For Lisa and/or everyone else...

9 posts / 0 new

#1 Dec 10 - 11PM

Anonymous (not verified)

For Lisa and/or everyone else...

I just had a thought while harvesting my crops on Farmville, I saw the post about the me-tailing advertising for DNA in a plate. Underneath, it mentioned Narcissism being dropped.

I think it being dropped from the DSM is Dangerous!

My take is that they will shove it under the umbrella of Sociopathy - but something more is at stake here.

The number of victims is staggering and GROWING.

If it's dropped and shrinks are not made aware -
THEN won't that mean, that we as victims are "over-reacting"

We stand the risk of false labels and innacurate diagnoses, for if it is stripped it does not exist.

Narcissism is on the rise.

New Psych majors won't have a clue.

What are your thoughts on this - and anyone else of course...

#2 Dec 11 - 3PM

michele115 (not verified)

Given my experience with the Psych profession

And the evidence of some of the discussions on this board about how the "professionals" seem not to get it... I still remain skeptical despite the amount of time left to go.

#3 Dec 11 - 10PM (Reply to #8)

Lisa E. Scott

Michele

I am concerned as well. I certainly hope that the only reason the APA is contemplating this is to demonstrate the severity of narcissism, not to diminish it. Unfortunately, the latest articles I have been reading suggest the latter. However, keep in mind, this is the media stirring the pot. The APA has released no statement yet. The media is suggesting that the rationale for dropping the disorder is the belief that narcissism is a desirable trait in today’s society that can help one succeed. As a result, more and more people are becoming narcissistic to get ahead so it's becoming the norm. In my opinion, the classification of narcissism as a trait, not a personality disorder is like saying “homicidal tendencies” are simply an attribute rather than a significant character flaw. Individuals with Narcissistic Personality Disorder have no conscience or remorse and will do anything to get ahead. I hardly think this is a trait we should dismiss and consider acceptable. Eliminating fifty percent of the personality disorders from the DSM as if they should now be considered the norm should be of great concern. There is no doubt that today’s culture rewards selfish and arrogant behavior. Narcissism is validated and reinforced everywhere you look. Today’s college students are more narcissistic and self-centered than their predecessors. Orville Brim, the human development scholar, notes that four million American adults list fame as their number one primary life goal. Psychologists worry that this trend could be harmful to personal relationships and American society. I couldn’t agree more. In an era where fame trumps everything else, very little effort is invested into personal relationships or doing the right thing. Instead, narcissism defines our times.

#4 Dec 11 - 2PM

betty2020

Michele, I wouldn't worry to

Michele, I wouldn't worry to much over this yet. The new DSM V is not out until 2013. There is still much work to be done on these revisions. This is why we have not had any specific details as to what their actual intentions are. It is best to wait until we have this clarification before we get too excited. Best case scenario would be if they were to classify this behavior under the anti social (APD) category. Many of the behaviors fall in line with APD as it stands. Of course there are varying degrees of the disorder just as with NPD but I believe that they are making attempts to address this as well in the 2013 version. In my opinion, I do not believe they will ultimately conclude that narcissistic behaviors do not exist. I believe that they are attempting to bring several disorders that exhibit similar or exactly behavioral patterns into one diagnosis. This will hopefully help the clinicians be able to better diagnoses an individual with a personality disorder. As it is written, some of them overlap, and this gives rise to mis-diagnosis or worse case no diagnosis at all. Simplification to the procedures in diagnosing these patients is long over due only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

#5 Dec 11 - 6PM (Reply to #6)

Briseis

Michelle

Betty says In my opinion, I do not believe they will ultimately conclude that narcissistic behaviors do not exist. That's exactly what I think, too. I think the current DSM (and the previous versions) actually PREVENT accurate diagnosis. I worked in the field for 17 years, and psychiatrists are reluctant to diagnose a PD mainly because the diagnostic criteria are inadequate. As they exist now, they are inadequate because there is no such thing as a "pure" type of any PD. The current classification is very inexact, it does not provide for a wholistic grasp of the individual's personality disorder symptoms. The other reasons psychiatrists are reluctant to diagnose a personality disorder is two-fold. You get a BPD (borderline) diagnosis, and a number of insurance companies will not reimburse because BPD is not considered a mental "illness" (as all PDs are not true mental illnesses in the classic sense of illness). The other is that diagnosing someone with a PD is like diagnosing them with terminal cancer. At this point in time, with the exception of BPD, a personality disorder diagnosis is almost a condemnation because there is no known treatment. They don't want to "condemn" their patients to carry this kind of label. I still think that this fine tuning of the diagnostic process is going to be neutral, rather than negative. ALL PDs, every single one of them, shares the same common denominators. Regressed emotional development and disturbed personal relationships. This slightly different way of describing the PDs has nothing to do with "taking away" status from their victims. If anything, it might help us understand them more completely, and deal with them more effectively and get more comprehensive help for ourselves.

#6 Dec 11 - 12PM

Briseis

Lisa's blog about the APA and NPD

http://www.vainencounters.com/2010/12/02/apa-doing-away-npd

#7 Dec 11 - 12AM

Briseis

My understanding is that it

My understanding is that it is NOT "going away". More like what used to be known as NPD will be included within sociopathy with a clinically derived "emphasis" on narcissism. NPD won't be a label anymore, but the syndrome of behaviors will continue to exist. And with what I already know about the DSM and how psychiatrists (in general) view the personality disorders, it will actually be a more accurate diagnostic tool. So our "narcs" can still be called narcs and our cause and our misery is unchanged. I don't predict the effects on the psychiatric community will be to poo poo the growing number of people who recognize themselves as victims. Whatever is wrong with these idiots is REAL no matter what you call it, and it's well known and calling it a different name isn't gonna make it disappear (or make us disappear). That's just my opinion, semi educated :P Google this and you'll find a lot of articles, some pro and some con. VERY interesting stuff. You can call me grape juice and that does not change who I am. I agree that re-labeling something does have the power to change how it is perceived. I can't predict how this will "change" the concept of NPD or personality disorders in general, except that I sense it is more specific and eliminates all the cross contamination. My Narc is probably more sociopathic than NPD, for instance. Some Narcs on this board are similarly cross contaminated, some seem borderline personality or obsessive/compulsive. That's my psych nurse thinking, though, influencing how I perceive. There really do not seem to be "pure types" of any personality disorder. I think this new way of diagnosing is all about making things more clear, not less. NPD isn't the only personality disorder that wreaks havoc on people's lives. There are many boards dedicated to ASPD and BPD (sociopathic and borderline). All PD's are disruptive and cause misery, no matter what they are.

#8 Dec 11 - 1AM (Reply to #2)

michele115 (not verified)

I agree with everything you said...

However...like most illnesses that are not publicized well, there lies a problem for great misunderstanding. The general population may not know how damaging say bi-polar can be or some of the others...BUT...they've heard of it before and have a general idea. Narcissism is on the rise, yet some of what I'm finding is almost a systematic downplaying of it? I've come across some articles lately and it is a bit disturbing because they basically chalk it up to a self centered conceited jerk. If I came across the aforementioned after dealing with what I dealt with - I think I would marry the self centered jerk...a Narc is a whole different breed!!! That is why I am concerned. If the DSM downplays it - so will the media, which in turn molds the minds of the masses. And with my history of the other health related circumstances, I feel I'm seeing it happen with this as well. It will take this whole thing backwards, not forward in terms of awareness. Domestic Violence in general needs to be more out in the open so victims do not feel as isolated. It was only a few days ago when someone posted...I forgot who - the words abuse. I've been on this board how many weeks and the CD was so great, I did not even think on that scale. It took that person to get me to "get it" that I in essence am a survivor of Domestic Violence? Most think abuse is blatant physical or verbal...this is stealth and I suspect many are suffering and have no idea why they feel "crazy" or believe it must be them. Awareness is needed and I feel this panel is causing more harm than good.

#9 Dec 11 - 11AM (Reply to #3)

blueeyes

Michelle

Hey, ya got internet back!! How are things? I agree with you that awareness is needed about these PDI's. I see the change as a good thing. The masses and general population will always and forever spin everyting no matter what the subject. That's life. I'm trying to see this as a way to prevent the defense lawyers from hiding behind illness and getting these freaks back on the streets. They aren't necessarily doing away with NPD, more like refining it? That's what I took from what I've read. I don't think this is a dramatic change that the new Psychology majors won't study the disorders. Don't worry, nobody who is effected (like us) will be spared information from this change. :)

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