How Narcs TRAIN US to 'Keep Coming Back for More'

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#1 May 5 - 5PM
Anonymous (not verified)
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How Narcs TRAIN US to 'Keep Coming Back for More'

The Rat Game
by Kathy Krajco

In a psychological experiment, you can take a bunch of lab rats, put them in a cage, and equip it with a button that delivers a treat when they push it.

You know what happens: soon those rats will learn to push it like crazy.

Then alter the button so it sometimes delivers a painful electric shock instead of a treat. Those rats still keep pushing it.

Then alter the button some more, so that it often delivers a painful electric shock instead of a treat. Those rats still keep pushing it.

Fix it so that pushing the button almost always delivers a painful shock. Ditto.

Fix it so pushing the button always delivers a painful shock. Ditto.

Long after pushing the button never delivers a treat, those rats keep pushing that button until it kills them.

Now rats certainly don't seek pain, so what's the matter with these crazy rats?

But they aren't crazy (at least not till near the end). Or codependent ;-) They are just normal rats in a perverted world that has gone upside-down on them. In that abnormal world, their normal behavior betrays them to the opposite of what they're after.

That's because pushing the button delivered pleasure at first. If it had delivered pain at first, they'd stay away from it forever after, no matter how frequently you later set the button to deliver a treat. Even if they then accidentally discover that it sometimes delivers a treat, they will never intentionally touch it.

This is because nature hasn't equipped their brain's hard wiring (basic instincts) to accommodate such a situation. Therefore, once rats have LEARNED to associate something with pleasure, that's it. It seems desirable forever after. Since such flip-flopping perversity never occurs in the natural world, their brains aren't equipped to deal with it. Only perverted people change things so that a source of pleasure becomes a source of pain.

People react to the Rat Game the same way rats do.

Your first two weeks in a new place of work. The resident narcissist comes up to you, and though he ranks no higher than you, he gives you a job evaluation without ever having seen your work. He tells you that you have a lot on the ball.

That's your treat. Instead of asking him who he thinks he is to be judging your job performance, you are flattered and want more of what he's selling.

You'll get nothing but treats like that for awhile, and then suddenly one day you'll get a painful shock instead. When you greet him, he will give you nothing but the stink-eye and look away, refusing to speak to you.

After your shock wears off, you will suffer wondering what terrible thing he thinks you did. You will try to make him give you treats again.

But he will always be unpredictable. He will be able to get mad at ANYTHING or to praise you for ANYTHING. It's totally arbitrary, because he can make anything good sound bad and vice versa. He can judge you as "too this" or "too that" at his whim.

But you will keep pushing that button till it kills you.

A therapist taught a woman I used to know about this, because her husband abused her with it.

It's a very common game. One narcissist told me that "the best part is that you never even get to know what you did" that made him mad.

That's because it wasn't anything you did that made him mad. His anger, like all the faces he puts on, is just a pumped-up put-on to draw the reaction from you that he wants.

http://narc-attack.blogspot.com

May 1 - 11PM
Barbara (not verified)
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How Narcs TRAIN US to 'Keep Coming Back for More'

READ TOP POST ~~~~~~~~~ Moving Forward: Coaching for Victims Pathologicals Feelings buried alive never die. - Alice Miller
Feb 11 - 4PM
Barbara (not verified)
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How Narcs TRAIN US to 'Keep Coming Back for More'

READ TOP POST ~~~~~~~~~ The truth will set you free... but first it will piss you off - Gloria Steinem Visit My Abuse Website
Nov 23 - 1PM
Barbara (not verified)
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narcs train us to keep coming back for more

READ TOP POST ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off. - Gloria Steinem
Oct 8 - 8PM
baddream
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Lab Rats

That's GREAT Barbara. A great analogy. Just what I was thinking before. The women in my "N"'s life could have been the little rats in the box. Years ago I spent many years researching the response of rats in the exact boxes mentioned in your article with one difference. We were studying the response of unhealthy rats, those born to mothers who were given drugs and alcohol during their in-utero development. If the rats walked through the little door into the black side of the box they were administered the same shock mentioned in the article. A healthy rat would learn after one time to avoid the shock and never go through the door again. The unhealthy rat would take statistically longer (if ever) to learn this simple avoidance behavior. I would like to believe we were all healthy rats at the start, and then N came along and brainwashed, manipulated and abused us. As in so many forms of abuse, after a while the victims have become damaged by their abusers, ill and weakened they return to the black side of the box to have the punishment repeated over and over again. In some unfortunate cases the victims of these kinds of abusers have been abused more than once and in the past by other abusers,making them weak and predisposing them to becoming victims over and over again--- thus--the cycle of abuse.. On an intellectual level we know what is happening... we know what we have to do to make it stop. We have to remember the pain and hurt and say No More.
Oct 8 - 2PM
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

keep going back for more?

SEE TOP POST ~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Pathologicals only discard the best, most precious of gems of people... not the worst. They despise the strong, principled, decent & honest. Their discarding of you is then their highest commendation of your worth!" - A.V.
Oct 8 - 7PM (Reply to #21)
4joys (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Wow! This is really

Wow! This is really interesting. Makes a lot of sense as to why we kept trying. I'm so glad I ended contact with this sick ****! He would still be doing this to me as long as I let him.
Aug 6 - 10PM
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

cynthia - the above is a must read for you

SEE TOP POST ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Articles & information for abuse victims - Updated Daily Online Coaching for Victims of Narcissists/ Psychopaths
Jul 16 - 9AM
insectt (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

I'm starting to become 'untrained'. yay!

Yes. I did everything even helping him buy a house. Now that we live together, the devaluation has begun. He says he feels like he lives whith his mother. He stays at his new NS almost every night. He tells me "it's different with her" and "she doesn't cause stress in his life." I say "of course not, you've only known her for a month and you haven't done to her what you have done to everyone else, yet." His reply "you're right i havent done to her like others. that's called "building a new relationship with someone"." But I keep pressing the button once in a while even though I KNOW I will get shocked. Frustrating.
Jul 16 - 10AM (Reply to #18)
quietude (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

untrained

Sounds like you're really 'in the know' re: his behavior and how unacceptable it is. Good for you! That being said, it doesn't make the pain any easier. What a creep, makes no sense in that statement...as usual! Starting a new relationship and so open about it...just...WOW! It's never ending frustration living with an N. I feel lucky I've managed to get the hell away and hang on to some sanity!
Jul 16 - 3AM
liselotte
liselotte's picture

I remember in the end

I remember in the end screaming at him; Don't throw this back at me!! Yeah.. I already got it then, but couldn't see how sick it all was...
Jul 16 - 1AM
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

more for cupcake

READ TOP POST ON THIS THREAD ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Articles & information for abuse victims - Updated Daily Online Coaching for Victims of Narcissists/ Psychopaths
Jun 25 - 4PM
Amy
Amy's picture

exactly...

I kept trying to go back to the first year or 2... When things were "great". :-/ Always tried to make him happy to get those crumbs of acknowledgement. And that's how he got me to do more and more things that I didn't want to do - just so I could make him happy. So sickening... Amy
Jun 16 - 8PM
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

whatever - you have been trained, you are not pathetic

so deprogram - NO CONTACT! ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
May 21 - 5PM
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

when we keep going back for more

~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
May 6 - 4PM
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

deprogramming

Once we figure them out and start to De-Train (deprogram) they berate us, devalue us and we are no longer useful to them. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Cost-Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
Jun 18 - 6PM (Reply to #5)
grossot
grossot's picture

yes!

I love Barbara's direct approach! BTW Barbara I will take your advice on sending judges orders to my mortgage lender. Couldn't hurt, right? At least there will be hard evidence that I was in communication with them. I'm so glad you said this about what happens when we figure them out. I think he resents me b/c I told him he was a narc and he knew something was wrong with him but didn't care to figure it out. He hates that I 'got it'. At the time I still naively thought he could read some literature on narcissism and magically change. I wish I had never told him what I thought of him. This is when the real torture and hatred began....explains so much..... Be kinder than necessary to everyone you meet; for everyone is fighting some kind of battle - anonymous- :o) nolongercontrolled
Jun 18 - 8PM (Reply to #6)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

grossot

many of them either have no clue they are Narcs or deny it outright... of course there's those like my exNH who accuse YOU of being the Narc (projection) so telling them they are Narcs is NEVER a good idea (I learned that the hard way) what they hate hate hate is when you figure out their: - inability to empathize - lack of any genuine feelings - inability to love - fear of intimacy - projection - gaslighting - that they aren't dealing with reality at ALL - they are devaluing & degrading you When you have that "A-HA!" moment you start to take back a little of yourself and your dignity and they HATE that. For everyone else, NEVER EVER think you should tell them what they are or what you think of them until all legal matters, divorce, etc is SETTLED. It's NEVER, I repeat NEVER EVER a good idea with a pathological. grossot - make sure your lender has the judge's orders (everyone should do this when a judge decides who is to pay what) - and anyone else he was ordered to pay - such as utilities, doctors, anyone! as well as his current contact information on him. You should NOT be fielding this crap for him, you already did that for too long when you were married. And let your lawyer know about his "suggestions" regarding the mortgage, etc. ALL of them. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
Jun 25 - 9AM (Reply to #8)
cynthia (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

closure to move on

new to the site at the tale end of the horrible experience, my story is no different than the rest, my pain and damage is no different from the rest, maybe someday i will tell the tale (and thats what it was a fairy-tale) but for now I read alot of the posts and absorb and learn. I more than anything want him to know I knew all his lies, all his psycho forms of manipulation he thought he was getting away with while laughing at me behind my back probably saying, "she is sooo easy", I more than anything want him to know he wasnt so smart, or clever, or this or that and I have been on to him for soooo long because now I walk away looking like a complete idiot who was swindled,conned,and mind raped. So you fold in the cards and say, OK I FOLD, I WAS HAD? I want HIM to be conned and fooled to see what it feels like after all isnt that narcisstic injury at its best? Then they take their little act on to someone else until the same things happens. Their lives are really funny when you stop to think about it, they think they can fool us forever (the damage isnt funny for us, it was HELL) but when you stop to think about how they live their lives as predators, they pretend they love you, promise you the world, rape you, (and thats what it was really) They are little messed up cowards that put this front on of how wonderful they are and thats the way they go thru life,always looking over the horizon for new victims he can fool. Most of my pain is behind me but it took almost two years and I will never be what I was, a part of me is better than what I ever was, but at such a high cost, wish i could tell him your life is a scam, and fraud but I will get thru this phase too.
Jun 26 - 1AM (Reply to #11)
Lisa E. Scott
Lisa E. Scott's picture

Cynthia

Welcome to our forum! We are so glad you are here. I totally know how you feel. It's maddening, isn't it? At least you see him for who he is now and are starting to move out of the immense pain of it all. It does take awhile, but you sound very wise and very certain of what happened and what you want going forward. Keep it up and know we're here for you. Big Hugs, Lisa
Jun 25 - 11AM (Reply to #10)
quietude (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

cynthia

welcome! Exactly, you won't get closure from them. Any form of closure comes from 'us'. Unfortunatly with a narc, you can't depend on them for a valid explanation as to why they do these things to us. It's all BS. It's important that we get a lot of support and validation. The aftermath of a N relationship requires deprogramming. You're not alone, victims can spend many years working through the pain, and you're right - I think some of it will always be there. Hopefully, this experience has shown...or will show me enough to be able to spot the red flags down the road. The really good news in all this is that he's gone. He will never be happy, but you're nothing like that warped, twisted-reality person, and certainly have the capability to build a happy future.
Jun 25 - 10AM (Reply to #9)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

cynthia

you will NEVER - I repeat NEVER get closure from a Narcissist or Psychopath. Ever. http://allabouthim.com/victim-quotes-about-the-narcissist-in-their-life/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
Jun 19 - 12AM (Reply to #7)
neveragain
neveragain's picture

"Projection" is right!!

Every time you think you can see what's going on and speak it out loud, the N can immediately, in a nano-second, twist it and turn it right back on YOU. It's certainly a way of keeping you completely off balance and second guessing yourself. It's mental and emotional torture. They're NEVER going to own up to what they're doing. It's ALWAYS going to be your fault and "your own mental instability that's going on". Grasping onto truth and reality becomes a surreal, desperate act of self preservation. TELLING them what they are is not going to EVER be a good idea. You cannot expect their minds of ever being able to grasp the truth. DON'T EVEN TRY IT! It's emotional suicide. Despite the fact that they ALL say they are going to change....it's not ever, ever, ever going to happen. The sooner we accept that, the sooner we can get out and get on with our lives. The whole time they're spinning you around, you are seeking the solace and comfort in their love. You will say and do almost ANYTHING to get that back. It's a dark dance and will leave you near a spiritual death. It's time to open your eyes and realize that they are incapable of ever, EVER having anything CLOSE to the resemblance of a normal relationship. The "A HA!" moment is where the insight, wisdom, reality but extreme sadness happens. It's when you realize that your hopes and dreams are not just dashed, they're shattered. The only way to escape the insanity is to remove yourself from and not particiate in the dance with the devil. Not reacting, not feeding (in any way) the beast, becoming non-plussed and robotic in your communications is the ONLY way to break the spell. To everyone reading this: I am so sorry you have been exposed to and have had the unfortunate fate of dealing with this seriously damaging man/(woman) in your life. Thank goodness that now we have a name and a label to place there: All Narcissistic/Pyschopathic people do not belong in our lives! Let's continue to learn about this, talk about it and find way better ways to invest our love. Let's start with loving ourselves. I'm worth way more than the crumbs I was getting from him. neveragain
May 10 - 2AM (Reply to #2)
fairy wings
fairy wings's picture

the rats!

Thank you, Barbara, for this article about the rats and programming. I have never been able to explain this even to myself let alone to anyone else. I know I will use this as an illustration again in future, thank you.
May 10 - 8AM (Reply to #3)
better off
better off's picture

Yeah, this article was very

Yeah, this article was very helpful. It has given me both strength to continue forward, as well as helping me stop beating myself up for wanting to talk to him again. Sometimes I just hate myself for not being able to completely forget about it and write it off. But this made me understand more how that pull still exists and to simply recognize it when it happens and put it in a box and go on. I thought it was interesting that it noted that nothing else in nature "behaves" in this manner...something that is rewarding doesn't turn into something that is punishing in the natural world, and our system doesn't know how to process it.
May 10 - 10AM (Reply to #4)
fairy wings
fairy wings's picture

Something you said........

Hi Better off, something you said really resonated with me that sometimes you think that maybe he didn't do that much wrong, maybe you just saw it this way after reading here. I know I felt the same and I kept blaming myself and thinking maybe I just got it wrong because after all what he did was nothing much when you tried to 'put your finger on it', however when ever I contacted him or went back I was quickly reminded of the reality of what he did. It was suble and as Lisa has said insidious, however with distance it gets clearer and clearer. Never doubt yourself. Would you rather trust you, who you have known all your life or his version of the reality you shared?