I beleive its a natural reflex to become questionable or even jealous when your man leaves you for another woman..its never a clean ego state ...i beleive even for the healthiest and most self esteem people..we hurt sometimes and left dazed and confused.
Its a total TKO
We have been nocked silly then on to the new challenger...its our responsibilty to bounce back ..collect our thoughts and leave the ring a winner.
The question is no longer why but how can I win after such a big loss...ask yourself that..you may be shocked by your answer..
"In the fiery pit lays a man with two faces.One is the face of a God and the other a face of the Devil.Beware He lurks your souls.Keep one hand on your heart and the other hand over your eyes. Let him walk pass you not into you.Ghost of love will possess
I guess now I see what the other ladies are talking about in the response of cheating with not there type thread..
You make very clear how the narc didnt tell you all those positive things but others did..
I have one question for you..what can you say about yourself?..what are the positives you can come up with..thats not told by them or the narc...
"In the fiery pit lays a man with two faces.One is the face of a God and the other a face of the Devil.Beware He lurks your souls.Keep one hand on your heart and the other hand over your eyes. Let him walk pass you not into you.Ghost of love will possess
Oh no, don't talk like this. Aw, no one person is better than any other person. Not in this whole universe. That's only the rejection talking. The new girl is just desirable right now, because she's new. She is- as Michele says- the new toaster. A play thing. You know what? When she isn't new anymore, he'll hoover back around to you. Which will be such a shame for him. Because by then, you'll already have his number down pat, and won't give him a second thought! Humpft!
I am so sorry you are having a hard time tonight...yea, I think the moon is working on us some cause I was doing okay and I'm back to wanting to spit nails...well not so bad but had an emotional day...I feel a little edgy...but I have some more time under my belt...I'll feel what I feel the heck with it...AND you know, I think a lot has to be said, not just for you but for all of us.
I really feel that we really need to just say the heck with it and feel what we need to feel whatever it is.
There is so much shame attached to negative feelings. I can only speak for myself, but for me, I think throughout my life, and in a way this was a blessing what has happened because I've learned how to be true to me and let it all hang out...to accept me for me warts and all. If I wanna be pissy or should I say if I feel pissy then pissy you're gonna get until I don't feel like being pissy, if I wanna be angry, or sad or whatever I'm gonna be it until I don't wanna be it and I don't care what you think or feel cause it's about ME now. I mean that in my personal life of course, not on the board...ahem...BUT I think that we have to give ourselves permission to FEEL...ALL of it. Every emotion we have is a valid, legitimate emotion.
Earlier today, I posted an article about how society as a whole has kinda molded us into co-dependence. Sickofit and I have differing views, but I think her perspective is just as legitimate - I think some may in fact have co-dependence issues, and I think for others we may not be co-dependent, but we've been molded to take on co-dependent behaviors by society. I will try to find that article again and post it here in an edit when I'm done...it should be at the bottom of this post...
Beamoflight, I know you read the article by Sandra Brown...I did too and it really is the truth. Look, the man is disordered and that is something that has to be accepted. I don't mean to sound like this is one great big man hating witch hunt and we're out to castigate and emascualte these men and just think so badly of them...but in this case my dear, we are victims of disordered men...that's why we're all sittin here in the states were in...in diffeent stages but united by the pain and damage these men have caused as a result of thieir disorder.
The thing is beam, we can't afford to wear the rose colored glasses anymore, we can't continue to brainwash ourselves with magical thinking and fantasy. It is painful to know that these men can just detach and walk off and not give us a second thought - but THE REALITY IS THE DISORDER NEVER ALLOWED THEM TO ATTACH IN THE FIRST PLACE. That IS the reality.
They pretended, they faked it and it is part of the disorder. If it brings you peace...hate the disorder and not him but you have to stay away, he is harmful and he is dangerous...this relationship already has your self esteem in the toilet and you know beam...I saw your writing the other day, you were pretty cheerful...very much in your writing I saw a "beam of light" but this man will only try to dim your light...and the LIE is that all these things your thinking are detrimental and destructive to the beauty that exists within you.
WE are all beautiful in our own way, we all have special gifts, it is our soul that matters darling, our spirit and I have yet to encounter one "ugly" spirit anywhere on this board...
Earlier today I was pissy...and I put the other woman through the mud, called the poor thing a beached whale...and you know - I know that's not right but it's what I had to do to feel good. But you know, she's a victim too, I just don't feel like embracing it right now and you ladies are my sisters and I'ma let it hang out sometimes, I'm right in here with you in recovery...BUT beam, we have these moments...we have these ups and downs...
Ride the wave beam, get through the night and feel what you need to feel. Let it all hang out....GET IT OUT....that is what is sooooooo important in all of this...you don't have to be rosy if you don't want to be...you can say the most atrocious nastiest things...about him and HER if you like...this is the place to let it out. This is your support, this is your anchor...stick to the board Beam and let it out.
It's gonna take time, and it is a process...I'm telling you I was here 24/7 in the beginning...this is where you take that ginormous emotional crap...because not doing it is damaging...this was not a normal break-up this was a sick relationship and our minds have been scrambled like an egg.
Heck, do a search on my posts dear...NUTS in the beginning I tell you...some of them...so many stages, so many feelings...you are not alone and you are not crazy but we are all here for you dear...
AND you are so much more than what you're thinking about yourself right now...I felt an energy from your writing...AND no, I'm not psychic but you just get feelings sometimes and I kinda sense a bubblyniess about you?
Get a good night's rest if you can and check in at least daily...if you have nothing to say, just read...but beamoflight, I promise you - you will get through this.
Hope I see you tomorrow...
Gonna go get that article now and try to post it on the bottom.
Sweet dreams...and like I said, no need to front or be the "strong" girl, or sweep the crap under the rug...the only way to heal is to let all the nasties out.
Hugs!
Here's the Article CORRECTION: Sick of It Found it...I read it but I thought it was quite good.
http://www.joy2meu.com/condition_codependency.html
this was great. wow, thank you. YOU get it. I dont yet ..lol.. but YOU DO! I forget who told me I dont get it-- I said i did get it-- honestly, they were right. I dont get it all yet.
I am going to look up your old posts.
When does it pass-- the whole "but I know deep down he's different, I just know it" pass?
The whole "but I know, if I see him this time it will be different" pass-- because let's face it-- he has not changed in the last 3 years why would he change now.
When does the common sense kick in?????
Michelle luv ya because your so real..no silicone non of that fake shit..you are the real deal..that narc lost a great one..his loss
"In the fiery pit lays a man with two faces.One is the face of a God and the other a face of the Devil.Beware He lurks your souls.Keep one hand on your heart and the other hand over your eyes. Let him walk pass you not into you.Ghost of love will possess
Awesome post. You uplifted many not just Beam. Thank you for sharing your wisdom. I would be thrilled t o develop half your depth and understanding of this mess, this disorder, the overwhelming task of rebuilding self-esteem and a decent life - I feel much the same as Beam- how could he spend 10 years with me and after just a few months being doing things with new GF that I had always wanted him to do with me. But I am not jealous because I know too much now and do not think he has changed for someone. Also, it is not my business what he does or who he sees...
You write so well..
Why do we always assume the OW is better than us? Why not turn that thinking around, maybe WE were the woman they truly fantasize about having but KNOW they could never keep, maybe they are just plain secure and comfortable with who they have and know the woman they are with would not abandon them, after all that is one of their biggest fears.
We are we so hard on ourselves, why do we doubt our worth and value so much? In my two month of NC do you know it STILL eats at me that he chose her over me? That he remained with her the entire time we had our relationship of 4 years, of course in the beginning I was told their relationship was not good and not going anywhere but you all know that story... bla bla bla Sometimes we may never know exactly why but what is important to remember its never because we were less than their sig other and can we really say, oh gee he must love her more, ya right. He is not with her because he loves her, their relationship is NOT healthy, he is with her because he NEEDS her, and you know what the needs are of a disordered person.
Remove LOVE from this equation and replace it with the primal needs of these disordered individuals, they never loved us and they certainly will never love the person they are with so in retrospect are either one of us getting a better deal, or the best of them? It bothered me too and I still struggle with wondering what the hell did she have that I didnt? If the truth be known, NOT A DAMN THING. Do you know what she has that I dont have? SHE HAS HIM and with that I know I am better off x0x0x0
Have you asked yourself what makes HIM undeserving of YOU? Or why YOU are no longer with him? Or why this relationship is not good enough for YOU? Or why YOU are so much better than this relationship? Or how YOU are smart enough to no longer put up with his BS? Or how YOU are strong enough to draw a line and not allow him the privilege of being with YOU an extra day?
All pretty much different ways of asking the same thing. But as much as I struggle with my own recovery, posts like these makes me sad to see how a sick person caused us to essentially flip our perspectives so that literally everything revolves around him. as if HE is the point of reference, and you are just the variable factor.
Remember all of the ways HE was not good enough for YOU.
I am really sorry you are going through a tough day. Stay strong. Sending you a big hug.
Sandra Brown/The Other Woman, Now He's Happy With Her
Suggested by: Staying Strong 78 *Thank u
The Other Woman - Now He's Happy... with HER!
by Sandra Brown, MA
Nothing cranks a woman up more than going thru a drama-filled ending of her dysfunctional, pathological, abusive, addicted and/or sick relationship ONLY to find he rapidly moved on and now seems 'so happy.' Women tend to conclude it must have been 'her' and if he can be happy with someone else and not her, well then... it was some shortcoming in her and she needs to study up to figure out just what 'went wrong.'
Ladies, ladies, ladies... by now you have been reading enough to be able to 'chant' the ABC's of Pathology I have been teaching you
Pathology Is The Inability To:
�change and sustain a change
�grow to any emotional depth and
�develop meaningful insight about one's own behavior and how it effects others.
THE BEST PREDICTOR OF FUTURE BEHAVIOR IS PAST BEHAVIOR when it comes to a pathological.
So what you have to ask yourself is how were his previous relationships? I don't mean what he TOLD you they were (all her fault, she was a psycho, sleaze, stalker or whack job) but what REALLLLYYY happened in them. If you developed a Relationship Time Line and wrote out all his relationships from his teen years forward AND the'quality' of them and why they ended, what would you conclude? How successful IS this man in maintaining healthy relationships?
Yup... that's what I thought.
How was his relationship with you? No, I'm not talking about the honeymoon cycle when both of you are living off of endorphins. I'm talking about the guts of the thing... the meat and bones of it. So, he has a history of his own 'Trail of Tears' -- a path littered with the lives of wounded women and children? Your relationship has left you as one more statistic of his pathological heart breaks.
Now, there's 'HER' -- appearing all happy, snuggly and 'in love'! You see her as getting all the good parts of him you always loved and NONE OF THE BAD parts! After all, the reason you left him was all that BAD STUFF! Doesn't it make you want to call her up and tell her what's just around the corner in the relationship? Doesn't it make you want to curl up in a fetal position and cry that he has 'found happiness in the arms of another?' Doesn't it make you sick in the pit of your stomach or consume you with intrusive and obsessive thoughts about how wonderfully 'in love' he is?
STOP THE DRAMA!
Repeat after me:
"Pathology is the inability to change"
"the best predictor of HIS future behavior is his past behavior"
So just what does THAT mean? There are honeymoon phases of every relationship. Lovers live on the high of the 'falling in love stage.' We already know that pathologicals don't 'technically' fall in love but they do hang around and experience some level of attachment. But, YOU experienced the whole endorphin falling in love sensation. Well, so is SHE!
How long did yours last? A few weeks, months or maybe a year or two of ok-ness? What happened next? Oh yeah, you found out his lies or noticed his inconsistency, or asked him to work, or caught him cheating... once you confronted him then you got the narcissistic rage, then maybe the aloofness, or maybe he even packed up and left.
Guess what's gonna happen AGAIN? There will be the honeymoon for her, then she will notice his lies, inconsistency, ask him to work or catch him cheating, then she'll eventually confront him (or live forever with the miserable-ness of knowing what he's doing and not having the ovaries to confront him) and then he'll rage, punish her, reject her, ignore her and/or leave.
~VIOLA~ she is now on his 'Stepford Wives List of Rejects'. She's one more tear on his 'Trail of Tears.' You haven't seen behind their closed doors to know what SHE's dealing with... he hasn't changed -- he's hardwired so she's going to be dealing with the same thing you did. It's just a matter of WHEN.
If I were a gambling girl, I'd put my money every stinking time on the consistency of pathology and his inability to ever change in ANY relationship -- the previous one, yours, or the future ones. She's not getting the best of ANYTHING. She's you. And in a short time, she'll be another statistic. If pathology doesn't change, this relationship is wired for destruction.There are NO happy endings in relationships with pathologicals.There are no pumpkin drawn carriages, no sweet little house with three children... scratch that record! Stop attributing normal characteristics to a profoundly abnormal person.
Women spend all their precious emotional energy on obsessing about the quality of his relationship with the next victim instead of working on themselves -- using that energy for their own healing. They live in a fantasy world where they are deprived of this wonderful relationship and he is off living the life of a normal person.This fantasy does not end with "And they lived happily ever after."
Remember the last two weeks newsletters when I wrote that positive memories stay up front and are easily accessed and bad memories are put in the back and harder to access? This is the same thing... you put the positive fantasy thoughts of him being happy with someone up front and totally forgethow this horror flick is going to end.
Take a deep breath and snap back to reality... she hasn't got anything you haven't already gotten from him -- MISERY. If she doesn't have it right now, she will have it shortly.
Once you really 'get it' about the permanence of pathology you'll understand that his ability to be different in the relationship doesn't exist. If he was capable, he would have done the changing with you. But he didn't -- and he won't. Whatever exists right now is that honeymoon cycle until she realizes what he is and ISN'T -- and what he can NEVER be. Don't bother picking up the phone and telling her what he is and isn't. Just worry about your own recovery ... from this moment on, it's all about you! .
you have done some great posts, but this is one is your BEST, I understand all you have been saying, being on this board for so long, but you brought it all to a head. Mine did not leave me for another women, he just left to be by himself, realizing I think to some extent that he is a sick man, emotionally, so I never dealt with the 'other woman,' but reading what you said about examining his past relationships with women, I was number 5, was still an eyeopener for me and the realization it was never about me, but him and his inability to maintain a normal, loving, intimate, relationship with a woman, ANY woman, and I owed it ll to his Narc mother and the horrible number she did on him for life. I remember reading some time ago in the throngs of getting over him, that a boy toddler must make the break from his mother,by age 5 years old and how crucial it is for the father to help the boy make the break, it never happened for my narc.
Thank you.
I am reading all the comments from women after the artical and even as I read them all-- I still wonder if she is his exception.
Ahhh, "and in the light of the morning sun--this to shall pass."
I need to get my head back on straight and be thankful for what I have. Just look at those poor people in Japan.
I seriously need a reality check. I need to wake the f-up.
Thank you michele115 for posting it-- I hope it sinks in, gnight.
:)
I'm so sorry ur having a rough night:(
There is an article by Sandra Brown, called "the other woman: now he's happy with her?"
( i'd post the link but I'm not sure how the rules work with that, but its easy to google)
I found it VERY helpful and maybe you will to:)
Take care
xoxo
I am reading it. yes, it is helping.
Honestly, I still have the feeling that with "her" he'll be different and love her and treat her the way I have always wanted him to love and treat me.
I hope tomorrow is better. I'm going to go to sleep.
Gnight all.
I'm hear to tell you, and hopefully relieve you, that I was the other woman who got tons of flowers, showered with gifts, almost the ring, paraded on his arm...only to be discarded over and over again for a plain younger person that he had no plans to ever marry and hid her from friends.
Truth is, once we get upset and are on to them and they know it, they go back again to the OW. They are such wimps and pu**ys that they cannot be alone for 5 minutes. They would die. So at this point, they sprint into survival mode and get off on the back and forth drama, like we are ping pong balls in their sick little game.
Trust me, they end up treating all of us in the exact same saddist way.
why is that? Why is it that they run to the OW? That's what I dont get.
I know-- I have to go back to saying this over and over
"HE IS MENTALLY ILL"
"HE IS SICK-- HE HAS A SICKNESS-- HE IS NOT HEALTHY-- HE IS NUTS-- HE IS CRAZY--HE IS MENTALLY ILL"
I do hope it kicks in 100% one of these days. I wax and wain from good days to confused ones-- like today.
Thank you.
Sorry all, I KNOW the answer to these questions... it's just I came across some stuff from him. some old emails I had printed out while cleaning out my closet.
It's like falling down on your newly scabbed up knee and re-injuring it all over again.
I feel all raw.
God, I'm sorry to say this-- I wont do it because I'll feel stupid-- but damn, I just want to send him an email and say hi. I SERIOUSLY feel like he is missing me too. Is this in my head??? Yes, it is-- great, I'm f_ing nuts. I am imagining things-- frightening, it's actually frightening. I am sitting here on my computer saying to myself "Gee, Beam, maybe he misses you too, I bet he'd be happy to get an email from you"
Thank GOD I am so proud-- or I might send one off.
Please somebody knock common sense back into me. I think it's the full moon.
I am a Cancer after all ..lol..
I go through the SAME heartbreak as you and I SWEAR I "feel" him missing me too.
But the truth is, HE would be emailing us if they did miss us. A real man would. They wouldn't have done what they did if they knew they'd be making a huge mistake. They discarded us and part of us knows he will be back and we are willing to wait it out, again.
That is SO disgusting that the thought creeps into my head! And it sounds like it does with you too.
We almost are envious because our ex Ns are putting on the charm for them now, but it is TEMPORARY. They'll get discarded too. But the challenge is for us to NEVER have any contact with them again, because more often than not, they'll be back. They are seriously disturbed human beings. Think of them as the monsters they are! They aren't real! They are dangerous people repeating and injecting us with their toxic waste.
I know its hard, trust me!
Be strong! Don't contact him! If you contact him, you might as well be saying, "go ahead and shit all over me, again" and I'll still give you my attention. Trust me your silence is the very best course of action. By not contacting him, you are protecting yourself.
Real quick jumping in to correct a thought...no darlin just cause they email don't mean they miss you...just means they're hoovering coming back see if there are any more drops left...
That's the long and the short of it.
I'm reading down the thread, I'd like to try to talk to Beamoflight some...but I note she's off to the land of nod...
Hugs!!
Early in my recovery I wrote a post...Breaking Up With a Narcissist is not easy task or something like that...
In it I make the analogy about how we don't argue certain truths like 1+1 equals two...and I use an analogy about a lion about how we know the nature of a lion and if a human gets mauled we don't question "Why" the lion does it because we accept it's the nature of the lion.
It's the same thing here...there are certain facts presented to us about the disorder and one of those facts is these individuals do not and cannot attach...it is illusion.
Once one can accept that fact with the same acceptance one accepts other "everyday" facts...the earth is round, boats don't fall off the edge of the earth...it becomes easier to get rid of the magical thinking...the fantasy...
I know it is hard...I do...but this is what it is...
I wont contact him. You're so right.
but yes, I do think he "feels" me. I think he misses me too. I just think I am such a source of narc injury (as I force him to look in a mirror and he hates me for it).
I always tell him that I love him but he is a narcissist and if he would just let his vunerable side out-- that I would help him, never hurt him and I would protect him.
I tell him all the time if he had nothing I would be his friend anyway.
that all I ever need from him is a smile and to just treat me as I treat him.
As you can imagine-- he totally stays FAR away from me.
But I still feel like every now and then, like tonight-- as I am thinking of him so hard and so much and I cant shake it-- I think that maybe he is doing the same about me.
Frightening, it's actually frightening how my brain thinks.
FRIGHTENING. I am this dislusonal. They actually make you crazy too if you let them.
Gnight.
:)
I do this too! I have really bad days EXACTLY like you are having. But they seem to pass! I promise this will pass in a day or so. And with each time it comes back, its not as strong as it was before. Xoxo!!!
The Narc I dealt with was my teacher. I was kind to him, patient towards him, I'd tell him I wasn't after him for his $$$, that I loved him unconditionally-I even told him I cared about him, even if he didn't love me in a romantic way.
"That I would help him, never hurt him&I would protect him"-I was ALWAYS reassuring the ex-Psych professor of that. Yet I think he saw me as his Judas, willing to mock him in the senior skit, after declaring love to him (even for a NORMAL person without a personality disorder, that's a blow)
"To treat me as I treat him"-I think we're taught "if you want a friend, be a friend." I was a friend to the ex-P. I treated him the way I'd want to be treated. I listened to him. I'd ask him how he was doing. Yet he treated me the exact opposite-contemptuously, mocking me behind my back.
"I am a source of Narc injury"-I think I did that when I broke NC in '09. I remember how the ex-P raged at me because I was volunteering at a local elementary school. He saw those "snot-nosed urchins" (his term) as his rivals. He saw kids as competition. A major theme over the 4 years was how much he *HATED* kids. He also hated being mocked. He'd run away from it. So, when I broke NC, I made some jabs comparing him with my nephew (their fathers have the same name, went to Harvard, are in the Bay State)-and basically saying HE had been replaced. That a tantrum-throwing baby was BETTER than him.
I was also the one who left NM without saying goodbye. I did NOT contact him about my departure. I didn't tell anyone.
Not only was I holding up the mirror to him, but I was pointing and laughing at him. A toddler acting like a toddler is fine. They're self-absorbed&throw tantrums. It's not so pleasant when a middle-aged tenured professor acts that way.
I beleive its a natural
"In the fiery pit lays a man with two faces.One is the face of a God and the other a face of the Devil.Beware He lurks your souls.Keep one hand on your heart and the other hand over your eyes. Let him walk pass you not into you.Ghost of love will possess
I guess now I see what the
"In the fiery pit lays a man with two faces.One is the face of a God and the other a face of the Devil.Beware He lurks your souls.Keep one hand on your heart and the other hand over your eyes. Let him walk pass you not into you.Ghost of love will possess
Beam
Hey Beam...
this was great. wow, thank
Michelle luv ya because your
"In the fiery pit lays a man with two faces.One is the face of a God and the other a face of the Devil.Beware He lurks your souls.Keep one hand on your heart and the other hand over your eyes. Let him walk pass you not into you.Ghost of love will possess
michele115
something else to consider
neverlookback
Have you asked yourself what
Sandra Brown/The Other Woman, Now He's Happy With Her
Michelle
AWESOME Michele115
(((TLSM))))
Thank you. I am reading all
I'm so sorry ur having a
I am reading it. yes, it is
Makes no difference
why is that? Why is it that
It's just been one of those days
I go through the SAME
TSLM
YES! Hoovering!!! But in our
TLSM
Michele115
I wont contact him. You're so
I do this too! I have really
Being a source of Narc injury