D&D as "closure"??

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#1 May 5 - 9AM
Susan32
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D&D as "closure"??

At Yelp LA, there's a discussion titled "How to break up." Some people are suggesting that it's OK to be a total jerk when breaking up with someone. They're basically saying that brutality is OK, so there will be "no false sense of hope." Certainly,one can break up without a "false sense of hope" without there being devaluing and discarding? Are we in such a narcissistic society that D&Ding is now considered a normal, adult way of ending relationships?

I wanted closure by congratulating my ex-N on his engagement, and saying "better happy with her, than unhappy with me"--and we'd go happily our separate ways, but my ex-N threw a tantrum anyhow.

What do you think?

May 11 - 9AM
narcnarcwhosthere (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Susan32........here's what i think..........

i think that instead of endlessly TALKING ABOUT Wittgenstein, you should LISTEN to a quote from him...... 'IF A LION COULD TALK, WE COULD NOT UNDERSTAND HIM' same with a NARC or a PSYCHOPATH....
May 11 - 9AM (Reply to #32)
Susan32
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Good quote!

Yeah, and lions tend to see everyone else as a MEAL... good insight...
May 6 - 9AM
narcnarcwhosthere (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

i couldn't get any closure....

i couldn't even get a deathbed confession or apology from him....he was a withholding cruel motherf*cker right up to his last breath...... the last time i saw him anywhere near lucid, i was walking out of his hospice room....the day he was bitching about the dryness of his mashed potatoes...he was sitting up in bed..watching Food Network....and i turned around and said.. 'mike..life is short...shorter than you know...do you have ANYTHING at all you want to say to me?'..... and he just stared at the tv and said.....'no..not at this time'.... no..not at this time...or anytime.....ever........
May 6 - 9AM (Reply to #27)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Life is short

My ex-N had a constant attitude of negativity. He also made a big deal about me "not knowing the REAL him" (he claims the REAL him is a happy person, but the FAKE him is the one who hurt my feelings, because that was his role) Compartmentalizing is no way to live. His constant attitude of negativity--no way to live.
May 6 - 1PM (Reply to #28)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

sure it is

Compartmentalizing is no way to live. His constant attitude of negativity--no way to live. Sure it is, for a NON HUMAN, Soul-sucking, EVIL predator. They are ALL like that and 'live' that way among us for years! ~~~~~~~~~ Moving Forward: Coaching for Victims Pathologicals Feelings buried alive never die. - Alice Miller
May 6 - 3PM (Reply to #29)
sanctuary
sanctuary's picture

Your replies often make me

Your replies often make me think of the show V. I haven't seen the new one but the old one. They look just like us until the mask slips and BAM!! Evil slimy NOT HUMAN serpents! And they have been among us for yrs....
May 6 - 3PM (Reply to #30)
Susan32
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Funny,I brought up "V" in another post

And yes, I've seen the OLD one with the great Marc "Beastmaster" Singer. My ex-N mentioned having a sister... could she possibly be Lady Diana? My ex-N's friends AND COLLEAGUES/SOCIAL EQUALS thought he was inhuman... I was the last to have my eyes opened, because I was smitten. It ticked off my ex-N when I told him he was human. That was enough to offend him.
May 5 - 4PM
enoughalready
enoughalready's picture

closure

I feel we will never have closure w/narcs because I they want to keep us as back-up supply just in case the other supplies figure them out. My XN said he will never let me go. When he last txted me 12 weeks ago, I told him to let go and move on w/ his life and he txted back-"no can do". We are objects placed on a shelf until he has use for us, and when he does, he'll find a way to get in touch. Narcs are pathological liars and are masters of deception. U will never have closure w/ these creatures. U will have close it yourself w/ complete NC. I still cry intermittently, but as weeks go by, things become clear in your mind.
May 5 - 5PM (Reply to #10)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Would've loved an apology

For me, that's all that I needed. I wanted an apology, not a romance, and perhaps not even friendship. A sincere "I'm sorry, I really hurt you" would've been the perfect closure. For the past decade, I've done quite well without him.
May 9 - 10PM (Reply to #21)
running
running's picture

Apology

They aren't capable of apologizing...they are always right!
May 9 - 10PM (Reply to #22)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

That's the tragedy

I was the one CONSTANTLY apologizing.. and I bluntly told him,"I'm sick and tired of apologizing." It got to the point that I mocked his attitude of me always being wrong, him always being right. I said it in a sing-songy voice,"You're always right, I'm always wrong." I was holding up the mirror to his own idiocy.
May 10 - 6AM (Reply to #23)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

mirroring

mirroring them has no effect in fact it just fuels them more ~~~~~~~~~ Moving Forward: Coaching for Victims Pathologicals Feelings buried alive never die. - Alice Miller
May 10 - 9PM (Reply to #24)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Well, he did back off...

Didn't seem to fuel mine. ESPECIALLY when I did a cold, bloodless autopsy of his actions and motives. Calling him a lying, arrogant bully put him on the defensive... I was no longer defending myself. When I told him that he enjoyed seeing me upset and angry, and that I wasn't being upset and angry because of that... it freaked him out a little. The empathy Narcs use to their advantage can also be used against them.
May 10 - 10PM (Reply to #25)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

why bother

The empathy Narcs use to their advantage can also be used against them You're not getting it! why BOTHER using it against them? it's like spitting in the wind they don't care they are ROCKS ~~~~~~~~~ Moving Forward: Coaching for Victims Pathologicals Feelings buried alive never die. - Alice Miller
May 5 - 10PM (Reply to #11)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

no apology - ever

before I knew about Cluster B Personality Disorders I even asked outright for some apologies from old Ns - even years later they lied, D&D'd and smeared me but NO APOLOGY or ACCOUNTABILITY ever! ~~~~~~~~~ Moving Forward: Coaching for Victims Pathologicals Feelings buried alive never die. - Alice Miller
May 5 - 10PM (Reply to #15)
Janet
Janet's picture

I got an apology. It means

I got an apology. It means nothing, to him or to me. His actions were cruel and they never changed. He apologized non-stop then kept doing the same thing. His last apology was just some more words. Peace. J

Peace. J

May 6 - 3AM (Reply to #18)
Susan32
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And you call yourself a "nice guy"???

My ex-N called himself a "nice guy",despite his repeated cruel actions. He claimed his cruelty was "teaching me a lesson." He'd snobbily ask me the next day after bullying me to tears,"Did you learn your lesson?" By the end, I bluntly told him,"I'm not as trusting as I used to be;I'm hurt... and by your actions, people would think you're a dishonest, arrogant jerk" (of course,when I used the word "jerk",he'd prissily snap "don't talk that way!") Sometimes I wondered what his colleagues thought when he'd publicly humiliate me. Did they think I was crazed and driven by emotions, or did they think he was the real offender, reducing me to tears in front of everyone? All he ever said was,"I'm sorry you feel that way"--very cold and detached... NEVER "I'm sorry I hurt you." Did he ever learn HIS lesson??? WTF???
May 6 - 10AM (Reply to #19)
enoughalready
enoughalready's picture

janet

Your Xn sounds like mine except I'm sure your XN had a way higher IQ. Mine was really stupid!
May 6 - 10AM (Reply to #20)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Epitome of Mediocrity

My XN thought he was incredibly intellectual... but my friends saw him as a player, manipulator, evil incarnate, inhuman, a bully... and not particularly bright. Mysteriously, his colleagues and age-mates AVOIDED him as if he were a leper. Now I know why. People always say,"See how a man treats his social inferiors, that's a key to how he'll treat you." In his case,it applies equally to how he treated his equals--with contempt. He "punished" a colleague for being "inappropriate" by ignoring him (the colleague's "offense" was calling him by his first name instead of his surname) My XN THOUGHT he was brilliant. Back in '96, he claimed he was writing a book about Wittgenstein and St. Augustine. The deadline was in 2006... and it hasn't happened. He's only been published 3 times in the past decade. My XN thought he was a brilliant philosopher... everybody else thought he was the epitome of mediocrity, and not that smart. A legend in his own mind.
May 5 - 11PM (Reply to #17)
enoughalready
enoughalready's picture

apologies

He always ended up saying" sorry" only to do it again. He was all about words -all empty with no action to back it up. It meant nothing to me.
May 5 - 10PM (Reply to #16)
quietude (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

me too

I got a few apologies, but he'd say it and do the same crap over and over again. An apology to them is just something to placate you just enough to get back in your good graces...just to start the whole process of screwing you over again.
May 5 - 10PM (Reply to #12)
loveofmylife
loveofmylife's picture

Apologies

Its crazy isn't it? that's all I really wanted too....for him to at least acknowledge that he hurt me tremendously over and over. It is incomprehensible that you can politely point out the hurt to them asking for at least an acknowledgement that what they did was out of line and they can't even admit it, let alone apologize for it, or stop doing it after they know it hurts you. That is the weirdest thing I've even encountered! Even a child will apologize if you ask them to - in most cases! But it gets back to....in their mind they wouldn't have done unless they felt they were justified in doing it...so there is nothing to apologize about, because it was intentional!
May 8 - 7PM (Reply to #13)
agnesmurphy17
agnesmurphy17's picture

Apologize Never

My Dear! YOU are the one who owes him an apology! YOU FORCED him to do whatever it is YOU do not like. And IF YOU feel hurt, then that's YOUR issue. But it's got NOTHING to do with him. He did not INTEND to hurt YOU therefore he's got nothing to apologize for. Besides, as my N used to say, things said in anger don't count! I learned all this from my N. My philosophy professor N. Can an man educated in philosophy, psychology & rhetoric F**K with a mind! Yep! And, Susan32--your N is CRAZY! Just plain NUTS. Stop trying to make sense. There is no sense. Just nonsense. That's why his colleagues don't talk to him. He's a jerk.
May 8 - 7PM (Reply to #14)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Crazy cra-cray

My ex-N makes Snooki and the self-absorbed Kardashians look SANE... LOL... You're right with "stop trying to make sense"---by the end, when I caught him in his lies, and I was NO LONGER CRYING--he was making word salads. All they needed was Thousand Island Dressing. Besides,it took him SEVEN DAMN YEARS to get a master's degree. My pals are always amazed by the length of it* *Pun intended.
May 5 - 9AM
quietude (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

closure

Unfortunately, that's the mind-set of many low-lives out there. Rather than man (or woman)up, and handle things properly, they'd rather take the COWARD'S way out. My ex even admitted in his D&D letters that he knows he's being a coward by doing this. Agreed! Anyone who does this at the end of the relationship is probably a good indicator of what was going on DURING the relationship as well...which in the end, as terrible and cold as it is...the person D&D'd is better off without a wanker like that in their life anyway.
May 5 - 9AM (Reply to #2)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Alternate ending... I almost dumped my ex-N...

My ex-N was acting tense and nervous all during my junior year. I'd ask him questions, just to probe him. I told him I'd stop lunching with him if he found me boring and didn't like it. He denied it. But he begged me to stay (I was one of the few people who tolerated him,his colleagues seemed to avoid him for some reason) In my junior year,he could've said,"I have a serious girlfriend in LA"... I would've stopped lunching with him... I would've been disappointed... but there would've been trust, honesty, and RESPECT. That would've been nice.
May 5 - 12PM (Reply to #3)
quietude (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

susan

I know it, and that's normal logic you're thinking of...but we know that doesn't apply to an N. They lie, live in fantasy-land, they don't DO or think about consequences. It's all about what they can get, at any given moment to fill up their supply, no matter what it means to anyone else involved. My ex went to great lengths and expense to move here 3 times, all just to be dumped by him 3 times. The last time he was here...yes, acting VERY detached from me...I wanted to scream, why the hell are you here then?? Make NO sense whatsoever to us...which is good. Means our brain is functioning just fine!
May 5 - 3PM (Reply to #4)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

That's why he was called "different"

One of his colleagues referred to him as "different"... but didn't want to go any further. (I am still friends with this colleague) The whole subject of my ex-N made him uncomfortable, and this guy wasn't easily discomfited. What's funny is that when I ran into the girlfriend from LA, when my ex-N brought her to a concert. We talked cordially, it was very nice... but he was the one to make the swift retreat (in front of all his colleagues), with her following far behind. He was acting like a boy who had been caught, not a normal man introducing his fiancee. Never seen him move so fast...
May 6 - 10AM (Reply to #5)
spinning
spinning's picture

"Different"

spinning Mine is seen as "different" too. To most he's considered "different" in not a good way. To the very very few "friends" he has he's a "shining star." I once thought so, as I believed everyone was so down on him because he was "different," in a non-conformist, confident way because I, too, am a little "different." Was confident, too. No longer. Lately his best friend is a 13-year old boy for reasons I cannot say for fear of too revealing but reasons he believes are virtuous/mentoring. This athletic mentoring, he says, is a "calling." He began with me as very worldly, speaking five different languages, reciting poetry, declaring undying love, insisting on opening doors for me, etc. and within a year it's hanging up the phone on me when I bring up inconsistencies in his character/behavior and his poor treatment of me, i.e. saying he'll call right back and three hours later I get a call; saying we'll meet at 4 p.m. and at 5 to 4 calling to say he'll be "a little late" and by 6 p.m. he'll roll around. I finally told him that if he ever hung up on me again it would be the last time, and for a while he did not hang up on me. He would simply not call at all. I am currently being "frozen out" for expressing something that distresses me about the relationship with the boy on Monday. He hung up when I was in mid-sentence. My head is spinning. I feel responsible, though no "true gentleman" would behave the way he does. I've been involved with this changeling for six years. Seen the rages. Felt the fear. Six precious years I cannot get back. It was only a year ago I discovered this site when I was trying to make sense of behavior patterns I noticed. It was like validation at last, and when I began taking steps to stop being a supply (I make a living as a writer and have always kept journals) he noted a difference in me and when I was in the shower he read by journal about my discoveries! He slammed the door so hard things fell off the wall. I was crazy and disoriented for weeks over that...ended up apologizing, etc. Even my thoughts weren't safe. It's embarassing how I chased and apologized. In November, he had a fit about something and walked out and that was it. I hunkered under, kept reading the board and went NC for three weeks until he shows up at my house at 5 a.m. on a December morning right at the three week mark (it takes three weeks to make/break a habit and he knows these things) and scared me silly. I had made such progress. I live alone in a rural wooded area and when I didn't answer the door he knocked on my window. Make a long story short I let him back into my life and this is the payoff now. Lost, crazy, guilty, destroyed, alone, confused, empty. Any advice would be most appreciated. Sorry for the long post.

spinning

May 11 - 8AM (Reply to #8)
sanctuary
sanctuary's picture

Better Off is right... No

Better Off is right... No contact. If he shows up again and won't leave, call the police. The stuff with the 13 yr old sounds very disturbing and wrong. If there's any one you can anonymously alert to the situation, CPS, school, parent, please do it. My ExN read my journals as well. Nothing is sacred to them. He tried to tell me he had an "epiphany" and all the sudden he understood what I'd been trying to tell him for yrs...BS!! Still didn't make any difference because they never change!! Confessed to reading them a few days later when he saw I wasn't buying his crap. If I were you, I'd consider getting a big dog right about now. My dogs can sense how I feel about people and react accordingly. Even if it only keeps him from coming around.