Do You Trust Yourself?

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#1 Oct 9 - 2PM

Briseis

Do You Trust Yourself?

If there were one thing that binds us all together it's that we were all deeply betrayed by someone who we thought loved us.

We've gotten pretty clear about it . . . he wasn't trustworthy. He is a Narc. By definition, they aren't trustworthy . . . worthy of our trust.

After such a betrayal, trusting others is tricky. Lots of fear and reservation, maybe even "testing" and sometimes even staging a set up so we can know for once and for all if this person is worthy of our trust.

How can we ever trust again? The Narc, before we knew what he was, seemed SO trustworthy. What did we miss? That we missed it once means we can miss it again. If you are anything like me, you DID miss it again. And again. I went to therapy, I studied self growth, I stayed single for 13 years after I divorced my kids' dad and was doing great. All that progress and I met my exNarc and MISSED IT AGAIN.

That first year after I got rid of him, I had to face that it wasn't so much about being unlucky in love, or even being a magnet for assholes. The common denominator in all this was ME.

And after realizing that . . . it hit me that I couldn't trust myself. I had deeply betrayed myself. Pretty much my whole life. It never occured to me that I needed to be able to trust mySELF.

Here's an article I found that says most of what I think about self trust but much more succinctly:

http://www.relationship-with-self.com/self-esteem-improvement.html

*When you trust yourself first, you will not get into abusive relationships.

*When you trust yourself first, you will follow your intuition for what feels right and what doesn't.

*When you trust yourself first, you will be your own best friend.

*When you trust yourself first, you will honor your values, beliefs, personality, faults, and everything that makes you, you. In turn, you will give this freedom to others.

*When you trust yourself first, you are able to place your trust into others.
*******************************

Learning to trust others again after the betrayal by a Narc is getting the cart before the horse. It is far more important to learn to trust ourselves.

For instance, when the exNarc and I were dating, there were a million red flags. And each time they popped up, my gut would go "thump". I felt uneasy. That was about it. Just a sudden urge to back up. I ignored it. In all honestly, I hated those "gut thumps". They made me miserable. They made me want to focus on what I didn't want to see.

A few months into my healing, it hit me that all along, my "gut thumps" were my OWN SELF trying to save me, protect me, warn me! No matter how deeply in denial I was, those gut thumps were there.

If only I had known . . . I could have trusted myself all along.

That was the cornerstone awareness that I'm rebuilding my trust in myself upon. This is how I know I can find new and good relationships, how I can take care of myself, meet my own needs, make reasonably decent choices about where to take my life.

I made a HUGE mistake, ignoring my "gut". But I trust myself to learn from my mistakes -- obviously :D . So I can make a decision and go with it, knowing full well I might be wrong. If I am, I'll learn from it and life will go on.

#2 Oct 11 - 12PM

blueeyes

No

I don't trust myself! I don't know yet who is good. I have my gut and I will go with that.

#3 Oct 11 - 12PM (Reply to #20)

MsVulcan500

Your gut

Your gut is a good place to start. With the N's in our lives, we ignored what our guts were telling us. We all see it now, how we didn't listen. But we won't do that again. The hard part now is to not give blind trust, but we also can't think that every person we meet is a predator. We need to set boundaries, and if the person is real, they will accept those boundaries. That's what it comes down to, if you feel like you can say "no" and not be worried that they will get mad at you or not like you. That is part of the conditioning we all experienced with the N's.

#4 Oct 11 - 1PM (Reply to #21)

Briseis

This is so true! A huge

This is so true! A huge part of learning to trust ourselves again is discernment. Listening to your gut is one part, but the tools every person alive needs to discern "danger" or "proceed with caution" have to come into place, too. MsVulcan talks about one of the most important (kind of the most important to my personal journey) tools. Respect for boundaries. How to discern if you are in the presence of a boundary breaker? Narcs (and other difficult folks) are boundary pushers. But they are mostly SUBTLE boundary pushers, at first. This is going to sound a little nutty, but FLATTERY is a kind of boundary pushing. Yeah, I know. But think about it. Flattery is when a person reaches IN to your self esteem, and tries to tweak it. Flattery is directly aimed to see if you have a weakness. If you respond positively to flattery, are grateful and relieved, the Narc thinks "Ah HA!" And if you get really quiet . . . your "gut" will react to even these subtle intrusions. People who get in your face and try and draw you into their personal dramas -- boundary pushers. People who come at you and "demand" you make a decision or a choice right NOW? Boundary pusher. Boundary pusher = lack of respect. Period. No matter who it is. A person you can so "no" to, that continues to be friendly and polite and interactive with you afterward? A good sign. If they make another stab, and another and another, in spite of seeming to respect you? That's NOT respect! I found that I had virtually surrounded myself with boundary smashers :( . My best friend, a lot of my family members, and less close friends . . . . AARGH!!! And I could no longer tolerate it at all!! My gut was tired of me not listening and it would NOT shut up when I was around them. I'm still in the process of surrounding myself with a new "community" of friends. I'm still hypersensitive about boundary pushers. I find myself vaporizing at the slightest intrusion. I know I'll get stronger and less reactive as healing goes on, it used to be a lot worse (can you say complete isolation??). Anyway, MsV that's so true :)

#5 Oct 11 - 1PM (Reply to #22)

wholeagain

My experience too

Seeing more all the time how many boundary pushers/violators have been around me, including one member of my family which I'd never even noticed before. Have learned that I can't really tell her anything at all unless I want my whole family to know. I've had a few tests of my boundaries in the last week and was glad to see that a) I notice it right away now, and it makes me angry and b) I stop the violation right in its tracks. I refuse to be sucked into anyone else's dramas anymore. I too vaporize at the slightest intrusion! And so do the folks who realize I won't let them intrude. It's actually really easy to have good boundaries once you get the hang of it. Who knew?!? I've also learned that normal people will respect "no" with very good grace. Have had to let a lot of people go over the last two years. The process of selecting my new community has been slow and careful.

#6 Oct 10 - 12PM

Bodhi

Couldn't agree more!

This is some great advice... I spent a lot of time in victim mode but after a while I had to really start looking at what my part was in the relationship. I stayed in the relationship far too long, had terrible boundaries, and my needs were always second. Yes, he's a narc, but I allowed this behavior. I could have left a lot sooner than I did. Yes, I often compare my feelings for him like an addiction... but addictions are not healthy and when you truly love yourself you will treat your body & mind as the most important thing in your life. This is a great reminder to us all how important it is to listen and follow the "inner compass" we all have. Well said, Briseis.

#7 Oct 10 - 4AM

girlfriday

In my own exN/P's words,

In my own exN/P's words, "The question isn't if you can trust me...It's if you can trust yourSELF." Always a brilliant one, he was right. That WAS the question. In a nutshell, he gained my "trust" one night by being kind and funny and benign. I was open and vulnerable and thought I made a great connection. The very next day he started in with sexy, yet creepy emails and texts that got way perverted. I called him on the phone, afraid because this was NOT NOT NOT the man I had spoken to and opened up to for 6 hours the previous night. I thought I could trust him. But then I got that creepy curve-ball. So I asked him hopefully, "Can I trust you???" And his question was the answer I got. I, too, had soooo many gut thumps. I chose to ignore them. Oh, and the answer to his question? I said, "No. I don't think I can anymore." And then I proceeded to lay myself on the railroad tracks of an N relationship. It's different now. I pay attention to my gut now.

#8 Oct 10 - 2PM (Reply to #17)

wholeagain

This is so familiar

"I proceeded to lay myself on the railroad tracks of an N relationship" It gave me chills reading this. So glad you're out and listening to your gut.

#9 Oct 10 - 2PM (Reply to #15)

Briseis

Girlfriday :)

My heart goes out to you (((((hugs)))))) what a complete monster. When you said "no, I don't think I can anymore" I have no doubt he knew he could move in for the kill. Your post is like a gem, pure and clear and so succinct. You capture the essense of what I mean to convey in my OP :) It still amazes me, that even in the depths of my deepest denial, my gut was in there "thumping" away, doing it's little job, trying to save my life just like it's supposed to do. It tells me that I have a core of "healthiness" that has been there, untouched by all the adversity in my life. And I can bring that healthy self forward into greater power and expression in my life. I am not permanently damaged . . . because the important core essense of me was untouched and undamaged by my exNarc. The damaged shit was more surface stuff, and the core of healthiness can rise up and put all that damaged shit to rights :) I pay attention to my gut now. When I first realized all this, and started to pay attention? It was amazing. It was like discovering I had a new appendage that did amazing, almost magical things. My gut is . . . well, almost psychic. I'd say it is 99% right, all the time. It doesn't exactly use words to inform me . . . it is just a "thump". I know what it means to tell me, even so :)

#10 Oct 11 - 2AM (Reply to #16)

girlfriday

"I pay attention to my gut

"I pay attention to my gut now. When I first realized all this, and started to pay attention? It was amazing. It was like discovering I had a new appendage that did amazing, almost magical things. My gut is . . . well, almost psychic." It's like we now have a Trust GPS. But, ACTUALLY, like in Oz, it's been with us all along. We just didn't plug it in. Thanks for the support:-) I'm STILL in denial about how icky it was, even though I know on some level and can talk about it. I still have touches of Stockholm syndrome too. I feel grateful that despite the fact that I ignored all the times the hair on the back of my neck stood up, he didn't take me into the woods and chop me up. (Metaphorically, perhaps, but not literally.)

#11 Oct 9 - 8PM

blueeyes

thought on trusting ourselves again

The only thing I can come up with is maybe our fathers?Well, my therapist said "I subconsciencely pick men who are liars cuz I never resolved the issues of my dad cheating on my mom! Who knows? He cld be right. My parents were WONDERFUL and I was the youngest of 5! Once I turned 14, my mom thought I was mature enough to handle the story of my dads affair. He had an affair that lasted 2 years and my mom threw him out! I was in 4th grade and I had no idea!!!!! I didn't need that info at 14. I havnt been right since. It shocked me. Mom forgave and dad learned and their married 36 years happily! It sure didn't help me at 14. I'm very careful what I tell my kids. Sry to babble. :(

#12 Oct 10 - 2PM (Reply to #12)

Briseis

Blueeyes

This is exactly what I mean, too. You were going along having a happy childhood, believing everything was fine. Then your parents drop this bomb on you. Everything was NOT fine :( This must have been a major major blow to you feeling as though you actually know what is going on in your life :( We have this deep instinctual need, built into the system, to have a sense of control of our lives. To know where all our parts are, and to feel safe and sure of our environments. What this news did to you was blow you out of the water. You DIDN'T know what was going on. YOur world was NOT safe. Your parents were "imposters" in a sense, esp your father. And as any 14 year old innocent girl would do . . . you blamed yourself for being so stupid that you didn't see it for yourself :( I can totally see how this would translate into falling for Narcs in your future. I think you really get it, Blueeyes :) Good for you!

#13 Oct 10 - 3PM (Reply to #13)

blueeyes

Briseis ty

I get it. Thanks. I don't like it but I get it.

#14 Oct 9 - 11PM (Reply to #7)

wholeagain

Wow Blueeyes

Are you my sister? Same scenario in my family, wonderful parents who've been together 50+ years, but when I was 12 my dad's affairs were uncovered. I had thought our family was so solid, then one day it felt like the rug was ripped right out from under me. He moved out for a few months but then came back and life went on. I've replayed my parents' drama over and over again in my own relationships. I've finally put that one to rest it seems. I hope to god my bf never crosses the line but if he does, I'm out. I've had enough of trying to get over infidelity.

#15 Oct 10 - 6AM (Reply to #8)

blueeyes

Wholeagain?

Your over it? How, that's my issue. I'm not over it. Well, I never trusted my dad again. So i never trusted a man...So, why not pick men who are fucked up like me but look good? UGH! This is my hurdle

#16 Oct 10 - 2PM (Reply to #11)

wholeagain

Well...

Well I'm 45, and spent from 18-43 with two narcissists (very different styles though). My therapist helped me see how I was repeating that drama. This time I chose a man whose parents have been solidly married for 50+ years, similar background to mine, and has never cheated on anyone in his life. I take anything I hear with a grain of salt because of my history, but I knew him almost three years before we started dating and in all that time, and since, I've never run across any inconsistencies, he just doesn't have a sneaky bone in his body. Words and actions match. He earned my trust, and has to keep earning it every day just as I do with him. Everything I've learned here has been a big giant help too, and continues to be, not just in love relationship but also friends/family/business contacts. So I guess after hammering at that pain for years, and believe me I did, I just decided it was time to stop letting it fuck up my life. My parents' story is their story, I'll never know all the nuances of it. I took on my mom's pain but that's not my job anymore. I have my own life to create and damned if I'm going to waste another minute! You're going to be fine Blueeyes, better than fine. You're in the belly of the whale now but you're armed with so much info that a narc won't stand a chance with you in the future! xoxo

#17 Oct 10 - 2PM (Reply to #9)

Briseis

But you can trust yourself,

But you can trust yourself, now. You are an adult woman, not a 14 year old CHILD sheltered from reality by her parents (who did so to protect you, not hurt you). I think your Mom telling you at that age was a deeply abusive thing to do, but I doubt she meant it abusively, she was just inappropriate and . . . well, cruel to do so. But aside from that . . . my whole post is about that we get into these relationships because we don't trust ourselves, we don't listen to our God given instincts (or even know that they exists). You can trust yourself. In another year, if you keep on working so hard, you will be able to trust yourself so much more. It's already there, inside you, just waiting for you to listen :)

#18 Oct 10 - 3PM (Reply to #10)

blueeyes

Briseis and wholeagain-

Thanks for your help. I will get thru this hell soon. I hope to trust my gut and move on. One question? How do I protect my kids from an abusive N? Protect them by not telling them the truth?

#19 Oct 9 - 3PM

gettinbetter

Its not that I didn't trust

Its not that I didn't trust myself or my gut, I ignored it because the high was so good. I'm tellin you guys this guy is just like heroin for me no kidding

#20 Oct 9 - 4PM (Reply to #3)

faith999

Yes,I did trust my gut

Yes,I did trust my gut but ignored it as well. As you say "because the high was so good". I KNEW from date 3 he was a narc. I KNEW he was grooming me. I KNEW I KNEW I KNEW!!! This is my struggle. This is what I can't reconcile within myself. What kind of woman sacrifices her self just for really good sex and affection ? FOR YEARS!!!..When I met him I was separated from my husband (later divorced) and I had zero self esteem. Yum Yum...perfect bait for the old narc.

#21 Oct 10 - 2PM (Reply to #5)

Briseis

Faith999 and Sick of it

I read this last night at work but couldn't respond (both you Faith and Ms Sick of it). It threw me for a loop at first, and I had to think about it. I know I ignored my gut too, and went for the thrill of it. That still seems to me a function of "not trusting" the gut. Ignoring and not trusting are similar, and when the rubber hits the road, and the consequences hit the fan . . . ignoring your gut and not trusting your gut are the same damn thing :(

#22 Oct 9 - 8PM (Reply to #4)

gettinbetter

when I first met him I had

when I first met him I had alot of self esteem when he was done with me NONE. Sad but true. I never truly recovered from it the first time.

#23 Oct 9 - 3PM

blueeyes

Briseis- trust?

I just addressed this in Nicoles post. I should have put it here as it belongs here!

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