Seriously, how do Ns choose us!

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#1 Jan 11 - 11AM
hedidntbreakme
hedidntbreakme's picture

Seriously, how do Ns choose us!

I was in the gym minding my business, he approached me asked if I was a fitness instructor (flattery).

I did read somewhere that they study their victims (watch if ur wearing a wedding band, how often u frequent the gym in my case. How long do u stay at the gym (she has no one to go home to) but did I have Naive dumbass written on my face? I am I'n distress from my divorce? I want someone to NEED me?

Out of all the woman who frequent the gym, how did he know I was at my weakest state? I didn't tell anyone because I don't talk to anyone in the gym. How did he know?

Jan 11 - 1PM
Jean
Jean's picture

psychological vulnerability

That article was very good, and I wished there had been more information on what makes people emotionally & psychologically vulnerable. I have NEVER been worried about my physical safety, never had anyone threaten me that way, and I've done plenty of traveling alone including hitchiking and traveling cross country on my motorcycle. It just isn't a problem for me - I am really aware of my physical surroundings. I didn't get bullied in school, either. It's in the workplace where I seem to always run into trouble. It seems like where I am physically secure and confident, there is an underlying self-esteem issue that causes me to appear vulnerable. It's really aggravating b/c I can't deny it but I feel like I have to change my whole personality in order to get this to stop. I did learn from that article that "standing up" to the wrong person can backfire - I've had that happen before. But at the same time, I seem to project some kind of naive "niceness" at work. I wish I could figure it out, b/c I keep having nasty encounters (about once every 2 years, it seems) with PDIs. Maybe I just need to learn to recognize their traits and avoid them altogether. But I would prefer projecting the kind of self-confidence that causes them to leave me alone!
Jan 11 - 1PM (Reply to #15)
Briseis
Briseis's picture

I have been SUCH a PDI

I have been SUCH a PDI magnet my whole life :( I don't know if it is really a "bad" or dysfunctional thing that we project out there that attracts them. I'm not sure, but I suspect it is more our empathy and receptiveness and willingness to embrace and accept that they target. These are STRENGTHS, not weaknesses. Lisa has said many a time that being deeply empathic is a curse as much as a blessing. It's one of those talents that you have to get a grip on, you have to tame it and train it so it is at YOUR service instead of yanking you around on a chain. My second therapist told me one day (while I was moaning about being "too nice") that what I had was a beautiful thing, and it was very much needed. I'd never thought of it that way. It's how you use it, rather than it using you. I still have PDIs coming at me. I don't mean to make it sound like they swarm me, but I've run into quite a few of them at work and a few outside of work since I got rid of my Narc. It's more like I nip it in the bud before they can get their claws in me. It hasn't gone onto a "nasty encounter" so far. I don't tell them off or get aggressive or probably even that overtly assertive with them. I doubt they even realize I've shut them out. I just . . . don't pay any attention to them. When they try to engage me in a drama, I pretend to listen but not very attentively. I don't give anything back to them but "oh, hmmmm" or "that's too bad" or some other specious platitude that bores them and they go off to a more reliable source of feed. What I'd really like to do is conquer them and throw them out the window and be rid of them so NO ONE has to endure them, but that's just not my job in life, much less even possible. I try to be really reeaaallllyyyyy BORING to the PDIs I deal with in daily life. They don't hate me or even feel suspicion, they just go elsewhere for their meals. So far it's working. Does it strike them as "confidence"? Maybe, hadn't thought of it like that yet. More like imperturbable and covered in Teflon, hard to get your claws in that :)
Jan 12 - 5PM (Reply to #18)
Jean
Jean's picture

PDI magnet Briseis

Yes, yes!! I will be boring (I can DO this). And I know I do have ninja PDI-repelling skills b/c I rarely get sucked into this with women (unless they have some official power over me). My current theory is that Narc males are the most sophisticated of the PDIs when it comes to drawing me in. They so enjoy the seduction. . .and among the PDIs they are more high functioning than the other types, especially professionally. So far both Narcs I've known (i.e. been screwed over by) have been PhDs - so that does manage to convey some sort of sanity, even though it is a facade. And, I definitely appreciate your niceness, kindness, insight, patience, and willingness to help. :D
Jan 11 - 2PM (Reply to #16)
Scoop
Scoop's picture

My narc brainwashed me for a

My narc brainwashed me for a while that i targeted him and he was just an inocent bystander who reluctantly fell into a relationship with me , in fact when he d&d me lots of times he used this as a reason for leaving me (to go out with ow of cause). he would say "scoop i have tryed to tell you time and time again i dont love you and i never have , i spent my time with you because i felt sorry for you .. you just dont get the message do you "... such nice words eh ?... So heres how i know he chased me and that was i was "doing the rules" on him ,never once did i contact him first NEVER , except when i was so emeshed into a relationship with the disordered freak but even then i would just text him once or call him once a day ... but me calling my boyfriend of 2 years once a day was being "needy "... Ha he was the needy one ... another projection there .. he was the one whos needs only mattered and i jumpped over backwards to try and please him he was the needy one not me , i was trauma bonded to him because of his inconsistancys , he would bring me up and down at will , the rescuer and the abuser all in one . .... i am having a bit of an angrey phase due to a hover attempt last week from narc. He is a dick head .
Jan 12 - 6PM (Reply to #17)
fooled no longer
fooled no longer's picture

you too Scoop? the narc

you too Scoop? the narc always says hes incompatible with women and he just gets hit on by them. they always approach him. thats like the hyena predator wearing a bunny suit. gym is a good hunting ground for them.
Jan 11 - 12PM
prettypeeved
prettypeeved's picture

Boxes

I remember him telling me I "ticked all his boxes" which seemed so romantic at the time. Now it sounds like he really was filling in a mental form... [] Can be manipulated [] Finds me attractive [] Can be drawn into complicated mind-bending arguments about vague sentences etc.
Jan 12 - 5PM (Reply to #13)
Jean
Jean's picture

prettypeeved, funny

I feel for ya. I actually think I am somewhat drawn to "interesting" people. Hmmmmm. Must stop this and be happy with boring, kind, normal, mostly well adjusted people. But I am going to get a psychology degree so I can help the other kind (or at least defend myself against them!)
Jan 11 - 12PM (Reply to #12)
hedidntbreakme
hedidntbreakme's picture

Check check check check

Check check check check
Jan 11 - 12PM
Briseis
Briseis's picture

There have even been studies on this

http://www.protectivestrategies.com/victim-selection.html This is a pretty simple breakdown and a good resource to get ya thinking. I believe we are targeted. I imagine a predator tosses out his "bait" in a general way and see who is still standing around after a bit of time has gone by. Why Is Everybody Always Picking On Me? Short Circuiting the Victim Selection Process By Randy LaHaie Michele was uncomfortable when alone in public and questioned her ability to protect herself. She was tired of being the brunt of lewd remarks, unwanted advances and harassment. She was constantly singled out and bothered by panhandlers and drunken Casanova's at the bar. She decided to do something about it. About a year ago, Michele enrolled in a self-defense class at a local community center. She was committed to put an end to people taking advantage of her. She wanted to learn to defend herself and resolve her fears and worries once and for all. Michele enjoyed what she was learning. She began reading about self-defense and learned more about victimization and what to do about it. She became more interested in her fitness and practiced what she learned in self-defense class. She even hung up a boxer's heavy bag from the rafters in her basement and pounded on it to "burn off the stress" of a hard day at the office. She was feeling more confident and in control over her life. On a cold November night, Michele was walking alone to her car at the end of the late shift at her job as a hospital receptionist. Usually, she timed her departure to walk with the other employees but tonight she was too tired to wait and just wanted to get home. Unbeknownst to her, a predator was lurking in the shadows hunting for an unwitting victim. He spotted Michele walking in the distance. She spotted him too. She had trained herself to be aware of her surroundings and noticed him advancing toward her. A surge of adrenaline coursed through her. Her knees grew weak and her heart pounded as she fought off the urge to panic. She began to assess her situation and formulate a plan of action. She looked directly at the shadowy figure making it obvious that she was aware of his presence. Walking briskly and deliberately, she continued toward her car well aware that she was being followed. Do you know what happened next? Nothing! For whatever reason, the predator aborted his plan and renewed his search for someone else; someone who would be easier to catch off guard and control. Exactly why he chose not to finish what he started remains a mystery to Michele. You were probably hoping for a more dramatic climax to the story weren't you? If this was a Hollywood movie, Michele would have been attacked and, with an impressive blur of martial wizardry, she would have transformed her assailant into a crumpled, crotch-holding heap on the sidewalk. Sorry, not this time. The "Preparation Equals Prevention Theory" The more prepared you are to deal with a crisis, the less likely you will have to. Preparation equals prevention. People are drawn to self-defense training for varied and personal reasons. Often it's because they've been bullied, harassed or victimized in the past. Sometimes they haven't been but are concerned about the possibility. People need to feel safe. It is a fundamental human need and necessary for mental health. Many psychologists consider the threat of interpersonal violence to be a "universal human phobia." Proper self-defense training builds skill, fitness and self-confidence. Students soon become more comfortable with the idea of standing up to their harassers, whether they be a school yard or workplace bully, a drunk at the bar or a panhandler demanding money. They become more aware themselves, their surrounds and their options to deal with volatile situations. They become more indignant that someone would consider them and easy target. Often, as in Michele's case, the incidents that formerly plagued them just stop. Why is this? Victim Selection Criteria Psychologists have known for years that human predators select their prey based on signals given off by their potential victims. In a matter of seconds, the predator acquires a sense of who is and isn't a suitable target. For every victim that is attacked, many more are past over. What are the criteria that predators use to select their victims? I'll tell you. What does a predator look for? Like a wild animal, the human predator wants an easy conquest. He does not want his job to be any more difficult or hazardous than it has to be. He will seek out those he perceives as weak, submissive and unlikely to fight back. He doesn't want resistance and he certainly doesn't want to be injured himself. A sign of strength or defiance, whether blatant or implied, is often sufficient to cause him to abandon the predatory process and look for a more "cooperative" victim. If they can help it, bullies don't pick fights with people who will pound them into the pavement! They won't select people who will confront and challenge their behavior. Rapists, muggers, abusers and bullies look for someone they can dominate and control. Note: Some self-defense programs advocate ALWAYS adopting a defiant and challenging response in a confrontation. Don't accept simplistic solutions to complex problems. The world doesn't work that way. What may dissuade one assailant may infuriate another. A defiant response may create a situation where the assailant feels obligated to carry out his threat or "lose face." People will fight to save face even if think they'll lose! As you will learn in subsequent articles, we need to develop a range of skills and apply the most appropriate one for the circumstances encountered. The Grayson/Stein Study In 1984 two researchers, Betty Grayson and Morris I. Stein, conducted a study to determine the selection criteria applied by predators when selecting their victims. They videotaped several pedestrians on a busy New York City sidewalk without their knowledge. They later showed the tape to convicts who were incarcerated for violent offenses (rape, murder, robbery, etc.) They instructed them to identify people on the tape who would make easy or desirable victims. The results were interesting. Within seven seconds, the participants made their selections. What baffled researchers was the consistency of the people that were selected as victims. The criteria were not readily apparent. Some small, slightly built women were passed over. Some large men were selected. The selection was not dependant on race, age, size or gender. Even the convicts didn't know exactly why they selected as they did. Some people just looked like easy targets. It appears that much of the predator/prey selection process is unconscious from the perspective of both predator and the potential victim. Video Analysis Still at a loss of specific selection criteria, the researches had a more thorough analysis of the movement and body language of the people on the videotape. Here is an overview of the results: 1. Stride: People selected as victims had an exaggerated stride: either abnormally short or long. They dragged, shuffled or lifted their feet unnaturally as they walked. Non-victims, on the other hand, tended to have a smooth, natural gate. They stepped in a heel-to-toe fashion. 2. Rate: Victims tend to walk at a different rate than non-victims. Usually, they walk slower than the flow of pedestrian traffic. Their movement lacks a sense of deliberateness or purpose. However, an unnaturally rapid pace can project nervousness or fear. 3. Fluidity: Researchers noted awkwardness in a victim's body movement. Jerkiness, raising and lowering one's center of gravity or wavering from side to side as they moved became apparent in the victims analyzed. This was contrasted with smoother, more coordinated movement of the non-victims. 4. Wholeness: Victims lacked "wholeness" in their body movement. They swung their arms as if they were detached and independent from the rest of their body. Non-victims moved their body from their "center" as a coordinated whole implying strength, balance and confidence. 5. Posture and Gaze: A slumped posture is indicative of weakness or submissiveness. A downward gaze implies preoccupation and being unaware of one's surroundings. Also, someone reluctant to establish eye contact can be perceived as submissive. These traits imply an ideal target for a predator. In his book, "The Danger From Strangers," author James D. Brewer quotes one of the researchers who conducted the above mentioned study, "Grayson is convinced that when people understand how to move confidently they can, ‘be taught how to walk that way and substantially reduce their risk of assault'" How does this apply to Prevention Theory? If you read between the lines of this research, the "Preparation Equals Prevention Theory" makes more sense. The traits described above indicate varying degrees of balance, coordination and awareness. They imply a person's perceived vigilance and potential to fight. Self-defense study and training develops the qualities of movement that discourage victim selection and project a "don't mess with me" demeanor. This explains why a person who had formerly been bullied or victimized takes up the study of self-defense and the incidents that originally plagued him or her stop. Unlike Professor Grayson, I doubt that the solution to reducing one's victim potential is as simple as taking "walking lessons." Also, contrary to what many self-defense instructors suggest, you cannot simply "pretend" or "fake" confidence and expect to ward off predatory selection. I doubt that a deliberate attempt to modify the way you walk, move and swing your arms (even if you could do so) would bring about the desired results. Imagine an awkward, out of shape person trying to consciously correct flawed body movements associated to being awkward and out of shape. You can't fake coordination. You can't fake balance. You can't fake strength or endurance. However, each of these qualities can be developed through the study of self-defense and can dramatically reduce the risk of assault. So What? How Can I Use This Information? Much of the predator/prey selection process is subconscious. I believe that it is an evolutionary quality of the subconscious mind that we inherited from our ancestors. It would have been necessary for survival to select a prey that would not turn around and bite your head off! Those who lacked this quality would have undoubtedly been eliminated from the gene pool. It is unlikely that you can consciously and consistently control non-verbal signals that you project. However, this is not to say that you cannot impact those signals in a powerful and positive way. Here is what you can do. · Develop Your Awareness Skills The predator is looking for a victim who is unaware, preoccupied and easy to ambush. By becoming more aware of your surroundings, you not only increase the odds of detecting a potential predator, but you project an image of vigilance. This, in itself, can terminate the selection process.* *For more information on awareness see, "The Nuts and Bolts of Awareness." · Get Into Shape Your level of fitness impacts your ability to defend yourself. First, if you are attacked your ability to successfully escape or fight off the attacker is dramatically impacted by your physical condition. Secondly, a strong, well-toned body will manifest the quality of movement of a non-victim. Finally, fitness impacts your personality in a positive way. The increased self-esteem, confidence and emotional resilience that result from being in good physical condition are non-victim qualities that predators want to avoid. · Enroll in a Self-defense Course There are no superior martial arts, only superior martial artists. Don't get hung up on picking "the best" style or program. I am a strong advocate of self-defense and martial arts training (either at a club or through self-study) to reduce your risk of assault. For reasons I've mentioned, self-defense training reduces the likelihood of having to defend yourself. Learn all you can about confrontational situations and develop tools to deal with them. Incorporate regular practice such as boxing glove drills for example* or learn how to punch and kick a boxer's heavy bag. Have fun with it. See the article: "Reach Out and Punch Someone!" Knowledge is Power: Knowledge reduces fear and builds confidence. Confidence is a non-victim quality. Read books and articles about self-defense. Do what you can to clarify your "mental maps" of how confrontations happen, how to avoid them, and how to respond if you can't. The most dangerous attitude in a confrontation is the, "It will never happen to me Syndrome." The fact that you are reading this article already puts you well ahead in the "non-victim game." Work On Yourself From the Inside Out. I narrowed the content of this article to the more "straight forward" aspects of reducing your victim potential. There are many other aspects associated to personality and psychology that impact your victim potential and your ability to deal effectively with a confrontation. I will discuss these qualities, and how to develop them, in future articles. In the meantime, do what you can to increase your self-esteem, mental toughness, motivation etc. Conclusion Your potential of becoming a victim is influenced, in large part, to the unconscious signals you project to an assailant. Predators, whether deliberately or intuitively, form an opinion about you and how easy you will be to dominate and control. They are looking for a weak, submissive and unaware target that won't (or can't) fight back. You can control the non-verbal signals you project by investing time in the study and practice of self-defense. Your projected body language will take care of itself. You can't fake it. You must earn it. This is not as difficult as you might think. If you really want to prevent or dramatically reduce the probability of becoming a victim, prepare yourself. Preparation equals prevention!
Jan 11 - 12PM
helldweller
helldweller's picture

how do they know?

I was a prime target: newly divorced woman with two little girls who just moved in next door. My husband had been on the front page of the Chicago papers a few years earlier for committing arson (he was a firefighter), and I was very leery about telling him about it as I didn't want to turn him off. He made a big show of saying it was "no big deal. stuff happens." He even said it was too bad. He and my ex husband used to smoke together outside the convenience store in the morning (when my ex would come to take our daughters to school), and he went out of his way to say, "too bad, he seems like a nice guy." I was so busy being relieved that he didn't care about the stigma on our family that I didn't mind that he showed up late every night, didn't like going on dates, didn't want me to meet his friends, etc. I do remember the first thing he said, the first day I saw him at the convenience store, with my daughters trailing behind me. "Good morning, beautiful ladies!" A few months later, after exchanging hellos each morning, we had a conversation about life and love, and I asked why he'd never married. He said, "I've never found someone who I knew would be a good wife and mother, and that's all that matters to me." Turns out he told the other woman that he'd never married because he just wasn't interested in it, and had never really thought about having children. It's really scary, sick, evil. I see him now on the playground in the morning, and I can just imagine him saying the same crap to the other single mothers there. Of course, now that he has his foster child, I'm sure he also adds a load of other crap like "trying to find a good mother for my orphan" and other sh*t that makes me want to throw up just thinking about it.
Jan 11 - 3PM (Reply to #9)
Jewwell
Jewwell's picture

I was quite a Target, too!

I was quite a Target, too! "Middle-aged", LONELY and LONG marriage, soon to be empty-nester and he just made me feel so good about myself at the beginning. We talked and talked and talked and he seemed to really GET me. I longed for a "partner" and we did so many things together... with me paying, unfortunately.
Jan 11 - 11AM
FUMB
FUMB's picture

When I met mine I was

When I met mine I was literally a damsel in distress... I had to call the cops to file a police report (long, long, story)... he was the cop who came to my house to take the report. So, I was PRIME target, stressed out, vulnerable, scared, SINGLE MOM! UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If it's not obvious that we are in a vulnerable state (like me) they probably just go from girl to girl til... BINGO... they find the nice, trusting one.
Jan 11 - 11AM
FUMB
FUMB's picture

When I met mine I was

When I met mine I was literally a damsel in distress... I had to call the cops to file a police report (long, long, story)... he was the cop who came to my house to take the report. So, I was PRIME target, stressed out, vulnerable, scared, SINGLE MOM! UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If it's not obvious that we are in a vulnerable state (like me) they probably just go from girl to girl til... BINGO... they find the nice, trusting one.
Jan 11 - 11AM
Journey
Journey's picture

For all you know

How do you know he didn't approach every woman he found attractive with the same line? It is how we respond to the initial flattery and approach that tells them all they need to know about us in order to see if we are weak enough or too strong to waste time trying to get the supply they need. If the cluster B is up for a challenge, then even the strongest and most self assured targets may be chosen. They don't really know what emotional state we are in until we tell them with reactions, words and body language. Journey on...

Journey on...

Jan 12 - 5PM (Reply to #5)
Jean
Jean's picture

strong targets

I think the N I know is into this. . .only b/c after me I spotted him perched on the desk of another female co-worker, single, cute 30-ish, doing his seduction routinte. It was extremely satisfying to see this, especially when he stood up and nervously scooted toward the exit, looking guilty as heck as he saw me walk by. And, that person's supervisor is a friend so I mentioned he was pulling another routine like he did with me (she knew my whole story) and I think the sup actually said something to her. Anyway, he no longer hangs out over there. He's a clever little disordered creature. I am suppressing the urge & temptation not to try to defeat him, since my job can be kinda boring. . .
Jan 12 - 9AM (Reply to #4)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Them reading us reading them

I found the ex-Psych professor's behavior so bizarre I think he suspected I was treating him as much a psychological specimen as he was treating me. I do think he went after me because I was strong&self-assured. Now that I've been reading "War and Peace" (which he confuses with real life), there's some bizarre design in it. In "War and Peace", the psychopathic Anatole seduces Natasha. She's smitten. He says they can elope--well, it turns out he's already married. Natasha is despairing, humiliated, and attempts suicide. The ex-P expected a certain reaction... but I didn't attempt suicide. During the final D&D, he'd reduce me to tears--but after meeting the girlfriend I was suddenly confident, basically moving on. The ex-P was always paranoid. Since he hasn't seen my body language or emotional reactions in a decade, he honestly doesn't know how I "feel." If anyone read what I've written to him when breaking NC... it's open to interpretation. And the last time I wrote it was plain ol' cognitive dissonance and word salad. One would've thought I was trying to confuse him on purpose. I must've thrown him off when I calmly congratulated him on being engaged, a serene smile on my face, and he threw a tantrum... and I still remained calm.
Jan 11 - 12PM (Reply to #2)
hedidntbreakme
hedidntbreakme's picture

That makes a whole lot of

That makes a whole lot of sense and yes, he did hit on just about everyone in the gym because he did it right n my face when we were together.
Jan 12 - 2AM (Reply to #3)
helldweller
helldweller's picture

hedidntbreak me--in your face

Yep, they have no concept of decency or even self respect and will hit on others right in front of us. Wouldn't you be ashamed to hit on people in front of someone who knew you were a lying piece of crap? Mine was standing on the playground yeterday, chatting with another single mom, wearing the coat I gave him last year and the ear muffs my daughter gave him for Christmas. I mean, seriously, am I NOT supposed to go over and smack him? or at least laugh in his face? LOL