Just watched it and have made lots of notes. Given me food for thought. Quite chilling when I remember those nighs I felt not quite right around my partner.
Hi fairy wings!
Intuition always tells us something about what is NOT right, something that's NOT done, something we can NOT put our finger on. Listen to your gut the next time, that's what I've learned from my N-experience :-)
they should have just said PSYCHOPATHS - it would have been more accurate than Egomania.
Love when the narrator says "sometimes the answer is staring you right in the face" and then they do a closeup on Vaknin trying to figure out his own "word salad" ROFLMAO
Dr. Hare figures in this documentary (one of my favorite go-to researchers)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3egkiZTOpSE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiCuerbNnrw
http://narcissism-support.blogspot.com/2009/03/sam-vakin-diagnosed-psychopath.html
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He also says something very important for all of us to remember:
"You're challenging me, not by doing anything.. you're a very nice guy, but you're challenging me by your mere existance."
Wow, how disturbed is that????
back yearssss ago... when I got home from the PTSD clinic after Psycho-Boy's traumatizing of me - I got online. I had been educated about pathology a little and decided to read everything I could on Destructive Narcissism.
The first groups I joined were the SV Narcissism groups and their spin-offs. SV posts and reposts, ad naseaum, his blather all over the net on every author, psychology and self-help site he can find. Google "narcissism" and you are literally TRIPPING over his stuff. Like a sticky web from which you can not escape.
I didn't last a whole year on any of those groups because I questioned SV and his enforcers. I was reading other books by REAL doctors and got curious about their take on what I was reading. I did the unthinkable! I questioned the cult of the almighty SV. Ban mode on!
That set my alarms off because that's exactly what the narcs I'd known, even my late NMom would do. NO DISCUSSION!!! "My Way or the Highway!" Something was wrong but I moved on and kept reading and learning.
Sometimes I would take breaks for MONTHS at a time because what I was learning was so breathingly evil & mind-bending. And I was struggling with No Contact, serious PTSD and many other issues with the Ns I'd known.
But I met a handful of people who were as DEEPLY traumatized as I was. Who were a year or two out like me (eventually) and still struggling. Other victims had already started to move on and were telling us to "just get over it already." Other VICTIMS! However, the one thing the people who I related the best to? We had all been confused and confounded by SV.
The more I read and researched - the more he seemed like evil incarnate. And the more I became determined to help other victims where I had been let down. I learned to avoid SV and educate anyone who'd listen about Narcissism.
"The most brilliant trick the devil ever pulled was making the world think he didn't exist!" - The Usual Suspects
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Yes... they are the devil in disguise. I noticed the manipulation tricks he uses when I read one of his examples of 'projective identification'. I think he used a dialogue to illustrate it but he (I now think deliberately) confuses you by switching the narcs actions or responses into the victims actions or responses and the other way around. I had such troubles understanding, I remember going over and over it to understand until I realised; THIS IS HIS GAME !!!
his "inverted narcissist" b.s. is the worst.
and doesn't exist. he's so full of it!!
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That was intriguing!! I think mine falls on the lower rungs.... but look how incredibly awful that is. Those people were all talking about thinking nervous breakdown and suicide and that was just with the first guy who only had 3 traits.
My heart just went out to those victims, you could hear the pain in their voice, and see it on their faces.
At first I was like...ugghh, Sam's all over this, but if you watch part 5, you get to see him squirm. ;)
quietude,
It gave me the chance to see Sam in play which was interesting but after listening to him I further more will personally avoid anymore news/documentaries about him from that point on. Guy really left me feeling "cold" and "detached" in his persona, Just my opinion..
I know it, I was glad that they didn't try to cover the fact that he had NPD. The outtakes were pretty unsettling, especially when he said something to the effect of 'do you hear those kids, why can't they just be born adults?,' and when he was telling the director he should be directing the documentary, and how that bothers him. One thing that was interesting is that his gf was very 'matter of fact' about his disorder and said she takes what she needs from him, and he takes what he needs from her. I totally agree on him leaving you with a cold feeling...he's just creepy!
It does make me wonder that with him having all of the traits, why he doesn't snap one day like that other kid that killed his parents?? Just a thought...
I think there's an overlap in Vaknin between NPD and APD but the difference is that he's 'self-aware'. Just like the guy who watched everyone being upset by 9/11 and thought "Wow, there must be something wrong with me". That's unusual for a Narc!
The difference between a Narc and a Psycho i.m.o. is that the N is more concerned with his image than the P. They are always trying to gain approval, admiration from a certain audience, they exist through the eyes of their created environment, the people he looks up to. You are part of that audience in the beginning but in the end you no longer serve his ego, in fact you become a threat and you 'challenge him by your mere existence'.
Whereas the psychopath couldn't care less about other's opinions on him, if he gets attention by what he's done then that's just a nice side-effect but it's not what he's after. He's in there for himself and ONLY for himself. There are NO others, they simply don't exist in his mind. An ego-threat doesn't set him of (like with N's). They're less predictable and their actions just seem random, that's what makes them dangerous.
Yes liselotte, at least a narc has feelings?? But it's only about his own feelings?? Wild, huh? And psycho's don't have feelings...just gives me shivers!!
I am pretty fascinated by the psychology, but there's still a lot I don't understand, but I think it's because our brain can't totally comprehend how their brain functions. But that's probably a good thing!
Hi!
Yes; we 'feel in', the narc can 'feel for' (if this is good for his image or his own feelings) and the psycho has no feelings at all!!
We've cracked the nut, that's it.
And yes, it's a good thing that's there's a cognitive dissonance in our brain in our attempt to understand this. It means we're not as f#%*ed up as them.
Yes, I've read almost everything he has written about NPD but in the end I couldn't help feeling manipulated by what he had written, bad taste in my mouth.. It's just incredible how he can still make you doubt yourself even when writing about HIS disorder...
I always loved this REAL doctor's assessment of ole' SV:
More on Vaknin:
Please note that the Internet is an excellent source of information (Not to say, that much of it is not quite right. Up to date (12.08.08), the search engines seem to have become more stable and it makes sense to use all three. This is: google, yahoo and msn. However, google seems to be superior by far to all others, and others are useless at this point in time).
The Internet has become crime spot number one. Quite sad to say this, but this is because there are no controls. Anybody can do whatever (s)he wants by the click of a finger (button this is). It was first a military place and then scientific, now it is just sad. I saw it grow from day two, when it became scientific and I was quite excited. This excitement has ceased to exist. I have seen things out there they just make you throw up. In terms of NPD; there is particularly one fraudulent individual out there and this is Sam Vaknin, however he is not the only one. When you are in a crisis, you do not really want to tell family and friends and you turn to the Internet. Well, this is the place you should NOT be if you are in trouble. Seek real help. Don't feed the ego of some deranged individual.
You buying his book!
Every link he leaves somewhere like a bait leads eventually to him telling you to buy his misogynistic and pseudo-scientific book.
However, if you want to know for yourself how sick this individual is, you might wish to read his own sh*t at: http://www.articles-for-you.net/article-Sam+Vaknin-id-20152-keys-narcissists.html
Back to the issue; there are others out there too and there are many.For them it is easy money and to them you are a laugh a minute because you bring in the money.
Beware!
Dr. Ludger Hofmann-Engl
http://www.chameleongroup.org.uk/npd/index.html
BTW - Vaknin is a DIAGNOSED psychopath - waaaay beyond Narcissist.
http://narcissism-support.blogspot.com/2009/03/sam-vakin-diagnosed-psychopath.html
Would you ask a shark to explain to you why they hunt & kill? Or a man-eating tiger to tell you why he eats men? That's the same thing people do when they turn to this web-predator for advice and "help."
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I just sent Lisa something Vaknin wrote that is was so f-d up... it (per usual) blames the victim and calls us DELUSIONAL. A lot like his 'inverted narcissist' nonsense.
More on ole Sammy:
http://www.enpsychopedia.org/index.php/Sam_Vaknin
Anyone who has the need to repeatedly and obsessive load the web with the same nonsense so poor victims are ensnared is a dangerous person and should be avoided at all cost.
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Documentary
intuition
accuracy
Barbara
liselotte
Barbara
liselotte
That was intriguing!! I
finallydone
Love it!
interesting
Oh sammy!
james
quietude
makes sense
quietude
James
HIS disorder is psychopathy
Sam Vaknin
liselotte