do they know deep down what they are doing?

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#1 Oct 12 - 5AM
blueeyes
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do they know deep down what they are doing?

Last night my H wanted to talk. He babbled about how much he loves me and this family. I corrected him! I said "no, we are bankrupt and emotionally drained from you and that's not love, a man who loves us would take care of us." He said he does everything he can for us! Really? Ill hire a housekeeper! I don't need him. I explained that I am a mental wreck! I said "I even asked you to help me with that and you didint". He had no clue what I was talking about. I stood my ground but I really don't understand what he was thinking? He of course said that he think I have the NPD and not him! I told him he was just trying to project himself and right there is the abuse! We have a couseling appt today so he said "we will ask the professional who has NPD. Is he kidding? He has been diagnosed in my presents! I need to expidite a PFA and get the hell out!

Oct 14 - 10AM
Susan32
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The whole love thing

I was reading parts of "War and Peace" yesterday. It was the ex-Psych professor's favorite book, and his favorite character is the Narc Prince Andrei Bolkonsky. Prince Andrei abandons his wife Princess Lise, and when she is in the midst of a dangerous pregnancy, she assumes he won't come back (but he does) The look on her face is "Why are you doing this to me? You did nothing. Even you did nothing." Her face still has the look of "Why did you do this to me?" even in death, and it makes an old man angry. Prince Andrei, however, believes that what he did to his wife-in cruelly abandoning her- "cannot be expiated or forgotten." He is also "incapable of tears." In a debate with Prince Pierre at Bald Hills, he admits that he treated Lise badly. Pierre basically tells Andrei that he's the walking dead (Tolstoy describes narcissism as living death several times) After Lise's death in childbirth, Andrei woos Princess Natasha. He also cruelly abandons and rejects her when they get engaged. In the end, Andrei somehow sees himself as embodying "divine, eternal love" despite all his consciously narcissistic actions. He's cold and callous on his deathbed, still dismissive and trivializing human emotions. He sneers at Princess Marya when she brings his son. He forbids his son, Marya, and Natasha from weeping,and rages at them when they do so. Yet in the end, Andrei believes he's going back to be united to eternal Love. Talk about delusional. Andrei talks all about divine Love, eternal Love, but even when he's dying, he's not loving.
Oct 12 - 5PM
Briseis
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BTW . . .

"Last night my H wanted to talk." No, he didn't. He wanted to regain control. That is obvious by how "the talk" ended up.
Oct 12 - 5PM (Reply to #37)
blueeyes
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brieses?? btw? what did he want?

Omg, what did he say? How did you respond??? Help me, tell me what ur N wanted to talk about? Also, last night I told him we are moving. Today I get this text: I do truly Love you with all my heart and I know without a doubt I always will. I just wanted to tell you that. And Iam truly sorry for what we have become, this is not how I wanted it. I Love you! I just wanted to tell you that today. Wtf is that jumbo? A love song? I didn't answer!
Oct 12 - 6PM (Reply to #38)
Briseis
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I'm sorry . . . I wasn't

I'm sorry . . . I wasn't very clear. I was quoting your first line of your OP. I meant to say your husband doesn't want to "talk" in the conventional sense, like if you and I sat down. When Narcs say they want to talk, they mean they want to GET BACK CONTROL OF YOU. His babbling and boo hooing was a manipulation to get you to feel guilty for him, so you'd back down and let him back in the way you used to. As far as the text he sent you . . . words are words. I think there are some apes that can type (or at least speak in sign language). A first grader can type those words. I mean to say, words are meaningless without context. He says "I love you with all my heart and always will". He says that in the context of being physically violent with you, verbally and emotionally abusing you, leaving his children to suffer want and need because he won't get an effing JOB, and while doing all this, undermining their mother into a shadow of who she once was. Hmmm . . . love? Not!
Oct 12 - 1PM
Briseis
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Blueeyes

Yep to Lisa, I too think they "know". They know the "effect" their behavior has on other people. They (usually) aren't THAT stupid. They live in Hell because of it. You and I automatically know we can adjust or change ourselves to create better outcomes from our behavior. The Narc can't. This is where they go blind. It seems to be MISSING from their brain, it's a wiring problem for them. The needy Narcs (like yours and mine) know they don't want to lose us. But they can't NOT react/respond in a Narc way. They can't self correct. So they get desperate and exclaim love and "I do it all for yoooooo" and then start accusing US of being the problem.
Oct 12 - 3PM (Reply to #34)
ewa
ewa's picture

They know what they do and

They know what they do and they know what the effect this will have on us. During my last chat with my xN he told me he will not the same mistakes with the new GF he has now, which he did with his exGFs in the past. And he also said he is not gonna tell me what he feels about me as it would hurt me again - so well he realized he was hurting me. The problem is they are not sorry for what they do to us, they simply just care for themselves.
Oct 15 - 9AM (Reply to #35)
Nicole96
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nothing pisses me off more...

"They are not sorry for what they do to us..." I CANNOT seem to accept that this happens in nature... It is so hard to not let this drag you down... I will never get true justice if he cannot recognize and accept responsibility for what he has done.
Oct 12 - 2PM (Reply to #32)
lisalisa47
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WASN'T IT A NARC WHO SAID....

The BEST Defense is a GOOD offense? LOL had to be.... LML

LML

Oct 12 - 2PM (Reply to #33)
Used
Used's picture

another narc tactic

defence is the best form of attack or is it attack is the best form of defence...as i am not a narc.. i dont know if i am talking backwards...lol
Oct 12 - 1PM
lisalisa47
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I think on SOME level they know

On some level they KNOW - but where we get mixed up is, we think the fact that they KNOW will mean that they will have a emotional reaction to it, like EMPATHY. BUT usually, it's just that they are pissed that SOMETHING OF THEIRS is no longer in the picture. Kind of like reptiles - you are a part of their environment, nothing more, nothing less LML

LML

Oct 12 - 4PM (Reply to #7)
blueeyes
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Mr. I'LL never hurt you"

Has fucking crushed me! So, how do I get him to see my point. Like the sun a regular person peeks out! When he is that guy I guess? I understand he is empty! He hurt me badly!
Oct 15 - 11AM (Reply to #28)
lisalisa47
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YEP, i had an I WILL NEVER HURT YOU too!

That is the WORST of it all, they gear you up to believe in them by pummeling their (at best, HOPES that they can do right by you, and worst, LIES, until it is so ingrained in the fabric of your make up with them, that when it all starts to unravel, your first thought is" What did I DO to make this wonderful man stop loving me?" THIS is the part that we have the hardest time losing....the ILLUSION that they so thoughtfully made us believe LML

LML

Oct 15 - 11AM (Reply to #29)
blueeyes
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Lisalisa47-

I know, and I am getting a little further past this stage. But I have 2 teenage girls and they want him to stay their dada! Try explaining narcissim to them? Double whammy!
Oct 15 - 12PM (Reply to #30)
lisalisa47
lisalisa47's picture

Yeah YOU have a lot on your plate

In my situation, it's just me. And, i would never tell you how to go about informing your kids - first off, from what i know of you, you aren't the vindictive type who "slams their Dad to them" (i would be the same way) You say they are teenagers - well, beyond the love for Dad situation, my bet is at least one of them has seen that something isn't right with him. I will keep you in my prayers, Old Blue Eyes....that's a tough situation - damned if you do, damned if you don't.....(But don't give up! things WILL turn around to the path of justice, i know this in my heart) LML

LML

Oct 13 - 9PM (Reply to #27)
lisalisa47
lisalisa47's picture

Old Blue Eyes LOL ( i crack myself up on that everytime)

You can't get someone to understand a point that they refuse to get. My ex narc had a file he kept on his ex wife on his email for those "pointed" questions to him from her that any normal person would at least take the time to answer, even if it was just to deny it. BUT MY NARC, NO WAY, it was like "admittance of guilt" just to stash away anything that might call him on his game, and it was like he didn't want to read it. So probably the best thing to tell you is if they RAGE at a "point" you are tring to make, that is the best you are going to get in the way of them "getting it" on some level LML

LML

Oct 12 - 5PM (Reply to #11)
imabloke
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She said the same to me...

'I'll never do anything to hurt you" tears etc. blah blah then a few weeks later said that she didn't want to string me along as "i love my boss and he doesn't know it yet' "i've always loved him' blah blah.. i was interchanged in weeks!! Sounds like something from a school playground doesn't it? I don't love you anymore, i love that boy over there now. (till next week LOL) FAKE FAKE FAKE They're are fakes! and so the cycle continues..
Oct 12 - 7PM (Reply to #26)
Nicole96
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Mine said

"I love you and I wont abandon you" ..."lets go see a counselor" then less than 24 hours later "Its over, I'm leaving [right now]"
Oct 12 - 6PM (Reply to #12)
Alive
Alive's picture

Im

glad im out of that cycle, yes playground stuff because that's all they know lol. next thing will be 'he doesn't love me anymore' please can i come and play with you again? till i find someone else to pretend to love'. stupid woman. She sounds so up her arse.
Oct 13 - 2PM (Reply to #13)
imabloke
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happynow

Oh she's up her arse alright - like her mum.. jeez. I asked her to marry me when we were in Paris for her fortieth, chocolates, champagne that i pains takenly smuggled along with me, proposed by a fountain.. blah blah.. and she said yes. When it came to the eventual DD and i brought this up she said... 'yes that was very nice, but it didn't take my breathe away'. Fuck me - is she ever going to find someone that takes her breathe away.. maybe she will, but that's not the point - she didn't need to say that. No empathy for the other person. So yes so far up her own fucking arse she needs flushing down the royal toilet! Good riddance.
Oct 15 - 12PM (Reply to #25)
kiwi10
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i'mabloke

uhmmm.... will you marry ME?
Oct 13 - 3PM (Reply to #19)
cluelessuntilnow
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imabloke

That kind of proposal would take any NORMAL woman's breath away. She will never find someone to do "take her breath away", because her heart is not capable of love and vulnerablity. Her D&D was cruel, damning it with "faint praise" and I am so sorry that she did that to you. You clearly deserve a open, warm loving woman to spend your life with. I wish that for you and have no doubt you will find her someday. As for the ice queen, well she will always be cold and cruel.Good riddens indeed.
Oct 13 - 3PM (Reply to #21)
imabloke
imabloke's picture

cluelessuntilnow...

Thanks... "damning it with "faint praise" never thought of that.. you're right it just adds insult to injury... I wish she had said 'I don't love you anymore i fucking the boss so fuck off'. At least i would have known where i stood. It's like - well i'll try and let him down gently so i'll (her) feel better. Which makes things worse. FAKE FAKE FAKE. They're nothing but souless shits.
Oct 15 - 12PM (Reply to #24)
kiwi10
kiwi10's picture

trust me, being told they

trust me, being told they never loved or don't love you anymore, infact, does NOT make it hurt less.
Oct 13 - 4PM (Reply to #22)
cluelessuntilnow
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iambloke

My exN actually calls himself soulless. Not kidding. The faint praise is to make you feel like you are inadequate, and distract from the actual fact that they are cheating on you. Diversion, deflection, justification,demeaning,devaluing etc...all to detract from their bad behavior and control the situation. Yuck!
Oct 13 - 4PM (Reply to #23)
imabloke
imabloke's picture

cluelessuntilnow...

You're right.. and it all makes a silly sense... they are on another planet - their own. The more I am engaging with this - the more powerful i feel.. knowledge is power. It hurts tho.. to know that someone you thought loved you so.. so much turns out to be a fake. It sucks - big time...
Oct 13 - 3PM (Reply to #20)
Used
Used's picture

imeabloke

perhaps shaking her warmly by the sodding throat ...that would have taken her breath away....silly bitch!!!!
Oct 13 - 3PM (Reply to #14)
Briseis
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ROTFL!!

Yeah, fuck me. Maybe living with her head up her ass for so long has immunized her from having her breath taken away.
Oct 13 - 3PM (Reply to #15)
imabloke
imabloke's picture

Oh yes...

I'm sure it rather vacuas up there!! It's where they'll all end up dealing with their own shit on there own.
Oct 13 - 7PM (Reply to #18)
blueeyes
blueeyes's picture

imabloke

Don't you love the closet space now??? She's gone!
Oct 13 - 3PM (Reply to #16)
Briseis
Briseis's picture

What a person sees is their

What a person sees is their "paradigm". Their worldview. It is the foundation of the deep core beliefs that run the show for them. When you live with your head up your ass . . . well, it only follows :D