Is there ever Justice?

I agree with that, petal.

Thank you for that description, it is perfect. It all makes sense in God's world, and I am a human with limited experience and knowledge, so I can't know God's mind. I do seek revelation, where I experience feelings of connectedness and wholeness, and that feeling keeps me coming back. In my darkest moments I asked for justice, but I know that I have faults also, and I ask God for mercy. My God is love, complete absolute love. He doesn't hate or judge, that is what we do as humans. I know for me judging or hating the narc keeps a part of my mind in darkness, and that keeps me blocked to that degree from the presence of love. I have felt strongest not when I avoid darkness consciously but when it feels as if it goes right through me...as if I was transparent...as if darkness passes through me because I am light...hard to explain, cool to experience. Re-living the past is a choice, but one that is hard to give up. We've all met people who are defined by their past, they attach to it and become it. I want to use the past to grow, not as an excuse to hide and become stagnant and bitter. My d and d experience, so hurtful and unexpected kicked my ass big time...obliterated my family, home, financial security, etc. But it is also the symbol of my ascent from that hellish existence. It launched me (without my permission) on a new course, towards love and light, freedom and joy. These events create an opportunity for personal growth, but also the tempting attraction of sinking down to the level of the disordered one's and seeking revenge. Anger, depression, retaliation, revenge, these are the first steps out of hell....Happy, joyous and free are the last. My experience is that No Contact creates room for the light to shine out the darkness...I also believe one person intent on being in the light illuminates many more souls...a lofty enlightened goal indeed. Best of luck campers! ds

I guess I've been the earthly helper of karma who hit the accelerator&had the brakes go out. "The Death of Ivan Ilyich" by Leo Tolstoy (a major Narc) is quite telling. Ivan, the main character, is a Narc, regards his wife as a cow despite the fact she lovingly cares for him, he's disdaining his own offspring... and he's DYING. It's an agonizing story, and foreshadowed Leo's own death, when he D&D'd his whole family (especially his devoted wife)... and of all his surviving children, only Alexandra was at his side when he died. The ex-Psych prof was virulently misogynistic;even in my senior year, his female students thought he treated them condescendingly... for being female. When I first met him, he had his mother&a sister. A year after the final D&D, he had a wife&a daughter... the number of women in his family DOUBLED. He railed against marriage as slavery... a year after the final D&D, he was married (still is,after a decade) Over 4 years, he said nasty things about children, bragging about how his colleagues' children were terrified of him, calling the kids at the local school "snot-nosed urchins";he couldn't stand being compared to children (and YES, I have done that) He'd badmouth his students to me, calling them stupid. And, a year after the final D&D... he became a father. TO TWINS. It's like he got his dosages doubled. I've heard of the Law of Three that if you do good, it comes back to you threefold, and if you do bad, the same-it comes back threefold. In his case, it doubled. He hates women;their number in his family doubled. He hates children;he ended up with twins. Karma is a mathematician!

not all abusers are abused as children. Mine was spoiled rotten by his mother, I suppose you could call that abuse. but he does not deserve my pity. I know people who were severly abused and they did not use this as an excuse to do this to other people.

Soaper girl this was one of the most rational and compassionate posts I have ever seen on here. You speak to the core of what a narcissist is...a case in severity. They DO suffer constantly and relentlessly with their own demons and their own severe, severe lack of self-esteem. Abusers were almost always abused. We know this like we know the sun comes up in the morning. The question as you said, is what can we do about our wanting to caretake them and I would add further, what can we do to prevent our own children from becoming people who lack in self-esteem or become abusive in their own right? Now there's a project.