*hanging head in shame* :(

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Anonymous (not verified)
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*hanging head in shame* :(

So...I think I need to change my username to 'few steps back'...hope everyone's weekend was good, I haven't logged in here in a few days.

I feel like I need to get some stuff off my chest, and I'm hoping some of you have been through what I've done or can shed a bit of light on the situation.

For those of you following my situation last week...I'm about a month and a half of n/c, I'm feeling pretty much completely over him, but as I 'move forward' and began to date, it wasn't easy for me.

When I'm 'in the moment' on my date or after the date, I feel good...it's when my brain goes into 'over-analyze' mode that I need to take a step back or maybe get out of the house to clear my head. Who knows...anyways, here's what occured over the past little bit.

I saw 2 date guy one more time. And well, other than the idea that he's probably just as insecure as me (and you'll see why)...here's how it went down:

-----------------------------------------------

Ok, here's the situation.

A mutual friend set me up with a 'shy, nice guy' a couple of weeks ago.

We've had 3 dates.

Date #1 - Played pool, had fun, he asked me out for dinner at the end of the date for the following night.

Date #2 - Dinner at a classy restaurant, rented a movie and watched it at his place afterwards, no kiss.

Hadn't heard from him for a few days afterwards and mutual friends urged me to send him a msg letting
him know I was interested, he seemed excited and we met for Date #3.

Date #3 - (He texted me that he couldn't wait to see me that night, yada yada.)
A few drinks on the bar side of a restaurant (as part of my suggestion), bonfire at his place afterwards,
one thing lead to another and we ended up sleeping together. It was fun, we were shy...kinda tipsy and
he was worried I'd regret it later and he didn't want me to think he was only after one thing.

(Maybe it was the booze, maybe it had been a while, either way...there was no pressure, just 2 people attracted to one another and basically we were like a couple of happy, goofy teenagers, in a good way)

In the morning he was affectionate. I was more on the shy side as what occured was out of my character. After I left and once I got home, I saw these texts from him on my
cell.

10am-ish
Him:
"Hey, had a good time last night. Hope you don't have any regrets and hope I didn't pressure you
into doing anything you didn't want to do. Have fun shopping today. By the way, you looked amazing last night"

Me:
"you are too cute, no regrets & I can't stop smiling, enjoy your Sunday ;-)"

Him:
Nice, ya I'm pretty excited, you have a good day too"

4pm-ish

Me: :-)

6pm

Me:
"my turn... hope I didn't scare you off, I have fun with you and I'd like to see you again ...anyhoo, hope your
day was good, ttyl"

--------------------------------------------------​-----------

And no reply....and now it's the following morning.
The guy's wife left him a year ago for someone else. Mutual friends after our second date were like, you need to let him know you're interested, he's insecure
right now. I'm the first person he's dated since the ex-wife split.

So it's like, if I had left it be he'd think I wasn't interested. Now it's clear I'm still interested and he's backed off or
something.

He runs his own business and is a busy guy, but it takes a few seconds to send a msg. I like the guy, we do
have fun and I didn't think this would happen, I thought he was into me.

The one friend who pressured me into contacting him again was like, you're a confident beautiful girl, life is short and sometimes you need to take risks in order to give something a little nudge or move on, they can turn out one way or the other, but at least you'll know.

Aurrrrgh. Thoughts? (Please be gentle!! lol)

movingforward (not verified)
Anonymous's picture
yep...
I completely agree on the giving up on our power thing... but at the same time, how much do we have to withstand before we let a wall down or open a window slightly... That being said, if we repeatedly turn down a man's advances, he will no doubt give up and move on to someone who is into him. I've apparantly given off the 'I'm not interested' vibe to a few nice guys, nice guys who were friend's with family members who'd later say stuff like "I'm not good enough for movingforward" or "movingforward wasn't into me"... When I said I didn't want to scare him off it was just in general after what had happened between us...we are both shy people, we've both been burnt and we both weren't looking for anyone (out there to date) however, we've met somewhat by accident and had fun together. I do agree with the posters that I need to heal, the narc and I had dated off/on for about a year and a half. 18 months to get over someone to me, feels like a long time, especially considering how short life is...a lot of opportunities can pass ya by in 18 months. If I had been married to a narc for 25 years and had his children, etc, and dealing with tremendous abuse and a divorce and splitting assets then 18 months would totally make sense... When my daughter's father and I (we were together 5 yrs) split, I focused on her and I for a year and had no interest in what was out there. The guy in-question (the guy I've been seeing) was with a girl for 5 yrs, married her... after a year of marriage he finds out she cheated a month before they married and through out their marriage. He's been alone for a year, his ex wife has moved on with the man she cheated on him with and they're expecting. So....perhaps he might need more time, he's been out of the game for a long time, really, since his early 20s... So is he going to be out there chasing down girls, no, he's not that type of a guy, like I said, we met by accident, we have a good time, there is no pressure...what happened, happened and we still want to see each other so one day at a time. Thanks for all your input, I appreciate it :)
girlfriday
girlfriday's picture
"but at the same time, how
"but at the same time, how much do we have to withstand before we let a wall down or open a window slightly..." -Not sure. I don't think it's about withstanding anything. I think it's about taking time to get to know someone. And being there for the right reasons. My other new mantra: "I am enjoying getting to know this person." I know we talk about the narcs' lightning speed, but...GUILTY! I wanted it lightning speed too. But getting to know someone really does take time. "That being said, if we repeatedly turn down a man's advances, he will no doubt give up and move on to someone who is into him." -Definitely-- Repeatedly turning down a man's advances will shut him down....Unless he's a stalker! haha. But it doesn't sound like you repeatedly turned down anyone's advances. Anyway, I'm not beating a dead horse at all. I hope things are going great and that, above all else, you are happy! I simply felt moved to respond to those statements/questions.
Used
Used's picture
movingforward
If I had been married to a narc for 25 years and had his children, etc, and dealing with tremendous abuse and a divorce and splitting assets then 18 months would totally make sense... IT took me less time to get over myexh of 31years, than it took me to get over my narc mfriend..... its has been over a year since i dropped him and tho i am in a good place today.... i am not there everyday...so i well believe that18mnths is a good yardstick... and narc was only a friend..... emotional ties are i think sometimes the hardest to cutl.by the time i divorced my husband thier were no emotional ties left.... but tho i finished it with narc, emotionally he was still there and its took nearly 13mnths for me to have a least a couple of hours go by without him popping into my head... he hasent left me yet... he just doesnt know it....i treat him like he doesnt exsist.... i play my part so well....
fooled no longer
fooled no longer's picture
Nothing to be ashamed of, we
Nothing to be ashamed of, we learn our lessons all of us as we go along. You listened to the advice and nudgings of someone who wasn't there and allowed them to pressure you into texting him within the first day to make a decisive move. The answer lies in this sentence: Me: "my turn... hope I didn't scare you off, I have fun with you and I'd like to see you again ...anyhoo, hope your day was good, ttyl" This sounds desperate and that you need an answer from him by tonight. He was probably still trying to work out how he felt. He should be making all the moves. Men are captivated by confident women who let them do the chasing in the begining. I cant see what you had said to him that led you to say "hope I didnt scare you of" Put it down to experience and remind yourself not to fall too quickly, this is why sex on the first 2 weeks at least is not good idea. You are on the road to recovery and youre bound to eat the chocolate chip cookie when you get tempted, so you did, it was delicious, and now your back on the wagon. take back control of how you feel, put yourself first. Stop cringing and know that you are woman and awesome.
girlfriday
girlfriday's picture
I'll be gentle...own your power
Well, you asked. And one of the neat things around here is that we get to hear several peoples' perspectives. So here is mine: I know that he called and you breathed a sigh of relief, but the bigger picture here is that you gave up your power. This is something that we ALL have struggled with. So narc or not, this is a big issue here on the board: Giving up our power. What does that look like? It looks like having our emotions blown about by what someone else does or doesn't do. He texts = "I'm happy." He doesn't text back immediately = "I'm sad, anxious, insecure. He must have lost interest" (less than 24 hours later). He calls = "Sigh. I'm happy again now." I know it well. But my N experience has transformed me and I now refuse to give my power over to a man. I've had some practice recently. It's an awesome freedom. Stay sober. Some of us have had a pattern of "using." Using the narc for mood-enhancement like a drug. Same ups and downs. So it's a pattern we are used to falling into with men in general. Yes, you are used to lightning speed and intensity from the narc... But get un-used to it. I hope things go how you want them to go. But pace yourself. Find your core. Your core that doesn't get blown about by what HE (whoever "he" might be) does or does not do. Men don't need nudging. You are a beautiful, smart, compassionate woman. Make him work for you. You're worth it. And if he doesn't, then he's not worth it. :-)
jen79
jen79's picture
wow girlfriend BRAVO
Bravo to that post. And it is the reminder I needed today, since I've spent the whole day cracking my head about if he is a Narc or not. But now you reminded me again with your focus back on us post. Does it matter. We need to reconnect with our core being, that is the only stability we will find in this life anyway. Everything else is even for the nicest person too much of a burden to carry, if we put our whole happiness in the palm of someone ele's hand. And you are right, if a thing is ment to be, if you are truely alligned with each other, things will be easy, you wont have to question yourself a second, he will make sure you know, he is interested.
girlfriday
girlfriday's picture
Jen79
"Everything else is even for the nicest person too much of a burden to carry, if we put our whole happiness in the palm of someone ele's hand." Well said, Jen 79. I'm so glad my post resonated with you because I know you are really struggling right now. I know the topic of "codependence" used to be taboo around here, and I don't like the stigma, but in my world the essence of "codependence" is giving up our power. Period. Narc or not. Our lives become UNMANAGEABLE when we do that. And we are all on this board because our lives had become unmanageable because we gave all our power to a narc and we're having a hard time taking it back and owning it. So it really is all about putting the focus back where it belongs. And I have been exactly where you are, cracking my head trying to figure out if he was a narc or psychopath or not. But then it occurs to me...I WOULDN'T BE SPENDING SO MUCH TIME TRYING TO FIGURE IT OUT IF HE WEREN'T.
jen79
jen79's picture
girlfriday
Very well said, its all about puting the focus back to where it belongs. And there was a life before him, where I had the ability to manage my moods without the Ndrug. And it is a very good mantra for the process of healing, to refuse to give our power back to someone else, narc or not. If not, we will be running away from life for the rest of our lives. Thats what real happiness is, isnt it? Being happy no matter what the outer circumstances are.
terri
terri's picture
Well said and so right!
Girlfriday says it quite well and really hits it on the head! MEN DON'T NEED NUDGING!! If a man is interested, and worth having, they will make it happen. I suspect that this is the advice that most of us on this board need to take to heart. The most important lesson that I've learned through my tormented relationship is that I'm absolutely worth the kind of relationship I desire and deserve - no exceptions. I think my expectations are definitely realistic and within reach with a normal, caring, healthy person and I'm so exhausted from the wasted effort of caring for a narc. And the other important lesson is that a QUALITY man will recognize confidence and self-respect in a woman - admire her and be attracted to her all the more because of it. Don't sell yourself short anymore!!

Believe in yourself!
Terri

CarolKittyGale (not verified)
Anonymous's picture
Girl Friday
Soooo agree with what you are saying here. I have wrote exactly this about myself in my journal and now I see the pattern I just don't do this any more I own my own power and I'm getting back to the person I used to be...baby steps :-)) If a man wants you he will come and get you and in the meantime there's a whole world out there with my lovely children, family and friends in it and plenty of people waiting to meet us and loads of other stuff we haven't done yet.
terri
terri's picture
CarolKittyGale
I'm SO with you on this!! Every post on the wall is exactly what I'm needing to read today.

Believe in yourself!
Terri

girlfriday
girlfriday's picture
CKG
I like hearing that :-) In my case, I didn't get back to who I used to be. I became someone I never was. And I like her :-) I had a date recently. He asked me out again. I couldn't go and said, "Maybe next week." Well, he never tried again and it's been well over a week. And I just don't care. And, unlike my old self, I'm not going to wonder why or think that maybe he assumed I wasn't interested, or that perhaps I should have called HIM to reschedule. Whatever. My new mantra..."Whatever." (He was quite hunky, too, by the way!) But....Whatever. I feel bulletproof. And like I said in another post, I'm not sure if I've been damaged or greatly healed...or both. But I think the damage healed me because I know I'm still capable of love. Just a different kind. A healthier kind. Sorry, all, for the tangent. But I think it applies in some way.
onwithmylife
onwithmylife's picture
girlfriday
I like what you had to say, I think it all boils down to self esteem about ourselves and if a guy does not call me back, i tell myself it is HIS LOSS, like i saw a guy for a few dates and did not hear back so I decide to call just once and he never called back so i am done and moving on. I think he could sense at the time that i was still not over my EXN,But I realized he was not for me also.So I am dusting myself off and moving on.i heard of a wonderful definition of self esteem, it it basically the relationship you have with YOURSELF, who and what you think you are, too many women, like you said, put all their emotional well being in a guy's basket, I did that sll the time with my EXN, if he did not answer the phone or call me back, I was devastated all day long or if he did, I felt great, I gave HIM all my power, I realize now, very foolish on my part
Briseis
Briseis's picture
Another thought
relating to what Scoop said (way down at the bottom of the thread). When you have sex with someone, you BOND with them at a deep deep level. Massive hormone storms are released that affect your brain deeply, in ways that you cannot grasp with your reason. They are beyond conscious or deliberate control. Another reason to think twice (or a million times) before you have sex with someone. The obvious problem is WHO you are getting that bond with. Besides, you aren't a piece of cheese to just give away to whoever.
Briseis
Briseis's picture
Movingforward
I don't get the impression you are "movingbackward" :D but moving forward a bit too quickly for your level of healing. Obviously, you are still completely sane, aren't in major obsession/destructive mode, but this is stressing you while you are still very fragile. I believe most of your stress and struggling is BECAUSE your level of healing is still "young". This may be a truly wonderful, good man and I have every hope for you that he is :) It's YOU that is the wild card here, because you have not spent hardly any time at all healing on your own. You might not be good for HIM . . . not because you are not "good material", I believe you are. It's where you are at at this particular place in your life. We get so focused on "is he good for ME? Is he a Narc???" and forget there is another individual in the mix, another vulnerable person, and are you good for HIM? Just food for thought, MF. I'm saying these things as suggestions for questions to ask yourself, NOT because I think you aren't good for him. Hopefully thinking some healthy, realistic thoughts will help you slow down and let your feelings catch up with you.
helldweller
helldweller's picture
movingforward
Gosh I wish I could give you some advice. I think I would say, go easy on the texts for one thing. I loathe them now, because the narc used them to control me. I look forward to a guy who can talk on the phone to me. I had just one incident. It was a few weeks ago when I had a table set up at a film festival, selling my books. It was a big horror movie thing and this actor was there who had been in some low budget film in the '80s. We were obviously attracted to each other and talked together most of the day. At about 10pm his film started, and I was surprised to find that he had gone in to watch it with everyone. Well, I was supposed to leave at ten, and I didn't quite know what to do, as I wanted to say goodbye, and we had actually talked about my coming out to New York state to sightsee with him (he is now a sculptor living there). Sounded like something to get me out of my head for a couple of days. So, I wrote him a little note saying, "Had to go at ten and missed saying goodbye. It was really nice to meet you. Hope to come out one day soon. Have a great night and a safe trip home!" The next day I emailed him on his website and said, "I looked at your site and some of your work. Beautiful!" Never heard from him again. Have no idea why, and I know at this point in my life it doesn't matter. But I do know that after I wrote him a note and sent him an email there was no way in hell I was going to try again. That, at least, is something I've learned from all this. When in doubt, back off. Remember that a normal guy loves the chase. Let him chase you.
Susan32
Susan32's picture
Normal guys love the chase
"Remember that a normal guy loves the chase. Let him chase you."- One of my friends observed that during the D&D, the ex-Psych professor WANTED me to do the pursuing, the courting. That's why he moved his seminar class multiple times. It was a role reversal in so many ways, with him being a teacher, being male, and old enough to be my father. Throughout the "relationship",he WANTED me to pursue him... and of course, if he got in trouble, it would've been MY fault. I'm sure if it had gotten sexual/romantic and he got in trouble for fraternization, he would've pointed the finger at me. In the senior skit, I starred as myself... and a classmate starred as him. It was the final scene of the skit... in the scene, I pursued him, and it got a happy ending with the both of us kissing. Well, the ex-P was in the audience, drinking beer. When that scene happened, and one of his male disciples made that observation, the ex-P bolted. When I met the OW... the ex-P ran. The OW had to pursue him down the stairs. He didn't even wait for her. Didn't introduce her to his colleagues. When the skit satirized the ex-P... the ex-P ran. As my friend said, he was ALWAYS running away. One of the ex-P's favorite characters in "War and Peace" is a general who beats a hasty retreat.
movingforward (not verified)
Anonymous's picture
true...
See, normal guys chase at a normal speed...narcs chase at warped speed and full-on. So, waiting a few days to hear from a normal guy or whatever feels like a lifetime. Loved your story though! 80s horror actor, that is awesome. Nah, you were cool...like as women are we supposed to be 'mute' and quietly wait, batting our eyelashes? See, this whole dating scene I think is mutual...not that we should go out and do the man's job. But letting them know we're interested with a little nudge can't hurt. One text isn't going to hurt anyone. A friend of mine follows this guy around to all of his concerts and waits for him after all the shows for him to talk to her, now that is a bit much. Sending one text after meeting a guy is not a big deal. A lot of guys have said to me they're pretty clueless when it comes to women. Like they don't even catch on when a woman is interested half the time...this is coming from my normal guy friends. So saying, 'hey, had fun, hope to see you again sometime' isn't so bad, then they can make the next move, i.e. the chasing. And if they don't, there's plenty more out there to choose from.
movingforward (not verified)
Anonymous's picture
he just called...
I think I'm sooo accustomed to being chased by a narc, then dumped, then chased, then dumped... that a 'normal' guy who takes his time and whatever, well it's tough to get accustomed to that. To be out of Disneyland and back on earth so-to-speak. Anyways...he's excited, I'm happy, we have fun together and I think I need to just have fun wtih this dating stuff instead of reading into it so much...although ya, we moved quickly and I'd like to still take a step back. Have a great day ladies!
wholeagain
wholeagain's picture
LOL
I figured he'd call or email sometime today...and it's GOOD that he's being normal!! Come here to vent out your anxiety about what is normal (gawd knows I go through that too) and remember one of my favorite sayings...let relationships find their own level (i.e., don't give more than you get and don't give anything you can't afford, that includes feelings!)
Used
Used's picture
wholeagain
and it's GOOD that he's being normal...... this has made me feel sad.... i so hope and pray he will get in touch with you... he could have answered the text.... he is an arsehole and has been from the beginning...he pursued you then he stopped... you then get in touch with him and end up having sex...wholeagain, you didnt hear from him b/f the the sex...you panicked then...... what will you be like if he doesnt get in touch....and sod his wife...thats history....good luck and i hope you are ok....love used... even if he ever answers i think he is more trouble than he is worth.....WHEN IN DOUBT SAY NOWT....please dont get in touch with him anymore.I DIDNT relized he had called but i still think it is too quick... maybe i have become cowardly but if anyone does anything that makes me question my self or makes me anxious.... i dont have anything to do with them anymore... i cannot handle any more of that sort of behavior any more...thats just me!!
Scoop
Scoop's picture
Used
"When in doubt say nowt " ...such a great saying xx
Scoop
Scoop's picture
you slept with him on the
you slept with him on the 3rd date ? You are only 6 weeks nc ? First of all you said it was "just a bit of fun " and then you freak out all night as he didnt text you back . I hate to sit here and watch a car crash about to happen but what are you doing ?Look i know everyone is diffrent and we all heal at diffrent rates but i cant sit here and say to you that this is all good and well done , i just cant . To heal from a narc takes months and months of hard work , you cant just jump out of the fire into the frying pan . I am 8 months no contact and have tryed dating and was just not ready , i have a date next week but thats after 8 monhts and most will say 18 months before you can stat dating , its not like me to do the tough love thing but im really worryed for you . Youre emotions can not be strong enough to handle this , well they are not because you freated about one text ... lets look at 3 months down the line when "he has had his bit of fun " and moves on there are loads of red flags here .... the line "i hope i didnt pressure you into it " .. hello that is projection if ever i heared it , and the fact that he didnt text you back .. lordy , huge red flag , ok he may be a normal guy but normal guys also act to get you into bed on the 3rd date too .. sad but very true , and then what happens to us ? we start to bond with them and all our oxytosin starts going round and before we know it we are hooked on a man who we hadly even know .... am i speaking out of turn here ?.... i dont want to burst youre bubble but alam bells are going off all over the place for me on this one . xxx
almostlydia
almostlydia's picture
Having not been out with
Having not been out with anyone at all in the last 8 mos., since the exN, and cowering (or so it felt) at home for many months, I can say I would love to have a man in my life again because no matter how much I go out with friends, it just doesn't fill that void. but at the same time, it scares the hell out of me for just this reason, I don't know what normal is anymore. I wonder if the perfect situation for us severely damaged is to go out in groups rather than one on one dates until a comfort level is established. I don't know, as I said, haven't had a date in a long long time or even seen anyone I'd be remotely interested in so far but I think I would like the comfort level of being friends first and then going from there. almostlydia

almostlydia

helldweller
helldweller's picture
almostlydia
I notice that what I lust for when I watch other people is not the dates, not the fun, not the talking even. I lust for the hand holding with someone who is comfy as an old shoe. I think a friend who becomes more is the only thing I will ever try again.
wholeagain
wholeagain's picture
Amen to that Helldweller
I was friends with the man I'm dating several years before we even held hands and I'm grateful for that. Nothing like observing a man "in the wild" for a long time before diving in. And you know, the friendship-only part was really fun and so uncomplicated, such a relief after the goat rodeo that was my marriage.