It's been one year 4 days

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#1 May 5 - 10PM
Anonymous (not verified)
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It's been one year 4 days

since he D&D.

Am I healed? NOOOOOO

But I am no longer in excruciating emotional pain. I am not the woman I was before. In some ways I am better, however mostly just a shell of my former self.

Everything overwhelms me. I cry easily.... even cried today. BC I work in the mental health field I am triggered by my patient's weekly. I do evaluations of patient's who may/may not have brain damage. Unfortunately there's a population of them that are not truthful and their deception and often rudeness and narcissistic behavior is so triggering for me. It happended again today. I came home ... jumped in bed and cried.

This is not normal.

I thought at one year out I would be back to my happy go lucky self, dating... seeing all the beauty in life again. But no.

I recently started a benzo ---- definitely didn't want to take a med... but my nervous system is always on overdrive so I want to give it a break. Unfortunately the med makes me so sleepy. I am trying to play around with the dose so that I can be calm, however awake.

IDK if there are others out there like me who's a year or more out. Am I the only one still feeling like this. I'm not in pain... I'm just a mixture of apathy or extreme anxiety. Those seem to be my primary emotional states.

Could he have damaged me that badly?

I worked very hard (and long) for my degree and have been in the field for a while (about 10 yrs)..... however I am beginning to wonder if my job makes it such that I can't live the gentle life. Seeing narcs, antisocials, histrionics, and borderlines on a weekly basis (about 2/ week) is SO triggering for me...words just cannot explain it. Even though technically I am in the power position as 'doctor' -- they tend to test my boundaries and are either extremely superficially nice trying to manipulate me OR rude/ disrespectful and I have to become very stern and lay out my boundaries explicitly. That's tough when being a hard ass and confrontational is not part of your natural character.

I feel stuck again. In many ways I love my job........ however I am wondering if my job is what is currently tearing me apart exposing me to these extreme pathologicals weekly. (By the way the cognitive evaluations require that I spend 4 hour time spans with each patient individually one on one the whole time.... so, it's not like a 20 minute visit and they're gone). By the end of the day (like today) I feel exhausted, triggered, anxious and for some reason tearful.

Help.......... please please tell me that this gets better.

:o(

May 8 - 10PM
neveragain5
neveragain5's picture

Hi Jessika, Are you an

Hi Jessika, Are you an empath, by chance? I am a HSP and have been dealing with triggers for years. I just didn't recognize it them as triggers. I just knew that my reactions to things weren't on the same level as others. Where most people are dialed into others at a level 5 out of 10, I tend to be dialed into others at between 8-10. When I first started out in my career, I was in corporate management. I was doing well, but I just couldn't be a hard-ass and keep others down to get ahead. I didn't want to go to work and pretend to be something I wasn't, it brought down my confidence and exhausted me. After thinking about what really made me happy, I went into childcare. For the most part, I love what I do, but I have been in a lot of situations where I see things I don't want to see. My boundaries are constantly being pushed and I am often treated like an indentured servant. I have worked for, (now what I recognize as), two N's. Thinking back, I believe that I idealized working with children and didn't see the pitfalls of having to deal with the adults. Right now, I am looking for another career path and feel stuck for so many reasons. I am so scared to get into another situation where I am miserable. At this point, all I can dream of is a normal working environment with the occasional and reasonable amount of frustration. Like you, I have swung between being anxious and just being, for years. There are times when I am happy and try to have a generally positive outlook, but one negative interaction with a person can ruin my day. The only way I can see that changing is by working on my reactions to things and trying to find a healthier environment. Is there another direction that you can take your work and your experience where there are more positive interactions with people? Where you don't have to constantly deal with the intrusion of their negativity?
May 9 - 12AM (Reply to #12)
Jessika (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Thank you

Cynthia and Neveragain (btw... hugs Cynthia--- so great to hear from you :o) Yes- Neveragain.... I definitely consider myself an empath. I posted about that approximately a month ago... bc my hpersentitivity and "feeling" everyone is too much sometimes. So- you're the same way huh. Yes, it's awful how people who are pathological can just ruin our happiness that day- even with brief encounters with us. I know-- I feel the same way. Until the abuse I endured with that N bastard I was with ... I was pretty much never bothered by the interactions I had with my patients. I was able to handle it. However, now if I get an N or some other pathological character (which of course is par for the course for my line of work) I REALLY get triggered. I am trying right now to figure out if there is another direction I can take my career in. If I knew for sure that this was temporary (my reactions) and in about 6-12 more months I will calm down/ not be triggered - then I would stick it out and not look for other alternatives. However, i have no guarentee of that. This may be how it's going to be and I can't live like this. Because of my work I will continue to see these type of characters on a weekly basis; and if not the patient themselves- then the personal injury lawyers I have to meet with (these guys/gals- often interact in overly assertive, manipulative, boundary crossing ways, too. They all remind me of my ex. He was a very powerful, dominant, aggressive guy and I get so triggered when I am exposed to that. As far as the patient's I certainly try to keep them in reality and the professional 'doctor patient interaction' and of course let them know they cannot come into my office, take over, and make me uncomfortable. stand It makes the job more exhausting. but Who want's to walk in on Monday morning.. feeling positive and looking forward to the week and in your office walks a narc who tells you that rather than allowing us to get down to business starts off with comments like , "You're hot for a doctor" and even though you introduce youself as "Dr. X" they immediately say, "nice to meet you Jessika" .... then this just goes on and on throughout the 4 hour session... little flirts here and there.. "oooo I see you aren't wearing a wedding ring" "Wow am I lucky to get to spend some time with you!" Now me being different this year bc of PTSD feel that they are treating me like an object and not being respectful and so the boundary battle begins. On a couple of occasions they have crossed my boundaries so significantly that I have told them that one more comment and I will be putting them out. So yes... I hate that I am being chased out of my career bc of narcs/ crossing boundaries. I know it may sound minor and makes you think- "oh that's no big deal just suck it up." But I am trying to heal. I have been having less intrusive thoughts and when I go to work and have a few of these guys weekly it puts my ex strongly right back in the forefront. Then for some reason I start feeling all overwhelmed and at the end of my day I'm under the covers crying. Not to mention...there are a few colleagues who are narcs too. WHY do they always feel they have the RIGHT to comment on what you are wearing... how your hair looks or whatever!! Who the F--- are they!!!! One of the docs did that to me a couple of weeks ago and I responded with something like, "it's inappropriate to comment on my outfits... I really don't like it." Rather than apologizing he asked me what was MY problem!! ((FYI-- I always dress professionally))) Often times wearing my hair up in a bun rather than out. However-- so what if I decided to wear my hair out/ curled. I should be able to do that without setting off their dead brains. I'm tired... just tired of these deformed beings in this world... in my life! I dont live a gentle life. My life is full of them everyday... except when I hide in my house on weekends. However, I am back surrounded by several of them on Monday. I'm going to brain storm on where I can use my skills as a neuropsychologist... something where I won't have much patient contact (for a while at least)--- I just don't think I have an alternative. I think I would like the work of a flourist... surrounded by beauty....... calmness. MMMMmmmmmmmmmm sounds so nice!! :o/
May 11 - 6PM (Reply to #48)
Healingnow
Healingnow's picture

Jessika

Hi, Why not try to work with the narc/p/s victims then. That would not be so triggering and more rewarding.
May 11 - 11PM (Reply to #52)
Jessika (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Thank you so much for the

suggestion Healingnow. Only thing is that I am not trained at all in therapy. Neuropsych is more associated with brain functions so all of my patients have some type or suspected to have some type of cognitive disorder... my week consists of evaluation of traumatic brain injury, adult ADHD evals (many narcs here), evals of cognitive problems related to multiple sclerosis/ stroke/ etc, memory disorders (for whatever reason--- some even emotionally related), personality evaluations on patient's that the neurologists are confused as to why treatment isn't working (many narcs here) and the docs are feeling manipulated and that they may have an risky (drug seeking/ dominant/ manipulative patient on their hands and they want me to tell them what the heck is going on; dementia evals-- all types - Alzheimer's, stroke, etc. SOooooooo essentially any neurological or emotional condition that could impact cognition- I am the one who evaluates them. This can wear a sensitive person out, bc you never know who is going to walk in your door So of course with such patient's.... there are MANY patient's with personality disorders (all of the personality disorders- not just the cluster B's). Then, like I said... for many of the head trauma cases I there is litigation and many of the personal injury attornies during my depos certainly demonstrate narc behavior given the way ther interact with me, cross boundaries, and become a bit disrespectful. Long story short.... I have no therapy expertise to see patient's in that way. There are definitely some neuropsychologist who are ALSO trained as therapy-- lucky for them-- however I'm not one of them :o) Bc I am so open, empathic, 'sweet' as people have labeled me (grrrrr), it can be exhausting maintaining the necessary boundaries you have to keep during these 4 hour evals. You have to be in charge, however empathic, AND in tuned with what's going on with the patient so that you can go through your own cognitive processes of figuring out what is going on. When you have a psychopath, narc, borderline, histrionic, etc..... it's distracting to my own thought processes and I have to exert EXTRA energy to keep them in line/ maintain boundaries to protect myself from their disrespect and inappropropriate comments (i.e., "this is stupid"; "you look like just a kid- IDK if I want you as my doctor"; "Are you married"; "Can I take you out"; "Why are you looking at me like that!"; "Oooooo a sexy doc"; "Yo Jessika" (it should be Dr X- grr); or "Get me some coffee"; "get me a blanket it's cold in here", "awww it's nice to see a poor person make it in the world"--- they assumed bc I am non-white I grew up poor- ughhhhh; "who came up with these dumb tests anyway." "you don't look like a doctor"; "don't you think those shoes are a bit too high"; "you're such a nice girl... you should come and work for me and my husband in my house" (as her HOUSEKEEPER!!!!! How many people say that to their female doctor?!?!?!)----- So- when you get that all week long AND you have the job of evaluating them- which all by itself is taxing, bc it's not an easy job--- you just feel burnt out and OVER IT. :o( Perhaps I'm just a bit worn out and since my horrible horrible psychopath (mine was not a merely a narc... he was further up the spectrum)... after all that I need a break from them all for a few months. However, having to see characters who behave just like him on a weekly basis is triggering!! Sorry Healingnow--- LOL- I talk WAAAAAAAY too much!!! :p
May 11 - 8PM (Reply to #49)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

healingnow

sorry to tell you but doing that can be VERY triggering... ... and then there's the whole issue of Compassion Fatigue ~~~~~~~~~ Moving Forward: Coaching for Victims Pathologicals Feelings buried alive never die. - Alice Miller
May 11 - 11PM (Reply to #50)
Jessika (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Yeah

I would agree... hearing stories of their pain would only put me in my head and think of the pain I experienced. THAT would be extremely overwhelming as well. Thankfully, I have no therapy expertise. Honestly,if I were a therapist/ general psychologist I don't think I would have been able to go back to work. I would have been an "impaired pratitioner"--- no good of course.
May 12 - 6AM (Reply to #51)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Jessika

Tell me about it! thankfully I have learned to separate it (most of the time) ;) ~~~~~~~~~ Moving Forward: Coaching for Victims Pathologicals Feelings buried alive never die. - Alice Miller
May 10 - 11PM (Reply to #44)
better off
better off's picture

Jessica, is it possible for

Jessika, is it possible for you to teach? Maybe that's a direction you could go in to get away from dealing with actual patients. And you have a lot of experience, so you would have a lot to offer students going into the field. I hate to tell you... but being a florist is kind of stressful, lol.. flowers are beautiful, customers not always. ;) I was teaching preschool, and I had to stop. The emotional drain was more than I could bear. Unsurprisingly, I am an empath as well, and it took so much from me, caring for all those children, and dealing with some of their emotional problems, and I had one totally insane parent that nearly drove me off a ledge. Most of the teachers where I worked, well, I just don't think they cared very much. But they didn't burn out either. Anyway, I didn't have a triggering job, as in dealing with people like the N, but I did have a job that took more than I could emotionally bear when I was taking an emotional beating in my personal life as well. I think it's very possible your job is one of the reasons you aren't moving forward. And the other beauty of finding a new career path if you can... is that the process of entering a new environment, learning a new job, etc... it fills your mind with new things, your brain is getting wired to do the new things... it helps put the past IN the past. I would really encourage you to explore other options. It can't hurt to try!
May 11 - 11PM (Reply to #47)
Jessika (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Better Off

LOL-- at your comment regarding being a flourist is stressful bc of the clients--- darn!!!! People ruin everything. One of my colleages said something similar to me, He said- "neuropsych would be great... if it weren't for the patients" ---- he was referring to when he has psychopaths, narcs, borderlines, obsessive personality disorders- etc.... the very difficult demanding one! This is going to sound so so shallow.... but unfortunately teaching would be such a HUGE pay decrease. Even at the university level (I looked into it). I make more now than my professors who taught me at my university and they have been doing it for > 15 years. I agree with you... I think my job is the reason I am not making further gains and yet again spinning my wheels. YES Better-off... I am definitely going to explore other options.. I have to- for my sanity. Or else next yr this time I will be writing "It's been 2 years and still I'm unhappy and can't move forward"--
May 11 - 9AM (Reply to #45)
neveragain5
neveragain5's picture

Better Off

What are you currently doing for work? Do you enjoy it? I work with children now and am BURNT. Love the children aspect, but after my N of 4 1/2 years, I ended up working for a N. Hello?!! I need to get out of childcare and FAST! I'm in school now, but I need to make a decision soon.
May 11 - 11PM (Reply to #46)
Jessika (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Good questions Better Off

What career are you in currently? Did it bring you peace?
May 9 - 1AM (Reply to #13)
neveragain5
neveragain5's picture

Hi Jessika, "I know it may

Hi Jessika, "I know it may sound minor and makes you think- "oh that's no big deal just suck it up." H*ll no, it doesn't sound minor! You have the right to live a good and happy life and it isn't fair, that people that aren't respectful of you, steal your light! Just because other people are envious of a vibrant person, doesn't mean that they can capitalize on it. There is nothing just in that! Also, thank you for going into more detail about what you go through on a daily basis. It is awful and the recuperation is awful too. I have put so much of my happiness and personal life on hold because of the set-backs that my interactions have had with bosses and in dating. I am ready to break the cycle! :) Whether you will feel better in 6-12 months, I dont know. After my relationship of 4 1/2 years with a man that was Narcissistic, (we lived together), it seemed like I couldn't get away from these people. With every bad experience, I sunk lower and lower. Thankfully, I am pretty resilient and never sunk to a level that was truly debilitating, (i.e. lost a job, my home, my physical health, etc......are you resilient too? "So yes... I hate that I am being chased out of my career bc of narcs/ crossing boundaries." Oh YES, I can relate! I feel like my joy in what I do has been killed by the people that I have worked for. I work with special needs children and the satisfaction I have gotten in the past is not making up for the constant bullying and disrespect for me as a person. At this point, my body and quality of life is telling me to make a change and I guess the only thing you can do is listen to what your gut is telling you. It is REALLY hard after investing so much of yourself, to walk away. Especially if you have a passion for what you do. Let me know how you're doing. If you want, feel free to get my email from Barbara, if you need to vent or want an ear. :)
May 9 - 2AM (Reply to #14)
neveragain5
neveragain5's picture

OMG! I just read your empath

OMG! I just read your empath post! SO many on here! I felt stupid bringing it up. People already think it's creepy enough when I "read their mind"! :)
May 9 - 8PM (Reply to #15)
Jessika (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

LOL

Neveragain--- no one on here would find the fact that you can "read their mind" as creepy. I certainly understand!! ;o)
May 9 - 11PM (Reply to #43)
neveragain5
neveragain5's picture

;)

;)
May 9 - 10PM (Reply to #16)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Narcs find empaths creepy

My ex-N considered my empathy creepy. It seriously creeped him out. Especially when I congratulated him on his engagement... and NOBODY had told me. Not anyone in his close circle of friends. I simply sensed it. He said he felt "violated." When I told him that I felt what he felt, that's when I turned the tables. He who had once reduced me to tears was now the one crying about being "imposed on" and me being "intrusive"....
May 9 - 10PM (Reply to #17)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

maybe that's YOUR experience but it's not everyone's!

most Narcs LOVE empaths.... best supply ever!!! the majority do not find them "creepy" in the least! "Empathy is commonly defined as one’s ability to recognize, perceive and feel directly the emotion of another. Since the states of mind, beliefs, desires, of others are intertwined with their emotions, one with empathy for another may often be able to more effectively define another’s mode of thought and mood. Empathy is often characterized as the ability to “put oneself into another’s shoes” or to in some way experience the outlook or emotions of another being within oneself, a sort of emotional resonance.” But Wikipedia goes on to say something more about the issue of the empathy, “Empathy is also a concept recognized as “reading” another person. Often, an empath can quite literally feel the emotions of another person or persons.” Many of the women in the research, have talked about how they feel the emotions of someone else—especially the ‘wounded psychopath’. When people have this level of empathy they are often referred to as “empaths” or are said to be “empathic.” The issue of these women as empaths deserves more attention because it appears that their high levels of empathy may be pointing to something even more intrinsic to their nature. To understand how empathy and empaths are connected, here is a blurb from www.blogxero.com: Empaths are highly sensitive. This is the term commonly used in describing one’s abilities to (sense) another’s emotions and feelings. Empaths have a deep sense of ‘knowing’ that accompanies empathy and are often compassionate, considerate, and understanding of others. Empaths often possess the ability to sense others on many different levels. From their position of observing what another is saying, feeling and thinking they come to understand the other person. They can become very proficient at reading another person’s body language and/or study intently the eye movements. While this in itself is not empathy, it is a side-shoot that comes from being observant of others. (Authors Note: Ironically, this seems to be what the psychopath himself can also do—intently study eye movements, body language and be an intense observer of others, yet he does not have empathy.) Empaths are often very affectionate in personality and expression, great listeners and counselors (and not just in the professional area). They will find themselves helping others and often putting their own needs aside to do so. They are highly expressive in all areas of emotional connection and talk openly, and, at times, quite frankly about themselves. Empaths have a tendency to openly feel what is outside of them more so than what is inside of them. This can cause empaths to ignore their own needs. People of all walks of life are attracted to the warmth and genuine compassion of empaths. Even complete strangers find it easy to talk to empaths about the most personal things. It is as though the person knows instinctively that empaths would listen with compassionate understanding.” Women who tested this high in empathy may have been raised by adults or parents who were pathological and/or addicted. Children raised by narcissists and psychopaths learn early on how to cater to the needs of the pathological parent in order to avoid punishment or wrath. Remember that one of her traits may be to “avoid punishment.” If this was set up as an early childhood behavior pattern because she learned that the wrath of pathologicals was to be avoided at all costs, her bundle of cooperation traits were likely produced in that environment. After all, it would be smart and safer for a child to be highly cooperative in a household that was being run by a pathological parent. The trait and skill of empathy in that environment would be emotionally safeguarding to the child, if the child could figure out how to empathize with the pathological parents instead of hating and fighting with them. The art of empathy was probably very helpful to the child. If she was raised in a home with a mentally ill, or otherwise pathological parent, her skills in cooperation were probably created at a very early age. Empathy has made her a sensitive partner, a good listener, and a target for psychopaths. She has more empathy than 97% of everyone else, so she can put herself in a psychopath’s shoes with genuine concern. Her empathy is like a drug that the psychopath uses to feed his need for power and dominance. Although she may not realize it, the psychopath doesn’t need her empathy, but uses it to maintain power over her emotions and dominance over the relationship. This could be said for any of her temperament or character traits—they are all tools and weapons in the hand of a psychopath. Just what can too much empathy do in the hands of a psychopath? It can keep her tied to the relationship way past the point of sanity. Add some of the other traits she has and she has a steadfast connection to the psychopath that is not easily broken. This steadfast connection is what confuses her family and even her therapist. Any psychopath can use his own sad history to hook her into his long term plans for her by playing the empathy card. Feeling for his personal situation and even “sensing” that he is disordered can pull the heart strings to keep her there. She with all that empathy has the best possible chance of reaching him, touching him, and helping him grow into the potential she sees in him. Yes, all that empathy is indeed a manipulative tool in the psychopath’s hand. The obvious question is, “If she’s empathic why didn’t she know what she was feeling from the psychopath was fake?” As strong as her quality is as a genuine empath, it is no match for the con artist psychopath. The ability to make an empathic feel strongly about his false stories is probably no more shocking than how psychopaths con psychiatrists and other forensic professionals who are supposed to know what psychopathic behavior is all about. Unfortunately, the psychopath is “smarter than we are empathic” and he can abuse absolutely any positive trait that will benefit the con he is involved in. Sandra Brown, MA – WOMEN WHO LOVE PSYCHOPATHS (excerpts) ~~~~~~~~~ Moving Forward: Coaching for Victims Pathologicals Feelings buried alive never die. - Alice Miller
May 9 - 11PM (Reply to #41)
aceonelady
aceonelady's picture

what do they gain long term?

What i don't get it is why if they found a source of empathy.a person that treats them right,help them even accept their flaws why do they dump us? mine always told me that what he liked about me was that i spoke my mind without judgement...and the same person when he dumped me said he couldn't stand anymore us being around each other even as friends because he said i didn't like the way he was....and that he did't trust me...And i was the only that helped him when he had to leave his house due to problems with his 15 year old daughter,and was on the phone with him day and night when he was having a terrible ordeal and was really on the edge to commit suicide,with a gun on his head while on Skype calling me to say goodbye....And now since a year and a half he is NC on me....and his life is miserable and he still pretend everything is fine....A twisted sense os security,he is delusional...while we were together he didn't drink,his weight went down because i eat very health due high blood pressure and diabetes,he also wanted to quit smoking now he gained 40 pounds in 6 months,is drinking rum,(pure)talking about his desires to smoke pot again(but he can't because of his job test them for that)no friends,only sees his kids once in 15 days 5 minutes when he brings money to his EX,his mother died and he never contacts his amily....always on the internet,porn,gaming,chatting....he works,is the only good thing in his life,but he is complaining about he is very underpaid,and that hes co workers move up and he doesn't....well his co workers treat people better than he does,are HUMAN and i think he is not....but sometimes i really feel sorry for him,he destroy peoples life incluiding his too...is a pity his iq is very high but no EQ at all..only rage envy and pain....i am sorry for All of us that loves him or loved incluiding himself...what a waiste...and so much pain...

Aceonelady

May 10 - 6AM (Reply to #42)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

aceonelady

they don't care about LONG TERM they are caught in their own delusion reality which only sees RIGHT NOW ~~~~~~~~~ Moving Forward: Coaching for Victims Pathologicals Feelings buried alive never die. - Alice Miller
May 9 - 11PM (Reply to #19)
neveragain5
neveragain5's picture

Definitely not mine! I am

Definitely not mine! I am "prime rib" to these d*ckholes and trust me, that's not bragging. Two N bosses, countless dates, two N boyfriend's, (that I know of) and a few ex-friends....I am DONE! You don't know how many times I just wanted to not feel other people. As I got into my 30's, I have been able to control it more, but childhood through 30's...very hard to deal with.
May 10 - 6AM (Reply to #40)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

neveragain5

I'm with you baby! ~~~~~~~~~ Moving Forward: Coaching for Victims Pathologicals Feelings buried alive never die. - Alice Miller
May 9 - 11PM (Reply to #20)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Red flags for a Narc...

I've been seeing a man casually (it's not serious,we're just friends, thank goodness he's not rushing things) He's been very nice... we have similar backgrounds. I'm keeping my pointers out in case he's a Narc on the make. I'm not feeling very trusting...
May 9 - 11PM (Reply to #21)
neveragain5
neveragain5's picture

Susan32

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you, Susan. Hopefully, things will work out for your guys. Every one of these ladies and men deserve happiness.
May 9 - 11PM (Reply to #22)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Eerie similarities

These similarities creeped me out- 1)Well,he was a vegetarian in the past...x-N made a BIG DEAL about how he was KIND TO THE ANIMAL KINGDOM. 2)Age difference, mainly. 3)Some of the "mirroring." 4)he's a professor's son. On the brighter side- 1)He doesn't cut me down constantly. Not bossy. 2)Likes seeing me happy. I just don't want this to be a Jekyll/Hyde thing. But we've been pretty emotionally intimate, so far... even talking about past relationships... He's a therapist. He knows what NPD is. He's got the DSM.* *No professional code is being violated.
May 10 - 10PM (Reply to #31)
better off
better off's picture

I can see red flags right

I can see red flags right now... you're already "pretty emotionally intimate" though you say you are "just friends." When you are pretty emotionally intimate with a man, then you are more than just friends. And if you're talking about past relationships, can I assume you've talked about the N relationship? We give too much away in the beginning, it gives N's material with which to manipulate us. Being a therapist certainly doesn't make him someone to trust (by virtue of the fact that he is a therapist). Neither does knowing what NPD is. The devil knows he's the devil, doesn't he? The fact that he was a vegetarian...IN THE PAST. But not NOW. So... it was a fad? Or he recreates his personality as he sees fit? That bothers me most of all. That's a sign. What about "some mirroring?" Any mirroring and I'd be running for the door. What does that mean, in this case? How is he mirroring you? Of course he's not cutting you down constantly. That's not how you treat new supply. That's how you treat old supply. ;) So what's with the older guy thing? Is that typical for you? He just sounds too much like your N, that you are still pretty upset about 10 years later, so I would think long and hard about what you find appealing here.
May 10 - 11PM (Reply to #32)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Need clarification

We've only been together twice... mainly emailing. I have his phone number (haven't called him yet)... but he doesn't have mine. I'm taking this VERY SLOWLY. I haven't given myself emotionally. I'm not head over heels infatuated. I can see why you see red flags (and they're understandable) Once you've been burnt once really bad, you're ALWAYS watching your back. The only "mirroring" I've seen are similar interests and backgrounds. I'd want to know MORE about this guy before sending him off... or opening the door. Believe me, elopement is NOT in the picture!
May 11 - 11PM (Reply to #39)
Jessika (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Just know that they

do have the ability to take things slow and follow your pace. Mine 'waited' for me and constantly said we were friends for 7 whole months... during that time I never kissed him, held his hand, and in fact told him I felt no chemisty (guess it was the missing soul thing he has going on- LOL). When I finally said... Ok, I'll date you and see how it goes he slooooooowly morphed into someone I NEVER expected. Complete opposite of the man I'd known for 7 months, who was patient, kind, generous, sweet... afraid to even reach out for my hand. Fast forward to just a couple of monhts after I consented to the relationship and he is (during sex) calling me a slut, whore--- while he is grabbing the back of my hair so that i cant even move my head--- I was pertrifide!! Hmmmm looks like I kinda went back into a flash of my relationship. Only saying keep those eyes open.... they ALWAYS hide who they are initially... ALWAYS, Always, always.... then comes the big con........ and the delicious pay off of your pain, confusion, frustration--- oh yeah and you're all bonded/ attached and in love at that point. Ha ha ha for being so gullable and naive
May 10 - 11PM (Reply to #33)
better off
better off's picture

First of all, I am not

First of all, I am not paranoid and always watching my back. I'm just skeptical and I know precisely what to look for. Sadly I had been skeptical before, but my N got to me when I was down and vulnerable, and I overlooked a few things that ended up being telling in the long run. Pardon me for finding your comment slightly patronizing. I see red flags when flags are red. And I'm not saying you're in love with him or infatuated with him, I am just pointing out a few areas where you can usually catch a few things that say a lot. With him or ANYONE. (Being defensive about the person in question is a red flag, btw) You are the one that brought up hoping it wasn't a Jekyll/Hyde thing, so I am offering my opinion. You can't avoid Mr Hyde by hoping. About mirroring... it's not mirroring if you actually HAVE the same interests and backgrounds. I HAD some of the same interests as my N... but in other areas he was mirroring. He was copying MY spirituality for instance. And wanting me guide him in that area. Because he was lying his f'ing ass off. A person is possibly mirroring you when it's YOUR interest that they claim to also have. "Really, I love that too!" That's what I meant about the vegetarian thing... so he was a vegetarian because... he was mirroring a vegetarian? And then later, oh well, not a vegetarian. Now he butchers his own cows. lol After meeting a farmer's daughter. I'm not trying to pick on you or this guy; I am giving examples of things to look for in general. Other people read this too. But when a woman says trust and honesty are important to her... any man with half a brain is going to say they are important to him too. You got burned, he got burned. You're not too trusting, he's not too trusting. Fine, maybe he's a great guy, who thinks trust and honesty are important, and he's been burned so he's not too trusting. That's all perfectly possible. Or he's just saying all the things that he's expected to say. He could be doing THAT just because he's a MAN and not an N. Anyway, it's just words. Personally, IMO... telling someone you aren't too trusting within a couple of dates is saying too much. That's a mistake women make all the time. If it's casual, keep it casual, and don't give out clues that you've been N-bait before. Because N's look for that. AGAIN, having nothing to do with this guy in particular. Confessing to trust issues sets up the game from the word go. And what you did was trust someone enough to tell them you have trust issues. Even an incompetent psychopath will know to say they have them too. You should really read WWLP. It's quite an education for 15 bucks. So that's my 25 cents worth.
May 10 - 11PM (Reply to #34)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

The other red flags

My ex-N had been toying with my emotions from the GET-GO. It started off on the wrong foot. There was the Wittgenstein/Augustine blow-up, and then his sudden "I'm so sorry" to save face. There was also the badmouthing of me behind my back, the condescending behavior, his insulting of my friends and family, and constant negativity. He was ALL RED FLAGS ALL THE TIME. I had friends telling me,"He's using you to look human" and comparing him to the Devil. Everybody else told me my ex-N was a bully (and possibly an alcoholic masturbating one) It's almost like this... with this friendly older men, maybe I should introduce him to my friends, and that's a litmus test. Friends can be objective. That's what they're there for. We have some ideological differences;he knows I'm Catholic;he's Religious Science. I'm against abortion and euthanasia.. he didn't attack those views. Even if we don't end up boyfriend/girlfriend... perhaps we could just be respectful "just friends."
May 10 - 11PM (Reply to #35)
better off
better off's picture

And THIS is a trap you

And THIS is a trap you especially have to watch out for, Susan. Your Ex-N was a total f'ing psycho. So anyone is who is NOT a total f'ing psycho... seems normal. So just because someone is not a zero-to-sixty N at the beginning, doesn't mean they are okay either. It also doesn't mean they are NOT okay, it's inconclusive. I think you'll find that MOST people on the board had a very nice person on their hands at the beginning. It's much more typical for a narcissist to hook you with good stuff and THEN turn into a nightmare later. By the by, some of the nice things my N did for me, weren't as nice as I thought they were in retrospect. But my husband was so verbally and emotionally abusive that my N seemed like a saint in comparison. Saint N. Which was his intention.