phoney self-awareness so well that he fooled a shrink for 10 months! I wonder about the therapist he was seeing professionally? That is really frightening. If you are really involved with a psychopath -- you have no idea the layer-upon-layer of deceit. If one realized just how dangerous these men are, one would never for an instant miss him or even entertain the briefest exchange of words. Any contact may be just enough to get their hooks in again because their methods are so refined. That's all they do -- manipulate others to extract that which they seek in that moment.

My narc knew there was something wrong with him. He hinted at it more than once, even saying to me right at the start "just wait till you really get to know me". I remember feeling so sorry for him and I was determined to be kind to him and try and 'help' him!! I can see now it was a warning of sorts. Mine was always trying to work himself out, but I guess he was just looking in the wrong places for answers. Instead of looking in books about spirituality, he should've been looking inside himself - apparently that's impossible for an N though, they're likely to self implode if they try it. The way I see it, they spend so much energy running from themselves, everything gets twisted up inside them. They are just one big, tangled mess of avoidance and lies.

We will never fully understand how an N views the world, but it has to be similar to this, lol. ˙lol 'sıɥʇ oʇ ɹɐlıɯıs ǝq oʇ sɐɥ ʇı ʇnq 'plɹoʍ ǝɥʇ sʍǝıʌ N uɐ ʍoɥ puɐʇsɹǝpun ʎllnɟ ɹǝʌǝu llıʍ ǝM stay~strong

Briseis said "If you got inside a Narcs head and experienced life through the Narc's eyes for an hour or so, you would not see the same world that YOU normally see." How I wish I could see through my narcs eyes for an hour! That would be soooooo revealing. Mine has an awareness that there is something not 'normal' about the way he is but it seems like he can not allow himself to face what that really is. After talking to him last night (yes, I know, probably bad idea but he reached out to me and that seldom happens), I'm beginning to see it now as a complete fear on his part that he continues to do what he does and not necessarily because he prefers to be the way he is, which I had previously thought since he SEEMED perfectly fine with it after moving on. In the beginning of our relationship he did seem to really believe it could be different with me and there were times throughout when it looked like he really tried (as much as a narc can), but was simply unable to do it because of his disorder. He has expressed some shame and remorse during a few exchanges we've had that do seem genuine, so on some level, I think he knows what he does is 'wrong' but feels powerless to stop himself from doing it over and over... It is hard for me not to want to help him understand it because sometimes he has sounded like he wished he could be different. Last night was one of those times and I was tempted to try, but didn't. It was the first 'meaningful' conversation we've had in a long time and I gave him enough to think about by what I did say without even mentioning disorders - lol! Journey on...

Nope. They don't "have to know". In fact, they are convinced they are just fine and that everyone else is fruit loops. You see the world from within your own perspective, which is essentially "normal". You see the world through a pair of "glasses" that have been crafted, over the course of your life, by your experiences combined with your NORMAL psychology. A Narc sees the world through a pair of "glasses" too. Narcs experience the same day to day life the Normals experience, but for them, their ABNORMAL psychology perverts how they perceive reality. Narcissism, or NPD, is a mental disorder. They may not hear voices or think they are Jesus, but they are deeply disturbed when it comes to interpersonal relationships. If you got inside a Narcs head and experienced life through the Narc's eyes for an hour or so, you would not see the same world that YOU normally see. If you want a view into the Narc's world, read some of Sam Vaknin's stuff. He is a Narc, or a psychopath, and just googling his name will bring you millions of hits. He writes about NPD and what it feels like, and what it means for you. It is chilling :( and very, very educational. He's actually helped a lot of people, the ones who can get past what he IS. So wondering if you Narc really KNOWS what he is doing is wrong is like wondering if your dog really understands algebra. The narc doesn't CARE if what he's doing is wrong. He knows YOU believe it is wrong, so he disguises it, hides it at first, puts on an excellent charming show at first. Eventually, the Mask is off and you are face to face with someone who LOOKS human, acts sort of human but is, in truth, a Pretender.

I think they do know they are fucked up. During my D & D. He said he needs to be alone. He said when he's 50 he will be worse. I also think when they are in the honeymoon period the are trying, they believe this time is different. They are so disordered that sharing and caring creeps them out. I think they try but fail. It's goes along with everything in their lives. They tend to be unsuccessful at work and functioning out of a routine. The way they cope is to deny, and try again. They really are empty and it's very sad. For us we can't fix what is broke. Also no question is dumb. :) Have an ideal day

I think the really intelligent ones are self aware to some extent they have the ability to make comparisons to others and make the correlation that other people don't have the straines/failed relationships that they do they know people are unhappy and it has to do with them but its the narcissism that keeps them from making a change. They think we should change and if you can't change or don't want to change or contine to meet their needs then they say next? We are simply paper plates to them. Why invest in dishes? then you would have to wash them. With paper plates just throw it away when its used and get a new one.