So I Attempted to Ask...Again...What is Going On??

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#1 Dec 19 - 10AM

StillHurting

So I Attempted to Ask...Again...What is Going On??

For whatever reason I thought it would be a good idea to try to get some answers about what happened to our "relationship."

I have tried this how many times in the past six months? Maybe five times, maybe six times. Could this be the time the truth is spoken and I finally can have answers, understanding and a finalization? You guessed it, girls....NO!

Asking what about the feelings he had for me, what happened to our great love, what happened about future plans. Same answers as always...everything is fine, I don't know what you are worried about, I like you the same, everything is good on this end.

This is not the truth! It is not good. It is totally the opposite of what it was. Maybe one day he will snap and say, "I can't stand you any more. You are of no use to me." Maybe some day he will say something that has an ounce of truth to it.

Like others have mentioned, he just goes on his merry way living his life in his marriage, going here, there and everywhere, living normally. It is is infuriating. I also think men in general, Narc or not, do not dwell on relationships the way females do. They are able to be done and move on more quickly, at least this has been my experience. Some of this stuff they are doing is typical male behavior, but the cold and unfeeling replies are what is the deal breaker that makes it so different.

#2 Dec 19 - 1PM

Briseis

Honey, he IS telling you the

Honey, he IS telling you the truth :( His perverted Narc version, of course, but it is still as close to the "truth" as he knows how to get it. He didn't FEEL anymore love for you when he was so attentive and affectionate than he does now. This relationship (from his point of view) is nothing like what you've believed it to be. You believed it to be love. Him? He's a Narc. He just wants you there to draw supply from. Do you realize yet what it means that he is a Narc? It seems as though that part is not really hitting home. You wouldn't be alone there, or stupid or slow on the uptake. It takes as long as it takes to "get it". But right now, you aren't getting it. I didn't get it at first, no one here gets it except in their own time. The way you are approaching this . . . as if HE has the answers for you, is leading you down a garden path. In circles. OBVIOUSLY :P . He'd love to keep you hanging on forever, it gives him satisfaction to have you so sucked in to him, so needy and desperate for a scrap of attention. When HE wants some attention from you, you are there with bells on to give it!! See how that works? He's got you right where he wants you. Begging him, a supplicant, for scraps.

#3 Dec 19 - 2PM (Reply to #34)

Journey

The way it is

Well said Briseis. They are so incapable of even understanding our questions, let alone being able to give an answer that might give us any consolation or closure. I've stopped asking. That was the first thing that helped me progress in my recovery. Journey on...

Journey on...

#4 Dec 19 - 1PM (Reply to #31)

darkspark

vending machines

I read a comment on another board, where narcs and normies interact. A narc said that he sees people purely as 'supply vending machines'. He knows which button to press in order to get what he wants. When a machine stops giving him what he wants, he simply locates another one that will. Coming out of the fog is extremely painful and confusing. Everyone here who is struggling to wake up from mind control land has my deepest sympathies. It's a difficult process to observe, let alone live through. It's an unimaginably tough road. Each step towards recovery takes terrific effort, and all of us have found ourselves miles ahead one day and miles behind the next. But the narcs? We are but sport for them. Regardless of what any of us want to believe or wish were true, we are just a nice meal from a vending machine.

#5 Dec 19 - 2PM (Reply to #33)

Journey

Vending Machine

I love that! It really describes the lack of personalization the narc views us with. When I asked mine if he was in love with the ow he started seeing right after me, he said frustratedly "no, she's just number __, and I don't feel any different than I would if I was screwing my ____ instructor. Why should you care what I'm doing now anyway?" He said this as he was moving the last of his furniture out of my house (months after he moved out), and was about to start staying with her. I found out about 3 weeks later that he had done something 'disrespectful' (involving another woman I think) and that it was over between them. I don't know the details, I often think of contacting her to find out, but I don't know her. I sometimes wonder if she's here on this site - or if any of his ex's are. He's left enough of them in his wake that the odds are in my favor of coming across at least one of them. Journey on...

Journey on...

#6 Dec 19 - 1PM (Reply to #32)

Deidre99

omg...that's amazing. I

omg...that's amazing. I appreciate this post, because it ''helps'' a little to understand...at least why they do it.

#7 Dec 19 - 1PM (Reply to #15)

Deidre99

Agree with this. Largely why

Agree with this. Largely why I'm starting to feel 'better' not hearing from my N. Because now I see, that he didn't care...and was 'taken' for lack of a better word...with adding another woman to his harem of 'fans.' We are not fans, ladies...we are beautiful human beings who deserve the best someone has to offer. As Briseis says...not scraps. I like that way of viewing it.

#8 Dec 19 - 1PM (Reply to #16)

Briseis

Yes. StillHurting is a

Yes. StillHurting is a sincerely good, loving woman who would make a wonderful wife/partner to a man. And she's wilting away trying to get a ray of sunshine from that black hole of a Narc.

#9 Dec 19 - 1PM (Reply to #17)

Deidre99

It troubles me because I was

It troubles me because I was the same way! We all have been there, stillhurting. I hope that my post didn't offend anyone who has gotten involved with a married guy. I posted that mainly, to say that it wasn't narcissism that caused the main issue there. It was the entire situation being a bad scene that did. The narcissism existed, for a married man to do that to begin with, on some level. But, we women need to make sure that when a married man starts using us for a shoulder to cry on--it's not flattery. He's looking for an escape. And only a temporary one. Very few of these men leave their wives...and if they do? That is not a victory I'd want on my hands...oh, goodie. A married man is leaving his family...for me! lol You know? It is very hard to see the forest through the trees...but, watching my sister go through such a horrific situation with her guy a few years ago, really made me realize that it always ends badly.

#10 Dec 19 - 1PM (Reply to #18)

Briseis

There are a lot of gals on

There are a lot of gals on this board who have been involved with married men (myself included). It can be a touchy subject, so we keep it streamlined down to it being a Narc relationship like any other. Out of my experience, I realized that it was a huge insult to myself (though it did not feel insulting at the time) to place myself in a second fiddle sort of position. Honestly, I did not feel that way at the time. It only occurs to me NOW, after the last Narc, that I was devaluing myself. Devaluing just by being willing to accept a person who could not be 100% committed to ME. I have no moralisms against affairs, only practical reasons they are devaluing and diminishing.

#11 Dec 19 - 2PM (Reply to #30)

StillHurting

Bris...

Believe me, I recall saying "I am not somebody's second choice. If she is so terrible, she should be a second stringer, not me." It was a very hard thing all around. I think I posted this before that he never ever made me feel like second place runner up. He devoted huge amounts of time for more than a few years to me...At some point I realized it was not moving anywhere else, and I backed off for a bit. I believe this is where D&D started. Once I mentioned that I put X amount of time in, and what the heck are we going to do is when it started to change...Gee, imagine that?

#12 Dec 19 - 2PM (Reply to #24)

StillHurting

About him being married....

I feel terrible that I ever did this, so please don't think I do not. It was one of my strictest morals to never do such a thing. The way I feel about that aspect of this is terrible, believe me. This is how much I loved him and believed in this...enough to do something "criminal." ;-(

#13 Dec 19 - 2PM (Reply to #29)

Briseis

Honey, you were HOOKED IN by

Honey, you were HOOKED IN by a Narc. We have all done things that go against our personal ethics or morals because of these relationships. I had pounds of marijuana and god knows what else in my HOUSE. I tolerated the Narc smoking it. I had teenaged children in the house, who he was SHARING IT WITH (unbeknownst to me). All I cared about was him staying mellow and silly and harmless when he was high. I could have lost my nursing liscence, or maybe even popped positive on a drug or hair test. My own children were smoking it at 16 and 13 years old :( Good god. So if you are a criminal, I am in prison for life. Between your wish for love, and perhaps a sense that you don't deserve 100% of a man, and his insidious brainwashing and manipulation . . . your "crime" needs to be put in it's proper context. In the great scheme of things, affairs with married men suck, but are they greater crimes than mine? You are a good and ethical person ensnared by a Narc and perhaps a limited sense of your WORTHINESS. That's all.

#14 Dec 19 - 2PM (Reply to #25)

Deidre99

Please know...I know. I

Please know...I know. I truly wasn't trying to judge you, with any moral compass. What I'm hopeful of relaying is that if we could fast forward through scenarios...we would stay out of so many of them. lol Married people dating, it's just one of those scenarios that nothing good ever comes from. Because if we have to sneak around...and keep relationships a secret...it can't be starting off on a good foot. But, please know...I would never and could never and SHOULD never judge you. {{hugs}} I hope we all make good choices with who we get involved with, for 2011.

#15 Dec 19 - 2PM (Reply to #27)

StillHurting

Deidre

I didn't think you were judging me. It is a horrible thing that I did, but worse for him that he did it. So I just wanted people to know that it goes without saying it was a huge mistake on my part. All I can say to anyone thinking of getting involved with a married person is: JUST SAY NO!!!

#16 Dec 19 - 2PM (Reply to #28)

Deidre99

You know what, this is a

You know what, this is a powerful remark. So true!! Because the bottom line is...narcs come in all shapes, sizes, and packages. They fool us into believing things we might not normally believe. At the end of it all..we ALL are left holding the bag, and wondering. It's strange, stillhurting, but on some level...regardless of yours and my scenarios...the narcs left us hurt and dismantled...JUST THE SAME. That's probably the greatest lesson to take away from any stories here. I'm making chicken soup. Not feeling well today...and wish I could share some with you all. It just tends to make everything better. lol Have a good week...

#17 Dec 19 - 2PM (Reply to #26)

StillHurting

Deidre

#18 Dec 19 - 2PM (Reply to #20)

MsVulcan500

Why we are Here

Everyone here has been duped by a narc. Everyone here has been lied to by a narc. Everyone here has believed what the narc told us. Everyone here admits to ignoring red flags. So whether the narc was married, in a committed relationship, or just single and free, the issue is about us, the wonderful people who were taken advantage of by these bottom dwellers. My narc was not married, but had he been, I can't say I wouldn't have believed his lies and left right away. They are very good at spinning their story. They will say and do whatever they need to get you as supply. So the issue is not whether the narc was married or not, it is how they all take advantage of others. And that is all they do. They use EVERYONE who comes in contact with them. And if they determine that that person is of no use to them, that person no longer exists to them. Period. I totally agree with Briseis that we all deserve to be with someone who is 100% committed to us! And we should be unwilling to accept anything less.

#19 Dec 19 - 2PM (Reply to #23)

Deidre99

I see the married thing

I see the married thing differently. Married people shouldn't 'date.' That's why they are married. Doesn't matter what story they spin. They shouldn't be dating. It's not up to us to determine if the story is true or not. If someone has a horrible marriage, getting involved with that person on so many levels, will be a bad thing. When people divorce, they typically need time before starting something new. Normal people anyways. Narcs just want what they want. To that, I agree. But, if we look at what we should avoid in general. I'd say married people are off limits. No matter how charming, convincing, sexy, whatever they may be to us...they need to be off limits, because of what Briseis said, and also because if he will do it with you, he'll do it TO you. Even if the married man leaves his wife. That's not a victory. That only shows you're dating a guy who breaks vows...promises, and doesn't care about his family. Not a victory, if you're the woman dating such a man.

#20 Dec 19 - 2PM (Reply to #21)

Briseis

Hell, my exNarc was still

Hell, my exNarc was still married to his REAL wife the whole time we were together!! Our marriage was legally null and void. Talk about playing second fiddle. He got all the bacon he wanted and got the pig on an IOU :P

#21 Dec 19 - 2PM (Reply to #22)

Deidre99

LOL I wonder if any of these

LOL I wonder if any of these men ever change. If they 'can' change.

#22 Dec 19 - 2PM (Reply to #19)

Deidre99

Yes. I agree. That is what I

Yes. I agree. That is what I am hopeful, my post about dating married people, got across. I'm not judging anyone...for I have made too many mistakes to name here. But, it's more of a warning, if you will...that dating a married person, will only cause you heartache. Largely, because as time goes on...you will play second fiddle. I want to be the star of my relationship. Not an 'extra.' lol

#23 Dec 19 - 1PM

Deidre99

I'm sorry you're hurting.

I'm sorry you're hurting. But, married men shouldn't be 'dating.' Right? And there is an old saying. If he would do it with you, he will do it to you. End this lie. That's all it's been. Dating a married man, narc or not...will never end well. Because he should never have been dating you to begin with. I'm sure he told you how horrible his wife is...how he loves you...how she could never make him as happy as you. LIES. My sister dated a married man once upon a time...and it ended horribly. He left his wife for her, and then some time later, cheated on my sister. Not sure if he was a narc, possibly. But, truthfully...dating married men. You are better than this. You deserve to star in the movie, not costar. And I feel badly for his wife, too. Please end communication. Because when you do...you will see that dating him to begin with, was the problem. Not so much that he treated you badly, in the end. I hope I don't offend. Not my intent. But, imagine if you were the wife. I'm sure he lies to her...lies to you. That's what happens. And in the end, you will never fully know truth. God bless you, and may you find happiness with someone new and wonderful, in the new year.

#24 Dec 19 - 12PM

gettinbetter

stillhurting

you have to get the to the stage when you realize that was in fact a lie. In my opinion you have to go thru that before you can move on. I am still in this stage I think im nearing the end of it but I have been in this stage for months. If you dont come to the realizatin that he had no feelings and it was a lie then you will open yourself up to the possibility of him doing this to you again possibly years from now which is what happened in my case

#25 Dec 19 - 1PM (Reply to #10)

StillHurting

I am not so sure that it was a lie....

I think it all started off well and with good intentions, and I think when it got really really serious he realized he is not leaving his family. Maybe he thought a relationship with another woman would make up for the mess at home - he could stay there but have a girlfriend. He told me at the onset that he would not be leaving her, and they lived like roommates and were not romantic. A few other people who knew nothing of our relationship had told me the same thing. He could have handled it better than just sort of backing off without explanation, but I don't think he is that type. He seems more the type that does not confront anyone, and I have seen that behavior from him in other situations. I have to get to the point where I am 100% certain and sure that there will never again be anything romantic, and I am on that path. I can not do it anymore or wait around anymore. I am so upset with myself for wasting all this time. Last night, I was on the phone with a friend for an hour, and I realized, after I hung up, I talked about "him" and "this situation" for the whole time! I don't know how anyone can even stand listening to this any longer...talking about this guy for years, people hearing my crying hysterically over his behavior, and it did no good what so ever! ;-(

#26 Dec 19 - 1PM (Reply to #12)

Deidre99

Dating a married man...never

Dating a married man...never ever will that start with good intentions. I know that's hard to hear. But, it's true. Married men/women shouldn't be dating others. If they are that miserable, they should divorce...and then date down the road. Many times, what happens...IF a married man leaves his wife for the OW...is...the OW who becomes the main character now, finds out that she can't trust him. He's not all who she thought. Affairs often happen in a vacuum. When that vacuum is exposed to reality...and the daily ups and downs of life come into play...and the new woman realizes that she doesn't want to deal with mama drama...and has guilt because she feels she was part of destroying a family...all of those things add up to a recipe for disaster. Dating married people...never starts with good intentions. It starts with lies. The married man must lie to his wife to see his lover, and the lover must keep everything secret. Is that ever going to amount to anything good? I am sorry for anyone's pain here who tangled with a married man, but if you are with a married man now...please end it. For yourself. For her. For the kids, if there are any. It's kind of hard to say a man is being selfish, when you're participating in the selfishness along with him. And all married men who do this? Have 'bad' wives. I've heard it myself, when married men have come onto me in my life. I'm sure there are some who have bad marriages. Then divorce...and get out. Don't cheat.

#27 Dec 19 - 1PM (Reply to #11)

helldweller

Still Hurting

This is problematic. I find myself flipping back and forth constantly between: "He never loved me. He never cared" and "he meant well and just couldn't do it." I honestly just don't know. I find myself spending so much time on the second explanation: "Well, he had this other girlfriend for twenty years; he was afraid to leave or didn't know how." or " He was pusuing the other woman from California and had already started dating me when she finally agreed to go out with him so he didn't know what to do or who to choose." or "he didn't want to hurt any of us, so he just didn't say anything" or, as he claimed, "Eric (the foster kid) loved the other women and I couldn't leave them and remove them from his life." Yuck. You know that Occam's razor thing? That the simplest explanation is usually the right one? I think they are just empty asses. I think a lot of us have spent our lives giving people the benefit of the doubt, but you know what? Most people don't do that. They may give a second chance at best. Beyond that, most people just don't give it the time or interest. We are exceptionally nice, exceptonally understanding, exceptionally forgiving, exceptionally patient, exceptionally kind.

#28 Dec 19 - 12PM

imabloke

Hi...

I know how you feel.. i too want some sort of closure but i have accepted the fact that i won't get it. She (my ex) is wired differently... these people just don't feel empathy. What they do – they think, everyone else does.. so its ok to lie, its ok to cheat, cos if i'm cheating then the relationship (if you can call it that) wasn't right. It like dealing with the emotions of 7 yr old. BUT not all people are like this and not all blokes are like it either. Most of the blokes i know are honest, genuine guys but i do know some shits and i stay away from them. I know this may seem all a bit obvious but sometimes we need some affirmation. Even me. Hope this helps.

#29 Dec 19 - 11AM

helldweller

StillHurting

Jesus. The TIMES I asked him what was going on, what the problem was, where things were going, why he was so distant, did he want to break up, was he scared, did he change his mind, was there someone else? Nothing. And then, after finding out about not one but FOUR other women, do you think the guy would just say, "I don't know why I do it. I'm sorry." or anything? Nope. All he said was, "Honey, just love me. Say something nice." If I could have had two minutes of honest, coherent dialogue with the man --just two minutes--I would have gone on happily to live my life. But he made sure that wouldn't happen. It's freaking M A D D E N I N G.

#30 Dec 19 - 11AM (Reply to #2)

StillHurting

I don't know why people can't just speak the truth

What is so bad about saying I am sorry I hurt you, you were great to me. I can't do this any more. I made a mistake. I should not have cheated on my wife. I am sorry I dragged you into my problems. This makes no sense to me, and I guess most of you feel the same way. I know I did nothing, and I am a quality person. He loved me so much. He appreciated everything so much. We could not go a day without speaking, or more than a few hours. How does a person just not feel anything and let that all go? The only conclusion that makes sense to me is it wasn't authentic to begin with at all. If all the stuff he said to me was true he could not be human and act this way now. It is confusing and sad. Then, I don't even want to think it was not authentic because that is really painful. Maybe I will never know, and that is not great either.

#31 Dec 19 - 11AM (Reply to #3)

helldweller

Still Hurting

It IS so impossible to swallow that they can just let it all go. I mean, I thought we were going to be together forever. We were together for four years! We have kids that were involved with each other, family and friends involved with each other. How can he just stop talking? Just walk away? I even said to him, "I understand that you are embarrassed because I found out about her, but we need to talk about this." And he just said, "It's not my fault. You don't love me." And that was that. Over. Done. Silence and gone. I would give my right arm (and I'm right handed LOL) to just hear him say, "You were good to me. I screwed up. I'm sorry." Or even, "I'm nuts" or "I love women" or "I need lots of girlfriends" or ANYTHING that wasn't a lie.

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