manipulated again...Please help.

32 posts / 0 new
Last post
#1 May 4 - 6PM
malloryforest
malloryforest's picture

manipulated again...Please help.

Ex left this afternoon. Made it through most of weekend with no contact. This afternoon, that fell apart.

ExH admitted that he has narcissistic tendencies. He wanted me to be empathetic to his situation where he is depressed, and messed up, and barely survivng each day. He is lost without the kids, and is wondering if there is a chance for him and I to work out. He can't give her up, because he is so depressed and can't seem to make any right decisions. She is understanding and supportive, and letting him figure it all out, and is there for him. He feels that with me, I am angry and mad, and will never be able to forgive him.

He was crying about how he misses his own children, and he can't in his right mind ever imagine taking on her three kids. Blah, blah, blah.

Nothing different same old story. Finally I asked him, why he feels the need to tell me this crap. It is not like he is saying, hey I am giving up the girlfriend, going into therapy, spending some time alone, and figuring this all out. He said, he needs me too hear him. He needs to know if there is anything to save between us, even though he can't imagine us ever working our differences out.

Finally, I told him enough. Once again, there was no point in discussing anything. It sounded the same to me...same old stuff.

I told him, if he is happy with her, leave me the fuck alone. If he genuinly wanted to work on our marriage, and he loved and respected me, she would have been out of the picture a long time ago...

He tells me it is not so black and white.

Am I missing something??????

1.Why is he still messing with me if he is in love with her and it is "true love?"
2.Why if he is so miserable and just surviving each day, isn't he doing what he needs to do and getting rid of the GF?
3.Why doesn't he leave me alone?
4.WHy is he holding onto that relationship if he doesn't want her three kids who are now living with grandma, because mom's BF, my husband, doesn't want them.
5. Why is she still hanging around with a man who doesn't want her kids?
6. Why do I still listen to his crap?

I swear, I think I am angry and unsympathetic, and the nutty one when I talk with him!

Please help me to understand.

May 5 - 7PM
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

all about appearances.

Oh yeah all the people who work with exNH, all his running buddies and all the guys at his fraternal organization think he is MR. WONDERFUL. (puke... they can HAVE him) And when he found out about my emotional affair 7 years ago? He said - "I HAVE to be your NUMBER ONE!" I actually said "then stop treating me like Number Two!" He did not get it at all. Because he was so focused on HIM HIM HIM. I like the idea of videotaping him and sending it via an anonymous mail account to some of his "friends" at work. Wow - you think he'll be happy to be a video star? LOL He's a frigging psychopath, Mallory - RUN WITH YOUR KIDS AND DON'T LOOK BACK. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Cost-Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
May 5 - 1PM
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

mallory

1. Tell your lawyer to PUSH HIM to sign off. Or to hold him IN CONTEMPT and for him to PAY YOUR LAWYER & THE COURT for his foot dragging. SHE NEEDS TO KICK BUTT!! If she has "reasons" not to? Get a NEW LAWYER!!! I know you HAD to leave. So did I. I was ready to eat a gun with exNH. I know how OBSTRUCTISTIC these jerks are. Sorry - I forget sometimes. But I do think you need to light a fire under your lawyer and him. He delays = HE PAYS. 2. Who gives a crap what everyone thinks? As long as you are in the picture - you will be the scapegoat. So what. Once you remove yourself it takes about 16 months and those around these slime start to see what they are. Who CARES???? Worry about you and your kids!!! If others support him - THAT'S THEIR PROBLEM!! 3. I know it takes a long time for them to crash and burn but you have to focus on YOU AND YOUR KIDS AND GETTING THIS PIECE OF SH*T OUT OF YOUR LIVES. FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 4. DO NOT LISTEN TO ANOTHER WORD HE SAYS. He will ALWAYS blame someone. ALWAYS. He's sick in the head. He's never to blame. If his car ran into a kid it would be the kid's fault. It's NEVER their fault. This is part of their sickness. Now I just tell exNH - "yup, you're right. I'm the AntiChrist." And I WALK AWAY!!!!!! Stop giving any credence, weight or take seriously ANYTHING that comes from his direction. He's crap. Lower than dirt. He will get his but in the meantime - PUSH YOUR LAWYER TO DO SOMETHING GET HIM OUT, GET A RESTRAINING ORDER and GET FULL CUSTODY and if she starts making you doubt this? GET A NEW LAWYER! ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Cost-Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
May 5 - 2PM (Reply to #29)
malloryforest
malloryforest's picture

Barbara...

You are right, I have to comes to terms with being a scape goat and so what if I am. I have to focus on my children and myself...let go and move on. The kids and my mental health come before anything. That is the only thing I can control. I can't control what he says about me. I can't control the GF. I can't control my husband or ever get him to understand. Somebody pathological can never understand. I need to keep reminding myself of this stuff so that it sticks. I am not dealing with normal people here. There will never be remorse and empathy, and it will always be my fault in some way. Okay, so if I truly accept this, then there is nothing else to do, but mentally move on with kids and myself.... Slowly understanding. Are relapses part of recovery???
May 5 - 5PM (Reply to #30)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

relapsing

No relapsing is NOT part of recovery. Relapsing is relapsing. You will NOT even START recovery until he's out of your life, you no longer speak to him or see him. It doesn't start until NO CONTACT is fully enforced. Keep telling yourself he's SICK. He's pathological. He's not NORMAL. Something's SERIOUSLY WRONG WITH HIM. SERIOUSLY... NO JOKE... DEEPLY AND INCURABLY WRONG. Some reads for you: http://howtospotadangerousman.blogspot.com/2008/11/power-of-relapsing.html http://narc-attack.blogspot.com/2008/03/narcissists-and-conflict.html Mallory - you should print this one out and read it EVERY DAY: http://narc-attack.blogspot.com/2007/07/danger-of-ascribing-normal-human.html then there is nothing else to do, but mentally move on with kids and myself.... and get a NICE FAT alimony and child support committment from him and get it done THROUGH THE STATE (i.e. he doesn't pay you directly - he has to pay the state and the state pays you. That way when he defaults; and he WILL; the STATE will chase his sorry ass down... not you.) Play this one for yourself - it's the perfect way for you to act & think about the LOSER: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8XC7idFyvE ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Cost-Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
May 5 - 8AM
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

mallory

You know, I would bet money that his BS and her 'hatred' of big bad you - IS WHAT IS HELPING HOLD THEM TOGETHER. Which is why you need to keep practicing APATHY or at least acting APATHETIC towards him - and file for divorce ASAP. I would bet once you've removed yourself from the picture in about 18 months or less they are toast. One thing he's right about - HE IS AN EMPTY SHELL. He had a wife, children and a family - but noooooo he had to go act like a 15 year old being led around by his dick. He's sick. Really PERVERTED. And he will do it again and again and again. No contact will help keep your head screwed on straight. He is to speak to your ATTORNEY and not you. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Cost-Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
May 5 - 9AM (Reply to #22)
malloryforest
malloryforest's picture

Barbara

I filed for divorce back in October of last year. He has been dragging his feet this long. Ex is blaming me for my sons regression. If I hadn't left, he would be with his son, and his son wouldn't have the same problems. Honestly Barbara, I had to leave. The kids wouldn't have had a mom, if I had stayed. I would have either died or been committed. Is there justice in the world? Can two people act so horribly and get away with it? It just makes me so sick to my stomache. They destroyed two families, six kids and they act like it is fine.... People around them support them. They say, gosh, you must have been so unhappy in your marriage. She must have been terrible. It must be the only way people can comprehend his behavior. That wife must be bad. But, this hurts me. I wasn't a bad wife. Honestly. I wasn't perfect, but I wasn't bad. I just got so fed up putting my dreams second and constantly having to put his first. I got sick of singing his praise, when there was something in me that kept on questioning whether he was worthy of it. I would constantly look at this man, torn about wether he was the great guy everyone else saw, or was he cruel. I kept on thinking I must be distorted in my thinking... I must have a need to see him as bad. He told me I was unappreciative of what he gave me... He was generous, and would give the shirt off his back for anyone in need. Other people see how he has everyones back, and is willing to go to any length for other people. Well, if that is so true....then how can he be so malicious and destroy his family. It's like he can be generous and supportive to the friends and strangers, but the most intimate people in his life, he treats like crap. I guess old some old friends are hanging out with her. I don't understand how people can accept her. Don't they look at both of them in complete disgust?? I guess not. The NH is fine at saying he is sorry. He can always over time, say he is sorry, and shed a tear, but he never really changes the behavior. He can say now that he realizes how much he hurt me, and that some of the stuff he did was terrrible, but he still continues to do it. It was like when he took her on vacation. I was horrified that he could take this woman on vacation, and fund the whole thing with our joint savings account!!!! It was me paying for her whole ticket and vacation! He could not understand how this would upset me. SHe was putting all this pressure on him. Don't let your wife control you. If you love me you will go on vacation. You need this trip or you will die. Don't let your wife once again guilt you out of your hard earned vacation. Fine if he wants to gfo on vacation, but why am I paying for her to go on vacation!!!! He could not understand this. It wan't till he already in the destination spot, that he said he was sorry. Sure it is easy to say sorry once you get what you want. I tell my sons all the time that sorry is not just a word. You should not say your sorry, until you really understand what another person is feeling, and are willing to change the behavior that is causing the other person distress... This other woman....I feel like she takes great joy in taking my life away. My husband, my house, my animals (I lived on a farm), everything. It is like she feels she has some sort of right to my life as it existed. I wa sa bad wife and didn't understand hem. I was angry and hurtful. She is a better woman, and his true love. He should sacrifice everything for her. It is so completely hurtful! Therew is no dignity and respect for me and my children. She could care less. ExH says that she is so caring, and remorseful and just torn up about her role in all this....but she continues to do it. THat is not remorse. That is acting the role, while you get what you want. Am I wrong in my perspective????
May 5 - 6PM (Reply to #26)
cassiemay
cassiemay's picture

mallory

this post really got to me. I've been through exactly the Same Thing. 10 days after we separated (after 21 years of marriage) he bought her a computer, and then clothes, jewelry, vacations, dinners out, etc. etc. I was so fucking furious so I documented every single charge on his credit card or withdrawals from checking account. Some of this was hard to trace but I did it and I hope to hell it helps me in court, which of course we can't avoid because he is a N and is not about to admit to any wrongdoing. No matter that he has spent down $170,000 from a mutual account with no accounting or permission from me. I hope to get his ass in court. Believe me, I HATE THIS. I would much rather settle, but he is the one who has prolonged it now for 2 and 1/2 years. My attorneys, (I hope, I pray, I believe) are all over this and have just been waiting for him to dig his hole deeper and deeper. We'll see. Girlfriend: FUCK HER. LET her find out in her own time what she's dealing with. If he did it with her, he'll do it with someone else. Yeah, right now he is seducing her darling, just like he did with you. But tigers don't change stripes. "She is a better woman and his true love". GIVE ME A BREAK. He is so immature and believe me this will not last. As Barbara said give it about 16 months and it will be over. Something like 5 % of affairs go anywhere and even then they end up divorced. I'm so sorry you have to go through this. I know it hurts like hell. He is an ass. He is SO interested in his kids and you but can't let GO OF HIS GIRLFRIEND. Mallory, I hope you see this as the total bullshit it is. If he had any true remorse or regrets he would not be holding onto her. I don't mean to turn this back onto my issues, but I remember so well when STBX was seeing the woman he had an affair with for (guess what?} 18 months, in which he informed me that he no longer loved me, no longer respected me, etc. etc. Basically, it was ALL MY FAULT. He has never apologiZed. I guess this is different from what you are e xperiencing and that would make it much harder I'm sure. He says all the right things, right? Keep up your radar, keep care of yourself. If he is sincere it will show over time, time time. A lot of time. G/F is playing the "perfect role". I would hate her, but really, it's not about her, it's about Him. He is your Husband. He is the one responsible. Don't try to shift blame to her, although I understand completely if you hate her and she certainly has contributed to all of this. It is So Difficult to make any sense of it. And as others have said, maybe there is no sense of it. Maybe you never really understand why. But you only have to look within yourself, learn what you can as objectively as you can and move forward. I met with my STBX today to obtain a coin collection that I inherited. Thanks to all of you I was very calm and did not stray from the topic at hand. Thank-you. Bye. He looked a bit surprised, as if he expected a "big scene". NOT. I felt pretty proud of myself because there was so much I wanted to say. Starting with" " ""kill all the lawyers..." quote by, I believe, Shakespeare. But I didn't even say that. Just took what I came to get , smiled and said good bye. Interesting, he almost looked disappointed there wasn't more... Anyway.....I digress. Hang in there honey. CM.
May 5 - 6PM (Reply to #27)
cassiemay
cassiemay's picture

P..S.

If you feel like it please read my poem To Colleen in a previous posting. Probably several pages back. It was a result of a personal conversation that helped me very much. I hope it might do so for you. CM
May 5 - 2PM (Reply to #25)
Mariline
Mariline's picture

Malloryforest

This other woman will get hers, don't worry hon. It's a matter of time. Plus, you have no idea what goes on with those two, it's what you HEAR vs. what really "IS". Ask yourself...do you really think people like this are capable of real happiness?? The answer is NO WAY. And why is she so insecure that she has to bother you, and prove stuff to you? Deep down she knows he's a flake. SOOOOOOO TRUE! I don't know if you have noticed what he told you. Narcs are so happy when they inflict pain on others, it is proof of their power and control. She is so remorseful....... and he is happy of it!!!!! In my opinion, this is a deep hint of truth, so to speak. You do not know what he told her. Probably you cannot imagine it. You cannot imagine to what lengths he has gone. He has fooled her so much that she has lost her own children! Oh what an unbearable pain whan she will realize that! He has already hurtd her more than he did with you-you have your children near you-she does not! I bet she is a frail, pathetic creature. A naive and not so brilliant woman. I do not remember where I read it, but narcs trade for lower. She is a poor stupid and she will be devastated, very very very soon. She has already begun to be devastated, he has even told this to you....I bet he did it with pride!!!!! I bet it!!!! The more I am aware of what is narcissism, the more I am able to evaluate the ones I have in front of me. Your husband is not sad. He is happy, happy now. He is betrayinh her and you in the same time. If I were her I could not stand the words he says to you. To be considered just a sort of human Prozac, as he describes her. She knows nothing of it, I bet......and you know nothing of what he told her. Go through the courts and fight! Fight for your children! Do not tell anything about them if not advised by your lawyer, you see he is using the damage done to the child BY HIM AND BY HIS IRRESPONSIBLE BEHAVIOUR against YOU!!!! Barbara is RIGHT. She is not exaggerating. HE wants control and he will try to get it through your children. He does not give a damn about them. It's all about victory. He is twisted! He left you for another woman and now you are guilty? OF WHAT? And you still listen to him? NO CONTACT! Remember: Safe People are people who draw you closer to who you were meant to be spiritually, emotionally, mentally and physically. They encourage you to be your most loving, growing self. (Emotional Abusers- Heartless Bitches International)
May 5 - 10AM (Reply to #23)
quietude (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

mallory

They are absolute POISON to you and your kids, and this is the way to start viewing them. The sooner you can break as many ties as possible, the better. As for friends who side with them, they are no friends of yours. Time to make new friends. This other woman will get hers, don't worry hon. It's a matter of time. Plus, you have no idea what goes on with those two, it's what you HEAR vs. what really "IS". Ask yourself...do you really think people like this are capable of real happiness?? The answer is NO WAY. And why is she so insecure that she has to bother you, and prove stuff to you? Deep down she knows he's a flake. But who cares... They are dirtbags, and your perspective is this way because you're still in a lot of communication with him and this gf, and your mind is being soooo messed with. Get away from it so you can gain real perspective - you'll understand things more once that happens, and I guarentee feel a hell of a lot better.
May 5 - 5PM (Reply to #24)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

grandiose

Narcissists don't volunteer the usual personal information about themselves, so they may seem secretive or perhaps unusually reserved or very jealous of their privacy. All these things are true, but with the special narcissistic twist that, first, their real life isn't interesting to them so it doesn't occur to them that it would be interesting to anyone else and, second, since they have not yet been transfigured into the Star of the Universe, they're ashamed of their real life. They feel that their jobs, their friends and families, their homes and possessions aren't good enough for them, they deserve better. Narcissists not only don't recognize the feelings and autonomy of others, they don't recognize their own feelings as their own. Their feelings are sort of like the weather, atmospheric, acts of God. The narcissistic think that everyone's having the same feeling as they are. http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/traits.html#grand ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Cost-Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
May 5 - 10PM
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Mallory

NO CONTACT Then write her a note "thank you so much for taking him off my hands. I can never thank you enough for the tremendous favor you have done getting him out of my life. I genuinely wish the best of luck to you!" Phew! ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Cost-Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
May 4 - 8PM
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

He is so FULL OF CRAP

see ladies - this is what happens when we LISTEN to them with our NORMAL BRAIN. They reinstall F.O.G. 101 (Fear Obligation Guilt) The drama, the mess - it all comes back. BULLCRAP! He tells me it is not so black and white. Am I missing something?????? 1.Why is he still messing with me if he is in love with her and it is "true love?" Because he CAN. Because it makes him feel good to have 2 women twisting the wind over him. 2.Why if he is so miserable and just surviving each day, isn't he doing what he needs to do and getting rid of the GF? Would you REALLY take him back NOW if he got rid of her? You do know he'd just find another g'friend. He's FULL OF CRAP. 3.Why doesn't he leave me alone? Because he gets attention by turning you into a mental & emotional pretzel. Ah!! Smell the power he has!! (cough) 4.WHy is he holding onto that relationship if he doesn't want her three kids who are now living with grandma, because mom's BF, my husband, doesn't want them. Same reason he's not leaving you alone. Attention, drama, ALL ABOUT HIM... Allllll about 2 women waiting for him to make a decision. Alll about him keeping you both reeled in -fighting over HIM HIM HIM. 5. Why is she still hanging around with a man who doesn't want her kids? You aren't there when he talks to her. You don't know WHAT he is telling her. She may be thinking the same about YOU. 6. Why do I still listen to his crap? Practice makes perfect. I swear, I think I am angry and unsympathetic, and the nutty one when I talk with him! You know what - you are Angry and YOU HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO BE ANGRY. And who the hell could sympathize with a sick piece of crap who tries to make you think this situation is NORMAL or even ACCEPTABLE? Only on his sick, perverted little planet is this o.k. "he says he's being honest with her" He also said he wanted to be married to you, have kids with you - and "LOVE HONOR AND OBEY" - did he mean ANY of that? Has he told the truth to ANYONE? Does he even KNOW what the TRUTH is? I doubt it. And I would bet it's a whole 'nother reality with her. Get thee to your attorney to file for divorce IMMEDIATELY and NO CONTACT. None. Zero. No calls, no texts, no response, NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He's to talk to your attorney from now on. ~~~~~~~~~ In one sentence he is likely to say how attached and bonded he is and in the next sentence remind her how disposable she is or how he will leave her or the relationship. Some psychopaths don’t say it out right but “hint” or leave clues lying about that they are thinking of leaving, or they become aloof, detached, disinterested, and distant. “He would draw me in and then push me away with various methods. I was constantly perplexed about why it seemed that he wanted a relationship with me on some levels but not on others. He was committed at times but not entirely. I’ve never been so confused about how someone really felt about me.” This leaves her feeling unstable in the relationship, unsure if she has perceived their love correctly, and wondering about the consistency of their bonding. The psychopath is likely to tell her that she’s crazy and the relationship is the same as it has always been, making her question her own perception. Or, he may tell her that something she has done has caused him to want to abandon the relationship (such as questioning him, challenging him, catching him in lies, or asking him to perform adult duties). This attaching and rejecting leaves her feeling like she is straddling an earthquake fault line. “The intensity—the changeability—how one minute it could all seem good and normal and I would forget the craziness and then suddenly the tables turned and the monster I was living with re-appeared.” Interestingly, because of the woman’s high trust trait, she will even trust the psychopath’s explanation when she has caught him red-handed. It could be in bed with someone else, swindling her money, or another horrendous lie. When prompted to choose between trusting what she just saw or found out, or trusting the explanation given by the psychopath, many of the women trust the psychopath and discount the truth of what they learned. “I opened the door and saw him in bed with another woman. By the end of the evening, I wasn’t sure I had seen it at all! He didn’t convince me that it meant nothing — he convinced me it didn’t happen and there was no one in the bed with him! "It took me forever to learn to trust my own perceptions. When you think you are going crazy, it’s easy to rely on someone else’s version of reality. It wasn’t the issue of reality I now see… it was the issue of truth.” This conflict between trusting what she uncovers or trusting his explanations will be repeated many times before the ending of the relationship. The psychopath is also likely to play mind-games with her about the trust and distrust issues. Even if she catches him, he is likely to allege she didn’t see what she saw, didn’t read what she read, and didn’t hear what she heard. Blatant attempts at restructuring her reality are not beyond the psychopath, and is a well used method by him. Overtime, this erodes her ability to do her own reality testing of what is actually in front of her and plays with her mind in ways that makes her think she is losing her mind. ~~~~~~~~~ If psychopaths didn’t like the game of manipulation, they would consistently choose women who are introverted and who would be a far easier capture than taking on powerful extraverted women. But that is in fact, exactly who most psychopaths choose the powerful extraverted woman. To that end, we have to assume that the psychopath predator enjoys watching a previously high-functioning woman turn into a reality-doubting, exhausted, bundle of nerves which he finds pretty erotic. Sadly, some of the psychopath’s women only make it out of their torment through suicide. The ultimate power triumph for a psychopath — he conquered her spirit and won. He scoops up the material assets and moves on to the next woman/ victim with the “grieving” act over her death. Other women flock to soothe his pain and the cycle begins again. Numb but immobile, she does not embrace the severity of her situation. Acknowledging the severity would force action— action she hasn’t planned to take, remember how to do, or has emotional energy to initiate. So instead, she has to deny the psychopaths behaviors, his symptoms, the relationship dynamics, and her own mounting fear that she may not survive. “I can’t believe the amount of abuse and hurt I put up with. I think it’s because he would start to cry and use emotional blackmail so I would stay. I never saw myself as the kind of person who would put up with this hurt and pain. I am angry at myself for putting up with this when it was so obviously wrong for so long.” Despite their condition, and the depth of depravity they experienced at the psychopath’s hands, the women still described the decision to disconnect as “excruciatingly difficult.” Leaving a psychopath is never a clean easy break. The psychopath is likely to have a huge reaction to “losing” his possession. Sandra Brown, MA - WOMEN WHO LOVE PSYCHOPATHS ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Cost-Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
May 4 - 9PM (Reply to #14)
malloryforest
malloryforest's picture

No I wouldn't

No...I wouldn't take him back if he got rid of her. He would just do it agian, and it would once again be my fault for why he had to leave the marriage. I think the hardest part about all of this is the anger issue. Here he was cheating on me, and of course I was angry. Everytime I expressed that anger it was used against me. He would tell me that I have an anger problem, He had to find someone else because of my anger, the marriage could never be reconciled because of my anger, she is not angry. Even today he commented that he is afraid of our marriage because eventually i would get angry and hold this affair as a position of power for myself. He would tell me that every time I got angry it was like he was being nailed to the cross. I am not typically an angry person, but damn right I am angry. I think that anger in this situation is normal! He went on to tell me how he feels like an empty shell of a perso, and she is the only thing that gives him a little happiness in his life. I jsut made him a broken castrated man. If you knew me, you would understand how ridiculous that is. I had all the power and I tore him down. I am really feeling this terrible hate for him and her. They act like poor victims, true love partners who needed eachother to find peace in their horrible lives. But, they both caused such horrible destruction in so many people's lives around them. I remember these horrible emails she would send me about how we are growing and becoming better people from this experience. Today, I am watching my kid freaking out in therapy because of this growing experience, and I am thinking of her emails. How dare she. My sons really appreciate this growing experience. Thank you lady. Thank you dad. What irks me, is how people just get away with their behavior. THere doesn't seem to be any sense of justice. When there is not any true remorse, it hurts!
May 5 - 7PM (Reply to #18)
cassiemay
cassiemay's picture

replying as I read

Mallory, I got this same fucking baloney. I WASN'T MEETING HIS NEEDS. Never mind that I had any of my own. How dare I? If I wasn''t literally perfect in every respect....physically, emotionally, taking "care of" the house etc, then WTF was I Doing? He would come home early some days from work and I would be sitting on the couch with the tv on paying bills or sorting mail or whatever. "What are you Doing?" It was worth nothing if it didn't meet his definition of "right". Oh, so you're just sitting here watching tv? Jesus. He never got it. Now.....he could watch sports whenever and however he wanted.....during dinner, during his sacred "work-outs", but God Forbid that Oprah was on while I was paying bills. He was and is such a hypocrite. I only hope, foolishly, that he will come to pay for this financially or emotionally, because he deserves it. I'm sorry to sound so vindictive, but that is where I am right now. Sometimes that's where we need to be. CM
May 5 - 9PM (Reply to #19)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

needs....

Psycho Boy used to tell me his wife wasn't meeting his needs. Once I finally said to him: "You mean: - the need to have someone with income for all the times you get fired, so you can keep your big house in your toney neighborhood? - or the need to feed and care for and run to the doctor and classes and so on with the 2 kids she brought into the world for you? - or the need to have a nice home and go to your temple, schmooze your friends? - or the need to make sure food you like is on the table? - or the need you have a clean place to sleep? wash and fold your clothes?" He got pretty pissed off and said "NO my sexual needs!! She's so CONSERVATIVE." He then listed off all the sex acts she supposedly wouldn't do for him. I told him he was shallow, he wasn't 16 anymore and he should grow up. I didn't speak to him for a week after that. And the whole time he was doing phone sex, cybersex and seeing hookers - I later found out. Of course now his wife is helping him smear me. He blamed ME for all the things he said about her and for "tempting him" so much... She fell for everything he told her. I heard he's on Twitter now, cruising the abused women feeds - looking for more prey. Friggin' NEEDS - get some lotion and a box of tissues and behave like a man. Oh wait, they aren't human - they are THINGS - not even people, no feelings. The closest they come to feeling is an orgasm. They probably read some cheater saying his wife didn't 'meet his needs' somewhere - or heard it somewhere and thought "OOOO that sounds plausible! I will use that line." Yea, they ARE that transparent and stooopid. Your STBXN honestly believes he DESERVES a COMPLIANT wife and kids to trot out when he needs to look good AND a girlfriend who is all about sex for him. Does that sound SANE to you? It sure doesn't to me. He's using her and he wants to still use you because he thinks he's SOOOOOO special. Whatever he says about feeling empty is COMPLETE AND UTTER BULLSHIT. He, like most pathologicals, probably BELIEVES his own crap - which makes him even MORE INSANE in my book. I wouldn't want my precious children exposed to someone this screwed up - father or not. PSYCH EVALUATION. DEMAND IT. WOMEN to these guys are a BLOW UP DOLL WITH A PULSE. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Cost-Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
May 4 - 9PM (Reply to #15)
better off
better off's picture

I imagine she'll be feeling

I imagine she'll be feeling pretty angry when he fucks up her life next. I just find it very ironic that he's crying and begging on your doorstep at the same time he's telling you you've made him a broken castrated man. That's psycho. Wonder if he's having a bit of trouble in the "getting it up" department. Hmmm. You do have every right to feel angry and to hate the both of them. You've reminded me of a very funny bumper sticker (not saying your sitch is funny, but it helps to whistle in the graveyard sometimes)...it said "I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem." ;-)
May 4 - 9PM (Reply to #16)
malloryforest
malloryforest's picture

I like

I like that bumper sticker. I should have it tattooed to my body. I can't keep the right perspective. I keep falling into the wrong state of mind. I also have to admit that although I am not a competitive person, there is part of me that wants to win just to hurt her. I want to hurt her for hurting me! I know that is so wrong........
May 5 - 8AM (Reply to #17)
better off
better off's picture

Oh, I think it's just

Oh, I think it's just normal. You're very NORMAL, Mallory. The best compliment one can give you! ;P I had a stupid blow up with my husband last night, I totally lost my temper because he is so fucking BRAIN DAMAGED...but why argue with someone who's retarded??? Anyway, we all fall into the "wrong" state of mind. Two steps forward, one step back, but at least you are going in the right direction! Anyway, you ARE going to win because she's stuck with him. Barbara's idea was fantastic. I'd love to see her face (and his) if you sent her a message that said THANK YOU!! rotfl
May 4 - 7PM
quietude (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

your stbx

I don't even KNOW this guy, and he gets my Irish up! >=( He's pretty much seeing what he can get away with right now by gaining sympathy, admitting he has a problem ONLY because he thinks it's what you want to hear. When you hear him say, "I think I may have N tendencies", he doesn't actually believe it, it's meant to be "music to your ears". He thinks, imagine if I reach out for help, she'll eat that shit up! He's losing control, the stakes have been raised, and he's playing a devious hand. Good for you for sticking to your guns, but once again, I think this is a dangerous game you're playing with engaging him in these conversations. You really only should be talking about the kids, if anything. I say again that visitation, especially with this chick in the picture, should be supervised. There are answers to the questions you asked all over this site, and a discussion just today about why narcs don't leave us alone. Keep reading! It'll keep dawning on you slowly but surely, that his head is completely effed up, and you are so much better off without him in your life.
May 4 - 7PM
better off
better off's picture

Hugs Mallory.. You said

Hugs Mallory.. You said this: "I told him, if he is happy with her, leave me the fuck alone. If he genuinly wanted to work on our marriage, and he loved and respected me, she would have been out of the picture a long time ago..." I think you DO understand...more power to you. I can't think of anything more selfish than him asking YOU to tell HIM there's something to work on when HE won't give up his girlfriend...because he needs her. That's just plain...crazy!! I can even see how some assholes could THINK this...but to SAY it to you...just proves how unbelievably unempathetic he is. Your feelings mean nothing, NOTHING to him. Apparently he can't even conceive of what he's doing to you right now. And clearly, the feelings of the other woman mean nothing to him either. Only HIS feelings matter. Everyone is supposed to turn themselves inside out for his feelings and pain. I imagine "what's wrong" with the other woman is that he's lying his ass off to her. I'm sure he isn't telling HER about how he's crying and begging YOU...and telling you he doesn't want her kids. He sounds goddamn certifiable to me.
May 4 - 9PM (Reply to #10)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

He's beyond certifiable - he shouldn't be out among normals

"As the relationship begins to become pathologically - driven and his crazy-making increases instead of running for the hills she is likely to stay and battle it out. She’s not afraid to try to make a point and certainly doesn’t want him to “get one over on her.” Her ability to withstand and go head-to-head with a psychopath “to not take his crap” is dangerous to her mental health. She would rather stay and fight than flee. Her competitiveness is likely to have kept her in the relationship longer than if she were less competitive. While competitiveness in business or sports is a bonus trait to have, in relationships with psychopaths it is a handicap not a bonus. Competitiveness keeps her in the ring being battered about by pathology and mad that she can’t continue to hold her own with someone so deviant. Women get significantly damaged by staying and thinking they can “outsmart him” or “give it to him” before they exit. Their normal personality structure and psychology are no match for an abnormally personality disordered psychopath. He doesn’t get hurt by competitiveness but they will undoubtedly get hurt by exposure to more psychopathic abuse. ~~~~~~~~ Dichotomies are the division into “two contradictory parts or opinions.” In this instance we refer to the two contradictory parts or opinions of the psychopath. This is what comprises the Jekyll/Hyde personality of the psychopath. It represents the inconsistent and totally contradictory statements, behaviors, and beliefs that make women feel like they are “going crazy” in the relationship. She begins to question her own experiences, beliefs, and thoughts. The more he ingrains the belief that their relationship is normal, not the other ones she has had, the more she begins to think she is “crazy” or something is wrong with her that she doesn’t understand the basics of what makes a good relationship. Once he convinces her that their relationship is normal, then he can start to shift her reality further and further off base. He sets up a double bind where she begins to work harder at the pathological relationship (based on her high relationship investment) while he is telling her she just isn’t measuring up. The double bind keeps her jumping through his hoops while he sits on the sidelines telling her to jump even higher. The harder she works, the more she fails. Psychopaths will go to great lengths to inflict psychological devastation, because they enjoy the process. They will agree to changes and then act as if they never had the conversation about the changes. They will admit behaviors when caught and later deny they admitted them. They will get caught red-handed and later deny she ever saw, heard, or found out what he did. He will use other accomplices to validate his stories to increase her sensation that she is going crazy. ~~~~~~~~~ Children with a psychopathic father are exposed to the same level of aftermath symptoms that their mothers have experienced. The psychopath is not father material! As much as the psychopath likes to fake a lot of different behaviors in relationships, fake parenting is not one that should be tolerated. Fathers with psychopathic traits go to great lengths to appear to be good parents. As one woman said, “He acted like the ‘father of the year’ in public with the baby, but the minute he got home, he would toss the baby (in car seat) on the table and play video games.” After the relationship is established, and the psychopathic man feels secure in his position of dominance, he shows his true colors. He rules the roost and manipulates the children just as he does their mother. One woman said, “The kids were like servants that had to behave and do things perfect or else. He would control every aspect of their lives. They were never good enough, he never would say good job. He controlled with fear.” This controlling domineering behavior typically alternates with extreme permissiveness, as another woman revealed, “What he provided wasn’t any kind of care. He doesn’t change diapers or cleanup after them, etc. He allows them to run wild while he watches TV. The dog would go days without being cared for while he did his thing.” Many women have confided to us that they feel very guilty for supporting a psychopathic man in his court battles against a former partner. Psychopaths are convincing liars and tell stories about former partners being psychologically unstable and abusing them and the children. The men often use the children to continue to control and terrorize a former partner. One woman said, “He used his kids as pawns and encouraged them to hate their stepfather and view their mother as being in the wrong. He portrayed himself as a big victim of her unfair attitudes and rules and encouraged his kids to also view her in that light. But he would always end his criticism of her by saying, “But I’m not saying she’s a bad mother.” Yeah right…” It is common for a woman to remain pathologically attached to a psychopathic man even in the face of his blatant psychological abuse of her children. When women are able to break away from the relationship, they remain damaged and distracted with their desire to reunite with the psychopath. During the time women are depressed, dysfunctional, and desiring the psychopath, children are left without the focused and functional mothering they need to thrive. This is one of the reasons that focused and effective treatment is so important for women who love psychopaths. She must raise her level of functioning for the sake of her children and for herself. She will not to be able to detach until she gets the symptoms of depression and anxiety under control. Children who have consistent nurturing and are trauma-free through their teen years, have a good chance of being normal (unless they are very genetically predisposed to psychopathy). However, children who are born to pathological parents, mentally ill parents, or addicts who don’t provide these emotional and environmental necessities, may develop what we call “holes” in their emotional development. These holes in the soul are the deficits and represent all the good things that the child did not get. The personality structure then continues to grow “around” the missing elements that the child needed (like love, discipline, etc.). This growing around the critical elements is what produces the holes in the soul. The child had to grow in spite of not getting what he or she needed. In some ways, it is admirable and even adaptive that the child can keep going forward despite what he or she isn’t getting. If there was emotional, physical, or sexual abuse or general neglect, then the child’s emotional development could have been stunted. When people say children are “permanently marred by abuse or neglect,” what they are really referring to is that the child has developed a personality disorder from the abuse. The absence of what s/he needed, when s/he needed it, creates a personality disorder. Since personality disorders are formed in childhood and adolescence, we see the beginnings of possible pathology in behavioral problems in children and teens with: ADHD Reactive Attachment Disorder Oppositional Defiant Disorder Child Conduct Disorder Women are afraid to terminate relationships with men they discover are psychopaths because they are afraid that children will be harmed during unsupervised visitation. Harm to children from the psychopath occurs through blatant abuse, modeling of aggressive and hostile behavior and by inconsistent discipline. There is no doubt that all studies point to the fact that the biologic children of psychopathic men are better off if they have little or no contact with their fathers. Sandra Brown, MA - WOMEN WHO LOVE PSYCHOPATHS ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Cost-Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
May 4 - 9PM (Reply to #11)
malloryforest
malloryforest's picture

Barbara

I realized tonight that one of the things that is keeping me involved with this man is something competitive in me. I DON'T want my husband back, but I engage because I want him to leave her!!!! What is wrong with me. I know she hurt me, but I want to hurt her back by having my husband abandon her the way he abandoned me for her. I know this is childish. I know it doesn't help me move on and grow. I know it doesn't help my children, but I want both him and her to feel some of the pain that they have put me through. Please don't think I am a horrible person in saying this, but tonight was the first night I am recognizing this as one of the factors that keeps me involved with this man! Please, how do I move beyond this. It is a no win situation.
May 4 - 7PM (Reply to #2)
malloryforest
malloryforest's picture

Confused

He told me, he is telling her how confused he is...he is pbeing honest with her about how conflicted he is....
May 5 - 5PM (Reply to #5)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Narcissists are ALWAYS ON STAGE - They're never REAL

Why do some narcissists thrive on an audience to perform for and others hide what they're doing? by Kathy Krajco A recent commenter asks: why do some Ns thrive on an audience to perform for and other Ns hide what they're doing? I'm posting because this is an important and perplexing question, one that causes musch of the confusion about narcissism. But I'm posting off the top of my head here, because I haven't much time right now. The answer depends on the situation. Narcissists calculate how to get the most of their drug out of what they do. Lee Harvey Oswald wrote in his diary something intriguing in his reason for taking up communism (at the unbelievable age of 15). Did he give an ideolgical reason? No. He viewed becoming a communist as "the key to his environment." The key to HIS environment. In other words, becoming a communist was the best way he could think of for a kid in his life situation to get attention/NS. If he had been another kid, he would have needed to find a different key to a different environment. Every narcissist's environment is different, so every narcissist's style is different. Though they all are after the same thing, they each need and develop their own custom strategy to achieve it. Take for example a malignant narcissist who is a dictator, like Saddam Hussein, Adolf Hitler, or Josef Stalin. Do they really need to hide what they're up to? No, because nobody can hold them to account. They bully entire nations the way a weak narcissist bullies his pre-school-age children. That's the ultimate fix of grandiosity. Notably, in rising to power, dictators DO conceal their dirty deeds. They work hard at getting people to think they're good. Only when they feel secure does the angel-face mask come off. Then they go for The Big Fix, an orgasm of Narcissitic Supply (NS) = having people obsequiously crawl to him and grovel before him, courting his favor. To make people do this, they start showing off their ogrishness to intimidate and frighten people like Beelzebub. So, as their environment changes, their strategy changes. I think it always depends on the situation. When a narcissist cannot get positive attention (admiration), he or she will settle for the next-best thing, negative attention. Hence some narcissists commit crimes to get attention. Lee Harvey Oswald looked for somebody important to assassinate for attention. Usually, however, narcissists show off what a terror they are only to the VICTIM, in the dark, behind closed doors. Why? Because they don't dare get a big audience. They don't dare permit any other witnesses to what they do for the Big Fix whenever possible. To everybody but the lone victim, they wear an angel face to dissimulate their selves so no one will believe the victim about them. Why? Because they'd be generally abhorred if people knew what they really are. Nobody would want anything to do with them. They'd be shunned. No NS in that. But when nobody can hold you to account (as, for example, if you are Saddam Hussein), you can be as flagrant a bully as you want. Result? People don't shun you: they come crawling up to you to kiss up to you! No better souce of NS. http://narc-attack.blogspot.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com Cost-Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
May 5 - 7PM (Reply to #9)
cassiemay
cassiemay's picture

rejlies as we go

My husband was a master of the "covert" insunuation and insult. So much so that we lost friends because of this. I remember kicking him under the table to "stop it"!, but he would never respond. So humiliating, so unneccessary. They are sick. Cm
May 5 - 6PM (Reply to #6)
malloryforest
malloryforest's picture

Always on stage

I guess this explains why everyone at his work place thinks, or acts, like they like him....He is the boss, the head man, responsible for their jobs. Doesn't matter that I got to know everyone at the company. Doesn't matter that kids got to know other employee kids. Doesn't matter that GF is an ex employee. People at work still need a paycheck. THeymay despise him and his actions, but they still kiss his you know what. ANd before she left, they kissed her you know what, because she was connected to him. Two people I know lost their jobs because they openly disagreed with their behavior. I remember thinking how employees could put up with my H. He would cut them down right in front of other people. Mock them, embaress them, criticize them, and the people being targeted would just laugh. I would witness this all the time. At first I would stand up for these other people, but I was always told I had no sense of humor. I could tell the people he was attacking were uncomfortable, but they would just laugh along. After a bit of time, I thought, maybe I am being to sensitive. H loved to watch them squirm He loved to hurt them right to their face, all disguised as humor. And if the other person couldn't handle it, then they had the problem. It was always people at work, and he was always in the position of power, the boss.
May 5 - 10PM (Reply to #8)
Lisa E. Scott
Lisa E. Scott's picture

On stage

Oh yes, they're always on stage when they're out and about. That's because they think people are watching them all the time. It's so pathetic their need for attention. Mallory - I cannot give you any better advice than what Barbara and the other ladies already have. File for divorce and send the note Barbara suggested to his gf. As Quietude said, at least you don't have to work for him, right? Hang in there. This painful process is going to be so worth it, believe me. Hugs, L
May 5 - 6PM (Reply to #7)
quietude (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

thought

I just had a sick thought of you video taping him when he's bawling his eyes out and showing it to his subordinates...sorry, evil thought, don't do that. :P This should be further proof to you what a warped psychotic mess he is. Narcs leave a lot of destruction in the paths. Think of the person who is miserable because they were chewed out in front of her coworkers by this fool, has to go home and put on a good face for her kids and spouse, knows they have to keep the job for a while to support them, dreads going to work every day - their life, health and happiness are effected because the boss is a complete dick. They can ultimately choose to quit and have nothing to do with him anymore. So can we!
May 4 - 9PM (Reply to #4)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Mallory

IF HIS LIPS ARE MOVING - HE'S LYING