Push/pull dynamic

Love of My Life wrote in another post: "I also think mine got tired of the "you hurt me - why did you say that - why did you do that?" and then setting him up and catching him in lies to test my theory really didn't go over well (of course; and I only did that when I was sure he didn't really care for me at all)" This is interesting. I would have never dared confront my N with his lies, or set him up to be unmasked. Mine would have become BALLISTIC & very dangerous. Towards the end of our marriage, he said to me: "I was never sexually or emotionally connected to you. I married you because I thought my love would transform you the way [ex-girlfriend's] love transformed me." I was stunned. Then he went away on a business trip. When he returned, he was all lovely-dovey (wanting sex)--I said to him, "Whoa! I think you're gonna have to explain this comment. I mean, we are not connected. What's the point?" I cannot describe to you what happened. A most unbelievable scene. He picked up a box of books and ripped the corrogated cardboard with his teeth. Threw the books all over the place. Then threw himself on the floor, on his belly. Then he pounded the floor with his fists & feet (a child having a tantrum). Started to threaten me. It was horrible. That was the end for me. All I asked was for him to explain something to me that he said several times. I was so terrifed of him. What would happen if I actually confronted him with black & white proof of his lies? I shudder to think. Mine always wanted me to "mirror" him. He would get angry with me because I did not repeat back to him what he said in a conversation. At the time I did not understand "mirroring" and the narcissist. But, I learned, that I had to be careful what I repeated back to him. There were other times when I repeated back to him things which he had said to me & he went crazy because it did not make him look good or get him what he wanted in the moment. I could never hold my N accountable. My N lived only in the present. No past & no future. He could say & do anything & there was no accountability. I wonder how anybody could confront one of these people? Can you actually do it? Maybe there are more reasonable Ns out there? Mine may have been very extreme. Once I get away, I never looked back. No longing for the Dr. Jekyll mask. Mr. Hyde was so awful & painful that I had "bait aversion" for the entire man. I have been so truly poisoned. I see now that I was so caught in his world. I accepted his premises. I repeated back to him his words. I lived in an artificial world of his constructs, trying to communicate with him on his terms, in the words he used. In the end, I was an emotional wreck because my entire life was his lies.

I have read a lot of the socipathworld.com blog. The bottom line for me is that they do what they do because that is who they are. I realize after spending three years trying to "figure" him and the relationship out that it has been a complete waste of time. I will never understand. I am not wired the same way as he is. Did he enjoy being with me? Probably when I was adoring him. Why did he D&D me? Because he got bored or because I was too much work - I mean how fun is it to constantly hear someone say - I can't believe what you did to me. You are a liar - You are a bad person - etc. He didn't want to hear that - he really believes he is a great guy - in his mind - it didn't work - hey relationships end - get over it. Why does he still call? Because in his mind he did nothing wrong and thinks he has the right to be my friend - I mean time heals all wounds right (from his mouth!). If there is one thing we can all learn from sociopaths and narcissists is that we should spend more time thinking about ourselves and figuring out what we want. Instead of revisiting the dysfunctional relationship and endless hours of thinking about him - we should think about what makes us happy - what we want in life - and eventually (if we decide) spend our lives with someone who is capable of a real relationship. I am so over trying to get this. I get it - he is who he is - he will never change and I refuse to spend one more minute of my precious life trying to understand him. It's time for me to appreciate and love myself and be concerned with what I am doing and why I am doing it. I am mad at myself - not for falling for him and his lies, but for wasting years of my life trying to get over him and understand it all. I got involved in the relationship because I didn't believe in myself. Sure he manipulated me and brainwashed me - but I allowed it to happen. I knew who he was and I knew he was a pathological liar. The day I discovered he lied to me I should have cared more about myself than about US. The real lesson I have learned is that I must look out for myself and my feelings. I need to listen to my instincts and never again believe that there is someone out there who will "save" me or complete me. I am whole and complete just the way I am.

I find myself in your same situation all the time. I get sucked in by the pleasant conversation that makes me feel like an important part of my N's life. It's so validating to have that normal, neutral conversation about day to day events... yet we are really just listening to the N's life. The N is not interested in hearing about our life. But we smile and nod, so happy to be thrown this bone. If you think about it, this bone is so succulent, because we are treated so badly on a regular basis. We should not be so overjoyed just to be a part of a normal conversation. But we are. This is all part of the push/pull, hot/cold... and we experience all the pain while the N's feel nothing. We are on an emotional roller coaster that goes nowhere. We have to get off this ride.

What does that mean.. "phase 2 of no contact"? No contact means NO CONTACT. Forever. Close the door and put a padlock on it. By doing NC and then talking to him, you are just reinforcing his cyclic behavior. You are telling him that he can do what he wants with you, you will go NC for a little while, then he comes back with his sweet act to soften you up-- he has you exactly where he wants you. When you talk to him, you are telling him it is ok to treat you like crap...The cycle just continues. This is typical textbook N behavior. This push/pull is also known as "the emotional roller coaster". You must get off immediately. Listen to what everyone is saying here!

Hi.. I haven't posted here in months and months, but have been reading a bit again lately, and your situation continues to drive me nuts. Until you ACCEPT the fact that this man doesn't care about you, you are in serious danger of him totally ruining your career and possibly your life. I'm not going to sugar coat anything, because you HAVE TO HEAR IT. A year ago I went thru a lot of similar feelings and it's a nightmare to come to terms that a narcissist DOES NOT CARE ABOUT YOU OR ANYONE. It's an ego and soul battering experience, but if you can run a company then surely you can come back to reality. If you don't, you are SCREWED. I would still be wallowing if some people didn't take me by the collar and and shake the shit out of me to get me to wake up. That they DD you and then come back all sweet and you are not sure why..... Any insights on this one? I haven't been able to completely initiate no contact. I have about 3 more weeks before I can do that. But at least he is not at the company anymore, so I don't have to see him and his eyes! But he called and talked to me for an hour today – sweet as always;, Okay, fine, you can't completely initiate NO contact... but why does that mean you can have a personal conversation for an hour? You are busy, you are working, you are going out, you are doing XYZ... NO PERSONAL CONVERSATIONS. You are making excuses like an alcoholic. I'm going to quit in three weeks so meanwhile I'll drink 7 margaritas while I still can. Sweet as always? Go back and read your posts for all the times he is NOT sweet as always, threatening you, etc. Hmm, was he as sweet as he always is to the 37 other women he talks to? talked about how excited he was about a trip he took with his son to college and all of the neat things they did down there (engaging in personal conversation when he said he wanted none of that). It was a very fun conversation., Get out of backwards land... that's right, he's decided he WILL engage in personal conversation WHEN IT SUITS HIM, never mind what he said. What would happen, love, if YOU wanted a personal conversation and he didn't? He'd tell you to piss off, humiliate you, and even threaten you with harassment. Which is what YOU should have done when he decided to violate HIS own rule. "Gee, N, you said no personal conversations and this really violates the boundaries of our professional relationship. Please stop clinging to me like this. Bye now." Then you can get off the phone and cry and feel sick but that's what you have to DO. I know why you don't. It feeeelllsss ssoooo good to have that time with him. Just like any drug addict. I get it, we all get it, but you can't get better until you ADMIT this is going on. Some people never quit drugs because they love them too much to give them up. The other problem here is you are accepting mixed messages as meaning he does care. WRONG!! Normal people don't send mixed messages. He's just an ASSHOLE playing with you when he feels like it and pushing you off when he doesn't. It doesn't MEAN anything. Said that he was concerned about me being overwhelmed and was very concerned about preserving my sanity (that the owner would never notice it so he feels that he is the only one who would protect my welfare) and he will do anything to help me with that.... RED HOT FLAG ALERT: Brainwashing technique 101. He is the only one who would protect your welfare? Wow. God help you then. What a bullshit statement... but your ears are hearing "he cares about me." No, he's brainwashing you. Including he just refinanced his house so he could give me the $ for the business. Just signed the papers today and he can come with $ tomorrow. Why indeed? So if he's an investor...you fill in the blanks. We laughed a lot and it was just like normal. No, it's not normal. It's just like the illusion he creates when needed. What's normal is that he does this and in between TREATS YOU LIKE SHIT. LIKE A DOG HE PUTS OUT BACK WHEN IT'S BEING NAUGHTY. What does he want with me??? To f**k with your head and get something out of your business. Is this truly just him doing the right thing for the company and feeling that obligation (he was terminated in October and he has no fondness at all for owner so it is hard to believe this is true virtue), They never do the right thing and they never feel obligation, and if he has no fondness for the company, then you MUST see that he is up to something. or maybe this is the only way he can think to make some type of amends without having me “take it the wrong way and read too much into it”. Jesus, this is where you need the collar shaking. HE IS NOT MAKING AMENDS TO YOU. See how he's brainwashed you into already thinking, Oh I can't take it the wrong way or read too much into it... Because he has TRAINED you to accept him leading you on and THEN saying, OMG, love, you're reading too much into it. When of course you did NOT. It's exactly what he wanted you to do. How could someone not "read something into it" when this jerk has done the things he's done but is now OFFERING YOU MONEY from the refi of his house. Or maybe he just wants to make sure he is around when there is $ so that he can conveniently ask for a bonus. Well at least you're getting warmer. Putting money in the company is the same as buying CONTROL. CONTROL CONTROL CONTROL. DON'T DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So basically, he is offering me alot of $ and it sounds like he wants to come out to work again as he was questioning my ability to get this done given the amount of work that needs to be done. Wow, what a guy... tells you you can't handle it so he'll come out and take care of it for you. Without you even asking for this help. BRAINWASHING. Can you handle it? I assume so. If you take his money and his "help" you are screwed, love. Totally screwed. Basically he insulted you and then says he'll fix it? And this makes you happy?? So is he concerned about me as a human because he cares for me and my sanity, NO. Plus infinity. As pointed out... he is manipulating you getting you to QUESTION your sanity and ability to do your job... CLASSIC CLASSIC PREDATORY BEHAVIOR. or does he just want to show he is a great guy Always. and can get this deal closed, or just wants a payoff and is using me for $ in the long term (this is a big, big upside in the medium term). If you take this money it will ruin your life. THERE IS NO UPSIDE. Love, this is the worst thing that anyone has to face... but babe, he has always been using you for money, career, and payoff. Always. That's who you are to him. YOU ARE NOT SPECIAL TO HIM. I can still read your thoughts, girl,. you talk about the fake girlfriends, and the fake fiancee and blah blah, but YOU really understand him. YOU ARE A FAKE GIRLFRIEND TOO. You are not The One, and they are the suckers. Everyone is the same to a narcissist. Everyone. And if you can't see the OBVIOUS monetary value you have in his life, then I'm truly sorry for you. Truly. You sound like way to good of a person and have too much on the ball to let this loser take it all away from you. I can’t figure out if I am being used here or what his motivations are. His motivations aren't really the question, but is this really true? You REALLY can't figure out if you are being used? Really? Only three more weeks until I can implement phase 2 of no contact. If you are having hour long fun conversations with him then you haven't even implemented phase 1. Lastly, I know I was very hard on you. But you are in such a precarious position I think it's necessary. We ALL know how much it hurts to face this reality. And it's insane to us because how could someone fake it like they do, but THEY DO. We ALL know how hard NC is, we all feel like we're going to die for a while. But guess what, you don't. I've been NC for a year... and it amazes me that a year ago I cried every single day, could barely function, and could think of nothing else but this man, and believed I couldn't live without him. Ha! I am doing better than ever before finally. Barbara once gave me the advice to write out all the crap things they did on a list and post it on your mirror or something. Make of list of the lies he tells, of the humiliations, the DDs, etc... and have that in your face every day. Then when he comes calling and you hear that sweet speech you can look right at that list of LIES which is WHO HE IS. The Bible speaks of the man "whose speech is smooth as butter but war is in his heart."