Looking at my part

"For now it has to be enough that prior to him leaving I was desperately sick, psychologically, physically spiritually etc and now it's getting better." I think this is a very telling statement you make. You were these things while WITH him, and with him GONE.....you are feeling better. I am not familiar with your story, but I am assuming the relationship was abusive if you ended up here. I am one of those that does not believe in 12 step programs or codependence....when it comes to abusive relationships. Abusive relationships CAUSE depression, low self esteem, shame, guilt etc in the victim. These qualities are a RESULT of being abused.....NOT the reason you were abused. If that makes sense? I think it is great that you self - reflect and examine yourself, but being abused is NEVER your fault. Yes, nobody is perfect, but you didn't "contribute" to any form of abuse you endured. Abusers manipulate and brainwash their victims slowly. I know it is confusing. Are you in therapy?... besides the 12 step program? If not, I would recommend you look into it. Congratulations on 3 days of NC. Stick with it. Things will become clearer in the days ahead. In the meantime, please, do NOT blame yourself. We're here for you. Keep sharing:) xoxo, Steph ps. http://www.lisaescott.com/2011/06/03/you-are-not-blame

I may get a bunch of tomatoes thrown at me; however, I have an issue with 12 Step programs for certain reasons; however, I understand that it works for some...I think this is like religion and politics, you don't debate or agrue you respect. If I may however, what I have learned and what I have read and what I have been lucky enough to avoid...is that philosophy. NOW is it helpful to do some self inventory with self absolutely, we are not perfect; however, the 12 Step program for spouses and family members push this "theory" that was made up by a group of people who were personality disordered THEMSELVES. Read: The Orange Papers. Very sensitive Topic...Substance abusers do need help as well - but they are enabled through that program and brainwashed they are powerless and helpless and when under the substance absolutely...BUT there is a root cause that led them to the substance, hurt, pain, abuse, mental illness - can be a number of things...I haven't witnessed a real push for awareness, self growth, healing, THERAPY to get to the root - instead "the program" is pushed and when it doesn't work then "you're not working the program" or you're told to follow your sponsor who may very well be equally screwed up...it happens. You're told throw it up to a higher power, and yes, sprituality is a very good thing to have, I have it and it's helped but that "higher power" isn't a dude that waves a magic wand and makes things disappear, he helps those who help themselves. The addicted have problems, BIG ones, and they project, and they make excuses, in fact the program if one does not diligently seek other resources for help and healing essentially turns out "dry drunks" or "dry addicts" they're off the drug, they chant slogans but the behaviors in many cases are UNCHANGED so what you're with is a junkie who just isn't using. THAT IS NOT HEALING. This needs to change in the 12 Step programs, I believe addicts can change but the leadership is filled more with egotistical individuals who enjoy feeling a sense of power but haven't truly mastered healing for themselves, and when one hasn't completely done a gut renovation, what can one preach? I can only speak of my personal experience and what I've witnessed and what I've read, but I've done the research too. AND been a victim of one of their "treated and recovered" clients. Again, it seems to be the only thing out there...I hope that changes, I hope that better options are available...I believe there is a gain to keeping people "hooked" on a program. That benefit, not in the addict's favor or the victims of the addict. Regardless of your beliefs, this is a diverse group here. We do not judge one another, we respect eachother's opinions. I don't believe in the codependency theory, but some do, and that is fine. At the end of the day the real bottom line is we do what we have to do and what works for us. Goldie wrote an excellent blog the other day on this, you can find it on her blog post. I hold this perspective because I was labeled by the NA group via the Narc's mouth as he spewed all our business in a meeting of course playing the victim because of his "powerlessness" and "manipulation" that I was "acting crazy" and of course he got all the love and support from his drug addicted enabelers who had an equally distorted view and so in the end, he got a gold star for leaving this crazy bi-polar person and scored himself a new girlfriend compliments of "the club" because they also do a lot of sharing in the rooms and switch up partners so I've learned - and right now, although healed, will NEVER give an addict the benefit of the doubt in terms of having an intimate relationship because I've seen how they can manipulate and the only thing that changes is they're not doing what they do with a crack pipe dangling from their mouth. I do acknowledge there are ALWAYS EXCEPTIONS to this one sided view, but I speak from the viewpoint of someone who exploited the program - and cognitively understand THAT IS NOT EVERYONE in a 12 step program but I do forewarn anyone who is there to additionally seek other resources of support as slowly one gets sucked in and it almost becomes cult like and if you don't follow and do what they perscribe, you are outcast...at a time where you do need love, support, understanding and so one is desperate and pressured and slowly brainwashed into buying into THEIR program because "It's the only one that works - work the program it works"...HA!... I must also add, this was a VET...18 years clean. yea... Anyone who knows about the 13th step knows exactly what I'm talking about - although I will say from observation, the women in the program seem to have a better grasp and really do strive to support one another. Again, this is not meant to offend, and if it works for you you do what you need to do - that is the most important thing, but please do keep your eyes open, be alert and find YOU...do the work, the six steps don't require anything other than a commitment to finding the core of you. It is a journey, but I was diagnosed with PTSD and this man never laid a finger on me, or openly verbally abused me, but he certainly used the "program" on me and brainwashed the hell out of me...and I do not have a background with substance abuse - I admired "his strength" his ability to "get clean" to "beat the odds" instead it was all a sham and every slogan seemed so "empowering" and in 18 years, he's not grown one bit...just dropped the crack pipe...and I've trolled many an addiction board and I realize the panel is split - but I identify most with those who brought what my reality was to the light. Nonetheless, everyone's reality is different. I do not mean to cause dissention; however, there are others here, beaten down believing in a program that is essentially blaming them when in reality they need to be told get the hell out - forget learning to understand him, get the hell out! Forget detaching with love or any other thing...get the hell out...until he learns real accoutability and learns "disease" or not..."powerless or not" get yo shit together and learn accountability, do not project, manipulate, use, abuse and blame it on a disease. Try telling a stage four cancer patient you're powerless...is that not absurd...but yet, somehow their "disease" trumps everything...their "disease" is an excuse...sorry can't buy it. I have a disease thought to be just like AIDS the medical community is yet to understand...yea...I'm powerless...over my government, the medical industry and the ignorance of people who are misniformed, who don't know our blood supply is tainted, who don't know I might infect them - just learned that...who don't realize I may have given my child this disease...but this jackass is powerless?...Sorry I've lost my empathy chip on that note. FINAL BOTTOM LINE - WHATEVER YOUR BACKGROUND IN THIS CASE YOU WERE NOT TO BLAME - YOU WERE TARGETED AND YOU ARE A VICTIM RIGHT NOW BUT YOU WILL HEAL AND YOU WILL BE A SURVIVOR. WELCOME AND DO NOT OWN ANYONE ELSE'S INSANITY. PS: THEY LOVE LABELING FOLKS BI-POLAR BECAUSE THE TRAUMA FROM THEIR ABUSE IS JUST TO HARD TO BE ACCOUNTABLE FOR EITHER...A professional found me to have PTSD...but again, projecting, blame and abuse is the only thing they know for all the 'ish that they chant. Hugs!

Congrats on 3-days NC! I still do the who-is-to-blame, him/me, questioning. For me, I know part of it is that I was constantly blamed by my exN. He was also abusive, and he was very dominating and sounded confident in his opinions. I have read that it really is different in an abusive relationship when analyzing your part/his part. The issue is the abuse. The cause of turmoil is his narcissism. Abuse makes us do and say things we normally wouldn't do. We become broken down, and in that broken state, still have to TRY to protect ourselves. It's about survival. It's about fighting to have a voice, to keep our identity, to be seen, to keep from being engulfed. What happens in a "battle zone" is not the same when we feel safe, loved, appreciated, and seen. Stay strong.

Jelic, I, too, am in a 12 step fellowship and here's what my part was...being uneducated about N's, not listening to my own gut instincts and not believing what my higher power was trying desperately to make me see and letting my relationship with my N drive me away from everyone who really does care about me. I made N my higher power. I wondered about amends but I think the very best amends is complete NC, at least in my case.

The ex-Psych prof blamed me for EVERYTHING. During the final D&D, he'd say "You're treating me however you want, so I'm treating you however I want" as he'd rage at me... because I told him I loved him. He would REFUSE to apologize (even when I bribed him with NS), saying "YOU acted inappropriately!" Those were his final words. He blamed his inhumane treatment ON ME. By the end, even if I emotionally abused him, I'd consider myself above reproach, because he abused me. The senior skit publicly ridiculed&humiliated him, so much so he RAN OUT. Instead of being my submissive, weepy self, I told him the next day how much FUN I had, recounted it to him with a smile.... and he was *SHOCKED.* It scared him at a certain level that I got some pleasure out of it. Since he was never my lover, spouse or boyfriend, I took certain liberties I wouldn't have with other people (like my Narc grandmother or former Narc boss) He is my OBJECT of ridicule. He will be treated like an object, and he better damn well enjoy it! I got so tired of his enabling his mistreatment of me, I could mistreat him with a smile on my face. It was sick how he blamed me for his BAD behavior, reducing me to tears, standing there coldly, intoning "You're embarrassing yourself." I remember how I dealt with a female bully in high school, because I had a lot of credibility, I was able to ruin her reputation with a rumor I cooked up. With a patronizing smile on my face, I blithely told her to stop making such a big deal (she had lied about me to justify her bullying of me) of a petty thing, and that I was teaching her a lesson. I didn't even apologize, but blamed her for MY lying. Since she refused to take responsibility for her bad behavior (she wouldn't fess up in the vice principal's office for her abuse of me), she ended up having to have it piled on her... along with MINE.

This is not the question. All those 14 years, the N blamed you. But now he's gone. After a 14 year marriage, 3 days is a moment in time. And you will wonder a lot what he is doing. He was your spouse & a part of your life that meant something to you. Getting over a 14 year marriage, especially if it was a pathological relationship, will take a long time. Rather than focusing on the past & who was to blame -- focus on the future. What will you do now? And what will you do when he comes knocking on the door if everything is not going as well as he wanted out there? Unless they get themselves locked into a better position, they always come back.

Hi jelic, well done on the 3 days no contact!! It takes enormous strength and your doing really well. Nobody us perfect and we all make mistakes within a relationship. We even make mistakes with how we might have treated the N on occasion. Everybody makes mistakes But this DOES NOT in any way shift the blame from the abuser to the abused!! We did not deserve to be treated so inhumanely. Like a piece of trash. The blame is on him jelic, not you. As each bad thing pops into your head- write it down. So when your feeling all over the place you can go back and read it. It will snap you back into reality quick smart. It's normal to feel like this Hun. It's all part of the process. Keep on walking...