N v. P

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#1 Aug 2 - 12AM
girlfriday
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N v. P

I often wonder about the differences between Narcissists and Psychopaths.
I believe that I was involved with a narcissist for 2 years and then fell prey to a psychopath (tho I hate to say that word because that means I was in love with one).

I know that there is a spectrum. That all psychopaths are narcs, but not all narcs are psychopaths.
Sometimes when I'm on this board, I get very confused because I read about both, I think. And I was with both. But they were VERY different people. Very. So I almost feel like I should be on two separate message boards.

Susan32 always says that the narc is oblivious, but the psychopath is deliberate. I believe this. I also think the psychopath is more intentionally sadistic. I think this is key. Any thoughts??
I think this might very well be the main difference.

My N fits Lisa's description of a narc. He came off like a pious Mormon, but turned into Mr. Hyde when I disagreed with him about a painting. No joke. He liked it. I didn't. I was now vomit to him. It was a shocking transformation
!!!
He was super entitled. His motto was "my way or the highway" (he literally said this to me.) He devalued and discarded me every three months. Then the next day I was the love of his life. And he could be cold and mean and very stubborn. He could D&D and never look back.
BUT he did NOT lie or cheat. And he was not purposefully trying to mess with my head. He was, rather, what I would call "mercurial." He had a conscience, but no empathy for me at all when we were together. But he was human.

The suspected P, on the other hand, was a liar, cheater, manipulator extraordinaire. He fucked with my head (I think!!!???, cause when your head is being fucked with, you are never *quite* sure, which is what makes it a mindfuck. But I know.).
He had what seemed like empathy (an act), but clearly, no conscience about his blatant lying, cheating and mindfucking.
He is NOT a D&Der, but waits to see how much you can take, and when you say "enough" does everything to manipulate you back masterfully. Like a GAME. He never lets go. He is a collector. He will always check up on me forever. BUT he was always fun, easygoing, and never overtly mean

They are SO different. It was the second one that brought me bere, but the first one fits Lisa's description more so of a "narc" and, gawd, how I wish I had found this site when I was being yo-yo'd by him.

Anyway, I see a lot of Ps around here too. When I read about the games and manipulations and lying, my N doesn't fit into that. That stuff seems more like a P. But maybe I'm wrong.

So, do you think your Narc was more of a straight narc? Or a more of a psychopath?
Sorry this got so long! It's just something I've been thinking about since I came here. And I've never shared my story, but I guess that suffices.

Aug 3 - 10AM
Susan32
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How I saw the difference

My narcissistic former boss had tastes of his own. We could actually talk about music,movies, and TV shows. He had genuine hobbies--like antiques. When he hurt himself, he'd feel it. He'd curse like a sailor. When his mother died, he genuinely grieved. When his father came down with Alzheimer's, he got sympathy. He had SOME empathy. This doesn't excuse him for being a workplace bully, the constant belittling, the public humiliation of employees, the total lack of empathy when he fired me. My Narc boss had HUMAN qualities. It doesn't justify how he injured a coworker to the point she filed for disability. And lied about it. My psychopathic former professor NEVER talked about his interests/hobbies. We'd talk about movies. It's telling that he liked "Shakespeare in Love" (in which the Bard has an affair with an actress, and she doesn't know he's married) and "Spanish Prisoner" (about a con game) When he hurt himself, he was oblivious to his own injury. He stood there looking at his wound with a "what is this?" When I gave sympathy on account of an ill relative, he lashed out cruelly. I remember him saying, "I wish you didn't have feelings" and "Emotions scare me." An interesting thing I read is that while Psychs seek gratification (sex, power, wealth), they have such low libidos they could be deemed asexual. They may engage in perverted sexuality and/or be promiscuous, but the sex does nothing much for them, except for domination.
Aug 2 - 4PM
Briseis
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I think there can be some

I think there can be some crossover. A psychopath is always a narcissist, inside, but the opposite is not true. My exNarc was sadistic. He enjoyed hurting me, upsetting me, kind of like a kid toys with a bug, to see what it will do in it's struggles to escape. But so much of his behavior was also "helpless" in the way a Narc is helpless but to be a Narc. He had both elements. I agree in their "pure forms" they are very different. But on the psychiatric diagnostic spectrum, they are in the same "grouping" of personality disorders. Personality disorders can share "traits". Either way, they lack empathy. Whether or not they deliberately hurt you for fun or simply don't care that they hurt you, it amounts to the same thing for us. We are objects to them, not real people.
Aug 2 - 5PM (Reply to #6)
Susan32
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It hits home

Perhaps that's why the emotional memories of my D&D still hurt a decade later. I was in shock. "We are objects to them, not real people"-For me, that is painful because the Psychopath I was dealing with was my teacher, in a position of trust... someone we assume WON'T abuse us. No wonder in the teacher education program, I was suffering from PTSD and I was pained/triggered as one of the required reading articles told teachers that they should treat their students as OBJECTS. I knew what it was like being treated as an object. Even my ex-P admitted that he didn't respect students as people,and that he saw himself as a role, rather than a person (I told him to get mental help) An article urging teachers to objectify their students... brought back way too many bitter recent memories. I was in tears reading it. I knew what it was like to be used then discarded. Were psychopaths writing the teacher education texts?
Aug 2 - 12PM
rainbow1
rainbow1's picture

Good question

I have thought that mine is an N, but many people on this board have told me that he is a P for sure.

_______________________________________________
"dont let yesterday take up too much of today"

Aug 2 - 11AM
wholeagain
wholeagain's picture

I think both...

I think the ex is primarily a raging narcissist, and that's where he lives for the most part. He can't regulate his emotions or control them, he's predisposed to verbal (and written) vomit, his statements are typically overblown exaggerations, and emotionally he veers between toddler (tantrums) and junior high ("I am so popular!!!") But when it comes to sex and things related, he definitely veers into psychopath territory. That's where he's calculated and where I've seen him take delight in inflicting pain. Some of what he did in that arena was just oblivious narcissism too. I think trying to pigeonhole them into one or the other may be tricky as they may weave between the two depending on what's going on in their lives.
Aug 2 - 1AM
almostlydia
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I would be interested in a

I would be interested in a distinction myself because despite all the reading I have done, it is still unclear exactly. I know that in either case we should run like hell but I would still just like to know.

almostlydia

Aug 2 - 1AM
helldweller
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girlfriday

psychopath. No doubt in my mind. It was hard swallowing it, but I kept thinking of John Wayne Gacy, our near-neighbor, the beloved community man, friend to all. One of the things I think about a lot is that my narc is a judge in one of the most political jurisdictions in the nation. My ex husband, who is a reporter, says, "Helldweller, every man that is splashed across the headlines for every diabolical thing: that's your boyfriend. They are all men of whom people say, 'No, way.' But SOMEONE does that shit. And your boy is doing that shit. The lies, the girlfriends, the gay lovers, the cheating and lying and stealing. Our county is famous the world over for this, and your boy is the poster child." so "psychopath" has been a term I had to re-learn. And I had to re-learn that it is a label that has lots of sensationalism but plain, verifiable traits. The difference from every other self-centered label? Can he pretend to have emotions? Can he appear to care? Mine? Yes.