real frank question: how did you confirm that your N was an N and not something else?

I just want to say I just read all of these comments, and wow this board is GREAT! Wonderful answers, that I plan to share with a friend in denial! I don't have ANYTHING I could add to these great posts, except to say that after I put the program on my N's computer I was totally BLOWN AWAY by the depth of his depravity and evil. My sister-in-law had dealt with some N's and told me to research it. I googled it, found Sandra Brown's site and books, and this site. I am still reading old posts, looking at the excellent links Barbara has posted!

For me it was pretty simple. I followed my gut. I knew something was not right with this person. His behaviors, the words he spoke, his mannerisms,his perceptions on reality, his lack of connection, his distance to the world, the way he treated others, his secretive life and so much more. It was all there in front of me. I just didnt know the formal name for his disorder but i knew it existed. In the end you can place any name you want on this illness. If he has these traits that you so often read about on this msg board and you find yourself identifying with everything you read here, well chances are you lived with a NARC. Denial is just a part of our illness.

the PSYCHOPATH had many a 'formal diagnosis' over the years.......always on MY dime!.....let's see.....ALCOHOLIC was a favorite.......then two said he had ADULT ATTENTION DEFICIT DISORDER....the another said he had ANXIETY DISORDER (what a fucking joke)......one KNEW he was a psychopath...but the psychopath didn't care for THAT diagnosis....because he couldn't get any DRUGS for that...... he easily fooled therapists and psychiatrists....just like he fooled everyone else......so a 'formal diagnosis' is asswipe...... “I do not bring forgiveness with me, nor forgetfulness. The only ones who can forgive are dead; the living have no right to forget." - Chaim Herzog

i knew from the start something was wrong... very very very wrong... but had no idea what it was.... no idea at all... he was drunk all the time... so i ASSUMED alcoholism... and he led me to believe that, too...s o he could play VICTIM... went to an counselor with him... a counselor who attacked ME... for not being SUPPORTIVE enough of the psycho... and there it all begain... .the YEARS of ENDLESS blaming the REAL VICTIM... of course as it turned out, alcoholism was just one of many kinks in his chain... tens of thousands of dollars were spent on psychiatrists and therapists... and NONE of them really ever figured him out... not totally... because he was a MASTER manipulator... it was ADD... or it was this or it was that... but usually it was MY FAULT... he took sprees... bi annual drunken drugging raging sprees... like clockwork... and one night while he was gone on one... i got on the internet... and found 'THE MASK OF SANITY'... and read this... the psychopath suffers from a very real mental illness indeed: a profound and incurable affective deficit. If he really feels anything at all, they are emotions of only the shallowest kind. He does bizarre and self-destructive things because consequences that would fill the ordinary man with shame, self-loathing, and embarrassment simply do not affect the psychopath at all. What to others would be a disaster is to him merely a fleeting inconvenience. One very interesting aspect of the psychopath is his "hidden life" that is sometimes not too well hidden. It seems that the psychopath has a regular need to take a "vacation into filth and degradation" the same way normal people may take a vacation to a resort where they enjoy beautiful surroundings and culture.This strange "need" of the psychopath seems to be evidence that "acting human" is very stressful to the psychopath. all it needed was a photo of him... i finally KNEW what he was... and then i saw IN PRINT... what i had always felt deep down inside... Provided they are not FORCIBLY STOPPED, they can do anything at all. i knew then... hat i'd been right all along... for all those years... that my instincts were correct... he was a monster... who would never ever go away... unless he was FORCIBLY STOPPED... and he never did go away... until he was FORCIBLY STOPPED... by DEATH... “I do not bring forgiveness with me, nor forgetfulness. The only ones who can forgive are dead; the living have no right to forget." - Chaim Herzog

From the beginning, my friends sensed that my ex-N was an N... he had all the red flags. The crazy-making, his attempts to isolate me from my friends (which fortunately didn't succeed), the public humiliation. When I described how my ex-N reacted to my honest declarations of love--with anger and a power play (some have defined it as "emotional distancing and outright abandonment")--a friend of mine bluntly said he was a narcissist. She said his reactions weren't NORMAL. He wanted my admiration, but not respect or love. He also fit the description of the psychopath;the vacant eyes (serpent stare) and the fact that he'd creep people out. He'd often tell people to "read without emotions." He punished people for having emotions. Since narcissism is a pathology, I can only assume my ex-N hasn't changed in the past decade since the D&D.

I was dumped then dumped again and again and again then finally Discarded. Four years, it was "wonderful" hah! at first. I moved across the country because I had found my soul mate. HAH. Four years of mostly awful times, yet I stayed and dug in, tried, cried, screamed, acted like an insane witch, pleaded, tried harder... you get it. Throughout I thought he loved me, was just a little immature and selfish. I always complained that I never was a priority, he would apologize then not change. I stayed, co-dependent, sure I guess, but so much worse. He started cheating. I found out, he gave lame lies, blamed me, then said "sorry" but it was less than half hearted. I stayed. It got worse. He kept cheating. Had his child lie to me. I finally moved out. He strung me along until he secured his next victim, then he called me over to say he was moving on - and recoiled when I tried to kiss him goodbye. I have not spoke to him since (December 16). He sent odd emails for about a month, I did not respond. I was so confused. I typed in some of his behavior - Narcissism came up. I was thunderstruck. Narcissist/sociopath fit his description. He is one messed up guy. It was a nightmare. I am sooooo much happier without him, and yet, I think about him nearly every minute. I believe I will emerge stronger and happier and more secure in myself. I know. I know he is a narcissist/sociopath. Peace. J

Hello littlestbird, Alot of times it will just be the things you saw while you were together. Time away from him (NC) may give you a little more perspective...and see him in a new light when the poisonous fog clears up. It has been a couple of months for me, and I can now see how the puzzle pieces fit together, things you see all over this board: He completely lacks empathy, not just with me, but many people in his life, especially his parents/children He would never compromise Nothing was his fault His needs always came first He always devalued others around him, but was different when he was actually with them. On the surface he seemed extremely generous, but he only did favors for people who brought him sort sort of prestige by association He would become very angry if someone, even a stranger ignored him He could not handle critism He makes huge grandiose statemnts in the beginning, wanting love, commitment, family, blah blah blah, but then withdrew once he had what he wanted You can tell that he prefers to spend time with other people (new supply) to you, only when he is really tired or there is nothing else to do, then he will settle for your companionship He may require little sleep, meanwhile your sleeping patterns may start to suffer, you may feel exhausted and even ill (for the first and last time in my life, I had heart palpitations, and I am a 35 year old runner :) ) Where you were once such a cherished treausre, he now has no time for you or your life, your interests, even though you have done nothing to bring about the change. Being in a relationship with him, unlike healthy relationships that end respectfully, leaves you feeling violated, and I have even seen the term "soul rape" applied. These N's rarely get help unless they have suffered Narcissistic Injury (undeniable proof of not being the amazing gift tothe world that he belives himself to be), and even then its to deal with the immediate crisis and "feel better" not to actually deal with what the real issue is. Also many times they are so charming, intelligent and convincing that they even fool thier therapists unless they know what to look for. My ex-N was actually proud that he had won over his therapist, and mentioned how impressed the therapist was with his intelligence. Hope that helps?

habitual lying, cheating, LACK of remorse, lack of empathy, no shame, afraid of being alone. also behavior/conversation didnt make sense. like a on/off switch. like many said it was taking to a three year old and frustrating to get anywhere. i started looking up pathological lying at first because i just believed thats what it was...he lied for no reason. then i started reading some forums and typing out some of the stories that happened to be and came across the symptoms, and i just knew right away. the way he talked to me, the things he said, the way he had noooo emotion if i was sick, got into a accident, crying, the way he avoided responsibility, the way he was so immature about things. it all added up and i think if he went to a therapist he would be clinically diagnosed

Nothing of what he promised for us ever materialized, he started getting more and more sexually perverted, lied, made excuses yet would not quit calling me, could not figure out what this man wanted, it certainly wasnt sex with me because he would go months not seeing me, immediately I went to a professional it took him about 20 minutes to diagnose him all he wanted from me was to use me to bring him other victims for group sex that is sick and pathological and he was pretty much labeled as a sexual predator after that

It was an accumulation of 4 yrs in hell. First sign- he met me when I was depressed and having marital issues, he spoke about how all his ex's cheated on him and he didn't do anything(a missed red flag) the 2nd yr-anytime we spoke on the phone, he talked about himself, his job and friends- when it was my turn to speak, he'd always interrupt and say, "what does that have to do w/ me" so, I abruptly decided it was best to txt and not talk on the phone(another missed red flag). 3rd yr-i felt as if I was doing everything for him- resolving issues,making plans to see each other, making decisions, driving everywhere while he sat home waiting (another missed red flag)-i told him it felt like a one-sided relationship. We started arguing a lot when I told him my feelings about this exhausting relationship and how I didn't feel loved anymore. His reply was that I was complaining and #itching and I would get what I want if I'd quit complaining. I never got what I wanted, he did nothing at all to change and he'd blame me for it. I felt like he was all words and no action. But I think the sign that really got me thinking, was when he'd enjoy playing mind games, it was sadistic. I didn't understand as to why someone who said loved me enjoyed seeing me in pain. The last year was the worst. He talked bad about my friends, I felt very addicted to him even though he treated me badly. I told my best friend I felt like an alcoholic and he was the alcohol I told her the only cure was abstainence. So I tried many times of NC, but to no avail. Didn't understand I was brainwashed. Then it was the lying, he started lying about things he didn't have to lie about. And I thought if he lies so easily, he could cheat on me too. Things didn't make sense, I felt crazy. I'd ask him questions, he would call me crazy. That's when the verbal abuse started-calling me a whore when I'd catch him in another lie. So I started on a google search: pathological liar verses compulsive lying, cheating/pathological liar-then narcissist popped up. I read it, was shocked he met all of the criteria. Then I felt like an idiot for missing all the red flags. Goggled everything about narcissism and thank God I found this site. After reading blogs and a few stories and comments, I knew he was a narcissist. I read the book, bought and read 6 books about narcissism in one week and it was confirmed- he was a txtbook full blown narcissist! I have no doubts even though it's not right to diagnose, he has ALL the traits of a narissist and I hate him with all my heart :-)

littlest, I feel for you. There were times that I just WISH that he wasn't an N and that I was wrong...Over the years, I have had relationships and dated many men like this. I have been beating my head against a wall trying to figure out what this behavior was. Blaming myself and wondering what the heck was wrong with ME for years. I started researching and looking up passive-aggressive and key words to the behavior I was seeing. When I met this last one, I started researching right away, ALL of the behavior and I came up with Borderline or N. I don't recommend anyone do this, but since I still had to be around him, I tested him. I tested all of the things that I read about his behavior. From the lack of startle response to talking to him in third person, i.e "Why is (N) angry with (my name). Basically, I wanted to ensure that I was seeing it for real. He had left a lot of clues for me as well.

Well it took forever to figure it out. Once I learned about narcissism I thought that's him. Then I would waver, no he's just confused, etc. What really made me decide once and for all was thinking back over the entire course of the relationship, the good, the bad and the ugly. Two things stuck out the most - the lying - about everything in hindsight and the fact he could just turn it off on a dime. No matter what was happening in our relationship - he could go out, have a good time and not even care. Normal people cannot do that. Also the total lack of respect for boundaries. He could do anything he wanted but if I did the same thing I would hear about it forever. When you break up with a Narc there is something that is so not right about it. In a normal break up you are sad and miss the person but you can accept it and can even have closure with the person. With a Narc there never is closure. So if you try to talk to him about what happened you'll be met with lies or "I don't know's" Dealing with a Narc is really like dealing with a misbehaved three year old. When you shake your head over and over again and try to understand what the fuck happened to you - the answer is clear - he is a Narc.

mine was diagnosed by the clinical psychologist that we were seeing for almost 2 years!