Begging for Scraps!

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#1 Sep 29 - 3PM

Briseis

Begging for Scraps!

Happy's post really got me thinking (thank you Happy for posting your dilemma . . . you never know how much it helps others to think about themselves).

She describes a weekend with her Narc where she works her butt off to make a beautiful couple of days, a nice environment with home cooked meals and pleasing atmosphere. She then describes her Narc as coming over and bitching about how dirty her place is, and probably about everything else.

She says she knows that he will come over this weekend and be abusive and humiliating to her, but she is willing to put up with all that anyway to get . . . scraps.

WTF???

What happened to us? That we go so low as to be willing to settle for SCRAPS of attention? That we are GRATEFUL for the Narc's presence, even if he treats us like shit the whole time he's there, except for maybe sleeping with us (and probably bitching about that too LOL!!).

We get so deep down the rabbit hole in these relationships we lose track of what is actually happening.

If we saw another person going through this, we'd be horrified and wonder what was WRONG with them, that they'd debase themselves like this.

Yet, there I was, doing it for seven years. And all the while, not aware of what I was doing, at all. I knew I was humiliated and very unhappy.

It's like I couldn't take a step or two back and SEE what I was doing to debase and humiliate myself. I just wanted those scraps. They were "something" in a great wasteland of abuse and depression and "nothing".

I forgot that there was more, much more. More to life than what was in front of me. Other people seemed to have it, why not me?

I've heard folks here admit they really don't believe they deserve any more. Why not? What makes you so AWFUL that you don't deserve to be treated with a minimum of respect?

What makes us so hungry we will settle for these scraps and then be grateful for them?

That's a big question. Does anyone else here feel that way? That they don't deserve to be treated better? That maybe "scraps" are all you're gonna get anyway? That your "karma" is to just get scraps? That you are doomed to just settle for scraps?

#2 Oct 2 - 11AM

Lisa E. Scott

Briseis

This is an excellent post! Thank you for making us stop, take pause and think about these things. You rock.

#3 Oct 1 - 12PM

ACgirl

This is an excellent post

This is an excellent post and thread. There are so many awesome women on this site, and we have accepted scraps. That is what I finally woke up to today and even wrote a post about it. It FINALLY hit me. Duh. I think I got caught up in the game more of being rejected and wondering why? He always cheated on me with women who had far, far less to offer. And so then began the mind f*#K on what was wrong with me? I am in a difficult profession, one where you always have to fight to get to the top and stay at the top. I have been told that I am a knock out, yet when I look in the mirror, all I see are flaws. My friends all think that I have accomplished so much so far in my life, yet when I was married my exH would say...."You haven't REALLY made it yet", etc. I am so insecure as a result. The thing that I have learned today is that, in the end, it is ONLY me who will fight for ME. We must respect ourselves and believe in ourselves. Right now, when I think of all I have to offer this stupid Narc and he treats me like I'm a bag of fries at McDonalds and then runs off with these bimbos, I realize that I have done this to myself by making him think he can come back for another fry in my bag. I will tell you now, that I am done. He will NEVER find another woman like me. Never. Go ahead Ladies, think about your life and who you are and how special you are. Enjoy that feeling. I just did. I have accomplished a great deal, I feel good about myself physically for the first time. I don't need ANYTHING from a man except love. I have provided it all for myself over the years. And they will NEVER find women like you great ladies on this site. If my Narc thinks these bimbos are so special, then bully for him. Then I say to him....Go to town jerk face, go to town because I am mad as hell I am not going to take it anymore. No more mind f*#k. I am done!! Ahhhhh. Feels good. Take a moment ladies, and think about yourself and who you are. You are GREAT women. Enjoy the day thinking about that!! LOVE YOU!! xoxo ACgirl

#4 Oct 1 - 10AM

helldweller

Showers

This guy would NOT take a shower with me. The cleanest man on the face of the earth, but do you think he would get in the shower after having sex? Not if it was with me! Never in four years. I would say, can we take a shower tonight when we're together/? and he'd say, "Yes, I'd love that" but when it came time he wouldn't do it. Would. not. do. it.

#5 Oct 1 - 10AM

helldweller

Begging for mercy

Yes, in the end, they won't even give us mercy. I literally begged him for mercy. As in, "Please, Donnie, please I am begging you please have mercy and tell me you don't love me anymore, that it's not going to happen. Please, I'm so sick, I am so unhappy, I can't function, i can't take care of the girls I'm such a wreck. Please, honey, please tell me the truth." And his response was "You are the meanest, nastiest person I have ever met."

#6 Oct 1 - 11AM (Reply to #34)

shortway

Same here..I bascially told

Same here..I bascially told him that I was suffering,I was crying,...he said"noone cares"....

#7 Oct 1 - 10AM (Reply to #33)

Susan32

Being a "danger to children"

The ex-P falsely accused me of being a "danger to children" once I had gone NC on him (he didn't have my phone number or home address-I was in the same city, yet he didn't know where I lived) and was in a teacher education program. Yet I was the student he had emotionally abused, taken advantage of, betrayed. I was the one he had violated... yet he had the audacity to accuse me of being "dangerous to children" (luckily, I got a teaching job in another state) I had to BEG the ex-Psychopath professor for mercy in how he'd treat me after I lost my grandfather and my pastor friend to cancer. I had suffered personal losses, and he was merciless. Ns/Ps WANT us to be begging for mercy... that's why it's so sick. A normal person is understanding when another has suffered a personal loss. But when I was grieving my paternal grandfather, the ex-P was totally merciless.

#8 Oct 1 - 2AM

Susan32

Begging for decency, respect, to be heard...

We find ourselves begging for scraps because we're not even receiving the basic decency, respect, and honesty that we usually assume we'll get from our fellow human beings. An underlying assumption is that for the most part, people treat each other respectfully. In the end, Ns/Ps leave us begging for mercy, and they won't even give that. Whenever I asked to be treated honestly, decently, the ex-Psychopath professor acted as if I were demanding his head on a plate. I felt incredibly unappreciated. This was in a teacher/student relationship, and in some ways, one could say it's worse than between spouses, because HE was the one in the position of authority. My ex-N boss didn't leave me feeling so empty,rejected&humiliated. Sure, I endured minor romantic rejections in high school, but those were little scrapes&bruises compared to the annihilation of the D&D. If I meant so little to him, if I was literally NOTHING to him, why did he put so much effort into hurting me, especially when I had gone through great personal losses? Why did he work so hard to make me cry? Why did he want to destroy me? What did I ever do to him-except respect him, encourage him, and yes, love him? I was a student, and he was worse than the bullies of middle/high school. They didn't FEIGN friendship, compassion, etc. If I flaunted my happiness to hurt him purposefully, believe me, I'd have ZERO remorse. He showed no mercy to me. I still can't believe the ex-P is still teaching. He got tenure 3 years after the D&D. He once said he was destroying himself... well, can I lend a hand?

#9 Sep 29 - 10PM

NancyM

Great thread

I have been using the carrot and the stick analogy. They dangle the carrot to show you what you can have if you are an obedient, well behaved girl. Once they know that you have fallen for the promise of a carrot, they are in the box seat. But as soon as you make a grab for that said carrot, whack, you get belted with the stick. Oh the carrot is always there, YOU just can't have it.

Nevergoback

#10 Sep 30 - 8PM (Reply to #30)

shortway

Yep.."YOU" just can't have

Yep.."YOU" just can't have it "ANYMORe" is right..because you don;t do as I say,you are below me,you are no behaving..get back in place....Yeah my place is without you...sucka!

#11 Sep 29 - 11PM (Reply to #29)

Susan32

Alice in Wonderland

Isn't it like that part of "Alice in Wonderland" when Alice is promised a treat, but she can only get it tomorrow? The ex-P professor always wanted me to feel unworthy. What a great way of handling the teacher/student relationship, Beret Boy... make your students feel constantly unworthy of the carrot of respect... The irony is that the ex-P's real name is Hebrew for "dog" or "rabid dog." He reminds me of those spoiled toy dogs who need a little kick every once in awhile because they're licking themselves too much and it sounds gross (believe me, I know)

#12 Sep 29 - 5PM

kiwi10

i have a song i listened to

that reminded me of him... since we are throwing a pitty party :) Love will abide, take things in stride Sounds like good advice but there's no one at my side And time washes clean love's wounds unseen That's what someone told me but I don't know what it means. Cause I've done everything I know to try and make you mine And I think I'm gonna love you for a long long time Caught in my fears Blinking back the tears I can't say you hurt me when you never let me near And I never drew one response from you All the while you fell all over girls you never knew Cause I've done everything I know to try and make you mine And I think it's gonna hurt me for a long long time Wait for the day You'll go away Knowing that you warned me of the price I'd have to pay And life's full of flaws Who knows the cause? Living in the memory of a love that never was Cause I've done everything I know to try and change your mind and I think I'm gonna miss you for a long long time Cause I've done everything I know to try and make you mine And I think I'm gonna love you for a long long time.

#13 Sep 30 - 2PM (Reply to #26)

Briseis

So this song is about how

So this song is about how much you loved him . . . for throwing you scraps? This is a beautiful love-lost song, but it's a song for someone who you screwed up and lost, not for someone you ESCAPED WITH YOUR LIFE from. Not someone who beat you with a belt and humiliated you and dumped you like a bag of garbage.

#14 Sep 30 - 6PM (Reply to #27)

kiwi10

briesis

......true....

#15 Sep 29 - 5PM

tynk3377

the song I sent my N

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En77yKCfVzk and of course the lyrics... Are my lips unkissable? Are my eyes unlookable? Is my skin untouchable? Am I unlovable? Cynical, jaded, faithless, disappointed, disillusioned, used If I could take back all my sweat, my tears, my sex, my joy I would My time, my love, my effort, passion, dedication In case of mistaken identity I gave these things to you If I sound angry, bitter, sad, infatuated, it's the truth Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, just a few Stages of acceptance that it's really over It's just so complicated and I'm stupid for believing in you You make me feel like my father never loved me You make me feel like the act of love is empty Am I so unlovable? Is my skin untouchable? Do I remind you of a part of you that you don't like? I had your back, I held you up, I told you you were good enough It was not reciprocated, you kept affection and yourself apart You fed your love to me like crumbs to pigeons in the park Sometimes I think you're satisfied to see me begging like a dog I wasn't armoured, you were king, I gave my everything Because sometimes you showed me just a hint of you and then For just a moment I romanticised the notion I can take away the torment, I can love you like they never did You make me feel like my father never loved me (you never loved me) You make me feel like the act of love is empty (I felt so empty) Am I so unlovable? Is my skin untouchable? Do I remind you of a part of you that you don't like? You make me feel like my mother, she abandoned me (you abandoned me) You make me feel like the act of love is empty (I felt so empty) Am I so unlovable? Is my heart unbreakable? Do I remind you of a part of you that you despise? Are my lips unkissable? Are my eyes unlookable? Is my sex undoable? Am I unlovable? Are my words unlistenable? Are my hands untouchable? Am I undesirable? Am I unlovable? You make me feel like my father never loved me You make me feel like the act of love is empty Am I so unlovable? Is my skin untouchable? Do I remind you of a part of you that you don't like? You make me feel like my father never loved me (you never loved me) You make me feel like the act of love is empty (I felt so empty) Am I so unlovable? Is my skin untouchable? Do I remind you of a part of you that you don't like? You make me feel like my mother, she abandoned me (you abandoned me) You make me feel like the act of love is empty (I felt so empty) Am I so unlovable? Is my heart unbreakable? Do I remind you of a part of you that you despise? You make me feel like my father never loved me (you never loved me) You make me feel like my mother, she abandoned me (you abandoned me) You make me feel like my father never loved me (you never loved me) You make me feel like my mother, she abandoned me (you abandoned me) to which he responded... ouch what a douche

#16 Sep 29 - 5PM (Reply to #23)

kiwi10

did you write this? wow. i

did you write this? wow. i wish i cold send this to mine... he would never get it though. he wouldn't say 'ouch'. he would hit 'delete' lol so.... true....

#17 Sep 29 - 6PM (Reply to #24)

tynk3377

no Fierflie

I didnt... its by Darren Hayes, he used to be the lead singer in Savage Garden, but he's solo now. the link should work if you click on it you can see the video... excellent song, I listened to it over and over...

#18 Sep 29 - 5PM

hooklineandsinker

I remember being so angry

I remember being so angry about this. I was driving a bunch of women to my best friend's hen weekend (translation for our US sisters: her bachelorette weekend) which was to take place about 2.5 hours outside of my city (in the pub owned by the parents of the woman he ended up dumping me for, god I get so sickened even typing that, even now - I want to THUMP her so badly). They were all married with kids and the talk turned to sex. Some of them were laughing about having in the past been late to meet up for drinks or whatever with the girl who was getting married, because they had had a quickie with their husbands in the shower or wherever, which had caused them to run late that particular evening. They all had stories like that. The thrust of the conversation was that the bride was a really cool girl (which she is) who would laugh about their reason for being late and never get annoyed about the lateness. But I was sitting there in the driver's seat, listening to all this and thinking to myself: "why does MY boyfriend never want a quickie in the shower? Why has he not even wanted to TOUCH me for the past month? WTF???" I was just sitting there seething with anger and grief.

#19 Sep 29 - 8PM (Reply to #21)

Happy1

what happens to them?

Mine has been the same way. He hasn't wanted sex for the past month and a half which definitely irritated me and caused fights. What happens to them? I don't get it.

#20 Sep 29 - 4PM

imabloke

A good post...

Yes i does make me think... and i wonder about the hope that just perhaps one day she'll have a 'aha' moment and it will be all clear how badly she has treated every man in her life. But its a pipe dream... if i had any sort of relationship with her ever again i would be in for a fall.. a curtain call... That why NC is so important... the longer i'm in NC - the stronger i will be when i meet her next, because i know i will at some point. I'm having CBT at the mo and i'm trying to find out why i seem to go for these type of women. Perhaps there's a need in me - i don't know.. but my ex had some sort of hold over me.. and what we are wishing for is that loving person we fell in love with. We have to assure ourselfs that aint gonna happen again. Just my pennies worth..

#21 Sep 29 - 4PM

shortway

OMG ...I'm the frog...has

OMG ...I'm the frog...has anyone else been in a frozen state where they are just paralyzed waiting for the pain to subside.I've started the thawing out process..but I was like frozine like the frog!

#22 Sep 29 - 3PM

janine

Scraps from the N

If anyone truly feels that all she/he deserves are scraps, it would be time to get into therapy fast. It would surely ruin one's life otherwise. No way did I ever feel this way. But then I was not with my guy for love and care but adventures and sex. I got plenty of either, no complaints. The scraps I kept getting were the emotional things N's are so bad at : kindness, the genuine variety as opposed to the one on display / interest in other people / honesty. For a while it upset me, until I realized than no one can give you what he does not have. In that case feelings for other people. So I no longer took it personally, or I could not have stayed for 11 years. Mind you, he was my lover but not my partner. I've been wondering though reading here how some of you put up with so much worse living with very, very bad guys. How could it ever be "karma" when we should all live with love, hope and faith?

#23 Oct 1 - 12AM (Reply to #15)

almostlydia

Janine

I guess that is the million dollar question that brought most of us here. I have to wonder why anyone would waste 11 yrs on an emotionally absent man who was feeding you a lot of fake shit. For the sex? Glad yours was so satisfying. Most of us would say the sex was hardly that with a man who had no ability to feel anything, who could expect intimacy. And with a man who is all about HIM who could even expect to get anything much at all. But maybe YOU are the OW that I have wondered about so much who would spend, as many of his did, years of giving, giving, giving, and getting nothing but the opportunity of giving him his BJ 3 times a week and a good banging but never even be taken to lunch. All the while he was taking me on vacations, and to all of his real life functions. Sending you out the door when I might be showing up. Sneaking you around me, the one he was planning to marry. The one who said she was just using him, but came crying to me when things went sour again. You can ask that question to a whole lot of battered wives who I am quite sure knew about love, hope, and faith at some point in their lives. I guess I would have to wonder more about you, because I know why the rest of us are here and exactly how we got here. And I know it has nothing to do with any loss of understanding love, faith or hope. almostlydia

almostlydia

#24 Oct 1 - 3PM (Reply to #17)

Briseis

The Other Woman (in an affair)

Major eeeeek. When I think about it, the OW has a slightly different "flavor" so to speak. She knows the man is married, and being dishonest with his wife, and a general shit. She is doing something that the wife would be very hurt by. You can't put frosting on a pile of dog crap and call it a cupcake :( This is a different sort of OW than the OW who succeeds you after the Narc dumps you. Well, a little bit different. The thing is, we are all victims of a Narc, so we're all sort of "sisters under the skin". And yep! We have screwed each other over, by being the OW in an affair. In reality we're all "victims" in the same way. Calling the OW a whore and a gloating bitch and all that . . . it gets me because the OW is another victim of the Narc. Does she deserve what she gets MORE than we deserved what WE got? That's where I'm just not sure. I don't have a real firm opinion here, other than the FACT that the OW is, beneath it all, no different than the rest of us legitimate wives. Yes, she's a home wrecker, she's participating in a thing that our society looks down upon, but she suffers THE SAME WAY as the legitimate wife. And then she suffers more realizing that she was participating in a bad thing, which an affair is, no matter how you slice it. I was the OW in a brief affair in my late twenties. I look back now and cannot BELIEVE what I did. The three of us even sat down and talked for God's sake!! Now I see what an complete and utter CREEP the guy was, and I mean creep. He was never openly cruel to me . . . but what he did to HER was unforgiveable. It hurt her SO much. ANd there I was, helping him hurt her. I feel like total shit even to this day, and you know what? I should. If I could find that woman (if she'd even speak to me) I'd find some way to express my apologies and take responsibility. For what it would be worth, almost twenty years later. So I can speak a bit from both sides, and if I'm judging anyone, I'm judging myself FIRST.

#25 Oct 1 - 12PM (Reply to #16)

janine

almostlydia

Having read your story I understand why you are upset about the OW. Your anger at me, however, is misdirected. I've not been that to my N ex lover. Quite the opposite, he's been my "other man". He knew it from square one and that he could never expect more from me. Later he did get a lot more including support and loyalty, but I was firm about the fact that I would not live with him. I wouldn't have done so even if I was not married, since he is disordered and promiscuous. He regarded me as his girlfriend, and I was his official partner. The one for holidays, real life functions, his family. So you could actually say that I put up with quite a few OW. I did so for two reasons : I'm realistic enough to know you cannot change others, and I could not offer him a life together. He did not, as you assume "feed me a lot of fake shit". There was no need to. By N standards he was rather frank and open with me. Why did I stay for 11 years? Because I have an unusual marriage and must compartmentalize my life. I've been married for 23 years. There is the sort of unconditional love most people only dream about. My husband is a wonderful, kind man and my very best friend. Sadly, though, this has been a sexless marriage for the past 12 years. We agreed to have a life together as well as having partly separate lives. It may be unusual, but it works very well. Sensuality means a lot to me and in fact I used to be quite addicted to sex, then had a support group and therapy. While the addiction is gone, I am still the sensual person I have always been. In the beginning with my ex lover I did not miss the intimacy, later on I did. I stayed with him, because he put up with my marriage grudgingly, whereas "normal" men would not. In my situation you can have short-lived affairs or be the OW to some guy. I will have neither. Being a N my ex will never be able to live with anyone (tried often enough and knows it), so getting lots of care, company, affection and tolerance from me plus all the interests we shared, seemed to work. It did, but at a price that became too much to pay, so I had to leave. Leave him, his grown-up kids I've been so attached to, our friends, the part-time life we had together. I always knew that I had it all and that I'll lose much of it. I'm not complaining.

#26 Sep 29 - 3PM

kiwi10

in my case, i think i felt

in my case, i think i felt like and feel like he was a good, generous, handsom man, and i was really obnoxious and hard to please... and eventually, he got fed up so i had to try hard to make him think i was ok... like i owed him or something. i'm trying to work mt way out of the thinking. its been a rough rough week.

#27 Sep 29 - 5PM (Reply to #10)

ShaynasMommy

me too, fireflie

He somehow made me think that having expectations in the relationship was just wrong...that what I had been taught my whole life by my folks was just wrong, and that I was being high maitenance and a bitch for expecting someone who meant what he said, pulled his own weight, and who would not badmouth me behind my back. I mean c'mon, some basic things here.

#28 Sep 29 - 5PM (Reply to #13)

tynk3377

wow

and once again another woman with my stbxn, hahaha yup, he told me to lower my expectations of him so I wouldnt be so disappointed... what a buttmunch ! and yet their expectations of US where so damn high, even a trampoline wouldnt help us reach that high...(not to mention they changed on a dime too.) buttmunch's....all of them

#29 Sep 29 - 5PM (Reply to #11)

kiwi10

shaynasmommy

:( i hate your x

#30 Sep 29 - 5PM (Reply to #12)

ShaynasMommy

fireflie

That makes (at least)two of us honey!!!!! (((hugs)))

#31 Sep 29 - 3PM

Qing Yuan

Good analogy

I related to that 100%... Its crazy isnt it!!!! Do we really think we are so worthless as to wait for the seedy dirty old carrot to be dangled and then we so destructively chase it like dumb ass donkeys...? We are all such articulate bright woman with ideas and high functioning intellectual capacity and yet we find some wierd messed up 'solace' in some guy who woulnt even spit on us if we were on fire... What indeed is that? I guess though... that its NOT US.. Its the programming, the oxytocin, the mind games, the charming man, flipping into his most charming when he needs too. its all the clever words and game playing and devious techniques to make us want more... Maybe we are just rendered weak and helpless??? I was walking back from dropping my son off today and I nearly stepped on a little slimy frog.. It jumped at first BUT when I inspected it further it stayed quite still, I prodded it a bit, I think it was pregnant, and it froze, I wanted to see it hop or jump but it froze as I poked it and just sat ther rigid until I moved away... It was in survival mode, thats what frogs do.. they stay still and hoe the danger will go away... I wonder if we think if we just keep quiet, keep still, remain in the same position long enough... that the pain will go away... except like the frog if I had been a cat or a another predotor I would have toyed with it, attacked it, eaten it even, and the tactic or remaining still would have proven fatal for the frog..

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