am I allowed to post an email from him?

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#1 Feb 17 - 10PM
reneek
reneek's picture

am I allowed to post an email from him?

I have an email from him that I really really want to share -- I want to get an opinion on it -- it makes me laugh and I want to share, I just want to check the rules. I will take all names out. I want you all see him whine it is hilarious.

Feb 18 - 9PM
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

reneek

Barbara, do you think in my email I sound like a controlling woman for real? What if it is me ? what if I am the crazy one? You're kidding right? You actually BELIEVE what he said about you? He's delusional and trying to make you feel bad. He's an assh*le. Is it you? If it was you & were controlling - WOULD YOU EVEN BE HERE ASKING THAT QUESTION?? No I mean the journal of all conversations with him, exchanges, date times place of visits, his phone calls, texts, emails, etc. Not your PERSONAL stuff. ~~~~~~~~~ The world is a dangerous place, not only because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. - Albert Einstein Visit My Info. Website for Abuse Victims
Feb 18 - 10PM (Reply to #44)
reneek
reneek's picture

will get that all cleaned up this weekend

when she is with him ... I didn't record the phone calls. Need to write all the text messages out , do my journaling and print out all the emails. Do you know if the GAL will want emails from the whole thing or just since the settlement? Do you think it would be good to have my therapist talk to the GAL-- after all he was the one who figures out I was dealing with a Narc ... Thanks -- yeah, I actually sometimes believe his crap -- I hate that ! He is so convincing and I think I can be bitch sometimes -- Ahhhh, I just hate all these feelings coming at once ! So much healing ...

a woman learning to love again

Feb 19 - 12AM (Reply to #45)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

reneek

Do you know if the GAL will want emails from the whole thing or just since the settlement? Whether the GAL asks or not - give them EVERYTHING you think is relevant... even if they don't ask. Do you think it would be good to have my therapist talk to the GAL-- after all he was the one who figures out I was dealing with a Narc... Yes. Insist on it. But don't YOU be the one to bring up the word NARCISSIST. ~~~~~~~~~ The world is a dangerous place, not only because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. - Albert Einstein Visit My Info. Website for Abuse Victims
Feb 18 - 7AM
ForeverLearning
ForeverLearning's picture

Quietude Did An Excellent Job

Reneek, I think Quietude did an excellent job in breaking his email down to the straight nuts and bolts of pure Narcissistic statements and manipulation attempts. We are darn lucky around here to have Quietude's insight, she is awesome and brilliantly perceptive to these type manipulation attempts. Try not to get too riled up about his continued attempts to control you from afar through your daughter. And try not to spend too much time thinking about clever responses to his madness. In the end it only robs you of precious time from your own life and happiness you could be having elsewhere doing other things with that time, rather than messing with responding to his permanently screwed up nutcase loser ass. All the best to you and your daughter.
Feb 18 - 9AM (Reply to #42)
quietude (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

foreverlearning

Aw, ty..that is very sweet :)
Feb 18 - 7AM (Reply to #41)
reneek
reneek's picture

you got it right !

I agree with all you said !

a woman learning to love again

Feb 17 - 10PM
quietude (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

dunno

I've seen them before. The only thing is, specifics may be recognized if you think he's lurking?? But that's just my 2 cents.
Feb 17 - 10PM (Reply to #38)
reneek
reneek's picture

he doesn't have a clue

I am on the website ... I get frustrated with my user name that is more the telltale ... didn't know how it would show up when I signed up. I will post it ... back in a minute

a woman learning to love again

Feb 17 - 10PM (Reply to #39)
quietude (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

reneek

I think you can put in a request to change it, just ask the web admin.
Feb 17 - 10PM (Reply to #2)
Piscesdream
Piscesdream's picture

Post it and change the

Post it and change the names, dates, and what nots if you want. I haven't been really secretive about a few things (like his name and the site he uses), but I try. =)
Feb 17 - 10PM (Reply to #3)
reneek
reneek's picture

any one care to comment on this letter and spot some issues

R, I would so much enjoy having a relationship based on mutual concern and caring with you. You hung up on me before I could finish my thought, but I want you to know that I have hope that we could have a more functional relationship, and I know that we will all benefit if that can be so. I like being able to talk to you, and I think you like being able to talk to me. I feel so much happier about things when I feel that you have some compassion for me and interest in being helpful to me, like your offer of the car seat below. I bet you feel the same. I like it when you have an earnest desire to help me in my responsibilities as S's father. (I am not just talking about going out to buy clothes for S here.) I feel very hurt when you tell me that I am "not as good a father" and can't express any empathy for my point of view on things. It is very hurtful to me when you leave me with the impression that I am someone that you just need to tolerate in life because the law says so and you express no true belief of your own that you want me to be in S's life. I have just felt so dehumanized, disempowered, violated, and exploited by this whole process, and it makes it so hard to feel good about things when I feel that way. I wish I could feel good all the time (or even most of the time) about you and I wish that I could feel that I want to help you be a better mom and even desire to go beyond what you might ask, to make your life easier and richer as you mother S. I wish we could all feel so good, like we do from time to time, when we communicate. I want to be a great dad for S. I want you to support my desire to be a great dad for S, even if you don't always agree with how a want to express my "great dad-ism". I am not saying at all that I don't think you should ever disagree with me, but sometimes, if you could, just defer to me, even if you have the power to coerce me. Like your ideas about the vaccine schedule - you know I have never felt about that issue the way you do, but I didn't get in the way of you letting you do it your way. Maybe sometimes, if you think about things, you might find that some things are not that important, and S will be all the better off because we are all just happy. I think sometimes your rejection of me as a human being allows you to treat me in ways that you would never treat someone that you cared about - so maybe that's it. "He is just to be tolerated, and who gives a turd how he feels?". I know that you are not like that 100% of the time, but it is way too much of the time - hence the sense of dehumanization, etc. I am crying as I write this. I am a valid, competent human being, with all the skills and judgment to raise healthy child. You have been entrusted by the law to be her primary care provider, but that in no way means that if things were otherwise, and she was primarily my charge, that she wouldn't be raised to have a healthy happy, productive life. You likely disagree with that, but in my heart I know it is true. I love S. S, her daD

a woman learning to love again

Feb 18 - 12PM (Reply to #36)
TexN (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Reneek

Count all the "me" & "I"'s!!! Yep, It's All About Him!!!!
Feb 18 - 12PM (Reply to #37)
rache
rache's picture

YEP!

I,ME,MINE,=a narcissistic asshole,and,reading that made me see all the things my ex N says=mutual caring=i'll do a LITTLE for you as long as i get a LOT back.
Feb 17 - 10PM (Reply to #18)
quietude (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

rennek

"hope that we could have a more functional relationship" Really? Where was he all along with this feeling when he was totally DYSfunctional? He does not know what healthy is... "I like being able to talk to you, and I think you like being able to talk to me". Ha, I found this rather patronizing...you're not a kid. "I feel so much happier about things when I feel that you have some compassion for me and interest in being helpful to me" Of course he does..it's ALL about his happiness, screw yours.. "I feel very hurt when you tell me that I am "not as good a father" He's pissed that you know the truth, he does not 'hurt' GUILT TRIPPING, big time! "I have just felt so dehumanized, disempowered, violated, and exploited by this whole process, and it makes it so hard to feel good about things when I feel that way" Oh BOO HOO, poor ME, I'M the victim here! "I wish I could feel good all the time (or even most of the time) about you and I wish that I could feel that I want to help you be a better mom and even desire to go beyond what you might ask, to make your life easier and richer as you mother" Oh my! Well, there IS some truth there, he wants his way ALL the time..he wishes it were so. And LOL - what's STOPPING him from 'going beyond' what's asked. NOTHING. Except for his ego...this is blackmail - I'll give you what you want, if you give me what I want. "I am not saying at all that I don't think you should ever disagree with me", OH YES he is! "Maybe sometimes, if you think about things, you might find that some things are not that important, and S will be all the better off because we are all just happy". He hopes you will stay under his spell so you will blow off his bad behavior... "I think sometimes your rejection of me as a human being allows you to treat me in ways that you would never treat someone that you cared about - so maybe that's it". This is eerily close to the truth, you are rejecting him, rightfully so because he is non-human. You aim your care toward real people with real feelings, that's the right thing to do. "who gives a turd how he feels" Poor him...and he's projecting here. He doesn't care about anyone but himself. "I know that you are not like that 100% of the time, but it is way too much of the time" You're not letting me control you ALL the time, damn you! "I am crying as I write this". My ex used this line a LOT...I've always HIGHLY doubted it! "I am a valid, competent human being, with all the skills and judgment to raise healthy child" WRONG. "You likely disagree with that, but in my heart I know it is true". Good for you to disagree..you are protecting the well-being of your child. He has no heart, and doesn't know the truth if it hit him smack dab between the eyes. This letter makes me want to jump in the shower..yuck! He's so patronizing, and totally talks down to you...and like you're a child. It reminds me of Mr. Rogers...I can be happy, and you know what makes me happy...don't you?? Just irritating.
Feb 18 - 5PM (Reply to #35)
Kelly
Kelly's picture

Haha

Awesome!
Feb 17 - 10PM (Reply to #19)
reneek
reneek's picture

You got the whole thing sista !

You saw right through his crap ! The line I loved because it was true was I feel you just see me as someone to tolerate ... "yes, and the problem with that is ??? The law forces me to deal with in a misguided way thinking you are someone that is in her best interest to know. I don't, but the law makes me obliged to it -- so I have to tolerate you and that is all I want." You crack me up ... oh Quietude ... I could keep you entertained for hours with his crap -- this email when it came in made me just laugh so hard. Tomorrow I will post my response to it ... I did screw up at the time ... it was too long. I am so damn verbose and a fast typer too! I have new rules for myself -- I am only allowed to email between the hours of 7-10 at night ... I am going to have another rule soon to keep narrowing the scope of the email intrusion.

a woman learning to love again

Feb 17 - 11PM (Reply to #22)
quietude (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

reneek

Well, I've had lots of practice translating my exN's crap! lol Girl, I could show you 100's of e-mails too that would make you think they were the same man!! Some advice? I personally would NOT respond to this! There is not reason to. PLUS what you write can be used against you. The only thing at the most you should have to do is e-mail about your daughter's basic needs...i.e., "DD has a doctor's appointment on Thursday at 3:00 while she's with you. If you can't take her, please let me know". No matter what he writes, you always stay in control. Barbara has some great co-parenting tips on the forums if you do a search. No more emotional e-mails. This only fuels him. If he wants to talk specifics about child custody and payment arrangements, he can go through his lawyer, who in turn, can go through yours. Start disengaging...Ignore his BS and bait. Strict NC (except short, to the point child-related business emails) will help you immensely.
Feb 18 - 11AM (Reply to #23)
agnesmurphy17
agnesmurphy17's picture

Quietude's Right

When she says do not respond. My take here is that this guy is basically telling you that he wants all that which you want--communication, compassion, respect & what is in the best interests of S. Trying to hook you in with all your sentiments. This is how mine hooked me in the beginning . . . we seemed to agree son much on how we wanted to live our lives in a comitted relationship. He's losing control here. He feels somehow that you may be getting the upper hand in all these court harangues. It's what is called "hoovering." Empty promises because he's incapable of a mature relationship. And, I agree, he's just trying to get you to engage so he can feed on your emotions, your human kindness. And, I think he's right that you tolerate him because you must, legally. Who does he have to blame that you do not trust him? I hear nothing of his own culpability in your position towards him. I remember once you wrote that you used to send him e-mail updates on her progress. You were very nice & civil on the assumption that he was an interested dad. I read in "Stalking the Soul" that the perverse narcissist finds the victim's being nice, polite & civil = patronizing him. When I read that it was the lifting of scales from my eyes. I always wondered why he seemed so peeved when I tried to be upbeat & friendly. These guys do not understand common decency & civility & politeness because they do not feel that themselves. They are wondering--Why is she doing this? What's she after? That's because this is all they think about . . . How can I use this situation, this person, to my best advantage.
Feb 18 - 11AM (Reply to #24)
reneek
reneek's picture

0h my God

What you wrote from the book is a "ah ha" moment for me !! He used to tell me I thought you were being nice to me when she was born to "suck me in and use me" What???? I couldn't understand that thinking. He also said to me once when I was pregnant "I didn't trust when you fell in love with me -- you had no idea what kind of bastard I could be and I thought you must have been thinking to yourself, my my, I have such a great catch here!" I was confused beyond belief. I just liked him -- thought he was funny,interesting and that we had a lot in common -- I had no idea!! I have an order I putting through on Amazon -- doing the above $25 thing to get free shipping -- I will definitely read it. Thanks Agnes. Did you read my response below (which I know I shouldn't have given in the first place -- but any insights into that as well -- besides -- you shouldn't have done that.

a woman learning to love again

Feb 18 - 11AM (Reply to #25)
agnesmurphy17
agnesmurphy17's picture

Your Response

I read your response. I understand your points. These guys just twist & manipulate everything. When you do the GAL thing . . . you are going to be so totally floored by his analysis of your words in these exchanges. It is just so, so painful. I think he's very worried about the GAL. N's & abusers are really into "privacy." Code word for nobody knows what happens here to sully their reputation of respectability. I find it interesting that he termed himself a "bast**d." I have noticed some others here have gotten such similar true statements. I never got any such admissions out of my N. That I find very interesting. Seems that sometimes these guys have lucid moments. Also, shows that all the abuse is INTENTIONAL. They know what they are doing. I think that they are really childlike. When I was a child, I threw spoons on the floor to control my world. I had no empathy about the food mess my mother had to clean up. When I became a man, I threw women down on the floor & banged them & played with their minds & emotions as as to control my world. I had no empathy as to the emotional mess I left them in. And, when mommy took my spoon away. I screamed & beacme enrgaged. How dare she prevent me from doing that which I enjoyed. And, when the woman got up off the floor and said "No More"--I became enraged & screamed ... How dare she challenge my control & my authority & deprive me of my pleasure! So, when do you think this doctor of your's is going to find a new victim? Or, is it that his other children grew up . . . & his thing is to torment the mommies of his children with "co-parenting?" Are you there where he wants you & he will never go away because this situation is the harangue he has thrived on his entire life with the mothers of his his children. There is this Irish joke. Mary I am so sorry. I've fallen in love with Ann O'Brien. I am leaving you. I love the children dearly. It kills me to leave them. But Ann & I are in love. Mary says, I think that's fine. And, I make a gift to you & Ann of our children whom you so dearly love. All 8 of them! Your N . . . he can't even buy this child a few outfits at H&M! What would he do as a full time parent? So much for his love. And, his mother is a monster. Why didn't she get the clothes like your mom does?
Feb 18 - 12PM (Reply to #26)
reneek
reneek's picture

you really crack me up Agnes

Good stuff ! I love the joke. Thank you for the warning with the GAL -- it is true, he will twist so much, I see it all the time -- words have only the meaning he intends them to have. When we went to court the other day -- it was hilarious because his lawyer was trying to use an email of mine against me -- he read half of sentence and stopped -- the judge had the document in her hand and finished reading the sentence. Oh his mother is a monster and my daughter is going to be with him, his mother and a very angry 13 year old girl who is being brought in to be another soldier of hate. My daughter will be with them for 3 days and they are going to play all sorts of cruel power games using my love for my child to torture me -- it may be the hardest 3 days of my life. Putting your child in enemy hands -- I know that sounds dramatic, but it is true. I will close my eyes, pray for it to be over as soon as it starts and document, document, document. The only good thing is I will be working for a large part of the time so work will serve as a great distraction. Does it sound awful -- I don't wish harm on my child, but if she got a high fever the day she is supposed to fly out with him -- I wouldn't have a problem. Our contract says if she is sick she doesn't visit .... fevers are curable, but she needs her bed and her mom ; )

a woman learning to love again

Feb 18 - 12PM (Reply to #27)
agnesmurphy17
agnesmurphy17's picture

Vacation

I was wondering about this vacation. What sort of a man wants to take a child to Florida for 3 days! I thought, must have a woman somewhere to take care of child. Actually, my friend who got breast cancer. Her N always took his daughter away to places for vacation. Seemed to be something for him. I don't know. I feel that your N may be a lot like her N. For some reason, really wrapped up in children. She had two with him! Stuck with him for over 10 years trying to make the relationship work. After they split, he met another woman & they had two as well. He lives with this woman now. Apparently the home life is along the lines of the Jerry Springer Show. N & New Woman seem to think that this is "honesty." Your're right . . . words have no meaning for these dudes. Communication, true communication is not the point of the words. The point is control. The point is the harangue. To engage. To manipulate. It's counter-intuitive. So difficult not to fall into the communication trap. After I left mine, his take was--we had communication problems; we had adjustment problems. See how they use normal psychology to manipulate . . . cover abuse as communication or adjustment problems? This made me out as the bad gal who reneged on the marital vows. This is how I left our mutual world. All those couples we socialized with, the wives flocked to the aid of the abandoned man against a woman who was incapable of a mature & sustained relationship with the normal ups & downs & frictions. And if I said he was abusive. Well, he told us that she is a depressive & hyper-sensitive. Makes sense. Be careful. Your's will possibly make sense with the GAL. You know what hung Woody Allen up with Mia Farrow? On cross-exam, he did not know who the child's doctor was! Trying to get cusotdy of their son & he didn't know what doctor to call in an emergency. Stop helping your N to be a good father. Let him be oblivious. Maybe, in all of this, he will falter. The GAL will notice what a self-centered jerk he is.
Feb 18 - 8PM (Reply to #34)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

not mad...

Barbara, please don't get mad that I sent an email trying to help prep him for the week. I keep forgetting what I am dealing with -- I mean I truly thought this was a normal letter -- am I wrong -- am I the bad guy here? I am not mad... he did my job for me - what do you expect from a pathological disordered prick like him. These guys could turn the Bible into an attack on them personally. NO MORE LONG LETTERS TO HIM. ONE LINE COMMUNICATION. Just the facts. Period. and NO RESPONDING TO HIS BAITING, either. ~~~~~~~~~ The world is a dangerous place, not only because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. - Albert Einstein Visit My Info. Website for Abuse Victims
Feb 18 - 8PM (Reply to #29)
reneek
reneek's picture

I am really scared of the GAL and the spin

We just got our orders and we were assigned a lawyer rather than a mental health professional and I not happy about that -- I haven't seen one lawyer attuned to narcissism or abuse yet. And in the order the Judge was punitive to me and is making me pay for the change in airline tickets to go to Florida -- I don't get it -- if we based the decision on the best interest of the child why I am supposed to solely pay for the change in tickets -- I am pretty scared of the whole system and here is another email and look at the twist. The twist is so good its got me wondering if I am the crazy abusive and controlling one. Barbara, please don't get mad that I sent an email trying to help prep him for the week. I keep forgetting what I am dealing with -- I mean I truly thought this was a normal letter -- am I wrong -- am I the bad guy here? Will a GAL see me as controlling and overbearing -- does this email seem like that? I am a bit confused at the moment. Here are the emails: S, A few quite things to think about as you begin you trip prep for S. You will need sunscreen and swim diapers -- she is about 30 lbs. so that is how ou should target the diaper. I was not able to measure her feet this week and as you know you will have her this weekend leaving me no opportunity to get her foot measured. I suggest in your time with her this weekend, you get her foot measure and maybe even get shoes for the trip -- complete that errand and get it out of the way. The shoes don't need to be extravagant since she will only wear them for 3 days -- please though don't just get flip flops as she is so young and she runs and does things that flip flops even in 3 days will not support and could even lead to an accidental fall or something. A light easy summer shoe that allows her to run and give her decent support would be good. I will worry about getting her the more expensive ankle supporting shoe closer to summer when we know her foot size then and it can last for several months. If I think of other things you need to have for her prep I will let you know, but I imagine a week out you will want to get your shopping done. -- Reply show details 9:44 AM (11 hours ago) R, As a fully competent adult, I must say that I find your dictates on how I will spent my time are overbearing. I can't help but think that to be so is your intent, as any person reading you emails will see. Please do me the respect of allowing me to plan my own time and activities. You may also realize that your constant overbearing comments and attempts to control my time through S, of which I can cite many examples, lead to a natural desire to not share unessential information with you so that I will not be subjected to your predictably angry overreactions, should your specific expections not be met. This is not to say that there shouldn't be some communication about perceived needs of the child that [asses between the parents, but in my opinion your comments go well beyond what is normal and acceptable and I ask you to reflect on you opinions and comments before you send them to me. Your future appropriate respect for my autonomy and intelligence as a human being is requested, S

a woman learning to love again

Feb 19 - 5PM (Reply to #33)
AnotherPath
AnotherPath's picture

This could be my exN writing

This could be my exN writing this, it's the sort of thing he'd write before I went NC. That's why NC and only "cold facts" when dealing with the kids issues are the only way to deal with him, otherwise you get all this arrogant drivel in response.

Ending the dance

Feb 18 - 8PM (Reply to #30)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

reneek

remain calm and focused be sure to share ALL his crazy emails, texts and your journal with the GAL do NOT say "he's a narc" - but do concentrate on his selfishness, lack of caring about what best for your child, only cares about self, no empathy, doesn't communicate vital information with you... etc. Don't assume he will charm them like he charmed you. Keep fighting for your child! Stop letting anxiety run your show. Have everything documented. EVERYTHING. Be sure the GAL sees these ridiculous emails and your journal. Is your child in therapy? are you? these therapists should be involved as well. ~~~~~~~~~ The world is a dangerous place, not only because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. - Albert Einstein Visit My Info. Website for Abuse Victims
Feb 18 - 9PM (Reply to #31)
reneek
reneek's picture

I am in therapy

For a year now, was in a domestic violence clinic after she was born at the recommendation of my Ob/Gyn. I have all those notes. My daughter is too young for therapy -- have talked to the a therapist and they said not yet. I've been journaling my deepest feelings for the past 2 years --- is that what you suggest sharing? Today I read something I wrote where I wished him dead --- that is pretty scary for someone to see. They assigned a power house lawyer as the Guardian Ad Litem --- crazy expensive person. I was going to ask my lawyer if we could get a mental health professional instead from both the abuse standpoint and the financial standpoint. Barbara, do you think in my email I sound like a controlling woman for real? What if it is me ? what if I am the crazy one? My God, the strength to go through this is going to be so hard -- is i also coming at a time where our entire child care program and plan is going to be disrupted -- so much stress !!!! Okay, can I fall apart tonight and have strength tomorrow ... I get the one word stuff

a woman learning to love again

Feb 20 - 10AM (Reply to #32)
itreallyisabouthim
itreallyisabouthim's picture

I don't think I"d want to

I don't think I"d want to share the part about wishing him dead. WE know you don't really mean you're homicidal but you can never assume that others will know.
Feb 18 - 2PM (Reply to #28)
ForeverLearning
ForeverLearning's picture

Great Point On Not Knowing Who The Doctor Is

I have seen this type stuff in a child custody battle too. And the father didnt know the school teachers name nor doctor's name nor the name of the church/sunday school she was attending. He did not come out on top in the custody battle. Don't give him any info voluntarily unless you feel you must.
Feb 17 - 11PM (Reply to #20)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

right on

nice job on 'WHAT HE SAYS vs WHAT HE REALLY MEANS' quietude.. you didn't need me at all! ;) be sure to count up the "I... ME... MY..." statements. Big giveaway I HOPE YOU DIDN'T RESPOND! ~~~~~~~~~ The world is a dangerous place, not only because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. - Albert Einstein Visit My Info. Website for Abuse Victims