Hurt does linger....
Wishing him ill will be bad karma for me, so I try not to do that.
But I truly wishing the situation were different. He doesn't deserve more attention. I get overwhelmed with frustration and anger at his ability to have more women. I hate the fact that this doe-eyed woman looks at him like he's attractive and desirable bc it probably makes this asshole feel like a king. The world seems so screwed up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I know..me too...even though my N's new hooch is the ugliest girl on the planet..i still get mad he is getting "attention"which he just looovveeeddddddd
Do you want to punch something? I think I'm going to go ballistic over this part. They THRIVE on attention. And there it magically is...again.
Deep breaths....
Yep..But i truley believe if they werent getting it else where they would be even more up our arse's for attention..they are like little children saying mommy mommy i want attention..and pulling the mom's pant legs if she doesnt make time for them..i know it stinks..but the only thing I can think of is that we have been shot-out of this equation faster than a speeding bullet..because the universe does not want US...great women to be with these men..it's like we have so much more to offer and it is being drilled into our heads the hard way..
although I didnt exactly always follow my own program. One time, the first time, in fact after I told him to leave me alone at work, he sidled up to me when he thought nobody was looking and asked me how I was doing point blank. My reaction, judging by the responsed here, should have been, "fine, just great."
Instead, I used that mixture of boredom, amusement, and pure mockery on my face and asked him very sarcastically, "M, just WHAT part of LEAVE ME THE HELL ALONE don't you understand?"
Then he totally lost it, went into full N rage, cursed at me, and then glared at me while I walked past him and out the door. He tried to get ME in trouble, but unfortunatley for him my co worker was standing just outside the door and heard the whole thing. Since everyone at the company already knew the situation between us, he got written up and I just was "spoken to." Not like that amounted to anything.
So, in hindsight, it more or less worked, he let me be after that because he was forbidden to bug me at the office, and I humiliated the shit out of him, but yes, less is more. You don't have to get as dramatic as I did in order to make them feel like an ass. Believe me, they already feel like fools 98% of the time.
I'm having a REALLY hard time today coping with this. I'm trying to be indifferent, calm, relieved to be out of his clutches. But seeing him work the new woman right in front of my face is killing me. He is trying to conceal stuff from each of us, but at other times, he does things out in the open. I guess it depends on what needs he's trying to fill at that point. He just doesn't care what the other woman feels or thinks. But then he'll turn around and be cagey and secretive.
I've got more proof this week that I'm right about their flirtation. She got territorial I think and deliberately walked in when he was talking to me. She's that interested, apparently. I noticed that he got nervous when he saw her. He thinks he covers his tracks but doesn't always. I just KNEW something was going on--the conversations with her that I can overhear, the careful planned talks with me (when she's out), the work-stuff they discuss all of a sudden.
He makes sure he always has someone, and I have to watch and suffer each new woman. It's confusing and upsetting and maddening beyond belief!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is BRUTAL. I'm not coping well....
I am having the same bad day you are having as this is the same scenario here...RIGHT NOW...but the only difference is that the OW talks with me. She is seeing what is happening after i told her the truth. when i told her the truth..i said..."this is what happened...and its up to you to decide what to make of it...i am not doing this to make you not to date him...but telling the truth....i cant stop him from dating anyone including you".
The OW tells me that he waits for me to be out of the room to talk to her. So..its first hand info.
Trust me...NOTHING will happen to us...you will get better,,,,
i cant even explain my bad day....he talks about the HOT women(a fitness person) he saw at a restaurant and looked her up on facebook and how he ended up looking at all her other friends who were HOT for 3 hours. I have to sit and listen to it...and then...after that...he comes to me asking if i want to a snack with him.
You will be fine....thats what i keep telling myself.....
rinalda trust yourself that you will be fine...i know its hard cos i go through it
I don't feel fine right now but I'm getting to the point of being so tired from crying that my mind will get fuzzy soon.
I pray for you and hope you will be better soon. Yours sounds like he's trying to be "the MAN," so cool because he meets a hot woman. Silly. He's just proving what a boy he is.
At least the OW in your case is wise to this and can decide whether or not to get burned. Maybe she'll toss him. They all deserve that.
I really feel for you. Though I clearly see my ex-N for the monster she is, I too feel the emotions that you go through when seeing the N with another. I REALLY HATE watching her fool another unsuspecting soul. I also find myself regretting ever getting close enough to see the true monster that lurks within. I sometimes wish I had kept my ex-N at a distance so that I only knew the false her, the one that all the other office colleagues get to interact with. You know the one, the charming, funny, sweet one... instead I know what evil truly lies beneath the surface.
TRUST ME Rinalda, any OW will eventually be D&D'd, just like you were! An N is PATHOLOGICAL and is not capable of changing. He will burn everyone in his life, especially women! Try to tune out, walk away, SMILE and be the loving, wonderful person you are. Show him that he did not kill you. Show him that he is nothing by not reacting, avoiding eye contact, and keeping any words between you as emotionless as possible. IT WORKS.
The harder part is controlling the sadness in your eyes. Keep a smile on your face, no matter how small (like you have a secret) and avoid eye contact. I like to visualize my ex-N as toddler having a tantrum, when she is acting out or, my favorite, as a PILE OF SHIT when I have to be near her. That way, I know my face and body language show that I am REPULSED. LOL!!!!
herlatestvictim--Go with the regret for ever having gotten close to the monster. If you can, leave sadness behind.
I know that all of you can relate to this torture of having to watch the N the next fling develop right in front of you. When this hunk of crap N deserves to be most alone, someone else fills the gap....I guess charm pays off for them...
The women will suffer, true, but the N will get his fix and feel content (as much as Ns can). The frustration of seeing him "succeed" is just salt on the wound. It is indeed too much to have to bear sometimes.
I smile in the genuine happiness I'm experiencing from having recovered to some degree, and I smile because he is NOT going to see any more pain on my face.
Yes, head down, eyes averted if possible. He's getting bolder now, though, starting conversations more and more (when OW #2 isn't near, mainly).
This happens all the time. When I am not there he will make a move with her and when she is not there he will make a move with me. I dont even know what he wants anymore. I just give no reaction at all. At times I can see that in my bodily reactions but i try to control. He will come up to me with very silly questions on work or go to her when I am not around.
It just hurts...but i am making myself numb. I am trying to accept that he is not a good person who I feel in love with. He only comes around for supply.
Last week I was minding my own business and was away...when no one was around he sat beside me and started talking. ...that was the end of composure....i cried....he said some very cruel words.
What goes around will come around ..for him. I wish he would go through even a tiny bit of what i am going through some day. but know what...it might never happen.
I hope you feel better. NO REACTION. Just follow that.
These days i have become very quiet at work....just minding my business...and not talk much....i just do my job and get out....it helps me to get away from any complication. I am a very cheerful type otherwise.
HE JUST DID IT TO ME AGAIN. I was only at work for five inutes before he joined a conversation happening right neara my desk. He pointedly greeted me and asked me how I am. The thing is, he KNOWS when the OW will be in. There was a FIVE MINUTE WINDOW between my entrance and hers, and he "fit me in". Sure enough, she's here now.
Unbelievable. For sure he's playing games now.
I know, don't react. I'm not reacting visibly. But silently, it is really bothering me.
It's not that I expect him to care about me anymore--it's that I can't believe the way he operates, still. He and I went through this already. It burns me (jealousy?) that he's "protecting" this other fling by interacting with me behind her back. I know he only cares about himself--but I feel disrespected yet again. And that he is starting up with someone new all over again....
OH MY GOD.
What will help you not react on the INSIDE is to come to terms that this guy is narcissistic. Once you 'get' that, his behavior will still be obnoxious and outrageous . . . but you'll understand that it's NOT about you.
Sure he's disrespecting you. He's a Narc. Hello LOL! He is incapable, due to his NPD, of respecting anyone. OF COURSE he's disrespecting you.
So, so what? He's disrespecting you. Does his disrespect for you mean something about you? Does it mean you are unworthy of respect?
Hell no. It means he's a Narc. He is incapable of empathy or respect. He's a walking, talking whackjob.
Your value as a person, your respectability, your lovability, is completely intact, Rinalda.
No matter WHAT he does!
Briseis--Thank you. I've struggled all along to come to terms with this. I think being disrespected evokes this feeling in me of not being special.
By contrast, he must think he's extra special when in after what he's done he should feel like shooting himself. This behaviour/disorder is so hard to grasp. I can't believe he feels so entitled to things--and the universe gives him more--as though he actually IS a special person. I want his ego taken down a million pegs.
No, his illness and the way he chooses to treat people do not diminish me. I will try to remember that.
He KNOWS. He knows how to play the game....how to fit in you both at the 5 minute gap.
This is what drove me crazy. Knowing him close enough to know his games and to sit and watch him play his games as the MOST INNOCENT PERSON ON EARTH trying to ONLY be cordial to people.
This happens day in and day out. he uses every other opportunity. Good or bad. Last time he said...."i dont care if you and the OW be a team"......he hates that she doesnt not give in that much like before she knew my story....
but..know what...we never know what will happen with him and her as he knows how to play his charm and its not my job to stop it. i have warned her already.
now...I try to mind my own business.....I said TRY.....i am trying hard everyday.
please let your mind go blank.....I can understand what you are going through cos its the same day for you and me....but you have to stop predicting and analyzing his games....i listen to music and i wont even know whats happening around (well i would know....but i try not to know).
Following his games in our mind will drive us crazy. It drove me crazy because what i predicted he would do in that "5 minute" gap when i am not around any time seemed to come true always. this further drove me crazy.
I feel disrespected all the time....right in front of everyone...right in front of my own eyes....but know what rinalda ....he said he NEVER LOVED ME and it hurts more than any disrespect.
He is a horrible person. Just remember that.
All these are slowly sinking in to my mind.
Stay strong...sometime I think this mental torture is too much to take.
I ended up quitting my job over my experience with a narc at work. In my case it was more because I was emotionally fried and just couldn't be there getting triggered in general. I can only imagine your pain in having to have this going on right in front of your face day in and day out.
I second the advice I've seen here, especially about being visibly bored by him and his antics. Hopefully he will eventually realize he can't get anything more from you and will stop trying.
I played the game for several weeks with my narc having to pretend I was his buddy so he wouldn't trash me to others. I had to try to protect my career and professional reputation by going along with him. Even though I was dying inside I forced myself to act like a neutral friend until I could get out of there. In my case, there had been no D&D exactly, I had essentially ended our romantic involvement, but he wanted to be friends. It was horrible to have to put up that front all the time when I was hurting inside. He would constantly ask me how I was doing, acting like a concerned friend. I always said, "fine" "great" "wonderful, why do you ask?" He would keep at it until I started thinking, "well, maybe he really IS concerned and I should just level with him". So I would finally admit that I was down. THat was all he wanted. He would end the conversation after that, safe in the fix of thinking he had broken my heart. Bastard!
Don't give this guy ANYTHING. When you are more healed you will be glad you didn't let him see your pain.
Keep your chin up. I know it's hard. I'll be thinking about you.
meadowbrook....this is very TRUE.
He asks me every time .."how are you doing" "i am concerned about you" "i worry about you constantly"....i will buy his bullshit eventually and he would know that i am not doing well (well ..i was not able to put a show with him at that time )....then he just becomes casual as before.
he is a bastard.
Good for you that you are out of there.
i sit in the middle of the OW (one of his interests) and him.
Isn't it just sickening to know that someone you thought cared about you actually gets a kick (ego boost) out of your pain?
Just remember, as far as he should know you're fine, great, having a wonderful day! :-)
One question though......when i am feeling fine and being myself at times or when i am in the mood ...i talk to everyone in the work place...just be nice to them and pass comments....BUT...when i am fine...he seems DOUBLE fine...he seems very happy....i dont wnat to make him happy..
Well...he has also been very happy when i was just doing BAD ...REALLY BAD...he knew what he was doing to me too.....
I just don't know what to be in front of him any more...
any thoughts?
You said yourself he is happy when you are doing bad. So minimally, you know that he isn't empathetic to your pain. If he's a narc I think it's safe to say he's not happy because he's relieved that he didn't ruin your life. It's not like an N would think, "well Moonshine seems happy today, whew, I sure am glad I didn't actually cause her pain!" In fact, my personal experience was one in which the N DID enjoy my pain even though he tried to act like he was a friend.
And just because he is acting DOUBLE FINE does not mean he is truly happy. It sounds like he is reacting to your moods and therefore I suspect he IS bothered when you are happy but he's trying hard NOT to show it. Narcs are very good actors and naturally manipulative and cunning. If he really is a narcissist then he might keep working on you until he scores that little point to prove to himself he hurt you or broke your heart or you are pining for him.
I can sympathize with "I just don't know what to be in front of him anymore." because I remember feeling that way for so long. It was like I was in a continual game of chess and I was determined to win in some small way for my own dignity's sake. But it was so stressful and exhausting. I don't want to try to add to your stress by giving you advice that keeps you in an emotional game of chess. I had to keep engaged with the N at work under my particular circumstances until I could quit. But if you are able to eliminate as much contact with him as possible that would be the way to go. If not, my advice would be just to stay the course, don't show him anything. Keep on an even keel and try not to think too much about what it means when he is "acting" happy.
I hope that helps.
Thanks for the reply...
He is happy when some one is feeding him attention...but not sure why he acts all happy if i behave or talk normally to other people. He thinks thats a sign for him to approach me and ask me if i want to go to lunch with him or ask me how i am doing.
I moved out of his place 4 months back and thats the time the OW started showing him some interest back. He never hesitated any opportunity to talk with her even while i was rotting inside.
he enjoyed that i was hurt. He was just happy..laughing and commenting with her.
when asked why he behaves this way when i was hurting ..he asked me..."dont you want me to be myself?" ...i was devestated.
the bottom line now is that he things he can approach me when i am feeling fine. he will not stop attempting to talk to me or her.
thats why i said that i dont know what to be in front of him. i kinda act aloof from everyone as i am depressed and also just to show him i am not well because of him. I felt i can atleast make his life miserable to make him feel guilty...oh well....that never happens...
you are right though....but my question to you is that he thinks he can approach me when i am in good mood...or if i act in a good mood.
I went through this from ohhh, 2002 till 2005ish, he was one of my bosses and while it was happening, if felt like it would never end. It's relentless behaviour on their part.
And their behaviour affects your daily peace of mind. You could be having a great day but that piece of poison is lingering around, his actions, his presence, it's toxic.
It drove me crazy in that era, it really did. Mine would play music extra loudly from his office, so I'd hear it at the end of the hall at my office. He and I had this twisted thing about music, while dating we'd email each other songs with lyrics specific to what we were going through.
Our theme song at that time was, Alanis - Hands Clean. My theme for him was Mr. Bigstuff.
So he'd play songs with different meanings so I'd hear them. He ruined so many good songs for me.
Anyways, fast-forward a bit and I left the office in November of 05 to pursue a different career path. I left on good terms and he was engaged to an old friend when I left. I was devastated.
A few more years later he was legally fired from his own company for hitting on clients and a young female staff member.
Funny how life works out sometimes.
It will work out for you too Rinalda.
Unfortunately it just takes a bit of time for our good friend karma to work its way around.
movingforward--You are moving ahead. I'm sorry you had to deal with the engagement. You seem better now, though. And those songs. Is there anything not in their arsenal of emotional weapons? Such ridiculous behaviour.
I know--the day can just slide downhill when he goes into action....Peace of mind is my goal.
Since they are "perfect" in their own eyes, they could have sex with a goat and five minutes later appear in front of you expecting you to swoon. They have absolutely no shame.
I like Agnesmurphy's advice. Have a very bland, slightly bored look on your face when he comes up to you. Don't give him the pleasure of the slightest emotion on your face. If he asks what's wrong, say "nothing." and repeat it until he goes away. Be Teflon. Nothing sticks.
Narcs hate Teflon. And they really hate (and fear) people who find them boring. It reminds them of the yawning, gaping black hole emptiness in the pit of their soul, and how small they are, and how frightening that is. It is the antithesis of "supply".
If he sees your eyes get big, and an expression of hurt or dismay on your face . . . honey, you are feeding him. He's sucking it up.
"They hate and fear people who find them boring"- The ex-Psych professor had a reputation for being... BORING. I still have a copy of his "Wittgenstein's Confessions" lecture, and it's deathly dull. The last time I read in its entirety was probably back in 1996... not kidding. Now, I'd need Dunkin' Donuts Turbo coffee, Starbucks AND a 5 Hour Energy drink to read it completely. Back in the day, he'd go around complaining how boring I was. Really. He'd tell his male disciples I was boring. He'd tell me I was boring.
I'm so glad I left the Southwest a decade ago (it is beautiful, at some point I might go back as a tourist). I'm not feeling obligated to congratulate his grant $$$ for his lecture on "War and Peace"--but it does sound like it was a good way for the student body to sleep off their hangovers. He's Valium incarnate!
I know how you feel; working with them. we've talked about this before, but I had panic attacks every day with the games.
And like you, after you told me he no longer wanted a personal relationship with me, he did EMOTIONAL BLACKMAIL on me to force me to contract him for another 6 months and then 2 weeks later brought dates into the workplace again to meet him for lunch after he had informed me he would not go to lunch with me anyone.
It is unbelievably cruel and when I brought it up to him, it was of course my fault for making an issue out of it. He was just living his own life and doesn't want to feel like he is walking on eggshells.
So I had to suffer through this another 6 months before I could terminate his contract and get him out of my life.
I wish one of you could change work environments - because I know how hard it is to turn it off. He will continue to try to get a reaction out of you.... but like was posted her, pls ignore him as much as possible and convince yourself that you dont' give a shit. And let this come out in your interactions with him. Don't smile at him, don't acknowledge him, and after awhile he will not get the reaction he wants out of you and will go away, like mine finally did.
It's demeaning & devaluing behavior. He knows that you know what he's doing. And still he imposes himself on you & makes you "take it" with a smile & politely in front of the others watching. If you told him to buzz off -- you'd look bad. And he knows that. He's enjoying this. Power & domination over you.
The best revenge with these guys is no emotion. No reaction. No thought. Don't care. This irks them second only to having the mask ripped off in public for others see learn what they are.
Rinalda, I continue to deal with the same type of crap that you are dealing with. What I have learned over the last year is this:
Don't be flattered by anything he does. If he talks to you in front of her or behind her back, it's all for HIM. It's not about his feelings for your, or her, or her... They are not that complex. It's all about him.
Like me, you can't go NO CONTACT but we can go NON-REACTION. Do and say as little as you would to any co-worker but nothing more. More importantly, try and practice not reacting to him. Everything he does is about power and control. If you don't react, he has nothing.
Remember, as I do, the N doesn't want to love you, to be your friend, to have anything real to do with you (or anyone else). The N only wants others to make them feel powerful and in control.
They are nothing, fake, empty shells... waiting for our reaction to prove, once again, that they control us. It has nothing to do with how they feel for us, only how they feel about themselves.
Can't deal with the "success"
I know..me too...even though
Feel like punching something
Yep..But i truley believe if
yep, indifference is the goal
Very bad day
rinalda...
Fuzzy head
Dearest Rinalda,
Trying to leave sadness behind
oh..tell me about it rinalda
Still cannot believe this
What will help you not react
Feeling special
this is the exact same situation here
I feel for you
oh so TRUE meadowbrook
Isn't it just sickening to
meadowbrook..
moonshine
meadowbrook..
been there...
Trying to keep it together...
Since they are "perfect" in
Teflon is good for cooking!
Rinalda
Audacity?
the truth is hard to take but please listen
**LIKE**