How callous are they?

remember when in the bible when Jesus spoke to a man who was possessed by EVIL and said...'what is thy name'...and the DEMON FROM HELL replied...'my name is LEGION' meaning there were many of the Demon, in different entities.........yeah...they are LEGION...all the same demon..with different names... Mike, Tom, John, Jeff..Ed... they are not human...and the are ultimately capable of ANYTHING as long as it is BAD...

PREDATORS...NOT HUMAN...SOUL SUCKING VAMPIRES... hell yes...the plan it...hell yes they enjoy your suffering...hell yes .... and hell no, they never change..unless it's into something even worse......

stop the excuses stop the magical thinking he is NOT wounded!!! He's a predator. DO NOT BE AT WORK THIS WEEK WHILE HE'S THERE. NC NC NC NC!!! And go BACK TO THERAPY!!! ~~~~~~~~~ Repetition does not transform a lie into the truth. - Franklin D. Roosevelt Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals

my comment stays the same. I knew you were talking about him and his Dad. His Dad just reinforced his pathology. That is NOT an excuse. Didn't know your serial predator even HAD children... he must be so proud of what his cavalier and exploitative behavior towards women is teach them, too. ~~~~~~~~~ Repetition does not transform a lie into the truth. - Franklin D. Roosevelt Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals

Can it really be that a person can have an agenda of pain for another and then calculatingly set about deception. HELL YES!!! EVERYTHING was a set up for me from the first hello, they all have a hidden agenda, and it sure isnt because they fell in love with us, I ask you this if they cant love another human being why go to all that trouble to pretend they can love? In the end we get our proof when they discard us how inhuman they really are, they were that way from day ONE, they just hid it

I think it is a work in progress. They are making it up as they go along. Also, the story changes depending upon who is listening & what they are seeking to extract from the listener. I have heard several versions of the end of my marriage, & why the marriage failed, that is, according to my N. The work story is different from the close friend's story, etc. Somehow he manages to compartmentalize people so there is not too much comparison between parties. I think the unifying theme for their actions is: "everything is about him & what is he getting out of the situation." I actually do think some schemes can be hatched out from the beginning. Such as a financial extraction & then discard. But, really, all Ns are about "support" whether is is money, sex, or laundry (household conveniences). And, yes, some people do have an agenda to inflict pain. Some people really get their jollies off on hurting people. And, my husband was a sadist. He would get an erection after abusive episodes. My husband deliberately set out to hurt me. I could see the hatred & contempt in his eyes. I have seen the face of evil. It's very frightening. In the end, I ran away, left everything behind. He didn't even know where I was. And, I don't think he realized that he didn't know where his wife was until 6 months after I left! That had to do with the divorce petition. When he realized I didn't want him to know where I lived, he went ballistic! He absolutely had to have my address for the sole reason that he learned he could not have it. Power & control. It's almost one year since I left & the man has never said "Hello. How are you?" Every interaction was all about him, even when he feebly tried to get me to come back (which was minimal, very minimal). And, he doesn't think about me too much. He wooed a new woman immediately. She moved into the house exactly 4 months after I left him. My possessions were still in the house because he had changed the locks (on the house I co-owned) & wouldn't let me collect my things. When she moved in, he let me get my stuff because he needed the space for her things. I found many of my possessions broken & everything rifled through & moved to the attic & the basement. It was chaos. I had no idea where my possessions were. Yes. Some people are just awful. Oh. BTW. About the new woman? Ladies. I heard from somebody who saw her last week, that after 7 months of living with him she looks very stressed & 10 years older. Her acquaintance did not even recognize her at first! They are never happier with NW. It's only a question of how much the NW is willing to put up with.

The further along you get in healing, you will start to see the whole world with new eyes. You will be so much stronger than you ever believed you could be. The further removed you get with NC, the more you will see how little what he thought matters. He's just a cartoon. An image. Hollow. Nothing. Whatever his MO, you can move forward. Time to celebrate you!

I think we are going through the same confusion.... is this a true N who can't ever be changed (therefore, kill entire relationship) or are they going through a tough period that is causing them to behave like N right now (be a friend). And maybe this is because we both believe in the good of people. I have a hard time seeing someone on the outside who seems so good in so many ways, and who truly has helped me so much in my life, and who I have been so close to for 20+ years, and who told me I was the closest person in their life. I have a hard time believing that they never really cared for me as a person (not just supply). But he too, discarded me and it seems he has never looked back (whether he secretly thinks about me, he'll never admit to it, and I'll never know - but it seems like I don't exist anymore to him). He views that as a virtue - that he is a superior human for being able to do this. I view it as hurtful and non-human. (He always said his dad was a nazi prison guard and forced his kids to march when they were little. He has no fondness for his dad. I sometimes wonder if that has something to do with this. Raising a child who is deeply callous on the inside, but on the outside seems like the friendliest person in the world) Barbara - I'd love your thoughts on that one! A twist I haven't shared yet. And just like Wallaby's post, sometimes with the threads I'm not seeing the whole story...would love to see your story posted to be able to see your whole situation or maybe point me to a post that explains most of it. But I too spend soooo much time being a detective, like you, and trying to interpret what has happened here. Because everyone who knows him loves him, his abusive behavior seems to be completely directly at me at the moment (although I know he had "serious values clashes" with his xwife and he told me when I complained about the way he was talking to me that I wouldn't believe the way he and his xfiancee talked to eachother. And they are both still good friends with him. So how could he have so many good relationships? How could all of these people not see the N? And then I try to justify it by saying "hey, he was turning 50. it is a tough time he is going through because he still hasn't settled down with someone he loves. And we put ourselves into a pressure cooker at work. That is why he is acting this way". Who knows? And I am driving myself crazy trying to figure it out. And I guess that would be my advise for you too. I've been "trying to figure things out" for about 3 years now and I never reach a satisfactory solution. The only solution I have found, lately because of this site (after I googled Dr. Jekyl/Mr. Hyde) is that he is a N; he was just using me for supply; I was part of his harem; and it also explains his Dr. Jekyl, Mr. Hyde behavior. You say you are struggling to think his words and actions were on purpose to get a reaction... I don't think mine was intentionally manipulating me; I don't think it was calculated. I think it is just the way he is (as you say, subconcious). He has just figured out how life works for him, and it is through being Mr. Nice Guy, finding vulnerabilities in women (with me, a women in a very emotionally distant marriage) and filling those voids (become emotionally attached to her because she needs it, and therefore I am helping), and therefore, as a bonus, receive an unending supply of adoration from these women. (he truly cared for me no more than he cares for his other married emotional lover) That is what fuels him. So I don't think it is callous. it is just what make life work for him. I don't think he is intentionally evil in doing this (now, this is different from the women on this board who are truly dealing with pathologicals). I just think he desperately needs alot of supply and so he seeks it and gets it. Just like the analogy many people on this board have said about the wolf who loves the sheep, for lunch. The wolf is not "evil" in eating the the sheep for lunch; it just needs to eat. And Wallaby, mine also likes to see people squirm. Just like my dad did - who I know was a N. And he tries to force me at work to make people squirm "because it is the right thing to do in negotiations". And I see evidence of him making me squirm and dating people on chemistry.com and being very slow to respond to them after a date to make himself seem more desirable. It is clear manipulation that I see with other women he is pursuing. I just couldn't see it on myself until lately. But what I DO know is that our relationship, as it is currently, is not working. And I have done everything that I know to do to fix it and try to make it the way that it was....but nothing is working. The more I try to fix it, the worse it gets. The verbal abuse, the head games, the false accusations, the every time I try to talk to him to work things out he starts raging at me (very weird reaction when someone shows you compassion). So if it keeps getting worse no matter what you do, you have to realize that you are practicing the art of insanity, and stop and do something different. Stop trying to fix it and stop trying to figure it out. So Healingnow, and I say this as maybe it will help you...... after years of me trying to figure it out....it just turned out to be years of wasted time and wasted space of emotions in my brain. So as hard as it is, try not to think about it right now. Just see it for what it was. It-was-not-working. And let it be. Go NC if you can (You may be already...again sorry I can't follow the threads) Give it some time and try not to think about it. Maybe the truth will be more revealed to you, not through over-analyzing it, but just through "osmosis".

http://www.lisaescott.com/2010/03/29/danger-ascribing-normal-human-motives-narcissists ~~~~~~~~~ Repetition does not transform a lie into the truth. - Franklin D. Roosevelt Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals

NARC'S don't feel and everything they do is aimed at bringing them something they don't have. Usually that's materially. I sincerely believe they are acutely aware that they don't have the ability to love or care about anyone. This must be disturbing and maybe on some level that hope that someone can make them feel it. They are jealous if people genuinely like us or are drawn to us. They are envious if we are successful or just plain good. Life for them is about using, benefitting and discarding when you no longer serve a purpose. Either when your resources run out or you no longer buy in to constantly stroking their ego and telling them how great they are. You've realized they are empty vessels who are incapable of nurturing and true love. Don't try to figure him out. He will be who he is and deep down he truly does hate himself. The positive for us, is that we now know the red flags and will run like hell from anyone who displays these traits in the future.