The Definition of Codependency

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Mar 20 - 8PM (Reply to #44)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

itsallaboutmenow...

How are you dear...I am so sorry I'm trying to keep up with all the posts... If you don't mind...do you think you could send me the name of the book and the author in pvt message? Thanks!
Mar 18 - 4PM (Reply to #40)
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

This is me too. My Mother

This is me too. My Mother cared way too much about what others thought. The dynamic with my mother was shame based. That well if you did certain things you were bad. She may not have meant it this way but thats the way it seemed. They controlled alot of my environment. I think my Mother was so worried that I would screw up and do something that might cause her shame that she simply controlled my environment that way she could control her own shame. I have recently learned that my Grandmother her mother whom I never knew she died before I was born was quite the control freak and even suffered from OCD behaviors. EX. My daughter has labeled gifted/talented. She doesnt miss an opportunity to tell someone about that. I know you are thinking isnt that what Grandparents do? well yes but mother does it in more of a way of see what good people we are! I dont know how to explain it and let me tell you she doesnt miss opportunity to mentions when someone elses kid has screwed up. I feel kinda like Im painting my Mom as mommy dearest which is absolutely not the case but My Parents were way to caught in what other people thought and being "Good Parents" to everyone. I believe we are a shame based culture. I tell you what it will be a cold day in hell before I ever say again to my daughter you should be ashamed when she mis behaves. I have made it point in the last couple of months of telling when she mis behaves that Im disappointed in the behavior not in her.
Mar 18 - 5PM (Reply to #41)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Shame

When I told my parents I was smitten with the ex-Psych professor, they told me they were ashamed of me. I basically retreated inwardly. So, by the time the final D&D happened 4 years later, my friends knew every gruesome detail (or had SEEN it, the ex-P was too lazy to keep his mask on-it's not as if he concealed his nastiness behind closed doors or his colleagues thought he was Mr. Awesome)... and my family knew nothing about it. I'm still ashamed about it and I've been silent about it over the past 11 years. I was in so much pain at the time it was difficult to articulate. I still wonder how I managed to graduate and get good grades my senior year, that final D&D was so devastating. I still haven't talked about it with my parents, that's why I come here. "I'm disappointed in the behavior not in her"-During the final D&D, when I declared my love, the ex-P would keep on telling me how disappointed he was in me. It was just an odd reaction to a declaration of love. My response was "Huh?" I was profoundly baffled. "I love you" "I'm disappointed" Uh, what? Can I have a translator? What the hell is going on??? The ex-P would keep telling me how he was offended, disappointed, embarrassed... and I'd be begging for an explanation. *ANY* explanation. He'd do the "I'm not angry, I'm disappointed" routine. After the final D&D, I did what you do... I told the ex-P I was disappointed in the behavior he had shown, NOT in him. It's like something didn't click. I told him I had made mistakes, so had he. I had taken responsibility for my behavior, so should he. Yes, here I was at 22, lecturing a 36 year old on human imperfection. I haven't "come out" about my experience because of shame. I can understand why there are middle-aged men who don't come out about being abused when they were children till they're much older. It's the shame, even if it wasn't your fault.
Mar 18 - 5PM (Reply to #42)
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

Why were they ashamed?

Why were they ashamed? Because he was so much older?
Mar 18 - 5PM (Reply to #43)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

The reasons...

They saw his disorder better than I did. To add to that, BOTH of my mother's parents were Narcs. He was 15 years my senior, a professor... and they saw his narcissism. All I can say is I'm glad I never got as far as dating and/or being sexually involved with him. Yes, we'd go out to lunch in the coffee shop, go to concerts/lectures, talk on the phone... but it never got to be serious dating. Or casual dating. I never met him off-campus. The ex-P was only a decade younger than my parents... and he has the maturity of my year old nephew. Except with my nephew it's understandable.
Mar 18 - 3PM (Reply to #37)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Its all about me now...

Thank you...when are we gonna start the revolution? LOL
Mar 20 - 1PM (Reply to #38)
It'sAllAboutMeNow (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Michelle115

Shoot... let's get this thing started now. It only takes one person to start the change. Imagine what all of the women in this forum could do coming from the different areas we are located. lol We'd give 'em hell!!!
Mar 20 - 8PM (Reply to #39)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Drafting the petition

It should be ready by mornin...LOL
Mar 18 - 9AM
Happy1
Happy1's picture

SOI

Sums it up for me. 8-)
Mar 18 - 9AM
truetotruth
truetotruth's picture

SOI

You are making your way sweetie :) You are looking at you and fixing you. I haven't read any posts where anyone is upset but maybe they just arent there yet? Maybe they aren't co dependant they just got brain washed. Ive been reading your posts and I am pretty sure I have some codependency issues...however its deep and hard to look at certain things....I am know there are demons I am not yet strong enough to face.... I guess what I am saying is that we all come to our own rivers when we get there...you are at the edge of a beautiful one looking in and getting to know the reflection...I am almost to my reflection but not quite ready to peer in.....some have just survived a tsunami...they arent going any where near the water for now. You are doing amazingly well I am proud of your dedication and willingness to look inside...Do you know how brave that is??? Thank you soi love and light
Mar 18 - 10AM (Reply to #28)
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

t2t

Yes! I know for a fact in the beginning I wanted to hear nothing about how I had any hand in this mess. I would have none of it. I guess I see that in others I see people asking why why why I know the reason the difference is they need to know and I can't know it for them you see the codependency coming out in me lol
Mar 18 - 2PM (Reply to #33)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Sickofit

I did also want to comment that as of late...it seems like things are really connecting for you... That is something to be incredibly proud of... I wish you continued growth and enlightenment. Its funny how one day everything just seems to click and when it does, it gets so much easier to release a lot of the crap that keeps us in such an emotional bind. Hugs!
Mar 18 - 4PM (Reply to #34)
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

All the pieces have finally

All the pieces have finally come together. The truama bonding, the codependency, the repetition compulsion, and the shame based approach my mother took with me. Oh and did I mention the triangulation. I never realized until now that I have triangulated in every relationship. It has always been a case of my having met someone else before I would leave the other. The only time I have not been in a relationship was when the Narc dumped round one. Then I found another boyfriend and yes while it wasnt a terribly serious relationship I then met my husband and then broke it of with the other buy. I even have exhibited triangulation in my professional relationships. This crazy shit but it all makes sense now. I have been gather all the peices of over the last three months but didnt quite realize how they worked to together to make codependent me but now I see clearly how it all came to be what is codependent me. The puzzle has finally come together. He thinks he's superman but I have found the Kryptonite. I will post an article later that sums it all up and my guess is it will sum it up for alot of people on here whether they realize or not yet. All I can say people: is if you are in gut wrenching pain craving this man start digging within yourself. Read Read Read. I would have to Shari Schreibers site is where it all started to click for me.
Mar 18 - 12PM (Reply to #29)
truetotruth
truetotruth's picture

SOI

See how wise you have become :) Wow...everytime....you are such a smart cookie!!! Keep at it you are helping people that haven't even had the courage to sign in yet...they are reading tho.... Your reflecction just got brighter :)
Mar 18 - 5PM (Reply to #30)
Lisa E. Scott
Lisa E. Scott's picture

I think we are Empaths

I believe I am an Empath, which describes a person who is highly tuned into other’s emotions and extremely sensitive. I have always been this way. In fact, my childhood friend was once asked to describe me in one word and without hesitation she responded by saying “SENSITIVE.” I was surprised by the rapid-fire response she gave, but it was eye-opening, to say the least. I have always been sensitive, and I find this to be both a blessing and a curse. I can feel other people’s emotions as if they’re my own. I’ve been told by others that my ability to empathize with them is palpable. While this is a blessing in many ways, it can prove difficult in interpersonal relationships. Empaths feel things more strongly than others and Narcissists pick up on the sensitivity of an Empath and take advantage of it. An Empath is the perfect accoutrement to a Narcissist. Empaths are incredible listeners, naturally giving and always there for people they care about. Narcissists notice this immediately because they purposefully seek a partner who is compassionate and in tune with their never-ending needs. An Empath absorbs the emotions of others and will easily fall prey to a Narcissist, who uses others as an emotional sponge. Empaths are very sensitive to suffering in the world and are often idealists who want to fix the world’s problems. Empaths have an incredible capacity for self-sacrifice and are often found volunteering or dedicating time to help others. People naturally feel comfortable sharing their feelings with an Empath because of their incredible ability to feel compassion and connect with others. Whereas a Narcissist does not connect well with others, an Empath connects too much. When Empaths are around peace and love, they flourish. However, when surrounded by an emotional vampire, like the Narcissist, an Empath is ravaged. An Empath absorbs the negativity, fear and rage of a Narcissist. So much so that they take on these problems as their own and try to fix things for their partner. This is precisely what a Narcissist is looking for in a partner and exactly why they seek out relationships with Empaths. They choose us for a reason. They choose us because we are strong, successful, intelligent and driven. They need someone to take care of them and certainly are not going to choose someone who can't provide for them. They know they can take a lot from us and gain tremendously by being in a relationship with us. They want to be taken care of and choose strong people to partner with for a reason. Overall, I believe being an Empath is truly a gift, but we must be careful not to allow others to take advantage of us.
Mar 19 - 10PM (Reply to #31)
Steph
Steph's picture

This really resonates with

This really resonates with me. I am proud that I am able to be in tune with others emotions and to be sensitive and compassionate....however, too many times, I find myself in a position where I am placing myself in someone elses shoes, and completely forgetting about my own. Ya know? How do you find the balance between still being compassionate, but not losing yourself in someone else? That's what I need to work on.
Mar 19 - 10PM (Reply to #32)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Staying Strong...

You raise a good question...I think for me the approach is learning discernment between legitimate help and enabling.
Mar 18 - 9AM (Reply to #24)
spinning
spinning's picture

T to T, what a beautifully

written, thoughtful post. I think you have made some great analogies as to everyone's phase in recovery; like SOI, I'm now peering into the river and getting used to the reflection. Like many others, I am just surviving a tsunami, too... ...You have such a way with words! Thank you for this post, it is very uplifting and filled with promise. Sincerely (finally slowing down from) spinning P.S. thank you SOI, too, for all your hard work and sharing. It has helped me immensely.

spinning

Mar 18 - 12PM (Reply to #27)
truetotruth
truetotruth's picture

Spinning

Im sorry..I dont wanna make you tear in anyway!!! YOU ARE the one filled with promise!!! Not my words....!! You have grown so much in such a short time... You are surviving I know..but you are also getting ready to live.....hugs to you!!!Happiness is waiting... Take care love and light
Mar 18 - 10AM (Reply to #25)
truetotruth
truetotruth's picture

Spinning ENORMOUS HUGS

Spinning....you know that not long ago you could barely bring yourself to write or question? Here you are....You are so beautiful to me..you have put so much into your recovery and eveytime I read a post by you I am inspired to keep moving....You fought for that reflection! Hard and through all the other crap life has dealt recently you are still here and still speaking and sending out love to all of us. Thank you for getting the analogies and thank you for sending this out. My heart needed a connection today :) Spinning I think a name change is coming soon :) BIGGEST hugs I can muster right to you!!!! love and light
Mar 18 - 10AM (Reply to #26)
spinning
spinning's picture

T to T, I needed a heart

connection today, too! Thank you so much for noticing my progress and for the encouraging words. I have tears in my eyes, but they're good tears. Cleansing tears of affirmation! Thank you! Love and light and good vibes and hugs!!! Sincerely (finally slowing down from) spinning

spinning

Mar 18 - 6AM
Smarterthanever
Smarterthanever's picture

Codependency

I am reading a book about codependency and I am without a doubt a codependent. The interesting thing is there is a lot of codependency going on on our little "love square" I also believe without a doubt that both his wife and my husband are codependents as well. Not that it's my concern about his wife, but it is interesting how one narc can have so much power over so many people. Obviously, I am examining myself and my relationship with my husband very deeply. We are in both individual and couples counseling. Yes, the fun from this affair just goes on and on!
Mar 18 - 8AM (Reply to #22)
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

Yep! Now ill say something

Yep! Now ill say something that will really get everyone mad at me. I would say that a vast number of people BUT NOT ALL on this board are suffering from some degree of codenpendency whether its a way they appraoch all relationships or whether its just with the Narc. All the experts say that it is rampant in narc relationships. Codependency exists on a continum with varying degrees from mild to severe and can actually be quite pathological severe cases can also be misdiagnosed as borderline pd
Mar 18 - 8AM (Reply to #21)
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

Yep! Now ill say something

Yep! Now ill say something that will really get everyone mad at me. I would say that a vast number of people BUT NOT ALL on this board are suffering from some degree of codenpendency whether its a way they appraoch all relationships or whether its just with the Narc. All the experts say that it is rampant in narc relationships. Codependency exists on a continum with varying degrees from mild to severe and can actually be quite pathological severe cases can also be misdiagnosed as borderline pd
Mar 18 - 8AM (Reply to #20)
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

Yep! Now ill say something

Yep! Now ill say something that will really get everyone mad at me. I would say that a vast number of people BUT NOT ALL on this board are suffering from some degree of codenpendency whether its a way they appraoch all relationships or whether its just with the Narc. All the experts say that it is rampant in narc relationships. Codependency exists on a continum with varying degrees from mild to severe and can actually be quite pathological severe cases can also be misdiagnosed as borderline pd
Mar 17 - 11PM
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Sickofit

The other day you and I spoke on a thread, and I don't recall the particular thread but you mentioned how perhaps by default because of the insanity I was involved with I may have taken on some co-dependent behaviors and I think that was a really valid point. I think I did and I think you were dead on when you said that I probably at the root am not codependent but was wearing the veil. To address your question however, why do people get uptight when that term is used to possibly identify what the problem may be... I'm not sure if many buy into that script - for some it might very well fit - however when one examines all that WE as women have been conditioned to believe...I'm a bit outraged because it seems like a setup! June Cleaver "Poster MOM" of the 50's essentially molded most of our mother's minds who in turn raised us! I'm gonna take a look at this list again: You base your feeling of self worth on your partner's approval Weren't we trained to do that...make him happy...be a the good wife..? -You try to solve you partner's problems because you feel directly affected by his/her troubles. Well if homeboy is broke and you're dependent upon him...damn skippy you're gonna solve it...tuna casserole is appealing but for so long...and we've been molded to BE the problem solvers... -Your primary goal is to satisfy and care for him/her. Well all I ever heard was...when you grow up...you have to....and you must learn to...and remember: The way to a man's heart is through his stomach....AND have you looked at the magazines right by the chekout counter? "How to drive your man wild in bed? right next to..."Quick and delicious meals in under 20 minutes your FAMILY will love!" -you feel happy when you are able to solve problems for your partner. Wouldn't most people feel happy for achieving the GOAL they've been molded to achieve FOR LIFE? -You put aside you interests and spend time focusing on his/her hobbies. Well darn it! Wasn't it Tammy Wynette who sang: "Stand by your man?" -You feel your partner reflects you and you choose his/her clothing and have a say in regards to hi/her appearance. Again, what have we seen isn't this "What women do?" -You view your positive qualities as what you have to offer others. "Isn't that all a woman is worth? To be of "service" to others?...to be selfless, giving, warm and soft?" When you're not...what do we get slapped with? We get bashed a Femminist! -You are unaware of what you want and are concerned with what your partner would like. AGAIN...isn't that the goal...don't they say: "Behind every sucessful MAN is a "good" woman?" -You have dreams of your future which include your partner. AND we can thank Grimm for that whom Disney later copied and created all those feel good movies like Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty amongst others...humph! -You are careful not to provoke you partner's anger. Well who the hell wants to hear a bellowing idiot?...Oops I mean disgruntled king of the castle? -You are afraid of rejection from your partner. I don't know anyone who looks forward to rejection from anyone including a partner...NONE of this sounds like a psychlogical condition...sounds like we've been set up. -You are generous with your partner in order to feel secure and prove your love in the relationship. This, okay...not the healthiest...it is a form of manipulation... -As you involve yourself with our partner, you lose contact with friends and family. Well yea, cause you're in loooove and all those hormones and endorphins are kicking in...it will pass... -You put your own values aside in order to relate to hi/her. Well, that is only a problem when one finds a mate who does not share similar values. If you're on the same page on values then you aren't putting your own aside because you're on the same page. If not, then this is called - "You're with the WRONG partner. If you stay...then it's called...I don't know what it's called but so far...maybe two on the list are questionable...IN MY OPINION...but I'm not a professional, I haven't profitted on books or gotten funding to raise a "movement" to support this notion. -You hold hi/her opinion in high regard. Well, again, why wouldn't you hold someones opinion you RESPECT? If you hold my opinion in high regard Sick of It are you co-dependent? -The quality of your partner's life has an impact on the quality of your own life. UH..again, if you're involved wouldn't it? That stands to reason, otherwise, why be in a relationship...how can you be in a relationship without some dynamics of this so-called co-dependency. I mean if we're so "Independent" then is it actually a relationship? RIGHT NOW I am NOT co-dependent at all...but I am also SINGLE! -Positive comments from our partner can give you an emotional high; a negative on can leave you at an extreme low. AND sick of it...a positive comment from me can ALSO give you an emotional high and if I said something negative, it would also give you an emotional low...this is not just strictly with partners. Overall, I think society is obsessed with labels, because labels allow all kinds of methods to mold and control the mind and it generates sales. Look on tv...there is a pill for EVERYTHING, and everything that is human is "flawed"...well, DUH - isn't that part of being human? Now, are there degrees of dependency upon others that are unhealthy? ABSOLUTELY! BUT if co-dependency is defined by these paramaters...I don't see it as a psychological condition...I see it as a set of behaviors that were developed as a result of being hoodwinked, brainwashed and duped by society and we have to work hard at dispelling all those myths and lies we've been told by our Mommas on up to Walt Disney! Hope you aren't offended, it's my take and I have read the book co-dependent no more, and yes, for some there may very well be some issues that need to be worked on...absolutely... BUT to answer the question, I think that in general, as humans, we are complex and that the whole codependent model does not necessarily fit as many people as they'd like us to believe; however, by us buying into it...it is a means of generating funds. BUT isn't that the truth about a lot of things? MANY things... That's my two cents...you may now begin to throw the tomatoes...I'd like some Italian dressing thrown on the side. Hugs!
Mar 18 - 6AM (Reply to #5)
jen79
jen79's picture

I agree with michelle

I dont like the term either, cause it makes me feel like I am not ok the way I was, but infact, I think its not only social conditioning fot women, but its inprinted in humans since we walked on earth. We are still stone age people in the heart. And its just to natural to care for the problem of others if you love them. Its some sort of new survival tactic to supress that, cause it feels like that for me, I have to supress that drive to care for someone I love, cause I know no good comes from that, and I have to focus on myself. Its a new mechanism to cope in this crazy "all about me me me" world. Some are better in that and successfull, and some are not. Its very human to react that way, in fact I dont know any one with a heart who wouldnt start to feel the way we did and act it out. I dont like the term thats why. Anyway we have to survive in this world, so of course we have to addapt new stragedies to live in such a world.
Mar 18 - 7AM (Reply to #6)
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

It has zero sexist conotation

It has zero sexist conotation to me. I can be codependent to my spouse to my boss to other women. in fact I have been very codependent in my work relationships. Yes it is natural to care and nurture but when you stay in unhealthy situations and have a sense of addiction to that situation. When you are months and months trying to get over an unhealthy relationship and you are still somewhat yearning for the person who 80 percent of the time was horrible to you that speaks of addiction and codependence. When your caring seems to get you into situations where you don't have boundaries repeatedly that is codependence. Do I suffer with codependence with barc boy? Yep an extreme case. I am not ashamed nor offended by being called that it is simply a fact. I mean there our worse things I could be called than simply being a person that cares to much who fails to erect boundaries. I own it the description and will use it to try to remember when to say enough is enough
Mar 19 - 4PM (Reply to #14)
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

Why? What makes you say

Why? What makes you say that? I will say this I believe he has been diagnosed as bipolar as when he began talking to me about his ex, he told me she had been diagnosed as bi polar. Well you know what I think... yeah right its you that has been diagnosed. One day near the end he sent me a text that said stopped seeing my shrink today. I know that borderline pd as commonly bi polar but I have also read that bi polar can be co morbid with npd and bpd. Shari schreiber indicated when you are dealing with a cassanova and you feel like you been dropped on your head then most likely you are dealing with a borderline. I know he has big time abandoment issues. He has often talked about his adoption I would say more than the average adoptee which I think is indicative that he has issues with it
Mar 19 - 4PM (Reply to #15)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

sickofit

you misunderstood the nature of my question...I meant nothing serious other than there are so many terms and semantics with all of this... psychopath vs. sociopath borderline vs. narc needless to say...I'd say the majority of us were accused faslely by the narcs as being "bi-polar" so in the end, I noticed you created "barc" and I was just playing around with combining a narc with a bipolar... that's all... Hugs!