Signs Your Narcissist is Cheating

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#1 Dec 21 - 3PM

The Girlfriend ...

Signs Your Narcissist is Cheating

I was asked recently 'why' do I NEED to know the signs and to 'catch' my N BF in the act and I have contemplated this for a few days...I have caught my N BF before...I KNOW he cheats and lies and know that it is a common trait/behavior of a large number of narcissists, especially a somatic narcissist...

...but 'why' do I need to know with certainty, to have the 'evidence' to hand him so I can walk away????

One of the most important reason for me is to be able to trust MYSELF again. Not only do Narcisissits deny their bad behavior, but go to great lengths trying to convince you that YOU are the crazy, deficient, untrusting person. And sometimes we deny it to ourselves too. They will work VERY hard to convince us we 'are seeing things'...'that they did not cheat...and sometimes, because we need to believe them, as otherwise would hurt too much, we allow them to convince us they aren't cheating...

This robs us of even the ability to trust our own intincts and we learn not to listen to our 'gut feelings' or 6th sense that we are born with...in order not to rock the boat, or be blamed or abused.

I think one of the reasons, for me at least, is that my N BF has blamed me for his behaviors and the things he does for a long time. He also denies things, even when confronted with his lies and has only partially admitted to 'being a real bad boy' when there is some proof of his secret sex life....sometimes even when I ask him an innocent question not even related...such as 'How was your lunch today"?'...he acts like I am accusing him of something, and he will twist things around to somehow be my fault for 'not trusting HIM'...you guys pretty much all know the drill...as Narcs all twist things , lie, deny...do whatever it takes to cover their ways...whether it is in their serial cheating...etc.

So I guess I DO need some advice here about how to catch them cheating or how you found out about your N having another hidden secret life with OW? And what did he do when confronted?

This last Thursday night I stayed downtown at my apartment as I had been in a late meeting...and there was also a snow storm, so it was just more convenient. I called my N BF to let him know before he left his office. The next morning when I went home to our house where we live together there was an empty 'delicate wine glass' on the counter, not the kind he would ever use, and he NEVER has wine alone...only rarely drinks a beer with the 'guys'...he acted 'funny about me seeing it...and actually has been acting secretive again...but he is being more careful at hiding things...

I just want to restore and heal my own ability to trust my own instincts, I have had to squelch them for so long just living with him for the last 2 years (and being with him for 3)...I am tired of being told that the very things I SEE and KNOW in my heart...are not true. I'm tired not only of his ability to lie to me and hide his cheating...but also of my own ability to lie to myself.

What are some of the tale-tale signs your N did that gave him away? Did he deny cheating...even though you knew he was? Did he make promises to you to stop?...What did you do?

#2 Dec 14 - 9AM

Clara5656

My Testimony and Joy, please read on

good

#3 Oct 3 - 12PM

aircooled

Outrageous denials

#4 Dec 22 - 4PM (Reply to #58)

Russell1331

So sorry

-JR1331

#5 Aug 2 - 2PM

helldweller

Signs he is cheating

That was a big one: when I came over and all of the photos of my daughters and I were gone. He said, "they must have fallen behind the dresser." ???????? I found them underneath everything in his underwear drawer. I thought about super gluing them to the wall. I kept bringing photos over, in frames, in magnetic holders for the fridge, photos of him and my daughters, photos of our three kids together, photos of him and me. He would say, "Oh, those are great. Honey, I have NO problem putting these up. Thank you!" and the very next time I was over they would be gone. Every time. I also know now, sickeningly, that he stopped letting me be near his foster child because the child would innocently tell me about stuff they had done with other women. The first time it happened I said, "Narc, the first lesson in "Parenting for Assholes" is: if the baby is old enough to talk, don't bring him around your girlfriends." And he laughed. Yep. Laughed.

#6 Aug 2 - 6PM (Reply to #56)

Lisa E. Scott

Puhleaze!

He said, "they must have fallen behind the dresser." ???????? Give me a break. Do they really think we believe their bs?!$#!!

#7 Aug 2 - 6PM (Reply to #55)

happydaysahead

HAHAHA ......

Parenting for Assholes. Made me laugh. Thanks, I needed that !!

#8 Jul 31 - 5PM

Narcd Out

All Narc'd Out:) My exN's

All Narc'd Out:) My exN's secretiveness would increase when he was "grooming" his next victim. Suddenly, he had to hide his cell phone. In hindsight, he would make comments or ask questions that were related to the OW, though I had no idea at the time (such as, "So you would never get a tattoo?" when OW had...."You should get a sundress, you would look awesome"....meaning some OW he'd hooked up with had one on). The biggest predictor I learned was that he would slowly start criticizing me - everything about me. If it was a woman he didn't want a relationship with and was just planning on having sex with her - he would be overly nice and would start doing things for me. Otherwise, he was verbally abusive - and was preparing for the discard (but not until he had his next victim secured). I, too, felt for the longest time I had to "prove" he was lying. He demanded proof as well. One of the things that struck me...if I was in a healthy relationship and brought up concerns that my partner was cheating, they would act genuinely concerned, would want to know why you felt that way and would do what they could to ease your fears. That is not the case with the Narcissist. They get defensive and really, could care less about why you feel that way. That is a HUGE RED FLAG. Those gut feelings - those little hairs that stand up on your neck - those are god-given gifts and we have them for a reason. LISTEN TO YOUR GUT. The fact that he seems to non-chalant about the wine glass, alone, shows a utter lack of regard for your feelings and fears. My ex-N lied right to my face, repeatedly, without even batting an eyelash. He would continue to deny even if I had "proof". You will NEVER get validation from a Narcissist - even AFTER the relationship has ended unless of course, there is something for THEM to gain from being honest. Honesty is something that use only when it benefits them; otherwise, it is just as easy and convenient for them to lie. You will NEVER get validation from a Narcissist - even AFTER the relationship has ended and you will drive yourself crazy trying to find cold, hard evidence. And when you do, it will not change WHAT they do or WHO they are. I know that is hard to hear but it is the truth. LISTEN TO YOUR GUT - it's shouting at you for a reason.

All Narc'd Out:)

#9 Jul 31 - 7AM

helldweller

The open relationship

is NOT what we had. This is the guy that went across the country for eight days and slept in bed with another woman and "our" foster child--and then lied to me about having cancer so I wouldn't keep seeing the new man in my life. God, how many times I TRIED to say, "Obviously you are seeing other people, so let's just agree to see other people!" No, no, no, no, no. He would not agree to ME seeing anyone else.

#10 Jul 30 - 12PM

helldweller

wholeagain, amy and others

I am so, so sorry you were debased by these demons. What kind of creatures are these? Being treated like crap by a man with a four-year-old's brain is one thing, but that whole sickening culture is another. I am so very sorry. You are beautiful, wonderful, good hearted women, and I hate them for doing that to you

#11 Jul 30 - 10AM

helldweller

Compartments

The best line was when I found out he went to visit another woman in California for a week and took "our" child with him. He said, "I had a right to lie because it's a private relationship. It has nothing to do with you." When he moved into the new house, next door to his old building, his best friend came to pick him up for dinner. The narc WENT NEXT DOOR A FEW MINUTES BEFORE HIS FRIEND ARRIVED AND CAME OUT OF THE OLD BUILDING SO HIS BEST FRIEND WOULDN'T KNOW HE HAD MOVED!" The narc had been working on this house for FOUR YEARS and never mentioned it to his best friend, on purpose. The day before he moved in, I asked him, "When do you think you'll move?" and he said, "Who knows?" The next morning the moving crew was there at 8am. I honestly think he was hoping I'd be gone and wouldn't know he had moved in NEXT DOOR TO ME BECAUSE IT WAS PRIVATE INFORMATION! When he got his foster child, about SIX WEEKS LATER we went to his house for dinner and the narc went into the kitchen to make us drinks. After a few minutes, his best friend confusedly asked, "So is this your little boy?" because he had met my daughters many times before already. My mouth fell open and I asked, "You mean you don't know who this is?" The narc had not only NOT MENTIONED not having a foster child to his best friend, but had left it to ME to tell him the news. When I was pregnant, I demanded that he discuss it with me. "What?" I asked him. "Is your own baby going to sleep in a crib in my kitchen while your foster child has his own BATHROOM in your house?" He was completely insane about my having a baby. He just kept denying I was pregnant. I think he honestly wanted one so badly, but the thought of someone KNOWING he had a relationship with a woman or that he'd had sex with me or THAT A CHILD WOULD LOOK LIKE HIM was so much a freak out impsosition on his personal space and secretive nature that he could. not. handle. it.

#12 Jul 30 - 9AM

janine

Does cheating get worse under stress?

There's something else I wanted to ask you. While the somatic narcissist is always keen on new supply,have you also noticed that he gets worse,when other things go wrong in his life?Like problems at work or a financial crisis. Meaning that when supply gets less in one area it must be stepped up in another?

#13 Jul 31 - 5PM (Reply to #48)

Narcd Out

Yes - worsen with stress

All Narc'd Out:) WAY worse when under stress and/or when other things go wrong in their life. My experience with my exN was that he would start projecting like there was no tomorrow during those times and all the ugly traits he had that caused all the stress and crisis in his life, he suddenly tried to make all about me.

All Narc'd Out:)

#14 Jul 31 - 5PM (Reply to #49)

loveofmylife

Ugly Traits

Yep, sickening isn't it? When things don't go according to their master plan in life, they get very, very ugly and start blaming those closest to them (us) for everything that went wrong! I have never been falsely accused of something in my life, but in the couple of times when things went bad with N, I was accused for all of it!!! Apparently I was plotting secretly for months to do these things to him...unbelievable when I would have practically chopped off a finger for him! He somehow came up with these devious little conspiracy theories that involved me....but it really helped me see into his head, because I would never imagine someone doing such devious things....but apparantly since they can do such devious things it comes into the rhealm of possibiliites for them!

#15 Jul 30 - 10AM (Reply to #47)

loveofmylife

One more thought

I view it like a drug addict. When things get bad in their life, they just increase the drug usage....same thing with Ns....things get bad and they try to crank up the supply to "kill the pain".

#16 Jul 30 - 9AM (Reply to #46)

wholeagain

Definitely

Was always the case.

#17 Jul 30 - 9AM (Reply to #44)

loveofmylife

Yes,

The day after I turned him down at work and told him I no longer wanted to work together (we would communicate at least 20 times/day and see eachother, lunch together, laugh, talk hours/day)....the day after, he put a post up on match.com.

#18 Jul 30 - 11AM (Reply to #45)

narcdx3

Working together

Yeah the day I told mine no more he started a campaign to get rid of me. He turned all his little women against me(I was their supervisor) and now I'm without a job--even though they knew there was more than me and he was retaliating against me. Stupid me---it took this to see he was a womanizing pig!

#19 Jul 30 - 9AM

janine

Signs your narcissist is cheating

Reading through what others say about their open relationships I have to add,yeah,they still lie,no matter how tolerant you are. In strange ways. Example:He placed an ad in the local paper to find a woman for a three-some.I see him putting a letter into his pocket,when we go out.He asks me "Did you see today's paper,was the ad there?"Later I look at the letter,and it's a reply to that ad. That chap kept lying to everyone,about everything,he got mixed up not remembering what he'd told people.Easy to see through,but what is the point? Some lies of course are to gain something,hide something,maybe even provoke some reaction from you to feel in control. Some,as the above,makes no sense at all. Or does it to their twisted minds make some sort of sense we fail to see? Do they even know any longer what is the truth,half-truth or a lie?

#20 Jul 30 - 8AM

The Girlfriend ...

That's what I Mean, Helldweller! Exactly!

We learn to deny the signs to ourselves...and that combined with their lies about virtually everything big and small...really adds up to throwing us off the 'scent' (truth)Add in their 'childish behaviors' and acting out...all the manipulations they do to keep you from figuring out the truth about them...and voila!...They seem to have an advantage at keeping us from knowing what we are really dealing with...in all respects. I learned to turn the tables on my pathological BF...'Man about Town'...'Prince Charming'..who is really a lying/cheating TOAD! When I would find out about little signs and clues...I learned to ask myself questions like this: Why would *I* send a man a text message that says "Where R U, Honey?"....HONEY??? Would 'friends' who txt 'friends' really be using terms of endearment? (we girls text each other this way, but another woman to a man?...he isn't '*Honey* to her unless he is MORE than a friend...or it's from his mother!) It is with these very telling clues like this, coupled with the 'little lies' they tell us to distract us from 'knowing what we know'...that we learn to discount our own inner gut instinct. You don't want to believe what you really know...and HE doesn't want you to believe what you KNOW either! This all works VERY well for these SNAKES! Forget love - I'd rather fall in chocolate!

#21 Jul 30 - 7AM

helldweller

Cheating

Gosh, I still don't know. There were women he lied to me about seeing, but claims they are old friends from law school. He gets texts saying, "Where are you honey?" and "I'm thinking about you" but claims they are just friends. He is so compartmentalized, cannot have two friends in the same room together, so maybe it's just that? Maybe he is just so obsessively compartmentalized he can't handle our life overlapping with his life with someone else? He is such a little boy and so secretive I still almost believe him. He lies about seeing guy friends of his, too, about what he had for lunch, about everything. So with me, it was impossible to tell. Maybe that was his M.O.: lie about everything to throw her off! Or maybe he's a lying, disgusting, cheating son of a bitch. Your post reminds me: what must it be like to live in their world, with all of these lies to maintain, the phone and computers to protect, the stories to keep straight, etc etc?

#22 Jul 30 - 9AM (Reply to #39)

loveofmylife

Over-compartmentalizing

My N over-compartmentalizes too. And he uses the word "compartmentalize" like it is a virtue and he has always told me that he "specializes in boundaries". But this is not a virtue the way they do it. They do it because they have many, many secret lives where one woman cannot find out about the other, and they do it because they lie so much and they can't keep track of who they told what, so they can't risk people sharing stories. A person of true virtue has no reason to compartmentalize because they live their life well and live their life as an open, honest book. There is nothing to hide.... I was going to start a new thread on compartmentalizing or "boundaries" as mine calls it - as I think I"m starting to get this better! when I saw his emails, he got this very wierd look on his face and said "you invaded my personal RELATIONSHIPS!" Ok, first of all, notice how he used the word relationshipS - when he told me he was in a committed relationship. And notice how he acted like we had no personal relationship, which is not what had been going on for the last 20 or so years. It was like I was a complete outsider to him. The web of lies and deceit is amazing.

#23 Jul 31 - 2PM (Reply to #40)

almostlydia

that's exactly what I came

that's exactly what I came to see - they had to keep people separate because they had so many secret lives going on and he could never remember what he had told the other. I had two of his OW's ask me if he ever said things to me about things we had done or talked about that you had never done or heard before? I used to say all the time, 'think you got the wrong girl'. Eventually,I was so jaded I could just say sh*t like, 'must be an incredible amount of work to keep up with all those lies'. This has got to be a huge part of the reason that fear is there greatest emotion. Lying so much and being exposed. I love that comment: The brain thinks, the heart feels, but the gut KNOWS! So so true. Listening to my gut is my new number one goal, right after keeping my boundaries!

almostlydia

#24 Jul 30 - 7AM

The Girlfriend ...

What a Private Investigator Told Me

There often isn't a 'smoking gun'...but we KNOW instinctually when they are messing around. I had spoken with a private detective for a free consult, and he told me that the very FIRST sign and 'evidence' of a man cheating is that you have to ask that question in the first place "Is He Cheating?' He said that nearly 100% of cases he takes...by the time someone finally consults an investigator...it nearly ALWAYS proves later that their gut instinct was right, and that their BF/husband was definitely cheating on them. He also said that a cheater will nearly 100% of the time DENY, DENY, DENY...and then turn things around on their mate for 'not trusting them'...if this occurs...he said it is also a sure sign your mate is cheating. (a defensive behavioral sign like this is evidence, but not *proof*) He had a number of 'funny' stories about what some of these cheaters said when confronted red handed in the middle of the act! He said that even THEN...when a Cheater is butt-naked and caught actually 'doing the deed'...the will actually be denying what they are seen doing...while they struggle to get dressed!...and then get mad at their GF/wife for 'spying, or checking up on them'... Also, there is a big difference between aman having a 'one time affair'...for which he feels remorse later...and does not repeat this behavior...and someone who 'serial cheats' and is always looking for validation via sexual encounters/affairs...the later is a sign that the person is NOT a 'Player, Romeo, Casanova...or just sowing his 'wild oats'...it is a sign of a man with a personality disorder and character flaw...things that cannot be cured... Forget love - I'd rather fall in chocolate!

#25 Jul 31 - 1AM (Reply to #37)

girlfriday

good info

I once heard this: The brain thinks, the heart feels, but the gut KNOWS. My gut knew, despite DENIAL DENIAL DENIAL. And he was so good at denying and gaslighting, that I used to say that even if I found him in bed naked with underaged twins, he'd deny what was going on, spin it somehow, and I'd probably believe his innocence. Ugh.

#26 Jul 29 - 5PM

janine

Signs your narcissist is cheating

The lies may seem like the worst part,because you cannot trust a liar and may stop trusting your instincts. I had a long relationship/affair with a narcissistic guy I wanted strictly on sexual terms (not that this pleased him). Having picked up from hints that his many former relationships had ended because of his affairs,I told him to go ahead long as he was discreet. Since I'm pretty new here maybe I should add that this was during a very bad phase of my life, I am not normally that shallow. Anyway, in this unusual arrangement, I have seen far more than many women here may just be guessing at. And there is absolutely no limit for a somatic narcissist,in numbers and variety, and it does not matter how open-minded you are sexually. The stuff they crave needs to get hotter the longer they live,because they have tried out just about everything. It has nothing to do with you at all. Just another way to keep their precarious balance same as any success they need at work, with people,projects. Admittedly it is more painful to us than all others. As I watched that man hunting for prey I realised that it often is the phase of managing to get someone new into bed that provided the ego-boost. Afterwards he mostly seemed as discontent as usual. The actual bad part are not the lies nor the cheating,but that being so empty inside they are desperately needy and greedy. Such a person is not worth the huge health risk and suffering.

#27 Jul 29 - 5PM (Reply to #28)

wholeagain

Yep

My relationship was "open" for a while, at first by agreement then because he couldn't stop looking for supply. He had all kinds of arrangements, sometimes it wasn't as much about getting sex as getting a woman to admit she wanted it. He'd make blood pacts where he'd get the woman to agree to do whatever he said, and all sorts of stuff that's just embarrassing now. Mr Svengali, oh brother! And as well, there seemed to be no limit. Always another mountain to climb. Anyway, even when we had an open relationship he couldn't tell the truth. In my heart and gut I always knew when he was lying, always. He'd rub his nose or yawn when he wasn't telling the truth, and he'd give too much detail. If I pressed it, he'd pitch a fit to see if that would get me to back off. If that didn't work he got weary of my trust issues (it was my fault). I can relate to wanting a big fat smoking gun, but even when I had it I barely acted and was easily sucked back in by his grand apologies and promises to change. So...I guess I'm saying that looking for that concrete proof may be just another way of putting off having to act.

#28 Jul 31 - 7PM (Reply to #35)

girlfriday

wholeagain

Hmmmm...I think we had the same N. I could have practically written everything you wrote. Not the "blood pacts" per se, but he LOVES to see how much of a puppet he can turn a gal into. He would also rub his nose or sniff when lying. And give way too much detail. He would make up detailed stories on the spot that were completely fabricated. And yes, the fit-pitching. And then it was my "trust issues" that I had to work on. And even when you think they've finally come clean and you can deal with their ways and rules, they still lie. It's a way of life. In my case, I could not rest until I got the smoking gun. I got it. Sadly, even when you have that smoking gun, sometimes it's still not enough to finally say, "Enough."

#29 Jul 29 - 10PM (Reply to #34)

narcdx3

Cheater

I divorced my N for cheating---I knew it for a long time in my soul but he denied it to the death. When I got the call saying your husband is messing with my wife I confronted him by saying, "is there anything you need to tell me, like who you've been doing" He went off and said there you go again your crazy. When I said her name he started begging like a big idiot. Uh not I think I need to get away from you for now. But 3 days later I was back on his porch like a lost dog. It makes me sick to think about it. So I finally go thru with the divorce only to hook back up 3 years later to find myself reliving the entire saga again. Secretive, never giving answers for where he was going, when he would be back, cell phone calls, texts and hiding the phone, he even slept with it in another room--slept on top of it. He had surgery and even took it back with him. Here I was saying well I don't have hard proof he's just got friends and he doesn't want to anger me blablabla. Due to my religion I wouldn't divorce except for adultery---finally I found him on facebook---he wasn't doing her on there but his talking sure was nasty and I said to myself--no way a man that aint giving it up at home for over a year is talking to a chick like this and not getting it somewhere. I still doubt myself in getting the divorce since I didn't catch him red handed. I mean he has 2 hands, a computer and an imagination--he could have took care of himself all that time right???

#30 Jul 29 - 8PM (Reply to #29)

Amy

Sounds familiar

Mine got me to go to swinger's clubs with him. We never swapped, but I did do things with other women in front of him - to turn him on. While he started out saying he didn't want another woman, he started asking me to bring home another girl so he could get us both to give him a BJ (I never did that though). He pushed for dirtier and dirtier sex. It was part of the reason I left him last February. We would go on a Saturday night about once a month, and I would be so hung over on Sunday I was vomiting. Drinking profusely was the only way I could cope with being there. And then we went more often - almost to the point of every weekend. When we got back together this March, I told him NOT doing that anymore was a condition of the relationship. Every once in a while he said I was not "fun" anymore. I began to suspect he was cheating - hiding his phone, sensitive when I asked what he did that day, etc. I too wanted a "smoking gun" but never got one. I would be a fool to believe he didn't cheat just because I didn't have proof.

#31 Jul 30 - 8AM (Reply to #30)

wholeagain

Ugh, Amy

That was my story too. Those horrible parties! He met the founders of Fling/Tryst online, while he was no doubt trolling for whatever else. We had to go do a personal interview with them to make sure we were "cool" enough, and pretty enough, before we'd be granted a spot on their invite list. Might I say, at those parties they usually police the men to make sure *they* behave, but somehow the rules don't apply to how women approach other women. I was pretty aggressively woman-handled a few times, did they ask permission before touching me? No way. Those parties were scary as hell for me. I too drank way too much and just prayed for them to be over, and hoped that no one would take too much of an interest. Never did go to a Tryst party which sounded like it was some seriously hardcore stuff. Anyway, no matter what rules we carefully agreed to beforehand, he invariably broke them. That was the story with our open relationship too. It's like *hello*, I'm giving you more freedom than any man I know has, and you still can't follow the rules? Sick. That was part of the mindf**k about cheating--he could always point to the fact that we had an open relationship and it seemed like that made any line cross-able somehow. How could I get upset about the fact that he didn't use a condom when I was allowing him to go out and have sex with someone else anyway? Didn't I know that was part of the risk of that lifestyle? That messes with your brain. Now I have pretty hard and fast rules. You talk inappropriately to a woman online, you're out. Anything beyond that, you're out so fast you won't know what happened. I know people make mistakes but I'm fresh out of understanding about that--every man I've ever been with has cheated on me and I won't go through that again. Just the way it has to be for me.

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